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Post by soxcentral on Feb 28, 2016 9:54:16 GMT -5
Calories are measures of heat. Fat is fuel stored by the body for future burning. You can call it BS if you wish but if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight. We're talking about a professional athlete here. He signed a big contract, had a negative WAR year and then didn't have the pride or desire to try to do something about it. It's not a question of how good he can be with or without fat, the question is would losing the fat make him better. I don't see anyone making a case that he's a better athlete because of the fat, I only see people making a case that he can overcome the fat. I hope he gets booed for not caring enough to lose the fat, not for performance. He deserves it. Calories in/calories out is true in a lab setting, but the human body has hormonal responses that make that simple equation far, far more complex. The most successful weight loss programs now are focusing on toxicity and its effects on fat storage. As simply as I can put it, if your body has high levels of toxins (which almost all Americans have high levels of due to food, water and air quality) you need more fat to 'spread out' the poisons inside you. So when someone who is in this state tries to lose weight they feel terrible, perform terrible, and their body craves weight gain to keep from poisoning itself. So you eat more and get even fatter. How many people who crash diet end up gaining more weight in the long run? Pretty much everyone. Pablo lost 42 lbs for the 2014 season, he sucked, then he gained too much weight in 2015, and he sucked even more. This guy didn't need to come in looking like a supermodel, he needed to drop a few pounds and regain his athleticism as if it were 2012-2013 when he looked like this: Until you see him play, how can you say he didn't have the pride or desire to get better? He wasn't exactly thin back in his best days.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 9:55:01 GMT -5
We did that, last year, the entire year. He stunk and he hasn't done anything significant to change that. After a negative WAR year, one (at least me), would assume he would attempt to do something about that. He looks fatter than ever. I'm not talking about starving himself to the point that he looks like Buchholz, I'm talking about reducing that mammoth spare tire. There's no way I'm going to be convinced that that much fat is a plus unless we're talking about sumo wrestling. LOL, he gives pandas a bad name. Sandoval looked last year the same as he looked for most of his career. And he looks the same this year. So it's possible, even likely, that how he looks isn't nearly as predictive of performance as you think. I'm reserving judgement until the season starts. If he repeats last year's performance, it's an issue. But as to whether that issue is weight or not, I'm reserving my conclusions. It's not a performance issue, look at the picture, it's a dedication issue. After last year's performance this picture tells me everything I need to know.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 10:12:06 GMT -5
A question for all of the supporters here. What in his opening day statement that nobody told him to lose any weight tells you that he even tried ?
ADD: The other view of the previously mentioned 42 pound weight loss is that this is an athlete that lost 42 pounds in his walk year, signed a large contract and is now looking like he's mailing in the rest of his career.
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Post by jmei on Feb 28, 2016 10:16:31 GMT -5
It's not a performance issue, look at the picture, it's a dedication issue. After last year's performance this picture tells me everything I need to know. You're again assuming (a) that he would be a better player if he lost weight and (b) that the reason he hasn't lost weight is because he hasn't put in the effort. You need to justify those assumptions, and you haven't done so beyond just repeated asserting that they're true.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 10:33:32 GMT -5
It's not a performance issue, look at the picture, it's a dedication issue. After last year's performance this picture tells me everything I need to know. You're again assuming (a) that he would be a better player if he lost weight and (b) that the reason he hasn't lost weight is because he hasn't put in the effort. You need to justify those assumptions, and you haven't done so beyond just repeated asserting that they're true. If it looks like dung, feels like dung, smells like dung and tastes like dung, it's probably dung. It might not be but, it probably is.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 28, 2016 11:03:11 GMT -5
It's not a performance issue, look at the picture, it's a dedication issue. After last year's performance this picture tells me everything I need to know. You're again assuming (a) that he would be a better player if he lost weight and (b) that the reason he hasn't lost weight is because he hasn't put in the effort. You need to justify those assumptions, and you haven't done so beyond just repeated asserting that they're true. I assume that if he lost weight, he'd be trying to become a better player and maybe lessen the aging curve. He did say that he didn't even step on a scale. Does anyone seriously believe he's going to have a long career at this weight? The people who support him weighing this much are making a lot of assumptions also. The argument when signing him is that he hasn't been in decline since age 24. After last season it looks more and more like he did. I'll be surprised if he isn't basically forced to retire before the end of this contract.
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 28, 2016 12:39:05 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's a ton of support here for him. It's more a hope that people would wait to see how he plays first before demonizing him for not coming back with a six-pack.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 12:58:13 GMT -5
Methinks old PT was right, there's one born every minute.
