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How do you improve the Red Sox
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Post by rjp313jr on May 24, 2016 9:23:13 GMT -5
We are deep in the bullpen and it's vital to the success but they depth took a huge hit worth the loss of Carson Smith (TJS) so one more injury and we are back to last years bullpen. Cannot let that happen with this starting pitching the way it is.
It's not like the team can only make one move and they have to choose.
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Post by sox fan in nc on May 24, 2016 10:34:07 GMT -5
OMG----just read that about Carson (needing TJS)......****....Barnes/Hembree will have to nut up & pick up this loss.
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Post by telson13 on May 24, 2016 11:19:44 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely. They'd have an awesome offense, as in historic. But the Indians had one of those recently, and it didn't last very long, and didn't win them a WS. I get the temptation to add Trout if the Sox could get him for their top-4. That trade would have everything the Angels need: a nearly MLB-ready CF, a supreme INF batting prospect who's fairly close, a potential ace (and I mean ace, not just "#1 starter on a mediocre staff"), and a potential middle-order 3b. I just don't think it would be at all in the Sox's best interest, because of the long-term fallout: salary restriction, inability to promote from depth to fill injury holes, loss of homegrown players due to inability to extend them, loss of ability to trade from depth to fill injury needs (or FA losses), etc. It would be fun to watch (pretty sure my millennium club thread would become obsolete), but I'd rather they be patient than shoot for the moon. They're in first place...how much more offense do they need? They already lead the AL in scoring and run differential. Don't think you can be patient this year as its Ortiz last year and he is playing at MVP level. This is your last chance with the heart and soul of team. Don't think Trout trade has any chance of happening, but I for sure think DD trades for a LF and it's going to cost some prospects. If we need a pitcher he will get us one. We are going all in this year and I love it. It's the right thing to do. I love the idea of getting Reddick if he comes back healthy and shows no ill effects. The asking price shouldn't be that much, thinking a package of guys outside top 6. Yeah, I was only arguing against the value of acquiring Trout (and/or another high-cost starter). I think Reddick would be ideal; Bruce or Gonzalez would be good too, if the Sox could basically take on a salary dump with little talent expense.
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Post by telson13 on May 24, 2016 11:27:20 GMT -5
I don't think there's much sense trading for a Carson Smith replacement. Barnes is third in the AL in FB velocity among relievers, fourth in strand rate. He started off getting hit hard (with some luck, too), but he's generally improved. Ross has been very solid, and is highly effective against lefties. Hembree's had a few clunkers lately, but had a great run to start the year, and has been solid his last couple outings. Koji's much more hittable these days, but he's still a viable late-inning option. They have Light very close, and Martin an outside possibility. Unless the starters continue to struggle with 4-inning outings (I don't think that will happen), there's no need for panic. Smith's barely pitched this year, anyway.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 24, 2016 12:46:17 GMT -5
I don't think there's much sense trading for a Carson Smith replacement. Barnes is third in the AL in FB velocity among relievers, fourth in strand rate. He started off getting hit hard (with some luck, too), but he's generally improved. Ross has been very solid, and is highly effective against lefties. Hembree's had a few clunkers lately, but had a great run to start the year, and has been solid his last couple outings. Koji's much more hittable these days, but he's still a viable late-inning option. They have Light very close, and Martin an outside possibility. Unless the starters continue to struggle with 4-inning outings (I don't think that will happen), there's no need for panic. Smith's barely pitched this year, anyway. I question if the bullpen will hold up. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Koji and Tazawa wear out as the season goes on. That doesn't mean that the Sox can't plug in Ross or maybe Barnes into those high leverage 7th and 8th inning situations, but Farrell, for whatever reason, seems reluctant to use Ross that way, and honestly I don't know that Barnes and Hembree are going to continue to be as effective as they have been thus far. I'd feel a lot better if the Sox had a reliable setup man that can come into a 3-2 game in the 8th inning and hold the lead. That is Uehara's main role, but with the Sox in a lot of close games, and fortunately leading a lot of close games, Uehara and Tazawa could either break down or get overworked. I don't think the cost to upgrade at middle relief is anywhere near prohibitive. I'm talking a rental type pitcher, a guy a losing team doesn't need who is going to lose the pitcher to free agency anyways or some scenario like that. I'm not ready to trust Pat Light. He throws hard but his control and command is highly questionable at this stage. The Sox bullpen has done well to date, actually pretty admirable considering that Price has only begun to pitch like Price and Porcello and Wright have been the only consistent starters all year, but at some point I really think this bullpen will need a reinforcement. And it's a small move, but one that can help keep the rest of the pen fresh.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on May 24, 2016 14:11:46 GMT -5
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on May 24, 2016 15:25:24 GMT -5
I would stand pat. I would give ERod some time to heal his knee more. The Sox have plenty of options to replace Smith. They have so far.
