SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
4/11-4/13 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
|
Post by jimed14 on Apr 12, 2016 12:46:53 GMT -5
They don't even wait for the entire game, let alone a month or the entire season. Judgements are made inning by inning, batter by batter and pitch by pitch. It's like the worst of the worst attributes of the instant gratification internet age. I'm either going to start skipping these threads or start with extreme mockery. Yes, only with the advent of the internet did people start overreacting to sporting events. Well people expect a lot more now, but they weren't the ones who spent their entire lives wishing for another 1918. The advent of the internet is what expands the discussion to beyond just the people you know and talk to and I won't count talk radio. And the complainers have the loudest voices. I never talked to anyone like these people before the internet so yeah, it is my reality.
|
|
|
Post by huskies15 on Apr 12, 2016 12:52:53 GMT -5
Clay's gonna shove tonight and Bogey hits a bomb. Gameday thread peace will be upon us.
|
|
|
Post by klostrophobic on Apr 12, 2016 13:10:31 GMT -5
If the Red Sox lose tonight they'll be on a sub-70 win pace. A win puts them on 93-win pace. Basically a must-win game at this point.
A rainout puts them at 81 wins, which isn't ideal, but I'll take it for sure.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2016 13:44:40 GMT -5
Also he could have hit Panda for Young in that spot as well (Still had Castillo to put in LF or Holt). Farrell seems like a good guy but the way he manages a game is sub-par and in tight games its evident Alex Speier wrote a nice piece on this which questioned the logic/math involved in the decisions from the Young-for-Shaw substitution and the moves, or nonmoves after that. Some pretty basic probabilities that all of us were doing on the fly here that seemed to elude the brain trust on the bench: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/04/12/john-farrell-decision-making-hurt-red-sox-opener/bmEiX4fXGLRqTgpAWOKunI/story.html?event=event25If you're going to play the percentages, then remain consistent I think is part of the basic takeaway. Young for Shaw becomes tolerable/understandable if you pull Young for Panda or Castillo later on. Personally, I don't like the original move as it seemed to early to pull Shaw, who has shown some ability to hit lefties in the small sample that was last year. But it seemed absolutely nuts given Young's career vs. RHP to leave him in when they brought in the power righty. In fact, despite what Farrell said afterwards, short of a four run lead at that point it is completely indefensible given the resources he had on the bench.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2016 13:46:40 GMT -5
If the Red Sox lose tonight they'll be on a sub-70 win pace. A win puts them on 93-win pace. Basically a must-win game at this point. A rainout puts them at 81 wins, which isn't ideal, but I'll take it for sure. Upbeat hyperbole is the best hyperbole to fill your bowl, olé.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Apr 12, 2016 13:49:00 GMT -5
I wonder if they're going to ask Pablo if he'd accept a AAA assignment to get some playing time. He looks like he hasn't even started spring training yet and it's not going to get better while rotting on the bench. I'm not sure if he has options, but DFA'ing him obviously wouldn't be a problem.
He is absolutely useless right now, playing the role of 3rd 3B option. This is the source of Farrell's problem with not really knowing how to work Young into the lineup.
And on an unrelated note, I'd like to get rid of Joe Kelly and Chris Young because there are too many of them listed on fangraphs and I have not one time clicked on the right Chris Young the first time. It's quite an inconvenience.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Apr 12, 2016 13:57:26 GMT -5
Also, I'd like to defend Farrell somewhat. Compared to previous seasons, he is a baseball genius so far this year. The old Farrell would still be starting Pablo over Shaw, Pablo vs. LHP and starting Young vs. RHP. He even brought Uehara in for the 7th recently because it was the top of the order and thus higher leverage than the 8th likely would have been. He is leaps and bounds ahead of where he was. He seems to be taking a lot of direction from above. I'd still highly prefer Lovullo.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2016 14:07:29 GMT -5
Why would Sandoval accept a minor league assignment when he could instead elect free agency? He has no incentive to do so.
Sandoval also has more of a role than you think. He's effectively the backup at 3B, 1B and DH, which means he likely gets at least a start or two a week even when everyone's healthy. He's also valuable injury depth-- without him on the roster, if any of Shaw, Hanley or Ortiz get hurt, it's some combination of Marrero, Castillo, Allen Craig or Bryce Brentz getting the playing time, which are all worse options. He also should be used as a bat off the bench to pinch-hit for Young (and maybe Bradley/Castillo or Swihart/Hanigan), yesterday's game notwithstanding.
|
|
|
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 12, 2016 14:59:58 GMT -5
Why would Sandoval accept a minor league assignment when he could instead elect free agency? He has no incentive to do so. Sandoval also has more of a role than you think. He's effectively the backup at 3B, 1B and DH, which means he likely gets at least a start or two a week even when everyone's healthy. He's also valuable injury depth-- without him on the roster, if any of Shaw, Hanley or Ortiz get hurt, it's some combination of Marrero, Castillo, Allen Craig or Bryce Brentz getting the playing time, which are all worse options. He also should be used as a bat off the bench to pinch-hit for Young (and maybe Bradley/Castillo or Swihart/Hanigan), yesterday's game notwithstanding. I'm really wondering if he's going to be gaining weight riding pine. This roster is very strangely constructed currently. I'm not a huge fan of constantly PHing for our 6th hitter in the 6th/7th innings.
