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Post by bigpupp on Sept 19, 2016 21:17:42 GMT -5
Again..to all the Trout homers out there....the MVP is not the best player award....it's the Most Valuable Player, and that is Mookie. Just ask the Orioles, whom he has almost singlehandedly kept out of first place. Just because a few sports writers have translated "Most Valuable Player" to mean "Most Valuable Player on a contending team" doesn't mean it's accurate. Trout is the most valuable player in baseball no matter how bad the team is that surrounds him.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 19, 2016 21:22:18 GMT -5
I know the answer, but am going to ask the question anyhow. Why not Ortiz for MVP? The simple answer, and I'm certainly not diminishing Papi's contribution, is that he is a one dimensional player. You have only to look at Mookie's two remarkable catches last night which kept his team in the game, as evidence of how he does it all with the bat and the glove. Unfortunately, this factor will always dog Designated Hitters when the MVP vote comes around.
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Post by brendan98 on Sept 19, 2016 21:23:08 GMT -5
I know the answer, but am going to ask the question anyhow. Why not Ortiz for MVP? Provides 0 value in the field, so it's hard to keep up with other players' value to their team. He's been great, but not the best. Like I said, I know the answer, but playing devils advocate, he's been the best offensive player in the game, and I think there can be more than a few sentimental votes for him as well.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Sept 19, 2016 21:24:03 GMT -5
So would I. But the best part is not that Mookie and Porcello should win, but that they could win. Like they elevated themselves to a standard where the best hitter and the best pitcher in the league are better than they are, but not by an insane amount. Kluber has been better than Porcello, sure, but it's not a gigantic gulf, it's very very close. Same goes for Mookie. It's been awesome. Agreed about Porcello, but I don't know about Mookie being very very close to Trout. Trout is just on another planet all by himself. If they give the MVP to earthlings then Mookie deserves it. It's closer than you may think. It's really just the walks that separate them. Mookie is comparable in most other major categories, strikes out a lot less and plays better defense. Not enough to bridge the gap, but it's at least a reasonable discussion to have.
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pd
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Post by pd on Sept 19, 2016 21:32:09 GMT -5
Ace. #1 Starter. Porcello deserves both of these.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 19, 2016 21:51:13 GMT -5
Again..to all the Trout homers out there....the MVP is not the best player award....it's the Most Valuable Player, and that is Mookie. Just ask the Orioles, whom he has almost singlehandedly kept out of first place. Just because a few sports writers have translated "Most Valuable Player" to mean "Most Valuable Player on a contending team" doesn't mean it's accurate. Trout is the most valuable player in baseball no matter how bad the team is that surrounds him. yet, trout compiles numbers that don't have any effect on a playoff race, but Mookie makes 2 highlite catches and hits a 2 run homerun on consecutive nights against division rival...playoff contending teams. You got your interpretation...I got mine.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 19, 2016 22:12:52 GMT -5
Another interesting stat - Kluber 7 wins after a loss. Porcello - 9 wins after a loss. Porcello is my Cy winner. As for MVP - flip the coin - Betts/Trout.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 19, 2016 22:12:58 GMT -5
I am amazed that Ortiz still has his bat speed. He is incredible.
You have to wonder if holt should be playing, he just does not look right when he is in th batter's box.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 19, 2016 23:03:58 GMT -5
Great clutch complete game victory for Rick Porcello tonight. He hardly broke a sweat - 89 pitches in 9 innings.
It makes for a fresh bullpen tomorrow helping increase their odds of winning tomorrow's game, something I don't know that the analytical stats take into account. The amount of innings he throws is huge and that's because he throws nothing but strikes. It's almost as if he'd rather give up a solo HR than walk a guy - like the Adam Jones AB where he fell behind 2-0.
Porcello has been phenomenal. I liked the deal when they got him but I wasn't convinced he was more than a decent #4 starter. He has certainly convinced me now. He's a top of the rotation starter now. Kudos to Ben Cherington for the deal and the foresight to sign him to a big contract - something that many, myself included, questioned or wondered if it was the right thing to do. I justified it by saying that $20 million/year for a #3 starter is the going rate - that it takes $30 million/year to get a true ace. Turned out they got a bargain with Porcello.
Meanwhile Betts kills the Orioles at Camden and Big Papi has tied the record with Dave Kingman for most homers in a final season, the only thing he'd have in common with Dave Kingman.
The win was huge because now all the Sox have to do is win one of the next three and the Orioles gain no ground and watch 4 more games tick off the schedule with no more regular season opportunities to play the Red Sox left. And if the Sox win two of the next three, the division race with the Orioles is over and depending on what the Jays do, it could be over for them too.
It feels like they're a different team since Hanley walked off the Yankees on Thursday.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 20, 2016 2:04:21 GMT -5
Again..to all the Trout homers out there....the MVP is not the best player award....it's the Most Valuable Player, and that is Mookie. Just ask the Orioles, whom he has almost singlehandedly kept out of first place. Just because a few sports writers have translated "Most Valuable Player" to mean "Most Valuable Player on a contending team" doesn't mean it's accurate. Trout is the most valuable player in baseball no matter how bad the team is that surrounds him. You're stranded on a desert island. Which one of these things is more valuable? 1) $400 worth of food and water 2) $500 in cash There is a perfectly ordinary meaning of the word "valuable" that includes context. That's the meaning that most (not a few) BBWA voters have used throughout the years. The Angels' season was a disaster with or without Trout; he was cash on a desert island. I do agree with the notion that Mike Trout should retire with a room full of trophies. There should be a single, prestigious, player of the year award, for all of MLB, separate from the two MVP awards. Name it after Ruth.
