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What to do about Pablo? (7/14 edit: DFAed)
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2017 12:24:33 GMT -5
I don't wanna get too far down the rabbit hole of things that didn't happen in 2014 but I think a lot of Mookie's value would be wasted at 3B where it seems unlikely he'd be close to as big an impact player defensively.
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Post by awall on Jul 14, 2017 12:34:08 GMT -5
That was my plan. Mookie at 3b. And, re-signing Lester and Miller when they hit free agency. Was told Mookie didn't have the arm for 3B. Now, I see him gunning people down from RF. I did like the Hanley signing. Thought he could play 1B until Papi retired and move to DH. I was on the right side of the Pablo signing also. These are the lessons which must be learned from this: 1) Do not overpay because of team needs 2) Do not overpay for middle tier players (2.5-3 WAR) 3) Do not sign fat players and expect them to age like everyone else3) Do not sign players who have no plate discipline (maybe the only player with a similarly horrible contract was Josh Hamilton) 4) Do not overpay because of a lack of better options I wonder how that Panda marketing campaign helped the bottom line. edited for redundancy. good riddance.
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Post by cheers on Jul 14, 2017 13:58:48 GMT -5
Kudos to the FO/ownership for pulling the trigger on the Sandoval DFA. Even though the move was overdue and obvious, it can't have been easy for ownership to swallow.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 14, 2017 15:28:43 GMT -5
Barring a moronic team taking all of his salary in a trade, Pablo's $49M was/is baked in no matter what. Within $1M, does anyone know how much the Sox are under the Luxury Tax? Cots has them at $197M, which I think puts them over, but I thought they were about $7M under.
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Post by pedey on Jul 14, 2017 17:03:18 GMT -5
Even after being DFA'd, Pablo Sandoval will continue to haunt this team for years to come. Why?
His presence led to the trade of Travis Shaw. BTW he has 19 HRs this year.
Really hope Devers will be up soon and producing to take the sting out of that.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 14, 2017 17:16:25 GMT -5
Because it's getting asked again, a refresher on outright assignment waivers:
Sandoval will go on irrevocable outright waivers. He will clear because a claiming team would have to take on his contract. The Red Sox would likely then try to outright him, which Sandoval can and will refuse as a player with 5 years service time (I'd assume they will try, rather than just release him, because if he were to accept, his money comes off of the CBT). When he refuses, they will give him his unconditional release. His money will continue to count against the CBT.
The Allen Craig and Rusney Castillo situations were different because they had less than 5 years' service time. Once you have 3 years' service time (like Craig) and have been outrighted once before (like Craig, who was outrighted once in May 2015, was added back in September of that year, then outrighted again during the offseason), you can elect to become a free agent but your contract is terminated. Craig would've cost himself $20 million if he'd done that, so that's why he didn't.
Everyone good? Quiz tomorrow.
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Post by daltonjones on Jul 14, 2017 18:20:41 GMT -5
I know it is crazy talk, but what if he retires?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2017 18:45:31 GMT -5
I know it is crazy talk, but what if he retires? What if he doesn't, but takes the money to donate to the two of us? I think that's about as likely. Sorry for the snark.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 14, 2017 20:04:14 GMT -5
I know it is crazy talk, but what if he retires? What if he doesn't, but takes the money to donate to the two of us? I think that's about as likely. Sorry for the snark. He should at least donate to Sox Prospects to keep us free for several years - or maybe forever.
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Post by ricelynnevans on Jul 14, 2017 21:20:34 GMT -5
Because it's getting asked again, a refresher on outright assignment waivers: Sandoval will go on irrevocable outright waivers. He will clear because a claiming team would have to take on his contract. The Red Sox would likely then try to outright him, which Sandoval can and will refuse as a player with 5 years service time (I'd assume they will try, rather than just release him, because if he were to accept, his money comes off of the CBT). When he refuses, they will give him his unconditional release. His money will continue to count against the CBT. The Allen Craig and Rusney Castillo situations were different because they had less than 5 years' service time. Once you have 3 years' service time (like Craig) and have been outrighted once before (like Craig, who was outrighted once in May 2015, was added back in September of that year, then outrighted again during the offseason), you can elect to become a free agent but your contract is terminated. Craig would've cost himself $20 million if he'd done that, so that's why he didn't. Everyone good? Quiz tomorrow. So theoretically could the Sox throw good money after bad, (say another couple million) and pay Panda to take the assignment to get that money off their books?
