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6/17-6/19 Red Sox vs. Seattle Series Thead
bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jun 17, 2016 20:07:46 GMT -5
Also, keep in mind that the Mariners' bullpen is shot after the last two nights against Tampa. There is hope for this game. They need someone to go yard with two on. An Earl Weaver 3run homer but never mind.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 17, 2016 20:13:25 GMT -5
lol I thought Hanley was just being Hanley there.
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Post by bosox81 on Jun 17, 2016 20:13:48 GMT -5
Low IQ Hanley strikes again.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 17, 2016 20:16:36 GMT -5
Yea was incredible how his eyes SAW there.
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Post by dnfl333 on Jun 17, 2016 20:20:54 GMT -5
Fire Farrell before its to late
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 17, 2016 20:24:01 GMT -5
2 outs in a row, Jerry Remy is pleased.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 17, 2016 20:36:53 GMT -5
If tonight's work by Elias is representative of what's to come from him, the Sox are in pretty big trouble.
At some point I don't think Wright will be as acelike as he's been, although Price, I believe, will continue to do what he's been doing since Pedroia "fixed" him. Porcello will have his ups and downs and be a viable starter, but that's all they have.
You figure between E-Rod, Buchholz, Kelly, Owens, Johnson, and Elias the Sox should have been able to scrounge up at least one serviceable starter among them.
I think Eric Van thought it was crazy to consider that the odds on all of them going belly up was likely, but here we are, and it's a very good possibility the Sox will be running a replacement level pitcher to the mound two times out of 5. That's going to make it pretty hard to make the post-season and if Brisox is correct, and the pressure is on Dombrowski from Henry and Werner to get the Sox into the playoffs, I shudder to think what will happen come Aug 1st.
I could live with giving up Margot, Allen, Asuaje, and Guerra for Kimbrel, but draw the line there. It's really scary to consider how much he'll give up for Teheran or somebody else. I'd say Devers will be gone, but it's also possible Espinoza would be gone and that would be a horrible mistake. And who knows who else.
I wish somebody (Buchholz I'm looking at you) would step up and if he pitches well enough before he gets hurt and E-Rod gets straightened out by that time, the Sox will be alright and perhaps avoid being forced to deal from a position of desperation.
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Post by bosox81 on Jun 17, 2016 20:54:07 GMT -5
Sandy Leon, King of the BABIP
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Post by libertine on Jun 17, 2016 20:59:07 GMT -5
The sky is falling again, isn't it?
How I long for the olden days of this May when people were inscribing our name on the WS trophy when we were hot.
I will save my continuing rants about O'Brien for another space in time other than saying it has been a while since I found watching the games on NESN be this tedious. Just my opinion tho, others may disagree...
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Post by bosox81 on Jun 17, 2016 21:02:02 GMT -5
Every offense goes through slumps during the season. I think the Sox are going through one right now. And they still scored four runs. I was surprised Cishek got the call today as he has pitched the last two days.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jun 17, 2016 21:07:42 GMT -5
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 6m6 minutes ago Red Sox lose, 8-4. They're 37-29. They're 8-12 over their last 20 G. In that span, their starters have allowed 25 HR, second-most in MLB.
OUCH!!
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jun 17, 2016 21:11:38 GMT -5
Leon looks like a ML hitter at the plate this year. Not just the results, but his confidence and how he carries himself seems n ight and day from last year I've never been able to master the skill of discerning proper athletic carriage or confidence. Would you mind sharing a bit of your methodology? What is your process? Are the results measurable? I am so curious.
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Post by Canseco on Jun 17, 2016 21:35:19 GMT -5
The sky is falling again, isn't it? How I long for the olden days of this May when people were inscribing our name on the WS trophy when we were hot. I will save my continuing rants about O'Brien for another space in time other than saying it has been a while since I found watching the games on NESN be this tedious. Just my opinion tho, others may disagree... I'm with you. The broadcast is so corporate and up its own ass now. I miss the lighter tone of Don Orsillo. Also, this pitching staff is a real problem. It's tough to realize that not ONE of Barnes, Owens, or Johnson has been able to surface as a serviceable fifth starter. Ugh.
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Post by libertine on Jun 17, 2016 22:12:20 GMT -5
The sky is falling again, isn't it? How I long for the olden days of this May when people were inscribing our name on the WS trophy when we were hot. I will save my continuing rants about O'Brien for another space in time other than saying it has been a while since I found watching the games on NESN be this tedious. Just my opinion tho, others may disagree... I'm with you. The broadcast is so corporate and up its own ass now. I miss the lighter tone of Don Orsillo. Also, this pitching staff is a real problem. It's tough to realize that not ONE of Barnes, Owens, or Johnson has been able to surface as a serviceable fifth starter. Ugh. Cliched (I feel like I am watching a fight scene from the old Batman TV series with all the balls that are "clobbered, slammed, hammered, blasted, and/or smashed"...for those who remember the show), way too intense with every series/game seeming to be "make or break" or "pivotal". And so much more informed like knowing (insert player's name here) has a 17 game hit streak against this team during night games played on Wednesdays in May, June and July. Just for starters, and randomly, for example...
