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Post by deepjohn on Sept 11, 2016 16:05:37 GMT -5
I suggest locking this thread and starting over. Do we have reason to believe that the next thread won't also be a dumpster fire? For those interested, Kopech had an amazing year, really like few pitchers have ever had over a stretch of five games. In the results of his last two games, we can infer that he had a dead-arm injury, perhaps from trying to do too much too soon. I'm guessing the Sox will play it safe and let him recover rather than call him up, however much they do need him. And they do need him. But just for the history books .... Next year, given only good health, Kopech will be among the best pitchers in MLB.
It's not clear whether the Sox will need him more as a starter like Syndegaard, or a reliever like Chapman. Either way, he'll be among the best. Be well, until next year. dj
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 11, 2016 16:50:41 GMT -5
Yeah, all he needs is health and he'll win 300 games next year.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Sept 11, 2016 17:55:07 GMT -5
Do we have reason to believe that the next thread won't also be a dumpster fire? For those interested, Kopech had an amazing year, really like few pitchers have ever had over a stretch of five games. In the results of his last two games, we can infer that he had a dead-arm injury, perhaps from trying to do too much too soon. I'm guessing the Sox will play it safe and let him recover rather than call him up, however much they do need him. And they do need him. But just for the history books .... Next year, given only good health, Kopech will be among the best pitchers in MLB.
It's not clear whether the Sox will need him more as a starter like Syndegaard, or a reliever like Chapman. Either way, he'll be among the best. Be well, until next year. dj Saying he'll be among the best pitchers in MLB next year is the most deepjohnish statement I've ever seen, apart from the "most dominant 6 inning stretch in the history of baseball" gem. At least we're saved from having to deal with this trolling during the offseason.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 11, 2016 18:23:59 GMT -5
Droll troll...
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Post by Gwell55 on Sept 11, 2016 18:28:10 GMT -5
For those interested, Kopech had an amazing year, really like few pitchers have ever had over a stretch of five games. In the results of his last two games, we can infer that he had a dead-arm injury, perhaps from trying to do too much too soon. I'm guessing the Sox will play it safe and let him recover rather than call him up, however much they do need him. And they do need him. But just for the history books .... Next year, given only good health, Kopech will be among the best "fastest throwing" pitchers in MLB MiLB.
It's not clear whether the Sox will need him more as a starter like Syndegaard, or a reliever like Chapman. Either way, he'll be among the best. Be well, until next year. dj Saying he'll be among the best pitchers in MLB next year is the most deepjohnish statement I've ever seen, apart from the "most dominant 6 inning stretch in the history of baseball" gem. At least we're saved from having to deal with this trolling during the offseason. Hey humanbeingbean with just a little editing of DJ's post your highlighted part could make sense...
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 11, 2016 18:52:10 GMT -5
I suggest locking this thread and starting over. Do we have reason to believe that the next thread won't also be a dumpster fire? I can think of one way to make sure it isn't.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2016 18:53:11 GMT -5
Do we have reason to believe that the next thread won't also be a dumpster fire? For those interested, Kopech had an amazing year, really like few pitchers have ever had over a stretch of five games. In the results of his last two games, we can infer that he had a dead-arm injury, perhaps from trying to do too much too soon. I'm guessing the Sox will play it safe and let him recover rather than call him up, however much they do need him. And they do need him. But just for the history books .... Next year, given only good health, Kopech will be among the best pitchers in MLB.
It's not clear whether the Sox will need him more as a starter like Syndegaard, or a reliever like Chapman. Either way, he'll be among the best. Be well, until next year. dj I like Kopech and am not convinced he can only be Daniel Bard, but I'm also not convinced he's the next Nolan Ryan or Noah Syndergaard or something in between. A five game sample is hardly large enough to jump to conclusions one way or another. Not all guys with dead arms walk the first five batters they face in an outing. He obviously has questions about his secondary pitches and his control and command. I won't say that dead arm isn't part of it, but that's a lot of walks, something that can be a concern with him. I'm old enough to remember Roger Clemens shooting through the system and he didn't have those types of questions. That said, why don't you Deepjohn knock it off with the ridiculous overstatements and realize he is what he is? A very young and talented pitcher with a lot more development ahead of him who is certainly one of the more exciting and intriguing pitching prospects the Red Sox have had in quite awhile. And yeah, we'll be rooting like hell for him and quite willing to bow down to you if he winds up the second coming of Bob Feller or however you make him sound. He's a heckuva a prospect but the overstatements make one want to roll his eyes.