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Post by Guidas on Jul 14, 2017 21:33:30 GMT -5
Because it's getting asked again, a refresher on outright assignment waivers: Sandoval will go on irrevocable outright waivers. He will clear because a claiming team would have to take on his contract. The Red Sox would likely then try to outright him, which Sandoval can and will refuse as a player with 5 years service time (I'd assume they will try, rather than just release him, because if he were to accept, his money comes off of the CBT). When he refuses, they will give him his unconditional release. His money will continue to count against the CBT. The Allen Craig and Rusney Castillo situations were different because they had less than 5 years' service time. Once you have 3 years' service time (like Craig) and have been outrighted once before (like Craig, who was outrighted once in May 2015, was added back in September of that year, then outrighted again during the offseason), you can elect to become a free agent but your contract is terminated. Craig would've cost himself $20 million if he'd done that, so that's why he didn't. Everyone good? Quiz tomorrow. Get all this Pablo was a sunk cost that would count against the tax no matter what. But are they under so far this year, and if so by how much? Anyone?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 14, 2017 22:53:35 GMT -5
Because it's getting asked again, a refresher on outright assignment waivers: Sandoval will go on irrevocable outright waivers. He will clear because a claiming team would have to take on his contract. The Red Sox would likely then try to outright him, which Sandoval can and will refuse as a player with 5 years service time (I'd assume they will try, rather than just release him, because if he were to accept, his money comes off of the CBT). When he refuses, they will give him his unconditional release. His money will continue to count against the CBT. The Allen Craig and Rusney Castillo situations were different because they had less than 5 years' service time. Once you have 3 years' service time (like Craig) and have been outrighted once before (like Craig, who was outrighted once in May 2015, was added back in September of that year, then outrighted again during the offseason), you can elect to become a free agent but your contract is terminated. Craig would've cost himself $20 million if he'd done that, so that's why he didn't. Everyone good? Quiz tomorrow. Get all this Pablo was a sunk cost that would count against the tax no matter what. But are they under so far this year, and if so by how much? Anyone? Enough to give Ortiz a reasonable 3 month salary
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 15, 2017 2:33:10 GMT -5
They have about 8 million to spend before they get to the luxury tax threshold this season.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 22, 2017 15:46:40 GMT -5
John SheaVerified account @johnsheahey 1h1 hour ago Sandoval said he wishes he re-signed with the Giants. Yes, he said that.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 22, 2017 15:58:58 GMT -5
John SheaVerified account @johnsheahey 1h1 hour ago Sandoval said he wishes he re-signed with the Giants. Yes, he said that. So does every Red Sox fan
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2017 16:15:56 GMT -5
John SheaVerified account @johnsheahey 1h1 hour ago Sandoval said he wishes he re-signed with the Giants. Yes, he said that. I guess that's because he would have had the weight clause there and be forced to care about it since he has so little self motivation? Because showing up 80 pounds overweight to spring training isn't going to be different in SF than it was in Boston. Screw him. I predict he'll weight 400 pounds within 3 years.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2017 16:18:42 GMT -5
John SheaVerified account @johnsheahey 1h1 hour ago Sandoval said he wishes he re-signed with the Giants. Yes, he said that. I guess that's because he would have had the weight clause there and be forced to care about it since he has so little self motivation? Because showing up 80 pounds overweight to spring training isn't going to be different in SF than it was in Boston. Screw him. I predict he'll weight 400 pounds within 3 years. That signing was a train wreck from the second it occurred. It didn't exactly take genius to figure out it would go really badly. He was already on the decline offensively and defensively at the time of the signing. Add to it a guy who didn't care enough to take care of himself, it basically cost Cherington his job.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jul 23, 2017 0:11:48 GMT -5
It may have been (was) a bad signing from the get go, but I don't think anyone believed it would go this poorly. The fact that he was so useless that he got DFA's before Devers was even ready had to be far worse than even the assumed worst case scenario when he signed. Figured he would at worst be serviceable for a couple years. They didn't even get that
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 14, 2017 14:43:28 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 15, 2017 2:25:36 GMT -5
Chris Hatfield Retweeted Keith Foulke ✔ @keithfoulke Since Sandoval never felt at home in Boston, he should give back the salary he failed to earn. True definition of a POS in my opinion
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Post by bluechip on Aug 15, 2017 3:03:34 GMT -5
Chris Hatfield Retweeted Keith Foulke ✔ @keithfoulke Since Sandoval never felt at home in Boston, he should give back the salary he failed to earn. True definition of a POS in my opinion Would Keith Foulke like to review some of the things he said when he was having a terrible season in 2005? "“I’ve actually heard from a few separate people that the article (in the San Francisco Chronicle last week) had me almost saying that I didn’t like Boston. I love the city of Boston, what I don’t like… I’m a country boy. I grew up in the woods of East Texas. I’m not a city person. I don’t like walking out of my door and seeing hundreds of people everywhere. I need to be where I can have a back porch, I can go out, I can grill a steak. I got a garage where I can go out and mess with my bike, cars, whatever, I’m just not a city person you know, my wife and I at the time, we tried to move into the city, we thought it’d be convenient, you know what it backfired, not backfired, but it’s just not my style of living. Everybody’s got a comfort zone and mine is probably out in the suburbs in a little neighborhood and not in a high rise downtown." “I love the city of Boston. I’ve never played in a place like Boston. There’s no other place like this in the country. I love it there. It’s a small city but it has everything you need, great people, great fans. And oddly enough, I’ve actually become a fan of Fenway, the ballpark, and I love living there, I love playing there and we still have big things to do in the future.” archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/09/23/keith_foulke_talks_about_his_season/Granted he is trying to explain that he LIKES Boston, but admits he feels out of place...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 15, 2017 3:43:20 GMT -5
Pablo is just trying to resell himself as a player to get a job. The Giants probably have a hole at third base next year.
