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4/11-4/13 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 11, 2016 16:46:32 GMT -5
... Lovullo time is nearly upon us. Should we start the clock on him or wait until he's hired first?
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,321
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Post by radiohix on Apr 11, 2016 16:56:05 GMT -5
Too soon to get rid of Farrell, or are we gonna wait till he ruins the season? WTF? You need to read Wcp3 comments with a grain of salt, well not the ones regarding knuckleballers, it's his style
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Post by MLBDreams on Apr 11, 2016 17:03:29 GMT -5
It's too bad that David Price & Craig Kimbrel didn't pitched well at home debut. I don't know the reason since I watched it from gameday at work. Both pitched too wild, out of strike zone and already too many pitches. It's gave up walks that hurt them the most. Trumbo & Davis can mash fastball like that. For Kimbrel, he cannot afford to give up walks since AL hitters can work on counts. He need to get different mindset due to different league & tough AL line ups. I hope Craig learned his lesson.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 11, 2016 17:11:49 GMT -5
... For Kimbrel, he cannot afford to give up walks since AL hitters can work on counts. He need to get different mindset due to different league & tough AL line ups. I hope Craig learned his lesson. FYI: In 2015 AL batters saw 3.84 pitches per plate appearance. NL batters saw 3.79. Without looking, I'll attribute the difference mostly to the pitcher batting. I'll also guess there's nothing wrong with his mindset.
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Post by ramireja on Apr 11, 2016 17:16:21 GMT -5
It may be too early to stress over batting averages and pitching performances, but it's never too early to realize when managerial decisions contribute to losses. Farrell has to be on a short leash, as losses matter no less in the first week of the season than in the midst of a playoff run. There needs to be a sense of urgency present this season that was lacking last season. Totally, I can't believe he left Price pitch into the third, and then brought Kimbrel into the 9th!
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 11, 2016 17:17:51 GMT -5
^ The complaints have to do with a questionable non-challenge and he is seemingly clueless about how to use young so far.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Apr 11, 2016 17:29:57 GMT -5
It may be too early to stress over batting averages and pitching performances, but it's never too early to realize when managerial decisions contribute to losses. Farrell has to be on a short leash, as losses matter no less in the first week of the season than in the midst of a playoff run. There needs to be a sense of urgency present this season that was lacking last season. Totally, I can't believe he left Price pitch into the third, and then brought Kimbrel into the 9th! They didn't challenge Xander's beating out a throw, and Farrell pinch hit Shaw in the 6th which directly led to Young having a terrible at bat and strikeout against a righty. It's not an overreaction when those decisions led to a loss. Every loss counts.
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Post by huskies15 on Apr 11, 2016 18:33:23 GMT -5
Also he could have hit Panda for Young in that spot as well (Still had Castillo to put in LF or Holt). Farrell seems like a good guy but the way he manages a game is sub-par and in tight games its evident
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 11, 2016 18:43:35 GMT -5
Also he could have hit Panda for Young in that spot as well (Still had Castillo to put in LF or Holt). Farrell seems like a good guy but the way he manages a game is sub-par and in tight games its evident Pablo would have struck out.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2016 19:18:59 GMT -5
Today was all about a blueprint gone wrong. New ace David Price can't hold a 3 run lead and only lasts 5 innings. Elite closer Craig Kimbrel with Mariano Rivera type numbers walks 2 and gives up a long HR. Chris Young's appearance on the roster is causing more trouble than it's worth because Farrell is mismanaging. And Carson Smith is injured. So today, Dombrowski's moves didn't look too good.
Mix in that with Ortiz actually not coming thru in the clutch in the 9th and it was that kind of day.
Thankfully the season is much longer than this one game.
I'd like to think eventually Price will pitch like Price going 7 or 8 innings a clip, Buchholz will settle in as #2 and then when he gets hurt, E-Rod will become the #2, and hopefully somebody settles in behind them as a reliable #3 starter. And Kimbrel will be the dominant closer he has been all these years.
I'd like to think Farrell gets a clue and stops pinch-hitting for Shaw every chance he gets and learns that Young against a right doesn't work, and hopefully there's a reliable LH bat on the bench he can go to, not Sandoval.
Let's hope the next 156 games prove this out.
