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2016-2017 International Signing Period
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 1, 2016 16:41:40 GMT -5
If I'm the Red Sox, I would flirt with an appeal just to stick my middle finger up at the league and the rest of the teams. Obviously if the appeal can end up making the punishment worse, then I won't do it (I'm pretty sure we can't anyway), but it'd make a larger point that we're not going to be bullied by the rest of the league and the mythological central power and its arbitrary and random authority. If we were a bad team, I'd consider not playing road games, but that's admittedly excessive. We can save that for the Pats subforum. As a Boston fan I've had a long time to think of ways to stick it to the rest of the league and the commissioner. ehhh that's how you make enemies. They don't want to start the "well....everyone else did it too". If me, you, and a bunch of guys go to the titty bar and only I get caught by my wife.....I'm not ratting the rest of you out.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 1, 2016 16:54:28 GMT -5
The preceding post by Scott Cooper is hilarious.
I can't get too excited about the loss of the kids we signed. These are 16 year olds and any one of them is a long shot to be a big ML contributor even six years from now. If MLB doesn't go to an international draft, then the next time the RS are able to exceed their cap, I'd like to see them go BTW and spend huge to sign the top kids. If there's a Moncada in that class, I want him. If there are two kids who would be top five picks in the amateur draft, I want both. And if there are three...
Frankly, it's a much more efficient use of JWH's money than signing Pablo and Hanley types for huge money in free agency.
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Post by flasox27 on Jul 1, 2016 17:10:54 GMT -5
I wonder when and how the Cardinals are going to be punished for hacking the Astros computer, a much more serious offense. I guess Joe Torre will have a warm spot in his heart for one of his former teams.
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Post by jdb on Jul 1, 2016 17:11:12 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 1, 2016 17:15:06 GMT -5
Deterrence is literally the foundation upon which all modern law enforcement regimes are based. ...unless we're talking about the criminals who have a franchise to steal the most, the bad actors in the financial world *. They were bailed out to the tune of $15-$17 trillion in free money - offered and taken. A quote from the link: The political ramifications of this non-deterrence are still playing out, as anyone who's been watching the primaries unfold on both sides of the aisle would attest. Your quote is right on, but it only serves to highlight how divorced from "modern law enforcement" the regulatory framework for finance is. As for the Sox, it was obvious that they were the whipping boys (and girls) of choice what with all the signing shenanigans, but they weren't alone. It's understandable that MLB would want to clamp down, but this is selective deterrence in lieu of a comprehensive framework, as others have mentioned. Anyone who's read John Halyer's Lords of the Realm understands how this could could to pass, this seat of the pants, knee-jerk response. MLB leaders haven't been just reactionary, they damn near invented the term. *That was my cue.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 1, 2016 17:38:07 GMT -5
ehhh that's how you make enemies. They don't want to start the "well....everyone else did it too". If me, you, and a bunch of guys go to the titty bar and only I get caught by my wife.....I'm not ratting the rest of you out. You're not wrong, but I'd be the type of person who doesn't like the way a game is being played at a sleepover, so I'd pick up the board game/pieces and say (a la Cartman) "Screw you guys, I'm going home" In my defense, I am fully aware that I'm not cut out for any public position or line of work that has ties with the media. To continue your analogy though, if I know that you are at a gentleman's club, I'm going to see an "inefficiency" and see what I can get away with as well, having the knowledge of your trip to the gentleman's club as a potential argument point should things get raw. I'm not going to inform the commissioner and pressure him to impose spending limits on your future trips. (I am also aware that I blended your comparison with the original scenario and that some of the subsequent meaning got lost)
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 1, 2016 17:45:11 GMT -5
Yankees are expected to sign a top 30 player this year, so it will be interesting to see if there is extra scrutiny there. Rays, who are also capped, are expected to sign BA's #18 ranked player Diego Infante. I can imagine these GMs are not happy. Not saying there are package deals going on, but I would assume MLB would at least investigate.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 1, 2016 17:50:37 GMT -5
There is a lot of teams restricted this year, wouldn't be smarter for these kids to wait a signing period? I hope to god the Sox spend thirty million next year. I mean the Sox didn't get this idea out of the thin air. "I hope these kids hold off on taking life-changing amounts of money for a year, risking their own livelihood and that of their families, so that my favorite team can sign them." Wow is that what you read from what I said? I wrote theres a lot of teams restricted this year!!!!! More leverage.