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Post by cologneredsox on Sept 13, 2016 7:50:05 GMT -5
This is one of the rare cases where being to optimistic instead of being to pessimistic has led to the charge of someone being a troll.
While I think dj is unreasonable myself and could get by well without some of his posts, especially after there were well argumented counter arguments made, I think to call him a troll is a little bit to much. As is the demand for a new post about Kopech. The whole community (at least those who've been arguing here, greats such as jimed) could have done a better job. Let the guy be passionate. I for one am looking forward to his development. There's no denying he has huge potential (and so far not the best makeup) Let's see what he makes of it.
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Post by jdb on Sept 13, 2016 8:25:43 GMT -5
It's what happens when Julio Teheran turns back into Julio Teheran.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 13, 2016 8:59:56 GMT -5
Punching someone MAY be wrong, but certainly not always. Have you never been in a fight? Have you never lost your temper with some knucklehead, or had to defend yourself or someone else?? This may become rare with age but fistfights are common among kids, and are preferable by far to knives, guns and other weapons. On this, IMO, Kopech gets a pass. If it is a pattern, he doesn't. I have not seen a pattern Sorry, but this isn't some kid on the playground. There's no excuse for it, even if you were punched first you walk away. And you especially do that if you are a top prospect trying to make it to the big leagues. And you even more especially do it when you just missed half your first season for another mistake you made. I'm not saying he's a lost cause but to try to even excuse it and not out the blame entirely on him is just misguided and it's often times that type of attitude these kids and those surrounding them have. Always looking to make an excuse for something rather than taking responsibility. If someone is ready to take responsibility for their actions those things don't happen because they've prepared themselves for it and put themselves in the right mindset to succeed. As a coach I'm around a lot of families and there's distinct differences between two groups. One knows they can't control everything but takes responsibility by accepting, adapting and learning from each situation and figuring out what they can do better in the future and helps their children grow from adversity. The other expects things to just be perfect and go their way then when it doesn't it is someone else's fault. Let's not try to make excuses for why he punched a teammate in the face. Yes, we don't know the situation in detail but there is next to no situation that makes it justified. At the same time, lets not cast aspersions on him like he's some degenerate because of his poor decision. Side note: since this post is already days late and has babbled on. I'm not sure how old you are but yes you are right there used to be fist fights between kids a lot more often than there are now. You can even argue back in the day that had a lot of positives. In the simplest of ways for a complex analysis: kids fought, got tougher and squashed their issues and moved on. Now a days kids are wusses and their parents baby them etc. however, now a days kids don't bring fists to a fight. If you are lucky they bring a stick or a bat but likely it's a knife or a gun. It's a lousy society in that regard these days. I'm not typically one of these people but i think video games and social media has a lot to do with that.