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Post by mgoetze on Apr 11, 2016 19:23:18 GMT -5
I'd like to think eventually Price will pitch like Price going 7 or 8 innings a clip, Buchholz will settle in as #2 and then when he gets hurt, E-Rod will become the #2, and hopefully somebody settles in behind them as a reliable #3 starter. And Kimbrel will be the dominant closer he has been all these years. Yeah, I could see that happening... (The reliable #3 starter is called Steven Wright, BTW. ) THAT, on the other hand, seems completely implausible.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2016 19:44:54 GMT -5
I'd like to think eventually Price will pitch like Price going 7 or 8 innings a clip, Buchholz will settle in as #2 and then when he gets hurt, E-Rod will become the #2, and hopefully somebody settles in behind them as a reliable #3 starter. And Kimbrel will be the dominant closer he has been all these years. Yeah, I could see that happening... (The reliable #3 starter is called Steven Wright, BTW. ) THAT, on the other hand, seems completely implausible. Wright's as good a bet as anybody else. Somebody needs to step forward over the course of the year whether it's Kelly, Porcello, Johnson, Owens, or Wright. I'm hoping the Sox don't have to sacrifice talent to bring in a pitcher. I could see the Sox dealing a Swihart (or Vazquez)and Owens (or Johnson) for a #2/#3 type starter at the deadline. I hope that doesn't happen. Or worse dealing one of Espinoza/Moncada/Benintendi/Devers, which I really hope doesn't happen. As far as Farrell goes, he's very frustrating. Koji could have pitched the 9th. What was his plan had the game gone to extra innings? And if you're going to pinch-hit Young for Shaw in the 6th inning, which he shouldn't, but he does, then you need to have a lefty, like Sandoval, ready to pinch-hit and play 3b, and if Sandoval can't do this role, then he shouldn't be on the roster. Period.
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Post by larrycook on Apr 11, 2016 22:24:07 GMT -5
For as bad as price was today, we can take solace in the fact that the offense came out swinging and then after price gave up the tater, they came back and got us back in the game.
Bottom line is the starting pitching era on this team is 6 plus runs per game. Not sure Farrell can win with his starters putting up such terrible numbers.
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Apr 11, 2016 23:17:00 GMT -5
Price had one bad inning. Kimbrel had a bad inning. They probably will have other bad innings during the course of the season. Nothing else can be concluded about them from today.
I wasn't enthusiastic about the Young acquisition and now I know why.
I signed up for MLB TV this year and have been able to watch most of every game so far. I like the looks of the team on the field. I was dubious about the starting pitching before the season began and still am.
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Post by mandelbro on Apr 12, 2016 9:21:40 GMT -5
Price had one bad inning. Kimbrel had a bad inning. They probably will have other bad innings during the course of the season. Nothing else can be concluded about them from today. I wasn't enthusiastic about the Young acquisition and now I know why. I signed up for MLB TV this year and have been able to watch most of every game so far. I like the looks of the team on the field. I was dubious about the starting pitching before the season began and still am. Yeah, last year Clay B. gave up like 7 runs in his first home start. Finished with a 3.30 ERA and nice peripherals. Its not like Price is doomed. If there's an offseason move to hindsight right now for me, its not giving Rich Hill more than $6M and first dibs on a rotation slot. He wanted to start - well guess what, if he gets lit up then you don't have to start him anymore. Hell just DFA him if it came to that. Low risk-high reward moves like that are what the Sox should be leveraging their financial might to make.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Apr 12, 2016 9:27:28 GMT -5
Price had one bad inning. Kimbrel had a bad inning. They probably will have other bad innings during the course of the season. Nothing else can be concluded about them from today. I wasn't enthusiastic about the Young acquisition and now I know why. I signed up for MLB TV this year and have been able to watch most of every game so far. I like the looks of the team on the field. I was dubious about the starting pitching before the season began and still am. Yeah, last year Clay B. gave up like 7 runs in his first home start. Finished with a 3.30 ERA and nice peripherals. Its not like Price is doomed. If there's an offseason move to hindsight right now for me, its not giving Rich Hill more than $6M and first dibs on a rotation slot. He wanted to start - well guess what, if he gets lit up then you don't have to start him anymore. Hell just DFA him if it came to that. Low risk-high reward moves like that are what the Sox should be leveraging their financial might to make. Like Masterson?