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 12, 2016 15:04:52 GMT -5
Why would Sandoval accept a minor league assignment when he could instead elect free agency? He has no incentive to do so. Sandoval also has more of a role than you think. He's effectively the backup at 3B, 1B and DH, which means he likely gets at least a start or two a week even when everyone's healthy. He's also valuable injury depth-- without him on the roster, if any of Shaw, Hanley or Ortiz get hurt, it's some combination of Marrero, Castillo, Allen Craig or Bryce Brentz getting the playing time, which are all worse options. He also should be used as a bat off the bench to pinch-hit for Young (and maybe Bradley/Castillo or Swihart/Hanigan), yesterday's game notwithstanding. This just sounds like Devil's advocacy. How is a negative WAR player valuable injury depth? Marrero can at least field, and it wouldn't be difficult at all to find a 1B/DH that could hit better than Pablo would.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2016 15:25:04 GMT -5
Why would Sandoval accept a minor league assignment when he could instead elect free agency? He has no incentive to do so. Sandoval also has more of a role than you think. He's effectively the backup at 3B, 1B and DH, which means he likely gets at least a start or two a week even when everyone's healthy. He's also valuable injury depth-- without him on the roster, if any of Shaw, Hanley or Ortiz get hurt, it's some combination of Marrero, Castillo, Allen Craig or Bryce Brentz getting the playing time, which are all worse options. He also should be used as a bat off the bench to pinch-hit for Young (and maybe Bradley/Castillo or Swihart/Hanigan), yesterday's game notwithstanding. This just sounds like Devil's advocacy. How is a negative WAR player valuable injury depth? Marrero can at least field, and it wouldn't be difficult at all to find a 1B/DH that could hit better than Pablo would. I disagree that Sandoval is a negative WAR player going forward, and the Red Sox front office almost certainly does as well. His offensive decline was largely BABIP-driven last year and will likely bounce back, and even if he never regains the power he showed earlier in his career, he should be around a ~100 wRC+ hitter. Even if his defense continues to be sub-par, that's a useful player and better than the next-best option in the organization or the kind of player floating around on waivers.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2016 15:39:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Apr 12, 2016 15:44:15 GMT -5
Scott Lauber @scottlauber 1h1 hour ago #RedSox vs. BAL: Betts RF, Pedroia 2B, Bogaerts SS, Ortiz DH, Ramirez 1B, Shaw 3B, Holt LF, Swihart C, Bradley CF, Buchholz
Also, Chris Young will PH in the 6th inning.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2016 15:57:09 GMT -5
Scott Lauber @scottlauber 1h1 hour ago #RedSox vs. BAL: Betts RF, Pedroia 2B, Bogaerts SS, Ortiz DH, Ramirez 1B, Shaw 3B, Holt LF, Swihart C, Bradley CF, Buchholz Also, Chris Young will PH in the 6th inning. And strike out in a key at bat against a tough righty in the 8th inning.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 12, 2016 16:14:41 GMT -5
The team sort of painted itself into a corner. They promised Young a mess of plate appearances, while emphasizing that Betts would play right field exclusively. Unless they really want to hurt themselves, they won't play him in center either, which is a position he's completely unsuited for. That doesn't leave much outside of a left-field platoon and pinch-hitting, or leaving him in against right handers which can get very ugly as we've seen.
The answer, I think, is to rotate him into right and put Betts in center every once in a while, and to let him spell Betts in right every once in another while, along with his other duties. It seems to me that they need to be flexibile as the season proceeds.
|
|
|
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 12, 2016 16:30:39 GMT -5
The team sort of painted itself into a corner. They promised Young a mess of plate appearances, while emphasizing that Betts would play right field exclusively. Unless they really want to hurt themselves, they won't play him in center either, which is a position he's completely unsuited for. That doesn't leave much outside of a left-field platoon and pinch-hitting, or leaving him in against right handers which can get very ugly as we've seen. The answer, I think, is to rotate him into right and put Betts in center every once in a while, and to let him spell Betts in right every once in another while, along with his other duties. It seems to me that they need to be flexibile as the season proceeds. Hard to be flexible when they're up against a wall. Would not be shocking if Buch, Kelly and Porcello all lost these next few games.
|
|
|
Post by klostrophobic on Apr 12, 2016 16:55:45 GMT -5
How many at-bats did they promise Chris Young? And why would they do that? His only value is as a super-strict platoon player.
