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What to do about Pablo? (7/14 edit: DFAed)
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Post by cba82 on Jul 12, 2017 19:49:00 GMT -5
He apparently has no trade value. His talent level isn't sufficient to ward off career minor leaguers. Compounding the mistake of initially signing him with the mistake of keeping that failure only adds to the misery. Cut ties, play the kids, and let his release show players there's nothing guaranteed if you can't produce. Marrero has a major league glove, while Lin has that and may have the bat to go with it, though we hardly have enough information to go on at this point. So that's a bit of a stretch. I get the point your trying to make but realism, please. I'm not sure I get the point you're trying to make, Norm. Do you not believe that some combination of Lin and Marrero is a legitimate option at third base for the second half? Because I consider that a better option than further weakening the farm system for a rental who would not necessarily produce more wins than the Lin/Marrero combination. I very well could be misreading/misinterpreting your point but, either way, I'd welcome your thoughts on the option of just going with the rookies at third. Thanks.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 12, 2017 21:03:51 GMT -5
Holt and Pablo are coming back. Travis and Lin are going back down.
our best 3B is likely to be Holt, being removed for defense by Marrero in the late innings.
barring injury, they will not be acquiring a 3B at the trade deadline.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 12, 2017 21:08:19 GMT -5
They're not career minor leaguers until they have careers. That's the point I was making. I agree, the team may have a solution for the rest of the season with a platoon, or as you say some combination. I don't think it's even a matter of Sandoval warding them off. He hasn't produced and the team has looked much better with the guys they brought up. They've passed him by as major leaguers. That's the real issue.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 12, 2017 22:35:10 GMT -5
Holt and Pablo are coming back. Travis and Lin are going back down. our best 3B is likely to be Holt, being removed for defense by Marrero in the late innings. barring injury, they will not be acquiring a 3B at the trade deadline. Under this scenario, does Farrell give Pablo any at bats? If so, in what circumstance does Pablo see the plate? And then is Pablo's presence on the bench going to mess with our current team's chemistry?
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Post by cba82 on Jul 13, 2017 5:28:25 GMT -5
They're not career minor leaguers until they have careers. That's the point I was making. I agree, the team may have a solution for the rest of the season with a platoon, or as you say some combination. I don't think it's even a matter of Sandoval warding them off. He hasn't produced and the team has looked much better with the guys they brought up. They've passed him by as major leaguers. That's the real issue. Got it, thanks for clarifying.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 13, 2017 6:35:05 GMT -5
Holt and Pablo are coming back. Travis and Lin are going back down. our best 3B is likely to be Holt, being removed for defense by Marrero in the late innings. barring injury, they will not be acquiring a 3B at the trade deadline. To be fair here though, the Sox might not think Pablo will be able to play in the big leagues anymore according to their evaluations in Pawtucket. That's why this is so interesting, because no one really knows what's going through the Sox thought process when it comes to Sandoval. You're right about Brock Holt however coming back. I'm not sure he's better then Lin. They both are kind of the same player that is a utility player that can play a lot of different positions fairly well. The Sox could still be in the market for a third baseman. Depends on the ask and the price. Like I said though earlier, you can wait until August if you're the Sox if you want a Todd Frazier. Now one is claiming the rest of his salary and he will clear waivers.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 8:05:56 GMT -5
You're right about Brock Holt however coming back. I'm not sure he's better then Lin. Come on. Since the start of 2014 he's hit .272/.335/.377 and he's a better defensive third baseman than Lin. He also much more capable in the outfield. Brock Holt is basically Lin's perfect-world projection. If Holt is healthy again (and I know that's a real "if") then he's one of the best utility players alive. He's stretched some as an every day third baseman and that usage for him is pretty far below optimal, but he's above replacement level there.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 8:20:05 GMT -5
You're right about Brock Holt however coming back. I'm not sure he's better then Lin. Come on. Since the start of 2014 he's hit .272/.335/.377 and he's a better defensive third baseman than Lin. He also much more capable in the outfield. Brock Holt is basically Lin's perfect-world projection. If Holt is healthy again (and I know that's a real "if") then he's one of the best utility players alive. He's stretched some as an every day third baseman and that usage for him is pretty far below optimal, but he's above replacement level there. We're all waiting for Lin to start regressing. 0.7 fWAR in parts of 15 games so far. Getting Holt back would make it much easier to rest guys like Xander and Mookie. I'd send Marrero down if/when Holt gets back.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 8:24:23 GMT -5
If Lin is a true-talent .448 BABIP guy then they should definitely keep him...
I think I keep Marrero because I don't necessarily care as much about him getting consistent ABs and his defense is superb. But Lin's versatility (and the fact that he's arguably already the better overall player) are arguments in his favor.
It also sort of depends on how Farrell constructs the roster. If they're planning on starting Holt like five times a week at third I'd lead Marrero. But if they want him giving rest to more players around the diamond then I'd want Lin to start at third those other days.