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Post by mandelbro on Apr 12, 2016 9:50:30 GMT -5
Yes and no. Yes, because giving a big one year deal to a guy like that made sense. The Masterson deal, from a strategy standpoint, was a good one. No, because Masterson was coming off a year in which he was a horrible pitcher, and in the midst of a velocity decline. Hill was coming off a year in which he was practically unhittable, and if humbled by his starting attempt would be a good bullpen arm, unlike Masterson who hasn't gotten a swinging strike since the Gaddafi administration. Had Masterson been a number five pitcher and not a number five billion pitcher, it would have been a good deal, and there was a lot more reason ex-ante to be bullish on Hill's range of outcomes than Masterson. Now, the Red Sox either ignored the physically obvious red flags with Masterson, or waited too long to pull the plug. But I'm not going to put that on the strategic decision to sign him. When it was obvious that he was terrible, they could have moved him to the pen or dropped him there and then. That's the point of being a wealthy club. As a strategy, "sign reclamation guy to deal with short term in exchange for higher value" should be on the laminated call sheet. And Hill was a perfect option for that approach.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 12, 2016 10:15:29 GMT -5
Given the price of starting pitching, what the hell else could the Red Sox have done in the offseason? They can't sign everyone and they would have been stupid to trade all the prospects that it would have taken to get a possible #2/likely #3 in Shelby Miller. Rich Hill more than likely was never coming back even if they promised him a spot because he's not stupid and saw how many guys he'd be competing with.
I guess they could have also signed Greinke, but everyone would be calling him a bust already with his 9.90 ERA in two starts so the season would already be over anyway.
The solution is Vazquez. All pitchers will be better with him catching. Calm down.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Apr 12, 2016 11:05:12 GMT -5
in what was supposed to be the coronation of the off-season, today has been about as bad it can be for Price and Kimbrel And Young and Smith
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 12, 2016 11:11:09 GMT -5
The thread is... predictable. Price was very good in his first start. On a windy day in Boston, it was more difficult for both he and Kimbrel. So what? They're six games into the season, and averaging almost 6 runs/per. Rich Hill got blasted in his first start and he would have been thrown to the wolves (we do have some out here) if he'd been pitching for the Sox, just as Price is getting torn apart because it happened in his second game.
No patience, and no (baseball) vision. How about everyone be in it for the long haul?
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 12, 2016 11:44:40 GMT -5
The thread is... predictable. Price was very good in his first start. On a windy day in Boston, it was more difficult for both he and Kimbrel. So what? They're six games into the season, and averaging almost 6 runs/per. Rich Hill got blasted in his first start and he would have been thrown to the wolves (we do have some out here) if he'd been pitching for the Sox, just as Price is getting torn apart because it happened in his second game. No patience, and no (baseball) vision. How about everyone be in it for the long haul? They don't even wait for the entire game, let alone a month or the entire season. Judgements are made inning by inning, batter by batter and pitch by pitch. It's like the worst of the worst attributes of the instant gratification internet age. I'm either going to start skipping these threads or start with extreme mockery.
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Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2016 12:01:50 GMT -5
They don't even wait for the entire game, let alone a month or the entire season. Judgements are made inning by inning, batter by batter and pitch by pitch. It's like the worst of the worst attributes of the instant gratification internet age. I'm either going to start skipping these threads or start with extreme mockery. Yes, only with the advent of the internet did people start overreacting to sporting events.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,418
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Post by ianrs on Apr 12, 2016 12:09:37 GMT -5
Given the history of game threads, did you really expect patience in game threads? I think generally Red Sox fans are extremely bad about this, particularly in recent years following the abundance of World Series victories. I think its even tougher to weed through the comments now because there is a blend of both serious and mocking outrage. Also, affective responses during the game probably make results seem more important than they really are. I myself get caught up with this, even though I consider myself an information-driven, patient consumer of Red Sox baseball.
I'm pretty sure that was the first 3 run HR given up by Kimbrel...ever. Price is going to have a bad start here and there, sure. Yeah, the offense is looking great. Still, I could also go ahead and say hey, SSS for the offense. I think both positive and negative recency bias comments are to be expected in gameday threads. I still think its okay to bring up legitimate concerns/hopes while being patient. For example, John Farrell has demonstrated his incompetence fairly consistently, dating back to other seasons. A big issue is that people love confirmation bias: if they were against the Price/Kimbrel/Sandoval deals at the time, there's a big temptation to make some childlike noises and yell, "I told you so!"
Hoping for a bounceback from Buchholz tonight.
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Post by mgoetze on Apr 12, 2016 12:13:24 GMT -5
The thread is... predictable. Price was very good in his first start. On a windy day in Boston, it was more difficult for both he and Kimbrel. So what? Oh, I'm not usually one to get excited about SSS, as you surely know. But after an entire offseason of being told on this board how very special an ACE and an ELITE CLOSER are and that you absolutely have to have someone where you can rely 100% on their never doing exactly what Price and Kimbrel did in this game, well...
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 12, 2016 12:31:53 GMT -5
I have been encouraged by this team so far. They have shown a lot of determination when losing games.....I think that will bode well over the long haul.
What is frustrating is the pitching. Not because of this 6 game sample...because it seems like forever and a day since we have a had good starting pitching and bullpen work combined. I think the starters will get their act together....although it doesn't seem like we have enough in that category.
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