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6/1-6/4 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 2, 2017 20:33:11 GMT -5
Man if you're gonna run with Rutledge up and 2 out, make it a hit & run. Don't want that ground ball machine leading off the 8th.
Anyways, nice catch by Mookie there.
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Post by station13 on Jun 2, 2017 20:53:56 GMT -5
nobody in AA/AAA cant do better than what Rutledge does up here?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 2, 2017 21:05:22 GMT -5
Just tuned in (busy night) - has the game (esp the offense) been as bad as the box score indicates?
Amazed at most of those BAs - .261 .259 .252 .270 .228 .246 .243 .233 - is that really the Red Sox line up? Only Bogaerts escapes that list.
Something's gotta give. Who - or what - is this team?
And - Henry Owens line tonight at Pawtucket - 0.2 innings, 6 hits, 6 earned runs. Ouch.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 2, 2017 21:09:31 GMT -5
With still ST bound Price going against Al Bundy tomorrow this series has the potential of going really bad for us, goddamn I'd kill for some consistency.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 2, 2017 21:12:17 GMT -5
Sox are 0-24 when trailing after 8 innings...ouch again.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 2, 2017 21:12:51 GMT -5
dammit.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 2, 2017 21:14:49 GMT -5
You just know that DD is shopping for bats right now. Another prospect trade would shut this site down. Never thought it would be this difficult for these guys to score runs consistently. We should be right there with the douches from NY, what, with our decent pitching this year. Frustrated.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jun 2, 2017 21:15:01 GMT -5
Yeah that .866 OPS last year sure was miserable. If you want to hijack a DH-only spot on the roster of an offensive juggernaut in the AL East at 22M/year, you've got to give me a .900 plus OPS. Also,I just can't stand him: The dreadlocks, the helmet dropping, the low baseball IQ
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 2, 2017 21:19:49 GMT -5
Another game against the Orioles and another loss. The offense is pretty lifeless. It's been pretty mediocre all year.
Rick Porcello won 22 games last year. He just might lose 22 games this year the way things are going. Honestly I'm surprised he got any runs to work with at all.
This is such a hard team to get excited about or even really dream about. Last year's team was aggravating, but man they were talented. It wasn't hard to envision a scenario in which they win.
It's kind of hard to envision that scenario with this team, with all the holes in the lineup, even though it shouldn't be.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 2, 2017 21:27:56 GMT -5
The huge gap created when Big Papi retired is now a gaping hole. Hanley is light years away - as a talent, and as a team leader (he seems to take nothing at all seriously - OK for a small market team, but not Boston). Mookie, Xander, Benny are simply too young to fill that role yet.
There are no quick easy solutions. It is as if the team that emerged after clinching last year, when they took their foot off of the gas, continues on into this year.
If they sink to .500 and keep up the listless play, something will have to give - Chili Davis - maybe even Farrell
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 2, 2017 21:45:49 GMT -5
No help at AAA, that's for sure - and only Devers at AA (he's not ready). At least sit Hanley for a bit - DH Travis. Sit Leon for most games and catch Vazquez. At least that gets 2 hot bats into the line up. Then just hope that the near team-wide slump eases.
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Post by Coreno on Jun 2, 2017 23:19:37 GMT -5
Yeah that .866 OPS last year sure was miserable. If you want to hijack a DH-only spot on the roster of an offensive juggernaut in the AL East at 22M/year, you've got to give me a .900 plus OPS. Also,I just can't stand him: The dreadlocks, the helmet dropping, the low baseball IQ Only 3 DHs have an OPS over .866 this year. Last year, only Ortiz, Nelson Cruz, and Encarnacion had higher OPS.
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Post by rivenp on Jun 3, 2017 1:45:24 GMT -5
Yeah that .866 OPS last year sure was miserable. If you want to hijack a DH-only spot on the roster of an offensive juggernaut in the AL East at 22M/year, you've got to give me a .900 plus OPS. Also,I just can't stand him: The dreadlocks, the helmet dropping, the low baseball IQ i can't stand hanley either but gotta think there's something wrong with him...whenever he's been healthy he's hit...shoulder issue again? at this point i'd rather see travis get his hacks in and see if he's good enough to take over for moreland next year.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 3, 2017 4:23:59 GMT -5
I sure hope that DD doesn't mortgage the future even more than he already has done. This is not a good team and they are hamstrung by awful contracts for guys like Hanley, Pablo and Price.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 3, 2017 7:49:46 GMT -5
Another game against the Orioles and another loss. The offense is pretty lifeless. It's been pretty mediocre all year. Rick Porcello won 22 games last year. He just might lose 22 games this year the way things are going. Honestly I'm surprised he got any runs to work with at all. This is such a hard team to get excited about or even really dream about. Last year's team was aggravating, but man they were talented. It wasn't hard to envision a scenario in which they win. It's kind of hard to envision that scenario with this team, with all the holes in the lineup, even though it shouldn't be. The Red Sox scored 5.7 runs per game in May, 2nd in the AL. That isn't mediocre all year.
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Post by patford on Jun 3, 2017 9:06:22 GMT -5
The thing is the Sox don't need another bat. They need their bats to start hitting. The non-bats on the team are for the most part hitting better than expected.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 3, 2017 9:10:00 GMT -5
Yeah that .866 OPS last year sure was miserable. If you want to hijack a DH-only spot on the roster of an offensive juggernaut in the AL East at 22M/year, you've got to give me a .900 plus OPS. Also,I just can't stand him: The dreadlocks, the helmet dropping, the low baseball IQ Seriously?