EDIT: To make sure we're on topic, this post is a comprehensive discussion of how I would handle the Sandoval situation.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,830
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 8:53:36 GMT -5
We already have the next Pablo in Baldwin. Stout, some power, never walks, plays C and 3B. Out wth the old, in with the new.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 9:36:07 GMT -5
We already have the next Pablo in Baldwin. Stout, some power, never walks, plays C and 3B. Out wth the old, in with the new. Hopefully there will never be another Pablo - the one making $19 million a year. I wouldn't mind Pablo nearly as much if he weren't a free agent signing.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2017 9:38:38 GMT -5
We already have the next Pablo in Baldwin. Stout, some power, never walks, plays C and 3B. Out wth the old, in with the new. Eh, I don't love the comp. Baldwin isn't stout so much as he has kind of a thick lower half (see pic below), he hasn't played any 3B this year (I consider this a positive, fwiw), and is 3 years away in a best-case scenario. Meanwhile, at this point in his age 21 season, Sandoval was hitting .310 in Double-A and one month from his MLB debut.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 9:45:00 GMT -5
We already have the next Pablo in Baldwin. Stout, some power, never walks, plays C and 3B. Out wth the old, in with the new. Eh, I don't love the comp. Baldwin isn't stout so much as he has kind of a thick lower half (see pic below), he hasn't played any 3B this year (I consider this a positive, fwiw), and is 3 years away in a best-case scenario. Meanwhile, at this point in his age 21 season, Sandoval was hitting .310 in Double-A and one month from his MLB debut. It wasn't too serious of a comp. Obviously even though Sandoval didn't age well, it would be pretty crazy if Baldwin ended up as good as he was production wise, and Baldwin is more of a C long term.
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juanpena
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Post by juanpena on Jul 13, 2017 10:12:32 GMT -5
Even counting the chest protector he's skinnier than Sandoval.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 13, 2017 14:32:52 GMT -5
You're right about Brock Holt however coming back. I'm not sure he's better then Lin. Come on. Since the start of 2014 he's hit .272/.335/.377 and he's a better defensive third baseman than Lin. He also much more capable in the outfield. Brock Holt is basically Lin's perfect-world projection. If Holt is healthy again (and I know that's a real "if") then he's one of the best utility players alive. He's stretched some as an every day third baseman and that usage for him is pretty far below optimal, but he's above replacement level there. The durability issue is a big thing for Holt now and Lin has shown a ability to hit for some power unlike Holt. I just think it could be closer then you think.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 14:45:50 GMT -5
I wouldn't count on Holt to be the same old Holt this year. He has missed a lot of time.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 13, 2017 15:09:36 GMT -5
We already have the next Pablo in Baldwin. Stout, some power, never walks, plays C and 3B. Out wth the old, in with the new. Eh, I don't love the comp. Baldwin isn't stout so much as he has kind of a thick lower half (see pic below), he hasn't played any 3B this year (I consider this a positive, fwiw), and is 3 years away in a best-case scenario. Meanwhile, at this point in his age 21 season, Sandoval was hitting .310 in Double-A and one month from his MLB debut. I've seen Baldwin play 3b and C. 3b more than c and think he wasn't too bad there when saw him, tho that was couple years ago. His body size might have some issues taking the grind of a full season behind the plate will say. he's not a big guy.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 15:32:15 GMT -5
He honestly looks like he has the body of almost every catcher ever.
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Post by costpet on Jul 13, 2017 17:10:14 GMT -5
I'd hate to see Lin go down and Pablo come up. What's the point? Panda can't field anymore and Lin has something about him that is kind of refreshing. Panda has his money made already, guaranteed no matter if they release him or not. Sox should just bite the bullet and get rid of the guy. He's standing in the way of better players. I wonder if he even cares anymore.
Anyway, they're making room for Devers in AAA and will be looked at closely. If he handles it as well as AA, he'll get a solid look in the Bigs like Benny did last year.
I just hope DD doesn't do anything stupid at the trading deadline. He scares me sometimes.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 13, 2017 17:25:05 GMT -5
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Post by Canseco on Jul 13, 2017 17:45:12 GMT -5
Just DFA El Gordo already. Until Devers is deemed ready for the show, we should take our chances with hungry players (the right kind of hunger, that is) with solid gloves and decent wheels like Lin and Marrero. As for Holt, it's hard for me to expect a lot from him this season. Those issues with vertigo/concussion symptoms worry me.
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Jul 13, 2017 18:59:54 GMT -5
Marrero has a major league glove, while Lin has that and may have the bat to go with it, though we hardly have enough information to go on at this point. So that's a bit of a stretch. I get the point your trying to make but realism, please. I'm not sure I get the point you're trying to make, Norm. Do you not believe that some combination of Lin and Marrero is a legitimate option at third base for the second half? Because I consider that a better option than further weakening the farm system for a rental who would not necessarily produce more wins than the Lin/Marrero combination. I very well could be misreading/misinterpreting your point but, either way, I'd welcome your thoughts on the option of just going with the rookies at third. Thanks.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,984
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Post by jimoh on Jul 13, 2017 19:13:36 GMT -5
I worry that each of the rookies at third is capable of going 4 for 40 in either August or September.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2017 19:21:34 GMT -5
Come on. Since the start of 2014 he's hit .272/.335/.377 and he's a better defensive third baseman than Lin. He also much more capable in the outfield. Brock Holt is basically Lin's perfect-world projection. If Holt is healthy again (and I know that's a real "if") then he's one of the best utility players alive. He's stretched some as an every day third baseman and that usage for him is pretty far below optimal, but he's above replacement level there. The durability issue is a big thing for Holt now and Lin has shown a ability to hit for some power unlike Holt. I just think it could be closer then you think. Before this season Lin had never recorded an ISOp of over .085. His power has spiked this year in Portland, but until he keeps that up over the course of a full season, I don't think there's any reason to believe he'll consistently hit for more power than Holt. He's 5-9, 155. Brock and Betts both have 25 pounds on him.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 14, 2017 2:54:46 GMT -5
The durability issue is a big thing for Holt now and Lin has shown a ability to hit for some power unlike Holt. I just think it could be closer then you think. Before this season Lin had never recorded an ISOp of over .085. His power has spiked this year in Portland, but until he keeps that up over the course of a full season, I don't think there's any reason to believe he'll consistently hit for more power than Holt. He's 5-9, 155. Brock and Betts both have 25 pounds on him. Maybe Lin has discovered the new launch angle revolution? There's no explaining it, especially when you put it the way you did, but this year he's hitting hard line drives and has been driving the ball.
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