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Satisfied with offseason so far?
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Post by dcri on Jan 2, 2013 19:13:25 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Jan 2, 2013 20:02:23 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 2, 2013 20:34:47 GMT -5
It's always good to remember that Olney and the others writing on a deadline have to churn for a living. That's what they do. They have to come up with a hook every piece, and then sell it to drag in the eyeballs. It's much easier for someone like Speier to write longer thoughtful pieces where he's given both the time and the leeway to do it, and he also has a more limited scope to deal with. I understand Olney's angle, but it's easy enough to discount given the context. And few fans remember the hot stove chatter from years back, I know I usually don't, so thanks for digging up the link. Nice to have some perspective.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 2, 2013 21:53:47 GMT -5
All this is true. It's merely Buster's opinion, just like it would be mine or yours.
However, most of us, as Sox fans, tend to look at things with a Sox-centered view. Buster doesn't have that mentality.
Where Alex Speier, who is a fine writer, can focus on the Sox and pick out different areas to analyze, Buster is more of a national writer with no particular team specialty.
I really don't see that he said anything outrageous or unreasonable.
He doesn't think the Sox have a top ten infield. Well, with Mauro Gomez at this minute projecting as our 1b, I would agree. I think that equation could change if Napoli is reasonably healthy and gets his signing finalized. Also Stephen Drew is a question mark at this point.
And I wouldn't disagree that the Sox outfield would be evaluated in the lower 1/3 of the major leagues. It is relatively weak. Only Ellsbury has the potential to be a standout, and with him, you're not quite sure which Ellsbury you'll get. It's quite possible that Victorino cannot handle righties and is no more than a #4 OF at this point and that LF is a big question mark. It's not like the Sox have an OF of Williams/Piersall/Jensen or Yaz/Smith/Tony C or Rice/Lynn/Evans or Manny/Damon/Nixon anymore.
I guess you could make similar comments about the World Champion Giants. However they had one helluva pitching staff and catcher to help offset their weaknesses, which I don't think you can quite say about the Sox (I will say they have the best DH in the league, though!).
But again, this is all opinion, and that's why they play the games.
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Post by bighead on Jan 3, 2013 12:19:42 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 3, 2013 12:38:10 GMT -5
It's always good to remember that Olney and the others writing on a deadline have to churn for a living. That's what they do. They have to come up with a hook every piece, and then sell it to drag in the eyeballs...
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Post by ramireja on Jan 3, 2013 13:03:43 GMT -5
He also had the Brewers at #2 and somehow managed to leave the Dodgers out of the conversation (which actually is the top 13 teams once you include his honorable mentions). I mean, we know that a great time on paper doesn't always produce but please....I'm sure they'll manage to get some contributions out of Kemp, Ethier, A-Gon, Hanley, Crawford, etc.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 3, 2013 14:06:58 GMT -5
Thats even more questionable than the one earlier.
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Post by dcri on Jan 4, 2013 4:43:33 GMT -5
But Olney's lineup listing presumed Napoli signed and playing, giving the Sox a southpaw killing lineup. Remember, however, they were one of the top scoring teams this past season.
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Post by buffs4444 on Jan 4, 2013 7:49:17 GMT -5
Agreed with the potential of the Sox lineup, though one could say the same about the Dodger lineup. As good as the Sox appear to match up vs LHP, the Dodgers appear to be equally as good vs RHP. While the Sox did score substantially more runs than the Dodgers last year, those stats reflect the presence of Gonzalez in Boston rather than LAD for 80% of the season. In the end both should be very good lineups, I would agree with the others though that the Dodgers not being on that list is an omission.
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Post by elguapo on Jan 4, 2013 9:36:09 GMT -5
The offseason has been fine so far, assuming Napoli signs and isn't about to collapse into a heap of jelly. (I would have preferred Youk, or Youk + Chavez.)
I could have done without:
* Gomes signing * Hanrahan trade
Sands/Nava in LF, Melancon in the 'pen, $12M to use for late offseason bargains or mid-season pickups.
But I like the commitment to keeping top prospects, absent a favorable trade opportunity.
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Post by jmei on Jan 4, 2013 10:32:18 GMT -5
Agreed with the potential of the Sox lineup, though one could say the same about the Dodger lineup. As good as the Sox appear to match up vs LHP, the Dodgers appear to be equally as good vs RHP. While the Sox did score substantially more runs than the Dodgers last year, those stats reflect the presence of Gonzalez in Boston rather than LAD for 80% of the season. In the end both should be very good lineups, I would agree with the others though that the Dodgers not being on that list is an omission. Adrian Gonzalez hit .300/.343/.469 for Boston last year-- hardly elite production. Remember that despite Adrian's slump, Ellsbury's injury (and his terrible replacements-- remember Marlon Byrd?), Crawford's absence, etc., the Red Sox were among the league leaders in runs scored through July, with only Ortiz and maybe Middlebrooks and Ross playing unsustainably well. With Napoli signed and assuming few significant injuries, I have no doubt that the 2013 Red Sox will again rank in the top 3-5 in runs scored.
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Post by dcri on Jan 4, 2013 10:37:43 GMT -5
I think jmei is right. So, it all will depend on how many runs the pitchers allow. If the Sox are in the top five in RA, it won't matter a whole lot how many they score.
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Post by hammerhead on Jan 4, 2013 11:14:48 GMT -5
It just further illustrates how truely pathetic last years pitching staff was. If you take into account that the bullpen was a strength then it's glaring what needed attention in the offseason.