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Post by ray88h66 on Feb 28, 2016 13:32:10 GMT -5
Not interested in the Panda weight debate. But on effort he shouldn't be lumped in with Hanley. We know Hanley didn't take any extra work in left until August last year. He's been fined, benched, or suspended at every level for lack of effort. Not sure what Panda does or doesn't do, but Hanley has a record we all know. I'm as disappointed as everyone else in both players performance last year. Hope they both do better in 2016, we are stuck with them. The Dodgers aren't bailing the Sox out again.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 28, 2016 13:50:43 GMT -5
A question for all of the supporters here. What in his opening day statement that nobody told him to lose any weight tells you that he even tried ?Not the first time an athlete has lied to a beat reporter. I don't pretend to know how hard Sandoval did or didn't try in the offseason, and I don't care to judge the man's character.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 13:57:05 GMT -5
Agreed that we shouldn't lump them together but I wouldn't characterize Hanley as not putting in effort. He came to camp last year pretty jacked and came to camp this year toned down considerably. Those take considerable effort. In Hanley's case, it appears to be more of a need to spread the effort over a variety of activities.
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Post by ray88h66 on Feb 28, 2016 14:05:55 GMT -5
Agreed that we shouldn't lump them together but I wouldn't characterize Hanley as not putting in effort. He came to camp last year pretty jacked and came to camp this year toned down considerably. Those take considerable effort. In Hanley's case, it appears to be more of a need to spread the effort over a variety of activities. Agree.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 28, 2016 14:59:05 GMT -5
You're again assuming (a) that he would be a better player if he lost weight and (b) that the reason he hasn't lost weight is because he hasn't put in the effort. You need to justify those assumptions, and you haven't done so beyond just repeated asserting that they're true. If it looks like dung, feels like dung, smells like dung and tastes like dung, it's probably dung. It might not be but, it probably is. I'm with you Phil......Res ipsa loquitur...Didn't Henry also say that he was disappointed?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 15:08:56 GMT -5
If it looks like dung, feels like dung, smells like dung and tastes like dung, it's probably dung. It might not be but, it probably is. I'm with you Phil......Res ipsa loquitur...Didn't Henry also say that he was disappointed? Actually, I believe the opposite. If I remember correctly it was Henry that said his body fat was 17%. There's no way it's 17%. Damage control ?
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Post by ray88h66 on Feb 28, 2016 15:18:20 GMT -5
I respect most of the long time posters like Phil, Sarasota, and jimed, that question Panda. But he could be trying and failing. We don't know.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
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Post by alnipper on Feb 28, 2016 15:30:13 GMT -5
Can we add Allen Craig to this conversation? He is way overpaid too. =)
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 28, 2016 15:51:20 GMT -5
Hanley looks good so far at first base. I'm excited-
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Feb 28, 2016 17:02:49 GMT -5
Seldom discussed here is the possibility that Hanley could be an above average defensive 1B. He must have the hands and the diving for ball moves down and only has to adapt to a different angle. Range is way less important at first and he certainly has a more than adequate arm for the position. He could be as good as Napoli and maybe better in some ways if he takes to the change and works at little at. It's a lot more natural shift for him than LF in Fenway was.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 28, 2016 18:29:20 GMT -5
Seldom discussed here is the possibility that Hanley could be an above average defensive 1B. He must have the hands and the diving for ball moves down and only has to adapt to a different angle. Range is way less important at first and he certainly has a more than adequate arm for the position. He could be as good as Napoli and maybe better in some ways if he takes to the change and works at little at. It's a lot more natural shift for him than LF in Fenway was. I hope that's the case. I'm impressed with the video I just saw out of Hanley. Can't wait to see him in game action, haven't been this tuned into a spring training story like this in forever. His glove is what is going to get him a starting spot or a ride to the bench, obviously he would be more useful in the every day starting lineup. Keeping my fingers crossed on this one.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 28, 2016 20:31:10 GMT -5
You're again assuming (a) that he would be a better player if he lost weight and (b) that the reason he hasn't lost weight is because he hasn't put in the effort. You need to justify those assumptions, and you haven't done so beyond just repeated asserting that they're true. If it looks like dung, feels like dung, smells like dung and tastes like dung, it's probably dung. It might not be but, it probably is. Mind boggling that you don't get the fact for some people losing weight and losing belly isn't so easy as it for others. Maybe he made the effort, maybe he didn't. But if you want me to believe he's lazy and hasn't put in the effort, you have to provide some evidence. His inability to lose weight when you think he needs to (and jmei pointed out that maybe it's not even best for him to lose weight) is NOT evidence. Most overweight people are not overweight because they lack self control and overeat. Most overweight people overeat because they are overweight and their bodies need more energy. Don't pretend your reality is the same as everyone else's.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 28, 2016 22:30:06 GMT -5
