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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 11:39:25 GMT -5
What is sad is this used to be a very good board to talk and learn about the Sox and Sox prospects. Tomorrow is opening day and no real talk going on, just some really boorish behavior.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 2, 2017 12:28:13 GMT -5
I'm very happy the season is starting and we get to see the results of the trades, etc. This board has been very depressing with so much negativity - more than any year that I can recall. The constant attacks on Dombrowski are just ridiculous. Now we get to see the results of his trades and I am of the opinion that they will be better than many think. Yeah when this team wins 88 games everyone is going to be really calm and reasonable about it. I'm not a fan of how they're trying to win now, but I still think that's about as likely as winning 100. The problem is that they could win 100 games for the next 3 years and still not win a World Series. But they should have a better shot than most teams to win now and I guess that's the goal. A lot of things have to go wrong for them to only win 88, like having 4 pitchers on the DL to start the season.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,981
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Post by jimoh on Apr 2, 2017 13:22:47 GMT -5
What is sad is this used to be a very good board to talk and learn about the Sox and Sox prospects. Tomorrow is opening day and no real talk going on, just some really boorish behavior. Some boorish behavior, and lot of repetition. When the Sox make a move, it's great to read how people like or dislike the move, and why. But so so many posts are "Let me remind you once again that I did not like that move they made last year."
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Post by telson13 on Apr 2, 2017 14:12:23 GMT -5
He held onto Betts, Bradley, Boegarts, Benindenti, Swihart, Vasquez, Devers, Groome, Travis, Dalbec, Hernandez, Erod, Barnes, Owens, Johnson, Hembree, etc. just looking for facts to be stated accurately. So you are so knowledgeable right now to know the returns are underwhelming and what they gave up is to much, revisit it in a couple years when more is known. What makes me laugh is posters who think they know more then lifetime baseball people. You do not know what goes on behind the scenes. He traded Travis, who was at best a borderline prospect with essentially no value, after he had (to Travis's credit) established value at the MLB level. Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart, JBJ, ERod, Hembree, and Barnes were already MLB players with (some partially) established roles on the team. They don't qualify as part of the "farm system." Groome and Dalbec were drafted just last summer, he had no opportunity to trade them. You're extolling accuracy while being completely inaccurate. The comment was about the farm system. Yes, 80% was an exaggeration. But it was intended as such, as far as I can tell. Your exaggeration is wholly intentional. The whole "wait and see" argument is what you should be laughing at. If you don't know why that's a logical fallacy, I can't help you. But those "baseball lifers" are infallible, right? Just ask Dave Stewart. A person doesn't need to know the ins and outs of music theory to know when their favorite artist puts out a crappy album. One needn't be an automotive executive to know that the Pontiac Aztek was a silly vehicle. Nor is it necessary to agree 100% with a baseball exec's management style any more than it is to agree 100% with an elected "lifetime" politician. We're all Sox fans, or we wouldn't be here. You should expect some dissent on how the team is being run, because I can guarantee you that "behind the scenes," there's dissent as well.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 14:31:51 GMT -5
Learn the rules they could have traded Dalbec and Groome you no longer have to wait a year. You include Betts, Boegarts etc. because they are part of the young core. I agree you can have dissent the I have not agreed with everything, but the amount of negativity is ridiculous it's baseball.
To compare Dom to Stewart is plain ridiculous, and how do you know at all there is inner strife, are you there?
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 14:37:37 GMT -5
He held onto Betts, Bradley, Boegarts, Benindenti, Swihart, Vasquez, Devers, Groome, Travis, Dalbec, Hernandez, Erod, Barnes, Owens, Johnson, Hembree, etc. just looking for facts to be stated accurately. So you are so knowledgeable right now to know the returns are underwhelming and what they gave up is to much, revisit it in a couple years when more is known. What makes me laugh is posters who think they know more then lifetime baseball people. You do not know what goes on behind the scenes. He traded Travis, who was at best a borderline prospect with essentially no value, after he had (to Travis's credit) established value at the MLB level. Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart, JBJ, ERod, Hembree, and Barnes were already MLB players with (some partially) established roles on the team. They don't qualify as part of the "farm system." Groome and Dalbec were drafted just last summer, he had no opportunity to trade them. You're extolling accuracy while being completely inaccurate. The comment was about the farm system. Yes, 80% was an exaggeration. But it was intended as such, as far as I can tell. Your exaggeration is wholly intentional. The whole "wait and see" argument is what you should be laughing at. If you don't know why that's a logical fallacy, I can't help you. But those "baseball lifers" are infallible, right? Just ask Dave Stewart. A person doesn't need to know the ins and outs of music theory to know when their favorite artist puts out a crappy album. One needn't be an automotive executive to know that the Pontiac Aztek was a silly vehicle. Nor is it necessary to agree 100% with a baseball exec's management style any more than it is to agree 100% with an elected "lifetime" politician. We're all Sox fans, or we wouldn't be here. You should expect some dissent on how the team is being run, because I can guarantee you that "behind the scenes," there's dissent as well. I was talking about Sam Travis not Travis Shaw.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 2, 2017 15:19:50 GMT -5
There will be plenty of time to talk about how DD trades impacted this team short-term and long-term. The thing is no one knows right now and you won't know for like 3 years, maybe longer. The amount of negativity is truly amazing for a team a bunch of people think are world series favorites. ESPN poll had them what third behind Cubs and Indians.