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Post by bobsacamento on Sept 13, 2016 11:12:17 GMT -5
He punched a teammate in the face. That is doing something wrong. I'm sure you understand that it could have been self-defense, or provocation, or any number of other mitigating circumstances. We have no evidence to say he did anything wrong. Notably, the Red Sox did not take any disciplinary action against Kopech. I haven't been able to find who the other player was. Although he was said to be a very good friend of Kopech's. But Heyman wrote that a scout he talked to said the other fellow had it coming. From what I heard from a couple of the GCL players this spring was that Kopech and few of the guys were out on the town in Ft. Myers and were close to breaking curfew. Kopech didn't want to get in trouble, one other friend/player didn't want to leave, so Mr. 105 decked him to get him in the vehicle. Apparently he never watched Bull Durham b/c when you get in a fight with a drunk, you never punch with your punch with your hand.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 13, 2016 11:28:02 GMT -5
Punching someone MAY be wrong, but certainly not always. Have you never been in a fight? Have you never lost your temper with some knucklehead, or had to defend yourself or someone else?? This may become rare with age but fistfights are common among kids, and are preferable by far to knives, guns and other weapons. On this, IMO, Kopech gets a pass. If it is a pattern, he doesn't. I have not seen a pattern Sorry, but this isn't some kid on the playground. There's no excuse for it, even if you were punched first you walk away. And you especially do that if you are a top prospect trying to make it to the big leagues. And you even more especially do it when you just missed half your first season for another mistake you made. I'm not saying he's a lost cause but to try to even excuse it and not out the blame entirely on him is just misguided and it's often times that type of attitude these kids and those surrounding them have. Always looking to make an excuse for something rather than taking responsibility. If someone is ready to take responsibility for their actions those things don't happen because they've prepared themselves for it and put themselves in the right mindset to succeed. As a coach I'm around a lot of families and there's distinct differences between two groups. One knows they can't control everything but takes responsibility by accepting, adapting and learning from each situation and figuring out what they can do better in the future and helps their children grow from adversity. The other expects things to just be perfect and go their way then when it doesn't it is someone else's fault. Let's not try to make excuses for why he punched a teammate in the face. Yes, we don't know the situation in detail but there is next to no situation that makes it justified. At the same time, lets not cast aspersions on him like he's some degenerate because of his poor decision. Side note: since this post is already days late and has babbled on. I'm not sure how old you are but yes you are right there used to be fist fights between kids a lot more often than there are now. You can even argue back in the day that had a lot of positives. In the simplest of ways for a complex analysis: kids fought, got tougher and squashed their issues and moved on. Now a days kids are wusses and their parents baby them etc. however, now a days kids don't bring fists to a fight. If you are lucky they bring a stick or a bat but likely it's a knife or a gun. It's a lousy society in that regard these days. I'm not typically one of these people but i think video games and social media has a lot to do with that.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 13, 2016 14:29:16 GMT -5
Punching someone MAY be wrong, but certainly not always. Have you never been in a fight? Have you never lost your temper with some knucklehead, or had to defend yourself or someone else?? This may become rare with age but fistfights are common among kids, and are preferable by far to knives, guns and other weapons. On this, IMO, Kopech gets a pass. If it is a pattern, he doesn't. I have not seen a pattern Sorry, but this isn't some kid on the playground. There's no excuse for it, even if you were punched first you walk away. And you especially do that if you are a top prospect trying to make it to the big leagues. And you even more especially do it when you just missed half your first season for another mistake you made. I'm not saying he's a lost cause but to try to even excuse it and not out the blame entirely on him is just misguided and it's often times that type of attitude these kids and those surrounding them have. Always looking to make an excuse for something rather than taking responsibility. If someone is ready to take responsibility for their actions those things don't happen because they've prepared themselves for it and put themselves in the right mindset to succeed. As a coach I'm around a lot of families and there's distinct differences between two groups. One knows they can't control everything but takes responsibility by accepting, adapting and learning from each situation and figuring out what they can do better in the future and helps their children grow from adversity. The other expects things to just be perfect and go their way then when it doesn't it is someone else's fault. Let's not try to make excuses for why he punched a teammate in the face. Yes, we don't know the situation in detail but there is next to no situation that makes it justified. At the same time, lets not cast aspersions on him like he's some degenerate because of his poor decision. Side note: since this post is already days late and has babbled on. I'm not sure how old you are but yes you are right there used to be fist fights between kids a lot more often than there are now. You can even argue back in the day that had a lot of positives. In the simplest of ways for a complex analysis: kids fought, got tougher and squashed their issues and moved on. Now a days kids are wusses and their parents baby them etc. however, now a days kids don't bring fists to a fight. If you are lucky they bring a stick or a bat but likely it's a knife or a gun. It's a lousy society in that regard these days. I'm not typically one of these people but i think video games and social media has a lot to do with that. I agree with you in general, but don't understand how social media and video-games contribute to this (unless you're implying that kids don't 'get out enough' which would undoubtedly lead to more fist fights and less media use/watching - then i think i agree with you) At the end of the day it clearly shows a lack of maturity by Kopech. Whether the guy deserved it, or whether punching someone is right or wrong is immaterial. Risking a promising future with possibly millions of dollars because you feel like hitting someone is truly immature. If the guy has anger issues (not saying he does) or is just an A-hole(not saying he is) then at least he needs to learn how to punch/kick with other body parts. Additionally the positive test for a banned substance is shouldn't happen as he should be asking a trainer/physician for approval before ingesting ANYTHING he could pickup at a GNC. Clearly he's immature, but he's also young so immaturity is more the norm than the exception. Hopefully he grows up and becomes a great pitcher for the Red Sox. (can anyone confirm that MiLB teams have personnel to approve supplements?)