But getting to the pitching I agree it is a bit of a problem right now. We have a 1 and a 2 in Price and Wright (or Wright and Price). We need Porcello to pitch more like a 3, hoping he can turn it back around. I am hopeful that the change to ERod's set-up, which was discussed during the broadcast tonight, can get him on track to be at least a serviceable 5 starter. But that leaves us a #4 short of having a 5 man rotation. IF we have to make a trade for a 4 we shouldn't have to give up too much to get one. Right now I don't see one in house, either at Fenway or on the farm. Would they at some point think about moving Barnes into the rotation? He has been looking decent as of late in the pen. That would be about the last move before trading for one.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 17, 2016 22:31:52 GMT -5
I'll say it again - this organization has been a failure at developing starting pitching the last 8 years.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 17, 2016 22:33:36 GMT -5
It is kind of amusing that we finished dead last in the division 3 of the last 4 years, and we are constantly upset with a young team that has frequently flirted with being at the top of the division (a strong one at that) throughout the season. For the past few years, we would have been content with a team that finished .500 yet we are not happy now? I would have thought that losing so much recently would make us appreciate winning more, but maybe our Boston teams have spoiled us as of late. I imagine that there is a generation gap along this line of thought. I wonder how some people here would be in an alternate universe where this site was IndiansProspects.com.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 17, 2016 22:50:54 GMT -5
It is kind of amusing that we finished dead last in the division 3 of the last 4 years, and we are constantly upset with a young team that has frequently flirted with being at the top of the division (a strong one at that) throughout the season. For the past few years, we would have been content with a team that finished .500 yet we are not happy now? I would have thought that losing so much recently would make us appreciate winning more, but maybe our Boston teams have spoiled us as of late. I imagine that there is a generation gap along this line of thought. I wonder how some people here would be in an alternate universe where this site was IndiansProspects.com. Well-put. They're slumping. It happens. I'm pretty confident that they'll break out of it, probably fairly soon.
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Post by station13 on Jun 17, 2016 23:14:32 GMT -5
Elias is already sent packing. They will need to get Noe Ramirez arm in that depleted bullpen tomorrow. Will they ever give some other guys a chance?
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 17, 2016 23:19:05 GMT -5
Well-put. They're slumping. It happens. I'm pretty confident that they'll break out of it, probably fairly soon. And even if they don't, there are 28 other teams not winning the World Series this year either. We possibly have the most Soxprospects driven roster of any team in history. This is close to what posters here would dream about a decade ago. Our collective happiness and temperament is literally and solely based on the box score. Think about this. There are people in the US old enough to legally drink that have not been alive to see 20 teams win a World Series. It might be because I'm poor, but I'm more concerned about the job market, upcoming election, paying my bills and feeding my kids than I am caring whether or not the Red Sox win their 9th World Series.
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Post by brendandonnelly on Jun 18, 2016 0:53:24 GMT -5
Leon looks like a ML hitter at the plate this year. Not just the results, but his confidence and how he carries himself seems n ight and day from last year I've never been able to master the skill of discerning proper athletic carriage or confidence. Would you mind sharing a bit of your methodology? What is your process? Are the results measurable? I am so curious. Are you really? Save your snarkiness
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,947
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 18, 2016 1:56:28 GMT -5
Elias is already sent packing. They will need to get Noe Ramirez arm in that depleted bullpen tomorrow. Will they ever give some other guys a chance? They also optioned Castillo. Will they call up Brentz (.309 / .339 / .473 since May 14 coming into tonight's game), or make a trade? I'll be surprised if they select Ramos; he did have the great last 19 games in Portland (.355 / .388 / .500 in 81 PA) but hasn't done much in AAA. He also has a total of 4 games started in LF in his career. As far as as the pen goes, Porcello and Price are not serious risks for getting knocked out early, and everyone in the pen but Hembree and Layne got the day off. Barnes will have 1 day rest, Tazawa and Kimbrel 2, Uehara 5, and Ross 6 -- he'll have thrown a whole 3 pitches in the last 10 days.* They could certainly go back to a 4-man bench, although Marrero would seem to be the only option. *Of course, among the 7 regular relievers he's only 1st in Win Probability Added (despite being 4th in Leverage Index), 1st in RE24/IP (change in Run Expectancy per IP -- essentially ERA adjusted for inherited runners), 1st in Inning/Score Clutch Differential (WPA-RE24)/IP, 1st in HR/FB, 1st in lowest Pull%, 2nd to Kimbrel in xFIP-and FIP-, 3rd in ERA- (to Hembree and Kimbrel), and 4th in SIERA (to Kimbrel, Uehara, and Tazawa). He'll have to step it up and rank 1st in all of those metrics to be taken seriously by JF; currently, he's 6th in IP * LI.