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Post by telson13 on May 24, 2016 17:14:55 GMT -5
I don't think there's much sense trading for a Carson Smith replacement. Barnes is third in the AL in FB velocity among relievers, fourth in strand rate. He started off getting hit hard (with some luck, too), but he's generally improved. Ross has been very solid, and is highly effective against lefties. Hembree's had a few clunkers lately, but had a great run to start the year, and has been solid his last couple outings. Koji's much more hittable these days, but he's still a viable late-inning option. They have Light very close, and Martin an outside possibility. Unless the starters continue to struggle with 4-inning outings (I don't think that will happen), there's no need for panic. Smith's barely pitched this year, anyway. I question if the bullpen will hold up. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Koji and Tazawa wear out as the season goes on. That doesn't mean that the Sox can't plug in Ross or maybe Barnes into those high leverage 7th and 8th inning situations, but Farrell, for whatever reason, seems reluctant to use Ross that way, and honestly I don't know that Barnes and Hembree are going to continue to be as effective as they have been thus far. I'd feel a lot better if the Sox had a reliable setup man that can come into a 3-2 game in the 8th inning and hold the lead. That is Uehara's main role, but with the Sox in a lot of close games, and fortunately leading a lot of close games, Uehara and Tazawa could either break down or get overworked. I don't think the cost to upgrade at middle relief is anywhere near prohibitive. I'm talking a rental type pitcher, a guy a losing team doesn't need who is going to lose the pitcher to free agency anyways or some scenario like that. I'm not ready to trust Pat Light. He throws hard but his control and command is highly questionable at this stage. The Sox bullpen has done well to date, actually pretty admirable considering that Price has only begun to pitch like Price and Porcello and Wright have been the only consistent starters all year, but at some point I really think this bullpen will need a reinforcement. And it's a small move, but one that can help keep the rest of the pen fresh. I tend to agree that it's better to be safe than sorry, I'm just concerned about the cost of a high-quality 8th inning arm. It might be more than you think. But, if they can fill that spot in a salary dump without giving up a bunch of talent, I'm all for it.
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Post by jimed14 on May 24, 2016 17:16:52 GMT -5
Farrell has to just get over it and use Ross like he uses Tazawa instead of him being an afterthought in just about every game except ones where the entire bullpen is exhausted.
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Post by telson13 on May 24, 2016 17:24:31 GMT -5
Farrell has to just get over it and use Ross like he uses Tazawa instead of him being an afterthought in just about every game except ones where the entire bullpen is exhausted. Yeah, and for his part Ross doesn't seem to get rattled. He should absolutely be pitching in those situations against Toronto, at least. I've never seen a team so regularly whup on a pitcher as the Jays and Tazawa.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 24, 2016 17:59:13 GMT -5
Farrell has to just get over it and use Ross like he uses Tazawa instead of him being an afterthought in just about every game except ones where the entire bullpen is exhausted. On 4/25 JF brought him into a 1-0 game in the 7th versus Atlanta, with men on 1st and 2nd and 1 out. He got Stubbs on a GB and fanned Aybar. At that point in the season, his numbers were very good, and they were electric in his last 4 outings. He has yet to pitch again from the 6th onwards in a save situation. In fact, almost three weeks went by after that before he made another remotely meaningful appearance. 4/30, 8th inning up 8-0 5/5, 8th inning up 7-3 5/10, 7th inning up 11-4 5/13, 6th inning, 2 outs, man on 1st, trailing 7-5 ... after Barnes had gone back out for the 6th in a tie game. 5/15, he relieved O'Sullivan in the 5th with men on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out and the Sox up 8-4. That's actually high-leverage, but when you enter in the 5th, it's still mopup duty of sorts. 5/20, 9th inning, trailing 4-2 I don't have to tell you that numbers the entire way have been among the best, if not the best, of anyone in the pen.