If it looks like dung, feels like dung, smells like dung and tastes like dung, it's probably dung. It might not be but, it probably is. Mind boggling that you don't get the fact for some people losing weight and losing belly isn't so easy as it for others. Maybe he made the effort, maybe he didn't. But if you want me to believe he's lazy and hasn't put in the effort, you have to provide some evidence. His inability to lose weight when you think he needs to (and jmei pointed out that maybe it's not even best for him to lose weight) is NOT evidence. Most overweight people are not overweight because they lack self control and overeat. Most overweight people overeat because they are overweight and their bodies need more energy. Don't pretend your reality is the same as everyone else's. Easier or more difficult yes, I get that. Out of question for a professional athlete, no I'm not buying it. If you want to buy it, that's your option but keep in mind that people are posting that he lost 42 pounds two years ago so I don't see how you can possibly think he worked at it. Especially in light of the fact that he stated himself that nobody told him to lose weight (which would be a pretty poor excuse anyways) and that he didn't even step on a scale during the offseason. Don't pretend that your fantasy world should be the norm.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 28, 2016 22:38:30 GMT -5
Almost anyone can lose weight, keeping it off is the hard part.
It's not my fantasy world it's called science - and evidence. But whatever. You have no idea what he's tried or not tried or how hard he's work, but have projected your feelings of how easily it should be to lose the weight to assume how hard he hasn't worked in the offseason. If I had any evidence he didn't make the effort, I'd agree. But I haven't seen any. I sure wouldn't want you on a jury.
Anyway, I'm done banging my head on the wall. Agree to disagree.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 28, 2016 23:01:32 GMT -5
Calories are measures of heat. Fat is fuel stored by the body for future burning. You can call it BS if you wish but if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight. We're talking about a professional athlete here. He signed a big contract, had a negative WAR year and then didn't have the pride or desire to try to do something about it. It's not a question of how good he can be with or without fat, the question is would losing the fat make him better. I don't see anyone making a case that he's a better athlete because of the fat, I only see people making a case that he can overcome the fat. I hope he gets booed for not caring enough to lose the fat, not for performance. He deserves it. Calories in/calories out is true in a lab setting, but the human body has hormonal responses that make that simple equation far, far more complex. The most successful weight loss programs now are focusing on toxicity and its effects on fat storage. As simply as I can put it, if your body has high levels of toxins (which almost all Americans have high levels of due to food, water and air quality) you need more fat to 'spread out' the poisons inside you. So when someone who is in this state tries to lose weight they feel terrible, perform terrible, and their body craves weight gain to keep from poisoning itself. So you eat more and get even fatter. How many people who crash diet end up gaining more weight in the long run? Pretty much everyone. Pablo lost 42 lbs for the 2014 season, he sucked, then he gained too much weight in 2015, and he sucked even more. This guy didn't need to come in looking like a supermodel, he needed to drop a few pounds and regain his athleticism as if it were 2012-2013 when he looked like this: Until you see him play, how can you say he didn't have the pride or desire to get better? He wasn't exactly thin back in his best days. Errr...I'm pretty certain there's not one iota of verifiable, peer-reviewed scientific research to back the "toxicity" theory you're espousing, in terms of what signals the body to deposit fat and gain weight. However, I do agree pretty much 100% with the rest of what you said.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 29, 2016 0:01:14 GMT -5
Almost anyone can lose weight, keeping it off is the hard part. It's not my fantasy world it's called science - and evidence. But whatever. You have no idea what he's tried or not tried or how hard he's work, but have projected your feelings of how easily it should be to lose the weight to assume how hard he hasn't worked in the offseason. If I had any evidence he didn't make the effort, I'd agree. But I haven't seen any. I sure wouldn't want you on a jury. Anyway, I'm done banging my head on the wall. Agree to disagree. Yeah, I would have voted for conviction of OJ. Boo-hoo, poor Pablo. He looks a lot better when your wearing blinders. We're going to need to continue to disagree but extrapolating norms for society to professional athletes or extrapolating studies for some fat to those that are flat out obese is not science or facts, it's presenting a case tailored to suit your opinion.
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Post by costpet on Feb 29, 2016 7:25:01 GMT -5
I put the over/under line today at 1 1/2 on the number of errors Hanley makes today at 1B.
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