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MLB investigation Espinoza trade
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 16, 2016 12:00:38 GMT -5
Well I just read that Gammons said that this was only the punishment for the Red Sox trade and not for the others. There is more to come, and probably much more. So I'm ok for now.
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Post by jmei on Sept 16, 2016 12:09:48 GMT -5
Fair enough, and I tend to agree that toradol is the likely candidate. Do you think that affects the Red Sox decision-making process? Honest question. Why do you (and others) have such a cavalier "buyer beware" attitude about this? The FO decision making process has really nothing to with it. They broke league wide protocols that teams rely on to make big financial / planning decisions. It's complete fraudulant behavior, and the best people can come up with is a silly commercial. You guys are about as deep as a puddle of water on this one, and I say that with the respect that often you (and others) get into the details heavily. MLB interests here, IMO, was to quash this by "rogue" behavior logic. Because we understand the fundamental principles of justice? Remember, we're only talking about this in the context of whether the Red Sox should be compensated, not how the Padres should be punished. The Padres absolutely should be punished on top of that to deter this kind of behavior from them and others going forward, they have indeed been punished, and they are likely to receive additional punishment.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 16, 2016 12:24:35 GMT -5
I'm often at odds with FanGraph's Dave Cameron, but I'm down with this part of his latest take: I'll bet that this isn't the last we've heard about the Padre's business model. Absurd is the nice word for it. If they're throwing that stuff around it's pure bullshit. Preller seems to have fit himself comfortably into the darker underbelly of a city that's a bit of an enigma. In spite of, or perhaps because of, it's near perfect weather, it has attracted some, ahem, interesting characters. My go-to urban historian and a writer with few modern peers is Mike Davis. If you've got the time and inclination, I'd suggest this blistering take from a book Davis co-authored about American's finest city.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 16, 2016 13:04:15 GMT -5
Because we understand the fundamental principles of justice? Remember, we're only talking about this in the context of whether the Red Sox should be compensated, not how the Padres should be punished. The Padres absolutely should be punished on top of that to deter this kind of behavior from them and others going forward, they have indeed been punished, and they are likely to receive additional punishment. I am sure you are aware that justice can include punishment and compensation...i.e. jail sentence and a fine....community service and fine.. i agree we are only talking about Red Sox compensation....and a big deterrent for this activity would be a transfer of draft picks to the injured party. That will never happen, I know, I just don't like the idea that any team, not just the Sox, can treated in this duplicitous fashion without direct reparations to the aggrieved party.
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Post by jmei on Sept 16, 2016 13:24:36 GMT -5
Right, but, typically, the punishment (jail time, fines, etc.) represents criminal penalties that are separate from the civil penalties that are meant to compensate the counterparty. In this case, the punishment has come in the form of the 30-day suspension of Preller and likely additional suspensions, fines, etc. That's where the bulk of the deterrent will come from.
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sdl
Rookie
Who the hell is Stan Papi?
Posts: 135
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Post by sdl on Sept 16, 2016 13:27:05 GMT -5
I'm often at odds with FanGraph's Dave Cameron, but I'm down with this part of his latest take: I'll bet that this isn't the last we've heard about the Padre's business model. Absurd is the nice word for it. If they're throwing that stuff around it's pure bullshit. Preller seems to have fit himself comfortably into the darker underbelly of a city that's a bit of an enigma. In spite of, or perhaps because of, it's near perfect weather, it has attracted some, ahem, interesting characters. My go-to urban historian and a writer with few modern peers is Mike Davis. If you've got the time and inclination, I'd suggest this blistering take from a book Davis co-authored about American's finest city. I know what that area is like. 25 years ago, I did a semester of graduate work at San Diego State
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 16, 2016 13:28:08 GMT -5
For one I think 30 days for GM at end of year is a very lite punishment. Second MLB needs to come down hard on the team with a huge fine and loss of a first round pick if not more.
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Post by amfox1 on Sept 16, 2016 13:39:06 GMT -5
i agree we are only talking about Red Sox compensation....and a big deterrent for this activity would be a transfer of draft picks to the injured party. That will never happen, I know, I just don't like the idea that any team, not just the Sox, can treated in this duplicitous fashion without direct reparations to the aggrieved party. As you said, there is no chance the Red Sox will get compensation, although I agree that SD should have been punished more severely (ie, forfeiture of draft pick or suspension during a more critical period of the offseason). I disagree with those wishcasting for additional compensation for BOS. Still watching carefully to see what the STL punishment is in the hacking scandal.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Sept 16, 2016 13:41:17 GMT -5
Essentially the Padres kept two sets of medical records and intentionally defrauded other teams. This is a slap on to the wrist punishment for Preller and Padres. Also, still waiting for news about Cardinals' punishment for hacking into Astros player evaluation system.
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Post by Gwell55 on Sept 16, 2016 15:28:12 GMT -5
For one I think 30 days for GM at end of year is a very lite punishment. Second MLB needs to come down hard on the team with a huge fine and loss of a first round pick if not more. Why not go with the padres have to lose all the prospects they got in the trades and they immediately become eligible to sign with any other team except the padres and they can't make a trade for the next two years...