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Post by jimed14 on May 24, 2016 18:23:32 GMT -5
Farrell has to just get over it and use Ross like he uses Tazawa instead of him being an afterthought in just about every game except ones where the entire bullpen is exhausted. On 4/25 JF brought him into a 1-0 game in the 7th versus Atlanta, with men on 1st and 2nd and 1 out. He got Stubbs on a GB and fanned Aybar. At that point in the season, his numbers were very good, and they were electric in his last 4 outings. He has yet to pitch again from the 6th onwards in a save situation. In fact, almost three weeks went by after that before he made another remotely meaningful appearance. 4/30, 8th inning up 8-0 5/5, 8th inning up 7-3 5/10, 7th inning up 11-4 5/13, 6th inning, 2 outs, man on 1st, trailing 7-5 ... after Barnes had gone back out for the 6th in a tie game. 5/15, he relieved O'Sullivan in the 5th with men on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out and the Sox up 8-4. That's actually high-leverage, but when you enter in the 5th, it's still mopup duty of sorts. 5/20, 9th inning, trailing 4-2 I don't have to tell you that numbers the entire way have been among the best, if not the best, of anyone in the pen. Farrell understanding this would be a huge improvement to the bullpen, better than anyone we could trade for at this point of the season.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 24, 2016 22:07:25 GMT -5
Regarding Trout, I think people are overestimating what Trout will return to the Angels. There's never been a trade that was close to what people think, our top 4 prospects who are all top 30 prospects in baseball, let alone for a player who is owed 130 million over the next 4 1/2 years.
I am curious, exactly which team do people think could or would top my proposal of 3 top 20 prospects (Benintendi, Devers,Swihart was 17 last year) and a plausible center fielder (Castillo) plus 80 million in savings over 4 1/2 years? Let's not forget, Trout goes to 33M for his last 3 years.
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Post by jmei on May 24, 2016 22:18:04 GMT -5
There's a Trout thread in the trade proposal subforum. Generally, discussion of specific trade packages should go to that subforum. Thanks.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 24, 2016 22:38:52 GMT -5
This is a thread for how we would improve the Sox. That's how I would propose improving the Sox. You're welcome.
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Post by jmei on May 24, 2016 22:53:15 GMT -5
Not really up for discussion. If this thread gets bogged down in specific trade proposals, it will be moved to the trade proposal subforum.
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Post by telluricrook on May 24, 2016 23:37:29 GMT -5
Why is everyone talking about Replacing carson smith? He pitched 2.2 innings this year just sayin..
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2016 0:34:34 GMT -5
Why is everyone talking about Replacing carson smith? He pitched 2.2 innings this year just sayin.. Because of the real possibility that Uehara breaks down as he approaches 70 games pitched or the possibility that Tazawa wears down as he nears that number or the possibility that Barnes or Hembree regress or the possibility that Farrell doesn't realize that he has an asset in Ross. Injuries can happen. Depth is important. Smith was supposed to be a late inning guy who could protect a lead and protect against overuse of Uehara and Tazawa. It's early and others have pitched in, but that doesn't mean that the entire season will go that way. Carson Smith is a key loss and the Sox will have to weigh over the next couple of months whether they need an upgrade and/or how much would they be willing to give up (obviously a lot less than it would cost to secure a #2 starter or a starting LF).