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 13, 2016 15:11:03 GMT -5
I more meant with regards to the violence of bringing weapons out to fist fight... I by no means thinks it's the sole reason but just that they contribute because so many kids are just detached from reality because they live their lives thru the reality prism.
I don't blame those things and don't think that kids shouldn't use them but it can have an effect.
Of course it comes down to the patenting more so than anything. So maybe it's unfair to place blame on those things when there's an even further underlying problem
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 13, 2016 15:41:50 GMT -5
Unless someone has something new to bring the the discussion on the Kopech spring training incident - in other words, something that's not an opinion or that has already been reported/said here or in the news - let's move on.
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Post by borisman on Sept 19, 2016 13:13:40 GMT -5
Why doesn't deepjohn have a new avatar yet?
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Post by jmei on Sept 19, 2016 13:17:31 GMT -5
Why doesn't deepjohn have a new avatar yet? Major league season isn't quite over yet. I'll wait to count my chickens when they hatch.
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Post by Gwell55 on Sept 19, 2016 13:26:02 GMT -5
Why doesn't deepjohn have a new avatar yet? Major league season isn't quite over yet. I'll wait to count my chickens when they hatch. LOL Out west for DJ the saying would go something like this ... A deeply dug outhouse will be coming to a neighborhood near you soon ...
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Post by larrycook on Sept 19, 2016 22:21:38 GMT -5
Kopech still has command and control issues to work out as well as some significant refining of a third pitch.
His stuff is off the charts good, but he is not ready for the big leagues.
I am very excited to see him pitch next season though.
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Post by borisman on Sept 20, 2016 6:20:59 GMT -5
Why doesn't deepjohn have a new avatar yet? Major league season isn't quite over yet. I'll wait to count my chickens when they hatch. You should probably come up with a few avatars and have the board vote on which one dj will sport. haha
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Post by telson13 on Nov 15, 2016 0:34:30 GMT -5
Nice article by Stan Grossfeld in the Globe: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/11/14/sox-prospect-michael-kopech-believes-controversies-are-behind-him/xlhEICxDqdvsLsuRPbak2I/story.htmlKey point: Kopech is still *very* young, and will be very young at the time of his debut, which I peg at next August. That is pretty aggressive, but I think he's going to come on strong next year. I also think they'll put him in the 'pen at year's end due to innings/limited rotation space, and because he could be a huge playoff weapon there. I think he'll dominate AA until late June, get bumped, and have a strong enough run in Pawtucket to justify promotion. ROY 2018. Edit: can't wait to see his pitch f/x out of the bullpen. With Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, and maybe Kopech, that's four guys in the bullpen sitting 96-100. All the more reason to...BRING BACK KOJI!
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 15, 2016 10:00:52 GMT -5
Nice article by Stan Grossfeld in the Globe: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/11/14/sox-prospect-michael-kopech-believes-controversies-are-behind-him/xlhEICxDqdvsLsuRPbak2I/story.htmlKey point: Kopech is still *very* young, and will be very young at the time of his debut, which I peg at next August. That is pretty aggressive, but I think he's going to come on strong next year. I also think they'll put him in the 'pen at year's end due to innings/limited rotation space, and because he could be a huge playoff weapon there. I think he'll dominate AA until late June, get bumped, and have a strong enough run in Pawtucket to justify promotion. ROY 2018. Edit: can't wait to see his pitch f/x out of the bullpen. With Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, and maybe Kopech, that's four guys in the bullpen sitting 96-100. All the more reason to...BRING BACK KOJI! You think of a post-season bullpen featuring the K Gang: Kimbrel, Kopech, Kelly, and "K"arson Smith ... it's puzzling why DDo is not targeting a high-leverage capable lefty as an acquisition. And since he'd replace Abad (you don't want or need three lefties out there), that leaves a roster spot for Koji. A post-season bullpen of Kimbrel, Kopech, Kelly, Koji, "K"arson, new LHR stud, Ross, and Wright as the long man would be pretty fierce.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 15, 2016 11:02:32 GMT -5