Last year, 27% of plate appearances were from LHP. Over 162 games, the 6th batter in lineup on an offense like Red Sox should see ~670 PA, so hopefully they only promised him 180 PA.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Apr 12, 2016 17:01:09 GMT -5
How many at-bats did they promise Chris Young? And why would they do that? His only value is as a super-strict platoon player. I mean, why would they sign a guy who missed all of spring training without getting a contract offer from anyone for $13m and then promise him he would only have to spend 10 days in the minors no matter whether he was ready for the big leagues after those 10 days or not? Yeah, I don't understand these things either.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2016 17:05:42 GMT -5
The team sort of painted itself into a corner. They promised Young a mess of plate appearances, while emphasizing that Betts would play right field exclusively. Unless they really want to hurt themselves, they won't play him in center either, which is a position he's completely unsuited for. That doesn't leave much outside of a left-field platoon and pinch-hitting, or leaving him in against right handers which can get very ugly as we've seen. The answer, I think, is to rotate him into right and put Betts in center every once in a while, and to let him spell Betts in right every once in another while, along with his other duties. It seems to me that they need to be flexibile as the season proceeds. Hard to be flexible when they're up against a wall. Would not be shocking if Buch, Kelly and Porcello all lost these next few games. No team is "up against a wall" after six games. Would not be shocking if they all won these next games, either. I don't think it's a question of promising Young a certain number of plate appearances. I'd be surprised if they promised Young anything other than starts versus LHP. I think it's more because of the scheduling quirk that has them not playing a left-handed starting pitcher for the first two weeks of the season. It's tough to start the season with one of your veterans not seeing the field for two weeks, and so Farrell has been aggressive trying to find starts and pinch-hit opportunities for Young. I'm a big numbers guy, but if for personality/clubhouse management reasons, Farrell wants to try and find a few extra opportunities for Young, I'm not inclined to argue against it too vehemently even if it's not ideal from a platoon point of view. ADD: Young has all of 4 PAs versus a RHP this year. If he ends the year with ~100 PAs versus RHP (the rate he's on pace for) and ~150 PAs versus LHP, I'm fine with that.
|
|
|
Post by klostrophobic on Apr 12, 2016 17:20:11 GMT -5
How many at-bats did they promise Chris Young? And why would they do that? His only value is as a super-strict platoon player. I mean, why would they sign a guy who missed all of spring training without getting a contract offer from anyone for $13m and then promise him he would only have to spend 10 days in the minors no matter whether he was ready for the big leagues after those 10 days or not? Yeah, I don't understand these things either. Well, that was a different front office if you're talking about Masterson. That same front office gave us: Pablo Sandoval Bobby Valentine Stephen Drew at shortstop over Xander Bogaerts Rusney Castillo Allen Craig and Joe Kelly in exchange for John Lackey at league-minimum salary Mark Melancon in exchange for Jed Lowrie Andrew Bailey for Josh Reddick Jake Peavy for Jose Iglesias John Herrera for Frank Morales Porcello for 82.5 million AJ Pierzynski But I guess they had some good moves too like Miller for Rodriguez and the obvious unloading of 250 million dollars worth of trash Epstein had signed.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Apr 12, 2016 17:28:38 GMT -5
Well, that was a different front office if you're talking about Masterson. Masterson got less than $13m, and he got it before spring training. But the guy I was talking about was on your list.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2016 17:31:21 GMT -5
Yay! It's time for the annual shi***** on the FRont office!
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 12, 2016 17:45:15 GMT -5
This just sounds like Devil's advocacy. How is a negative WAR player valuable injury depth? Marrero can at least field, and it wouldn't be difficult at all to find a 1B/DH that could hit better than Pablo would. I disagree that Sandoval is a negative WAR player going forward, and the Red Sox front office almost certainly does as well. His offensive decline was largely BABIP-driven last year and will likely bounce back, and even if he never regains the power he showed earlier in his career, he should be around a ~100 wRC+ hitter. Even if his defense continues to be sub-par, that's a useful player and better than the next-best option in the organization or the kind of player floating around on waivers. Can you say that with a straight face? Calling his D sub-par is like calling Shaw a gold glove 3B. In his current shape I don't see him as anything but a negative war player going forward. His bat would need to be a lot better then league average for him to not be a negative war player at 3b. Without his power I also don't see how his bat plays at DH and 1B. Until he gets in shape he is useless.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Apr 12, 2016 17:58:21 GMT -5
Why would Sandoval accept a minor league assignment when he could instead elect free agency? He has no incentive to do so. Sandoval also has more of a role than you think. He's effectively the backup at 3B, 1B and DH, which means he likely gets at least a start or two a week even when everyone's healthy. He's also valuable injury depth-- without him on the roster, if any of Shaw, Hanley or Ortiz get hurt, it's some combination of Marrero, Castillo, Allen Craig or Bryce Brentz getting the playing time, which are all worse options. He also should be used as a bat off the bench to pinch-hit for Young (and maybe Bradley/Castillo or Swihart/Hanigan), yesterday's game notwithstanding. Wait, he could elect free agency? Even better. But why would he give up $80 million that he'll never see again? They put Holt at 3B before they put Pablo there. How is he going to work through a slump while rotting on the bench?
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2016 18:20:47 GMT -5
Buchholz is the ace.
|
|
|