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Post by mgoetze on May 25, 2016 3:15:20 GMT -5
Why is everyone talking about Replacing carson smith? He pitched 2.2 innings this year just sayin.. Because of the real possibility that Uehara breaks down as he approaches 70 games pitched or the possibility that Tazawa wears down as he nears that number or the possibility that Barnes or Hembree regress or the possibility that Farrell doesn't realize that he has an asset in Ross. So the best way to improve the Sox is to trade for... Terry Francona?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2016 5:46:31 GMT -5
Brought this up in another thread and yeah I agree with the general consensus with a lot of the names brought up.
Just seems to me that the Sox and A's are destined to make a trade this deadline of some sort.
Between Danny Valencia (who could play LF), Josh Reddick, and Rich Hill.
This seams to be the best course of action to improve the Sox.
Rich Hill's and Reddick's salary matches up with Buchholz' salary. Food for thought.
Edit- I wonder if the A's could speed up the Reddick trade process by transferring him to the 60 day DL retroactive to his original DL stint. Could speed up the trade market before the trade deadline comes and goes.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 25, 2016 6:37:28 GMT -5
Brought this up in another thread and yeah I agree with the general consensus with a lot of the names brought up. Just seems to me that the Sox and A's are destined to make a trade this deadline of some sort. Between Danny Valencia (who could play LF), Josh Reddick, and Rich Hill. This seams to be the best course of action to improve the Sox. Rich Hill's and Reddick's salary matches up with Buchholz' salary. Food for thought. Edit- I wonder if the A's could speed up the Reddick trade process by transferring him to the 60 day DL retroactive to his original DL stint. Could speed up the trade market before the trade deadline comes and goes. He's not expected to be out 60 days.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on May 25, 2016 8:10:43 GMT -5
Brought this up in another thread and yeah I agree with the general consensus with a lot of the names brought up. Just seems to me that the Sox and A's are destined to make a trade this deadline of some sort. Between Danny Valencia (who could play LF), Josh Reddick, and Rich Hill. This seams to be the best course of action to improve the Sox. Rich Hill's and Reddick's salary matches up with Buchholz' salary. Food for thought. Edit- I wonder if the A's could speed up the Reddick trade process by transferring him to the 60 day DL retroactive to his original DL stint. Could speed up the trade market before the trade deadline comes and goes. Would be a three way. Buchholz for prospects. Some combo of prospects to Oak. Beane would have no interest in Clay.
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Post by jdb on May 25, 2016 8:47:22 GMT -5
Hard to say with so much time until the deadline and the fact a lot of our main questions could be answered from within. For some reason I have a better feeling that our pitching will improve from our 40 man. I'm not sold on Swihart as the LHH LF option and think we will need to target someone like the previously mentioned Jon Jay or Ichiro type. That would improve our bench with Holt. Maybe the Dodgers try and unload Eithier when he gets back. I'm not opposed for a 2016 LF option and 2017 and on DH like Braun but I don't give up a big five chip for him so it probably doesn't happen.
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Post by radiohix on May 25, 2016 9:28:40 GMT -5
Thinking about it, I may be interested in a sinkerballer type of reliever who ponds the strike zone. Someone who could get you a grounder when you need a double play. Chad Qualls or someone like that.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on May 25, 2016 9:30:38 GMT -5
Hard to say with so much time until the deadline and the fact a lot of our main questions could be answered from within. For some reason I have a better feeling that our pitching will improve from our 40 man. I'm not sold on Swihart as the LHH LF option and think we will need to target someone like the previously mentioned Jon Jay or Ichiro type. That would improve our bench with Holt. Maybe the Dodgers try and unload Eithier when he gets back. I'm not opposed for a 2016 LF option and 2017 and on DH like Braun but I don't give up a big five chip for him so it probably doesn't happen. I'd like to see Swihart catching in AAA. That's the best way to increase his trade value. IMO. We need a LH bat for LF. Let's get it done now. Doesn't have to be an all star either. Allows you to use Holt as you mentioned. Utility role. Let the pitching play itself out. See what we need in July
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