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Post by telluricrook on Sept 20, 2016 2:21:52 GMT -5
Mike Trout plays in games that dont even matter. Teams probably dont even take him as a real threat when the Angels are gettin their *** kicked all the time.
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Post by telluricrook on Sept 20, 2016 2:35:00 GMT -5
Kevin Gauseman has to put up a stinker at some point. Or at least give up some runs. If he repeats his last performance I will be pissed.
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Post by telluricrook on Sept 20, 2016 2:49:06 GMT -5
The Red Sox have passed the Cubs for the best odds to win the world series according to Fangraphs.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 20, 2016 7:17:59 GMT -5
Mike Trout plays in games that dont even matter. Teams probably dont even take him as a real threat when the Angels are gettin their *** kicked all the time. Honest question: do you think it's easier to maintain the drive to play well on a good team in contention or a crummy one that's out of the race in late May? Also, the idea that teams don't take Mike Trout as a real threat is the most hilarious assertion I've seen on this board, and I read the entire Michael Kopech thread just now to double-check. Come on. Betts' accomplishments stand on their own. You don't need to denegrate Mike Trout, who is already one of the half-dozen best players I've ever seen, to build Betts up.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 20, 2016 8:14:41 GMT -5
I'm just happy about being 4 games up.
Keep it rolling!
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Post by jchang on Sept 20, 2016 9:31:27 GMT -5
I suppose we could ask the mods to move all this to the Price/Porcello Cy Young thread. Let have the hammer, nail and coffin ready for the O's division hopes. oh yeah, playoffs are made with wins, not advanced stats Trout was tops in bWAR 2012-15 + this year, and only got 1 MVP,
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 20, 2016 10:31:42 GMT -5
bWAR update:
Trout 9.9 Mookie 8.7 Altuve 7.7 Donaldson 6.7
So by baseballs stupid unwritten prerequisite of being on a playoff team, Mookie is separating himself.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 20, 2016 10:36:31 GMT -5
I suppose we could ask the mods to move all this to the Price/Porcello Cy Young thread. Let have the hammer, nail and coffin ready for the O's division hopes. oh yeah, playoffs are made with wins, not advanced stats Trout was tops in bWAR 2012-15 + this year, and only got 1 MVP, Well that is an entirely different topic, Trout should have received more than one MVP. in fact, while I appreciate Mookie Betts, and firmly believe that he is having the second best year of anyone in the majors, if I had an MVP vote, I'd give it to Trout.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 20, 2016 10:37:57 GMT -5
bWAR update: Trout 9.9 Mookie 8.7 Altuve 7.7 Donaldson 6.7 So by baseballs stupid unwritten prerequisite of being on a playoff team, Mookie is separating himself. Additionally, if making the playoffs is a prequiste, Altuve should not be in the conversation.
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Post by jmei on Sept 20, 2016 10:46:47 GMT -5
I moved all the Porcello/Cy Young discussion to that thread.
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 20, 2016 11:02:28 GMT -5
Also, the idea that teams don't take Mike Trout as a real threat is the most hilarious assertion I've seen on this board, and I read the entire Michael Kopech thread just now to double-check. Try the "Red Sox trade Margot et al. for Craig Kimbrel" thread. Or just do a search for all of deepjohn's posts.
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Post by jchang on Sept 20, 2016 11:08:06 GMT -5
Life has not been fair to Trout in the MVP awards, he must console himself with his current 144M contract and probably another 300M after that. But following the pattern of the MVP going to one of the best players on a contending team, Mookie it is!
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 20, 2016 11:14:23 GMT -5
Also, the idea that teams don't take Mike Trout as a real threat is the most hilarious assertion I've seen on this board, and I read the entire Michael Kopech thread just now to double-check. Try the "Red Sox trade Margot et al. for Craig Kimbrel" thread. Or just do a search for all of deepjohn's posts. Even those. Like, take deepjohn's assertion that Kopech is an average-to-above major league starter right now. Who is an average major league starting pitcher... Tom Koehler? Late-career Adam Wainwright? The difference between Kopech and one of those dudes is much smaller than the difference between Mike Trout and a player who isn't taken as a real threat. Trout already has a higher career bWAR than Joey Votto and Evan Longoria.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 20, 2016 12:00:25 GMT -5
Mike Trout is very likely reaching 60 bWAR before he turns 26. I think some people underrate just how ridiculous he is.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Sept 20, 2016 12:32:31 GMT -5
TBH, I am a bit concerned about tonight. E-Rod and Pomz haven't looked good. I actually have more confidence in Buchholz at this point. Can we throw a "bullpen day" on Pomz' next start? Even if E-Rod gives up 5 or 6 runs tonight, hopefully he can give us 5 or 6 IP.
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