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Post by kyla13 on Jul 1, 2016 17:55:34 GMT -5
Ehhh, this hurts but this is like Tyrion Lannister slapping King Joffrey. It stings for a while and your pride wounded, but you know you're still powerful and can exact revenge another time. A Ramsay Bolton level flaying is what I fear. You know, like DDo acquiring a Gray or a Teheran for Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech plus others.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 1, 2016 18:05:17 GMT -5
Ehhh, this hurts but this is like Tyrion Lannister slapping King Joffrey. It stings for a while and your pride wounded, but you know you're still powerful and can exact revenge another time. A Ramsay Bolton level flaying is what I fear. You know, like DDo acquiring a Gray or a Teheran for Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech plus others. That would one of the worst moves since Lucchino hired Valnetine and set the Red Sox back about 5 to 7 years. This team has way too many holes and acquiring some like Gray or Teheran is not going to make a big enough difference this year or for the next few years for that matter. Kershaw or Sale is not walking through that door and your don't trade two top 15 prospects plus for a #3 starter.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 1, 2016 18:20:11 GMT -5
As discussed upthread, sounds like the draftees will get to keep their bonuses and will be eligible to sign for additional bonuses this summer. Aside from the temporary break that will presumably come from having to leave the Red Sox DSL team and sign with another organization (which will probably be more than made up for by any additional bonuses they may receive), it doesn't seem to hurt them much. I'm curious if the players have the option of refusing free agency. Not that they would. But maybe they're unhappy with how MLB treated them and want to stay put. Could they say, no thanks to free agency and stay with the Sox org?
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Jul 1, 2016 18:28:36 GMT -5
I am really really upset at MLB"s unfair actions. If I'm the Sox I sue MLB for every single cent of cost. This is unfair and completely inconsistent action by MLB. MLB wants to make a point and choose the Red Sox. I bet every team has done this in the past. Also, I highly doubt MLB could look into the finances involved in the U.S. like they did here.
I wish Selig was still around and I hope the Sox sue!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 1, 2016 18:35:52 GMT -5
As discussed upthread, sounds like the draftees will get to keep their bonuses and will be eligible to sign for additional bonuses this summer. Aside from the temporary break that will presumably come from having to leave the Red Sox DSL team and sign with another organization (which will probably be more than made up for by any additional bonuses they may receive), it doesn't seem to hurt them much. I'm curious if the players have the option of refusing free agency. Not that they would. But maybe they're unhappy with how MLB treated them and want to stay put. Could they say, no thanks to free agency and stay with the Sox org? Why on Earth would they chose to turn down a second bonus ? Christmas came early for these five kids.
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alnipper
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Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Jul 1, 2016 18:38:10 GMT -5
I'm curious if the players have the option of refusing free agency. Not that they would. But maybe they're unhappy with how MLB treated them and want to stay put. Could they say, no thanks to free agency and stay with the Sox org? Why on Earth would they chose to turn down a second bonus ? Christmas came early for these five kids. Exactly!
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Post by borisman on Jul 2, 2016 9:58:41 GMT -5
I would definitely appeal and sue if I were the Sox. This is unfair and if the Sox are being punished for this then almost every other organization has to be investigated the same way. I wonder who blew the whistle, a disgruntled player, agent, former employee? This is waaayyyy too harsh.
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Post by azblue on Jul 2, 2016 10:36:38 GMT -5
My problem with the penalty is that MLB should have gone to all of the teams and told them that the bundling practice was going to end and that any signings of high ranked players for considerably less than their estimated value would be thoroughly investigated. Singling out the Red Sox for something that has been routine for many teams is a sign of bureaucratic arrogance. When dramatic punishment is prioritized over corrective action and fair warning, it is a sign of the Commissioner having an authoritarian mindset.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Jul 2, 2016 10:59:55 GMT -5
I would definitely appeal and sue if I were the Sox. This is unfair and if the Sox are being punished for this then almost every other organization has to be investigated the same way. I wonder who blew the whistle, a disgruntled player, agent, former employee? This is waaayyyy too harsh. It could be because the Sox were blatant in their actions of circumventing the $300,000 per player signing bonus. It also could've been another club blowing the whisle
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 2, 2016 11:01:22 GMT -5
So I'm assuming the Sox also lose the ability to trade their slot values also?
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 2, 2016 11:55:45 GMT -5
I'm guessing that a team offering a player 600k, only to lose him to the Sox for 300k may pass that info along to MLB.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 2, 2016 13:32:07 GMT -5
My problem with the penalty is that MLB should have gone to all of the teams and told them that the bundling practice was going to end and that any signings of high ranked players for considerably less than their estimated value would be thoroughly investigated. Singling out the Red Sox for something that has been routine for many teams is a sign of bureaucratic arrogance. When dramatic punishment is prioritized over corrective action and fair warning, it is a sign of the Commissioner having an authoritarian mindset. It's called "learning from the best". The NFL has been the most profitable league for a while now, so why wouldn't Rob Manfred put in a call to Roger Goodell and ask him for advice?
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 2, 2016 13:46:19 GMT -5
The NFL is popular due to fantasy football which Goodell had nothing to do with. I don't think Goodell is the model for anything other an extreme example of the Peter Principal. He takes the heat while the likes of Jones, Rooney and Mara pull his puppet strings. The NFL is likely going to have an extended walkout by the time the current collective bargaining agreement runs out.