He is sucking up to stay in the league. I don't lose respect for Pablo for saying he loves San Fransisco, especially considering job opportunities might exist there.
I lose respect for him when he blamed Boston for being the reason why he couldn't play here. He's just a soft player that couldn't even manage to stay away from the snack cabinet, nevermind playing in the pressure cooker known as Boston sports.
Edit- Keith Foulke can say anything he wants imo and it's all fair game with me. In fact, I laughed at his comment. He'll always be a legend here with me at least. He gave everything he had in that 2004 postseason run and wasn't the same ever again.
Second edit- Any Sox champion or legend has a right to say anything they want and I'll defend it for the most part. The only two exceptions I made in this case in my life is Julio Lugo (because the Sox won despite of this guy in 2007) and Curt Schilling (I think everyone knows why in this case).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 15, 2017 12:40:22 GMT -5
Chris Hatfield Retweeted Keith Foulke ✔ @keithfoulke Since Sandoval never felt at home in Boston, he should give back the salary he failed to earn. True definition of a POS in my opinion Would Keith Foulke like to review some of the things he said when he was having a terrible season in 2005? "“I’ve actually heard from a few separate people that the article (in the San Francisco Chronicle last week) had me almost saying that I didn’t like Boston. I love the city of Boston, what I don’t like… I’m a country boy. I grew up in the woods of East Texas. I’m not a city person. I don’t like walking out of my door and seeing hundreds of people everywhere. I need to be where I can have a back porch, I can go out, I can grill a steak. I got a garage where I can go out and mess with my bike, cars, whatever, I’m just not a city person you know, my wife and I at the time, we tried to move into the city, we thought it’d be convenient, you know what it backfired, not backfired, but it’s just not my style of living. Everybody’s got a comfort zone and mine is probably out in the suburbs in a little neighborhood and not in a high rise downtown." “I love the city of Boston. I’ve never played in a place like Boston. There’s no other place like this in the country. I love it there. It’s a small city but it has everything you need, great people, great fans. And oddly enough, I’ve actually become a fan of Fenway, the ballpark, and I love living there, I love playing there and we still have big things to do in the future.” archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/09/23/keith_foulke_talks_about_his_season/Granted he is trying to explain that he LIKES Boston, but admits he feels out of place... I think Foulke is pointing to the fact that Sandoval chose the Red Sox because he didn't have to watch his weight in Boston - as SF was insisting on a weight clause. So Sandoval issues his FU to the Giants with some remarks saying basically that other than Pence or Bochy he wouldn't miss anybody else. Then the guy lets himself go and totally loses his skills. Basically he took Boston's money and the Sox were dumb enough to give it to him, but Sandoval's problems were very self-inflicted. Foulke's injury issues were self-inflicted as well, but from a different place in that he didn't listen to the team doctors right away when his knees were shot. I read that as a guy newly divorced he didn't want to be away from the team and be at an empty house rehabbing in solitude. But his injuries were from wear and tear, nothing that he did wrong. His issue was in dealing with the injury, which he probably wishes he had done differently. Panda just chose to eat, eat, and eat more because he found a team that would let him get away with that. Eventually when Foulke came back he wasn't the same pitcher, his contract with the Sox expired and then the Indians offered him a deal, but Foulke knew he was damaged goods so instead of taking Cleveland's money, he retired even though he couldn't have sat on the DL and collected his money. That's what I think is rankling Foulke. I'm inferring a lot of this, but I think it might explain his reaction. I won't go as far as Foulke but I have less than 0 respect for Sandoval (and I'm really glad Foulke is in the Red Sox organization). At least Sandoval didn't trash the Sox fans or organization on the way out, but that's about the only positive I can say about him. I'm going to guess we won't see Sandoval at any Red Sox old-timers types of celebrations.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 15, 2017 14:23:43 GMT -5
I'm going to guess we won't see Sandoval at any Red Sox old-timers types of celebrations. As long as the team continues to believe that trolling their fans isn't in their best interests.
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Post by 0ap0 on Aug 16, 2017 11:05:12 GMT -5
I'm going to guess we won't see Sandoval at any Red Sox old-timers types of celebrations. As long as the team continues to believe that trolling their fans isn't in their best interests. Didn't I just have to suffer through Roger Clemens in the booth for a few innings hocking his "charity"? Isn't he supposed to be in jail now?!
(I know nothing about his charity. It could be legit. I'd be more likely to give money to Jose Canseco to spend on donuts and booze)
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