I hope Dempster is reallllllly good
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Post by jmei on Jan 4, 2013 11:29:39 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I looked up the three-year splits of each of the projected starters and compared them to the major league average in 2012 by position, using wRC+:
Saltalamacchia: 94 (league-average C: 95) Napoli: 134 (league-average 1B: 107) Pedroia: 124 (league-average 2B: 88) Middlebrooks: 121 (league-average 3B: 100) Drew: 99 (league-average SS: 86) Gomes: 111 (league-average LF: 103) Nava: 100 (league-average LF: 103) Ellsbury: 121 (league-average CF: 101) Victorino: 109 (league-average RF: 104) Ortiz: 150 (league-average DH: 114)
Even assuming age-related decline for Napoli, Victorino, and Ortiz, and some regression for Middlebrooks, this should be a very, very good lineup.
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Post by buffs4444 on Jan 4, 2013 16:44:19 GMT -5
Adrian Gonzalez hit .300/.343/.469 for Boston last year-- hardly elite production. Remember that despite Adrian's slump, Ellsbury's injury (and his terrible replacements-- remember Marlon Byrd?), Crawford's absence, etc., the Red Sox were among the league leaders in runs scored through July, with only Ortiz and maybe Middlebrooks and Ross playing unsustainably well. With Napoli signed and assuming few significant injuries, I have no doubt that the 2013 Red Sox will again rank in the top 3-5 in runs scored. The reference to Gonzalez was a reply to a statement that the Sox were one of the top scoring teams in the league; Gonzo was the leading RBI producer on the team. That's all. Also, using the 3 year average wRC pulls in a lot of good data that may not (or may, hopefully) properly evaluate each player. Lot of other factors at play with this group such as inexperience (Middlebrooks), over-experience (Ortiz), players coming off down years (Napoli, Drew, Ellsbury), and players who honestly just may not be here (Salty). I honestly hope every player here meets/exceeds their numbers, it's a tough call to bank on that though. Lot more questions with this group right now, but again I hope you're spot on and they all exceed those numbers over a full-and-healthy year. cheers, Lou
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Post by jmei on Feb 12, 2013 10:31:00 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 12, 2013 13:53:04 GMT -5
That's a really, REALLY good piece. Paints a picture of this being very much Ben Cherington's team now after the chaos of last year ... Cherington seems like a very process-oriented guy, someone who wants decision-making to happen within a defined organizational process following explicit strategic philosophies. In my experience, unless it's done really, really well, that doesn't necessarily result in constant sparks of creativity in organizations, but imo it's an excellent approach for an organization with the built-in power of the Boston Red Sox.
And how anyone ever thought Bobby Valentine would be a good fit with that is beyond me.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 13, 2013 1:25:01 GMT -5
The Sox are very lucky to have Speier writing about them. He's a cut above the others, both in the depth of his analysis, and the healthy scepticism he brings to his work. He isn't just a tout which is too often what you find once a writer gets comfortable. Cherrington trusts him enough to open up.
We weren't the only ones who thought the season tailed off disastrously, but there was a plan it seems. I agree with thetaoist that strategy - and the tactics they spawn - don't guarantee much by themselves without a creative spark. That usually comes from letting your "team" play to each individual's strengths once you've got it in place, without interference. We'll see how that goes.
At the very least, this comes across as if someone's actually driving the train, that it isn't just a runaway. That's a good thing.
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Post by remember04 on Feb 13, 2013 8:22:28 GMT -5
The Sox are very lucky to have Speier writing about them. He's a cut above the others, both in the depth of his analysis, and the healthy scepticism he brings to his work. He isn't just a tout which is too often what you find once a writer gets comfortable. Cherrington trusts him enough to open up. We weren't the only ones who thought the season tailed off disastrously, but there was a plan it seems. I agree with thetaoist that strategy - and the tactics they spawn - don't guarantee much by themselves without a creative spark. That usually comes from letting your "team" play to each individual's strengths once you've got it in place, without interference. We'll see how that goes. At the very least, this comes across as if someone's actually driving the train, that it isn't just a runaway. That's a good thing. Okay so maybe I'm late on this but congrats on the promotion. Again I think it was a wise choice. And on a related note has anybody noticed the curse of the moderator struck again? Come back to us Yirm, we miss you.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 13, 2013 11:26:09 GMT -5
Thanks, and thanks to the staff for asking.
I expected Yirm would show up when the board changed over. At first , I thought that he might have changed his monicker, but I guess he took a leave of absence. Hope that avatar shows up again sometime.
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Post by ray88h66 on Feb 13, 2013 17:39:32 GMT -5
Good for you Norm. I think it's a positive to have someone on staff that remembers listening to the games on a transistor radio when the sox had no chance of winning. I think you have the right temperment for the job. Peace from the northeast.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 13, 2013 20:34:06 GMT -5
No question this is a well researched and well-written piece. In keeping with the topic I think the Sox may be on the cusp of another addition. I say this not only from the tenor of this article but recalling a reported comment from Farrell within the past few days that suggested something might be close.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 13, 2013 20:40:50 GMT -5
Speier's obviously being cultivated by the FO. That has risks as well as rewards of course. That said, it's good to get a look inside the sausage making factory.
And thank you ray. I bronzed that transistor radio and I believe I have it somewhere...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 13, 2013 20:42:27 GMT -5
[quote author=sarasoxer board=general thread=326 post=10964 time=1360805646
No question this is a well researched and well-written piece. In keeping with the topic I think the Sox may be on the cusp of another addition. I say this not only from the tenor of this article but recalling a reported comment from Farrell within the past few days that suggested something might be close.[/quote]
My guess is that new addition might be Mike Carp. He could be somebody that the Sox could use.
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