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Sept 16, 2016 16:29:16 GMT -5
For one I think 30 days for GM at end of year is a very lite punishment. Second MLB needs to come down hard on the team with a huge fine and loss of a first round pick if not more. Why not go with the padres have to lose all the prospects they got in the trades and they immediately become eligible to sign with any other team except the padres and they can't make a trade for the next two years... As long as they employ Preller no team is going to trade with the Padres anyway. They probably are biding their time until the Cubs season is over and then pursuing McLeod.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 16, 2016 17:10:20 GMT -5
We'll see ... the Sox case seems - without any real information - to be a mild one. The Colin Rea situation, for instance, seems a lot more severe in its effects.
So I'd be really surprised if this were the end of the punishments for the Padres. This is such a fundamental issue to the proper working of the league - and such an obvious F- You to the league - that it seems like there will be much more severe penalties to come. There's simply no way this was anything but what it appears to be: an obvious, transparent attempt to circumvent the rules of the league to create unfair advantages for the Padres and screw over the rest of the teams. It's so egregious and so slimy that Preller personally should get a much more severe penalty, and the Padres on top of that.
Personally, I'd kick Preller out for a year and dock the Padres multiple draft picks.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2016 17:13:06 GMT -5
So Preller gets suspended right around a time where a GM for a non playoff contender isn't really all that active in September and October.
While the Sox lose a year of not being able to sign young players and lose prospects.
Is MLB becoming the NFL 2.0?
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Post by Coreno on Sept 16, 2016 20:56:50 GMT -5
A bunch of the beat guys are now saying that the sox are disappointed with the decision and apparently feel they deserve compensation. This is pretty different from what we had heard previously.
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Post by bigpupp on Sept 16, 2016 21:04:05 GMT -5
A bunch of the beat guys are now saying that the sox are disappointed with the decision and apparently feel they deserve compensation. This is pretty different from what we had heard previously. Yeah, I was surprised to see Warner say he was "extremely disappointed," given what we had heard up until then. Not sure how I feel about all of this, but it's going to be interesting to hear the leaks that will assuredly happen in the coming months.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 16, 2016 21:30:10 GMT -5
For one I think 30 days for GM at end of year is a very lite punishment. Second MLB needs to come down hard on the team with a huge fine and loss of a first round pick if not more. Agreed. While I'd like to see the Sox (and other teams) compensated, I would be OK even if they weren't if there were serious consequences like you describe. The idea that it was a "mistake" is so laughably ludicrous as to be beyond absurd. If anything, they should be punished further for continuing to lie. Compare this with the penalty the Sox got for their questionable 7/2 practice (which is apparently common, a la the Pats' videotaping incident), and it's hard to see any semblance of fairness, or justice, here.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 16, 2016 21:34:04 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Sept 17, 2016 2:53:59 GMT -5
So Preller gets suspended right around a time where a GM for a non playoff contender isn't really all that active in September and October. While the Sox lose a year of not being able to sign young players and lose prospects. Is MLB becoming the NFL 2.0? Yes, apparently so.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 17, 2016 7:03:27 GMT -5
Right, but, typically, the punishment (jail time, fines, etc.) represents criminal penalties that are separate from the civil penalties that are meant to compensate the counterparty. In this case, the punishment has come in the form of the 30-day suspension of Preller and likely additional suspensions, fines, etc. That's where the bulk of the deterrent will come from. There is such a thing as punative damages in a civil context.
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Post by jmei on Sept 17, 2016 8:48:55 GMT -5
Correct, but they are typically not awarded in contract disputes (which this essentially is) or in instances where there is parallel criminal prosecution.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 17, 2016 9:08:59 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 17, 2016 10:22:27 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this. I am also glad to hear the Sox are upset and they sought additional compensation or assets. IMO, Manfred has totally failed here.
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sdl
Rookie
Who the hell is Stan Papi?
Posts: 135
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Post by sdl on Sept 17, 2016 10:35:55 GMT -5
I would seek the courts. Manfred failed. Return Espinoza and the Padres give us another player as well (or a 2017 draft pick). We can send them Craig and maybe Trey Ball. I can live with that.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 17, 2016 10:50:16 GMT -5
I would seek the courts. Manfred failed. Return Espinoza and the Padres give us another player as well (or a 2017 draft pick). We can send them Craig and maybe Trey Ball. I can live with that. That's not happening. Really, McCann did seem to agree the Sox should get some for of compensation, but that looked unlikely right now. While the courts might be an option, it is highly unlikely the Sox go that route and even less likely that it would succeed.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 17, 2016 11:07:17 GMT -5
The more I hear about this, the more it annoys me. The Padres' "oopsie" defense is shameful, arrogant in its lack of accountability. There's no way this was anything but a deliberate attempt to defraud their trading partners.
Again, it's hard to really know what the remedy for the Red Sox should be, if any, without knowing the particulars of Pomeranz's situation. His health condition may not have been too material. But there was some injury done, for sure, but even more, the Padres should be slammed, fined severely and their competitive assets penalized (draft pick or player). I don't like the "imagine if the Red Sox had done this," but in this case, if there are not far harsher penalties coming, the Padres are getting away with something just because they are low-profile as a franchise. If the Sox had done this, it'd be the subject of countless tedious ESPN "takes" and the pressure would be much greater to do something.
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