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brisox
Rookie
SoxProspects Veteran
Posts: 87
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Post by brisox on Jul 2, 2016 17:09:07 GMT -5
Yeah its doubtful the Yankees would've got this type of punishment if they did the same thing. Its not a coincidence the league is based in New York and has a heavier hand with Boston. This is an idiotic comment. The Red Sox blatently gamed the system and got caught. This isn't Deflategate, this isn't a NY vs. BOS thing. This is a team under a financial limitation that signed two top-30 internationals for short money. It looked strange when it happened, and the Red Sox were too damn obvious about it. You are completely wrong here AMfox and I am not sure where you are getting this perception consider this 1) We are one of the most if not the most active teams in the international market especially Dominican 2) we have no choice but to work with the coaches/ Agents that work with these kids they set the terms 3) These Agents go to all the teams and tell them they must sign a "pool of players" the Red Sox are one of the few teams that have the $ and interest in doing that 4) Our FO International people had no idea that money wass being exchanged in the background, they are told they are getting x players for x$ and it includes the player they really wanted so they are happy to write the check . This is how it works , the Sox didn't invent it, they are a victim of it. Only The team stepping up and taking the heat kept us from big suspensions. Several other teams have done the exact same thing and MLB openly acknowledges this but decided to make an example of only us. This is not justice it is a witch hunt.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 2, 2016 18:41:21 GMT -5
This is an idiotic comment. The Red Sox blatently gamed the system and got caught. This isn't Deflategate, this isn't a NY vs. BOS thing. This is a team under a financial limitation that signed two top-30 internationals for short money. It looked strange when it happened, and the Red Sox were too damn obvious about it. You are completely wrong here AMfox and I am not sure where you are getting this perception consider this 1) We are one of the most if not the most active teams in the international market especially Dominican 2) we have no choice but to work with the coaches/ Agents that work with these kids they set the terms 3) These Agents go to all the teams and tell them they must sign a "pool of players" the Red Sox are one of the few teams that have the $ and interest in doing that 4) Our FO International people had no idea that money wass being exchanged in the background, they are told they are getting x players for x$ and it includes the player they really wanted so they are happy to write the check . This is how it works , the Sox didn't invent it, they are a victim of it. Only The team stepping up and taking the heat kept us from big suspensions. Several other teams have done the exact same thing and MLB openly acknowledges this but decided to make an example of only us. This is not justice it is a witch hunt. Brisox, why do you think think the Red Sox are getting singled out? Also, this isn't the thread but I'd be interested in knowing if you think we're in jeopardy of losing some major prospects at the deadline. I think a number of us have a fear that the Red Sox are going to do something that will drastically thin out their farm system of top prospects and some of us worry that the Red Sox will do something rash in the name of instant gratification to try to make the playoffs. Maybe you can give us your thoughts in an appropriate thread.
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Post by aboynamedkimandrew on Jul 3, 2016 2:05:33 GMT -5
This is an idiotic comment. The Red Sox blatently gamed the system and got caught. This isn't Deflategate, this isn't a NY vs. BOS thing. This is a team under a financial limitation that signed two top-30 internationals for short money. It looked strange when it happened, and the Red Sox were too damn obvious about it. You are completely wrong here AMfox and I am not sure where you are getting this perception consider this 1) We are one of the most if not the most active teams in the international market especially Dominican 2) we have no choice but to work with the coaches/ Agents that work with these kids they set the terms 3) These Agents go to all the teams and tell them they must sign a "pool of players" the Red Sox are one of the few teams that have the $ and interest in doing that 4) Our FO International people had no idea that money wass being exchanged in the background, they are told they are getting x players for x$ and it includes the player they really wanted so they are happy to write the check . This is how it works , the Sox didn't invent it, they are a victim of it. Only The team stepping up and taking the heat kept us from big suspensions. Several other teams have done the exact same thing and MLB openly acknowledges this but decided to make an example of only us. This is not justice it is a witch hunt. The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get about how MLB went about this. I don't know what, if any, appeal rights the Sox might have had, but they were effectively rendered irrelevant by announcing the penalty the day before the signing period began. Even if they wanted to contest it, the one year ban would have been effectively implemented because many of the players the Sox targeted would be gone before any hearing. That's a sign of a sleazy operation.
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brisox
Rookie
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Posts: 87
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Post by brisox on Jul 3, 2016 4:16:37 GMT -5
Also, this isn't the thread but I'd be interested in knowing if you think we're in jeopardy of losing some major prospects at the deadline. I think a number of us have a fear that the Red Sox are going to do something that will drastically thin out their farm system of top prospects and some of us worry that the Red Sox will do something rash in the name of instant gratification to try to make the playoffs. Maybe you can give us your thoughts in an appropriate thread. Outside of putting Farrell on a raft and setting him adrift I think there are very few players we will do that for, Everyone wants Moncado, AB and AE , for some really non elite talent . the market is just not good.
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