Nice article by Stan Grossfeld in the Globe: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/11/14/sox-prospect-michael-kopech-believes-controversies-are-behind-him/xlhEICxDqdvsLsuRPbak2I/story.htmlKey point: Kopech is still *very* young, and will be very young at the time of his debut, which I peg at next August. That is pretty aggressive, but I think he's going to come on strong next year. I also think they'll put him in the 'pen at year's end due to innings/limited rotation space, and because he could be a huge playoff weapon there. I think he'll dominate AA until late June, get bumped, and have a strong enough run in Pawtucket to justify promotion. ROY 2018. Edit: can't wait to see his pitch f/x out of the bullpen. With Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, and maybe Kopech, that's four guys in the bullpen sitting 96-100. All the more reason to...BRING BACK KOJI! “I like to throw up and in,” he said. “The name of the game is disrupting hitters’ timing and making them uncomfortable. The No. 1 thing to make a hitter uncomfortable is 98 at the shoulders. I’m not necessarily trying to hit anybody, but if they don’t get out of the way, I don’t think it’s my fault.” I love this guy already.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 15, 2016 11:09:39 GMT -5
Nice article by Stan Grossfeld in the Globe: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/11/14/sox-prospect-michael-kopech-believes-controversies-are-behind-him/xlhEICxDqdvsLsuRPbak2I/story.htmlKey point: Kopech is still *very* young, and will be very young at the time of his debut, which I peg at next August. That is pretty aggressive, but I think he's going to come on strong next year. I also think they'll put him in the 'pen at year's end due to innings/limited rotation space, and because he could be a huge playoff weapon there. I think he'll dominate AA until late June, get bumped, and have a strong enough run in Pawtucket to justify promotion. ROY 2018. Edit: can't wait to see his pitch f/x out of the bullpen. With Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, and maybe Kopech, that's four guys in the bullpen sitting 96-100. All the more reason to...BRING BACK KOJI! “I like to throw up and in,” he said. “The name of the game is disrupting hitters’ timing and making them uncomfortable. The No. 1 thing to make a hitter uncomfortable is 98 at the shoulders. I’m not necessarily trying to hit anybody, but if they don’t get out of the way, I don’t think it’s my fault.” I love this guy already. The article definitely gives you a different perspective.
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Post by deepjohn on Nov 15, 2016 11:39:53 GMT -5
Nice article by Stan Grossfeld in the Globe: www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/11/14/sox-prospect-michael-kopech-believes-controversies-are-behind-him/xlhEICxDqdvsLsuRPbak2I/story.htmlKey point: Kopech is still *very* young, and will be very young at the time of his debut, which I peg at next August. That is pretty aggressive, but I think he's going to come on strong next year. I also think they'll put him in the 'pen at year's end due to innings/limited rotation space, and because he could be a huge playoff weapon there. I think he'll dominate AA until late June, get bumped, and have a strong enough run in Pawtucket to justify promotion. ROY 2018. Edit: can't wait to see his pitch f/x out of the bullpen. With Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, and maybe Kopech, that's four guys in the bullpen sitting 96-100. All the more reason to...BRING BACK KOJI! You think of a post-season bullpen featuring the K Gang: Kimbrel, Kopech, Kelly, and "K"arson Smith ... it's puzzling why DDo is not targeting a high-leverage capable lefty as an acquisition. And since he'd replace Abad (you don't want or need three lefties out there), that leaves a roster spot for Koji. A post-season bullpen of Kimbrel, Kopech, Kelly, Koji, "K"arson, new LHR stud, Ross, and Wright as the long man would be pretty fierce. I think he has Pomeranz for a high leverage lefty in the post season. It didn't work out last year with the Coco Crisp homer (which I thought was a fluke outside the zone), but Pomeranz does have the tools for it. I've changed my mind (not) and expect Kopech will be dominant (assuming he stays healthy) and they won't be able to keep him down. I think he projects to be their best starter in 2017, and that's saying something. Sort of in the mode of Felix Hernandez, Doc Gooden, and the select group of 20/21 year old pitchers who have made the jump with K/BB ratio of 3 -- what Bill James called the José Fernandez family. The next question will be, with stellar Buchholz back, who gets bumped from the rotation when Kopech comes up?
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