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Post by dnfl333 on Jun 18, 2016 6:33:30 GMT -5
I'll say it again - this organization has been a failure at developing starting pitching the last 8 years. Do the research. You might learn something. ABaird and BCrockett in charge of Minor League development. There is your problem. All they have done is throw money at the lack of pitching depth in the minors by signing "international free agents" to excessive signing bonuses. Trey Ball another example. Why draft a project at #7? The entire 13 draft was a Bust. Your first 10 picks that year cost 6 million in SBonus cash. Most no longer with the Team, in jail or will not pan out. Embarrassment to the paying fan.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2016 6:39:12 GMT -5
Elias is already sent packing. They will need to get Noe Ramirez arm in that depleted bullpen tomorrow. Will they ever give some other guys a chance? I think Vavaro is getting the callup.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2016 6:41:22 GMT -5
I'll say it again - this organization has been a failure at developing starting pitching the last 8 years. Do the research. You might learn something. ABaird and BCrockett in charge of Minor League development. There is your problem. All they have done is throw money at the lack of pitching depth in the minors by signing "international free agents" to excessive signing bonuses. Trey Ball another example. Why draft a project at #7? The entire 13 draft was a Bust. Your first 10 picks that year cost 6 million in SBonus cash. Most no longer with the Team, in jail or will not pan out. Embarrassment to the paying fan. You point to the one draft that has failed arguably in the last 5 drafts? Please tell us how the Sox failed in the 2011, 2015, and 2016 drafts. And please tell us how the Sox have been failing in the international market the past 5 years by signing Margot, Guerra, Devers, Moncada, and Espinoza.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 18, 2016 7:04:33 GMT -5
The sky is falling again, isn't it? How I long for the olden days of this May when people were inscribing our name on the WS trophy when we were hot. I will save my continuing rants about O'Brien for another space in time other than saying it has been a while since I found watching the games on NESN be this tedious. Just my opinion tho, others may disagree... I wouldn't say the sky is falling. The fact that they haven't exactly nose-dived, but are kind of treading water bodes well for the team. I think they'll get hot again once Shaw and Ramirez heat up a little bit and they'll jump up to the 16 - 20 games over .500 area, but by then Toronto and Baltimore might be there, too. I think what I find most frustrating is that the Sox are obviously in contention, the pressure is on Dombrowski from up top to win now (I believe Brisox re: that), and you have to factor in that Ortiz is in his last season and playing at an out-of-this world level, which will be virtually impossible to replace next season. This is a formula on how desperation trades get made. I'm very concerned that Anderson Espinoza might get sacrificed in a deal for Teheran or something like that. I don't even want to lose Devers who I believe in. I kind of hope he keeps slumping thru July so other teams don't want him as much. I keep hoping Buchholz or E-Rod figure it out and soon, so that they save the Sox from this scenario. I read last night that E-Rod is going back to his old delivery. He went to his new ineffective delivery to try to minimize and recurring discomfort to his knee. This is a story that's pretty common. Pitcher gets hurt. Pitcher tries to stay away from re-injuring or making worse his discomfort, favors something else, and either gets hurt or is very ineffective. I think E-Rod is at the point he's saying the heck with it. I'll pitch thru it. My hopes say that the old E-Rod emerges and that Buchholz, frosted over being demoted to the pen, pitches with a chip on his shoulder the rest of the way, like D-Lowe did in Oct 2004. I think the Sox are a good team with real problems that could torpedo their season, and I don't think it's "negative" to discuss them. I think the unrealistic part of the whining is that when fans see these issues, they act like the rest of the league is the 27 Yankees, without any issues of their own, and from where I sit, only the Cubs are playing anything like the 27 or 98 Yankees. I don't expect the Sox to have HOFer at every position and on the bench, but I hope our FO is trying to upgrade them at a reasonable cost, and sometimes the cost just isn't worth the upgrade, which is what I'm thinking is the scenario with the starting pitching. I think the Sox need a guy they can pitch twice in a 7 game series - a #2/#3 type starter because I think there will be heavy regression with Wright (hope I'm wrong on that), and the thought of Porcello starting twice in 7 games doesn't thrill me, but yeah, it's cheaper (I would think) to get a #4 starter type. Meanwhile I'll continue to hope that E-Rod's old delivery resolves the #3 starter issue, and that Buchholz can be a serviceable #5 or that even Elias can be that guy. And I'll also hope that Janssen can be that guy in the pen that Farrell can go to in the 8th inning to help take the pressure off of Tazawa and Uehara.
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