A bunch of you sound like you would rather be an 80 win team with a ton of prospects. Most of which won't help you at all this year and could takes years to reach full potential if they ever do. You would think a bunch of the guys we traded were already in majors dominating by some of your comments. It's funny, that's the exact reason why Ben was fired. He was great at building up the system, not so much at producing a winning team year after year.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 15:31:27 GMT -5
Learn the rules they could have traded Dalbec and Groome you no longer have to wait a year. You include Betts, Boegarts etc. because they are part of the young core. I agree you can have dissent the I have not agreed with everything, but the amount of negativity is ridiculous it's baseball. To compare Dom to Stewart is plain ridiculous, and how do you know at all there is inner strife, are you there? So Dombrowski's first opportunity to trade Betts was after the 2015 season. Betts at that point had 867 MLB plate appearances, in them he had hit .291/.348/.471, and he was about to turn 23. I cannot possibly overstate how easy and obvious a decision it was for Dombrowski to not trade Betts at that point. He gets no credit for that. In fact if anything it raises the question of why the hell Betts hasn't been extended yet.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 15:38:49 GMT -5
You are reaching, of course he could have traded him for a number 1 starter there were rumors of Matt Harvey. Betts has to want an extension you seem to be forgetting that. So far he has kept the right players, time will tell
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 2, 2017 15:39:59 GMT -5
A thought:
Lots of talk about the lack of discussion.
Why not, instead... discuss? Start a thread, throw a thought out there, etc.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 15:48:30 GMT -5
So the defense of Dave Dombrowski at this point is basically that the Red Sox are almost as good as the Cleveland Indians and that no one knows what's going to happen in the future anyway. I am not persuaded.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 15:51:37 GMT -5
So the defense of Dave Dombrowski at this point is basically that the Red Sox are almost as good as the Cleveland Indians and that no one knows what's going to happen in the future anyway. I am not persuaded. I have to ask you a question why do you follow the Sox? Are you rooting for them to lose?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 15:58:52 GMT -5
You are reaching, of course he could have traded him for a number 1 starter there were rumors of Matt Harvey. Betts has to want an extension you seem to be forgetting that. So far he has kept the right players, time will tell Yes, surely those rumors of two high-profile teams swapping their young superstars were indicative of actual trade possibilities.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 15:59:26 GMT -5
So the defense of Dave Dombrowski at this point is basically that the Red Sox are almost as good as the Cleveland Indians and that no one knows what's going to happen in the future anyway. I am not persuaded. I have to ask you a question why do you follow the Sox? Are you rooting for them to lose? If I was rooting for them to lose I'd be a lot happier. I'm sure Yankees fans are ecstatic about Dombrowski. Also, it's a baseball team, not a cult. Unquestioning approval of the organization's actions is not a requirement of fandom.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 16:02:46 GMT -5
I have to ask you a question why do you follow the Sox? Are you rooting for them to lose? If I was rooting for them to lose I'd be a lot happier. I'm sure Yankees fans are ecstatic about Dombrowski. You sir do not understand baseball, I live all around Yankee fans, and believe me they rather be in the Sox shoes. More important to have a good team that competes vs having the number 1 farm system.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 16:04:24 GMT -5
If I was rooting for them to lose I'd be a lot happier. I'm sure Yankees fans are ecstatic about Dombrowski. You sir do not understand baseball, I live all around Yankee fans, and believe me they rather be in the Sox shoes. More important to have a good team that competes vs having the number 1 farm system.I'm quite sure that I do.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 16:04:37 GMT -5
You are reaching, of course he could have traded him for a number 1 starter there were rumors of Matt Harvey. Betts has to want an extension you seem to be forgetting that. So far he has kept the right players, time will tell Yes, surely those rumors of two high-profile teams swapping their young superstars were indicative of actual trade possibilities. How do you know they were not actually trade proposals. I would guess the Sox asked for Harvey or Degrom and the Mets countered with Betts or Boegarts.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 16:05:47 GMT -5
You sir do not understand baseball, I live all around Yankee fans, and believe me they rather be in the Sox shoes. More important to have a good team that competes vs having the number 1 farm system. I'm quite sure that I do. Actually I feel you are clueless, I'm guessing I have forgotten more about baseball then you know.
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Apr 2, 2017 16:06:59 GMT -5
Let's get this season started - if healthy, I really like Boston's chances.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 16:09:18 GMT -5
I'm quite sure that I do. Actually I feel you are clueless, I'm guessing I have forgotten more about baseball then you know. You've forgotten how this team was actually built, that's for sure.
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 16:11:01 GMT -5
Actually I feel you are clueless, I'm guessing I have forgotten more about baseball then you know. You've forgotten how this team was actually built, that's for sure. No I realize how teams should be built I am open to different ways.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 2, 2017 16:12:20 GMT -5
Ok, good talk. This team still has Pablo Sandoval and Mitch Mooreland as it's infield corners by the way.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 2, 2017 16:13:59 GMT -5
So the defense of Dave Dombrowski at this point is basically that the Red Sox are almost as good as the Cleveland Indians and that no one knows what's going to happen in the future anyway. I am not persuaded. So it's not a good thing we are considered the 3rd best team in Baseball? The 3rd best chance at a Championship?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 2, 2017 16:16:32 GMT -5
Ok, good talk. This team still has Pablo Sandoval and Mitch Mooreland as it's infield corners by the way. You don't need all stars at every position!
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Post by fan72 on Apr 2, 2017 16:16:32 GMT -5
I don't know about you but I'm looking forward to Pablo's bounce back season, and I'm happy to have a guy like Moreland who will hit some homers and play great defense. You know they don't need a superstar at every position, don't you?
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