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Post by station13 on Jun 3, 2017 9:53:15 GMT -5
Another game against the Orioles and another loss. The offense is pretty lifeless. It's been pretty mediocre all year. Rick Porcello won 22 games last year. He just might lose 22 games this year the way things are going. Honestly I'm surprised he got any runs to work with at all. This is such a hard team to get excited about or even really dream about. Last year's team was aggravating, but man they were talented. It wasn't hard to envision a scenario in which they win. It's kind of hard to envision that scenario with this team, with all the holes in the lineup, even though it shouldn't be. The Red Sox scored 5.7 runs per game in May, 2nd in the AL. That isn't mediocre all year. 5.7 runs average is misleading. 14 games in May they fail to reach 5+. That is half of May total games.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 3, 2017 9:57:32 GMT -5
The Red Sox scored 5.7 runs per game in May, 2nd in the AL. That isn't mediocre all year. 5.7 runs average is misleading. 14 games in May they fail to reach 5+. That is half of May total games. Not to mention a lot of those runs probably came off the Twins bad pitching they faced. The Sox offense is a problem and has been a problem all season. This has been very obvious. There is no solution either besides getting Benintendi and Betts out of their funks. If they don't hit, then this offense is a crapshoot. The loss of Pedrioa also hurts too.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 3, 2017 10:05:25 GMT -5
The Red Sox scored 5.7 runs per game in May, 2nd in the AL. That isn't mediocre all year. 5.7 runs average is misleading. 14 games in May they fail to reach 5+. That is half of May total games. So about half of the games they were under the average and half they were above the average. Sounds normal to me. I think people are comparing this year's Red Sox team to Red Sox teams from the mid 2000s, when they should be comparing them to other teams in the league today instead.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 3, 2017 10:07:21 GMT -5
5.7 runs average is misleading. 14 games in May they fail to reach 5+. That is half of May total games. Not to mention a lot of those runs probably came off the Twins bad pitching they faced. The Sox offense is a problem and has been a problem all season. This has been very obvious. There is no solution either besides getting Benintendi and Betts out of their funks. If they don't hit, then this offense is a crapshoot. The loss of Pedrioa also hurts too. That's how averages work. The runs against bad teams count. There is nothing misleading about it. Every single team in the league feasts on bad pitching and struggles (relatively) against good pitching. I mean everyone complains when they don't feast on bad pitching so apparently it should count. Mookie had a 126 wRC+ in May even with a .237 BABIP. A .265 ISO helped there. People had the exact same complaints last season around this time. It's just a matter of time before they go on a scorching hot streak.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 3, 2017 10:19:28 GMT -5
5.7 runs average is misleading. 14 games in May they fail to reach 5+. That is half of May total games. So about half of the games they were under the average and half they were above the average. Sounds normal to me. I think people are comparing this year's Red Sox team to Red Sox teams from the mid 2000s, when they should be comparing them to other teams in the league today instead. Whatever it is, it isn't good enough. The Red Sox play half their games at Fenway so they should always be in the top half of runs scored. You can't tell me you don't find this offense a lot weaker than anticipated. We know Ortiz's loss would adversely affect them. But it's more than that. I was worried that Hanley and Pedroia would deal with injuries and wouldn't repeat their 2016 seasons. That's exactly the case. 3b is still a huge hole. Benintendi and Betts have been struggling, but they'll get hot eventually. Still, if this team doesn't rake, they're going to encounter problems. Sale is great. Porcello is ok, but clearly not as good as last season - no surprise there. Price's health is still an unknown. E-Rod's knee issues tell me to expect struggles until it doesn't hurt him anymore - just like last year. And Pomeranz - who knows what to expect from a guy who was afraid to throw his best pitch due to health concerns? Kimbrel has been lights out but nobody has asserted himself as the go-to-guy to get to Kimbrel. They've done fine so far but I have trouble expecting that to continue. At this stage, as much as it makes me nervous to say it, Kelly is probably that guy or needs to get every opportunity to be that guy. Last year the team's offense raked. This year they are nowhere near as good. I know that runs are down. And I looked in the paper and saw a statistical oddity - the NL actually had a higher BA and ERA than the AL, which NEVER happens because of the DH. The offense in the NL is MUCH better than the AL. It would be startling to see the numbers if the NL had the DH and the AL didn't. Anyways I think with an average offense, the Sox won't have enough thunder to get them through the pitching question marks. Usually with the Sox you assume the offense will be there. Will they get enough pitching? Now it's more like the pitching has potential, but a lot of question marks, and now you have to wonder will they get enough offense to get through that. And more pointedly, can they beat Baltimore and New York? The way this is shaping up I think the Sox will finish with a Wild Card matchup at Camden Yards with Buck Showalter laughing at the Red Sox when they knock them off yet again. All the while, the Yankees will somehow finish 1st with a questionable team while they await Frazier and Torres, and the big winter splash of 2018-2019 when they have the money to get the best players in the game while the Sox are hamstrung and have a farm system with very little front line talent coming up.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 3, 2017 10:23:01 GMT -5
I mean we're Red Sox fans right? We do realize that way more runs are scored at Fenway in July/August than in April/May right? There have been over 100 years of evidence of this.
What can a team possibly do about injuries? How can a team possibly replace Hanley or Pedroia or anyone of similar value without a big dropoff?
I'm not worried about the Yankees. Brett Gardner isn't going to finish with more than 30 HR. Aaron Hicks isn't a far better hitter than David Ortiz. Aaron Judge is not Ted Williams' equal. Almost every player on the team is having a career year and yet they're only 3 games ahead of the Red Sox.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 3, 2017 10:37:00 GMT -5
I mean we're Red Sox fans right? We do realize that way more runs are scored at Fenway in July/August than in April/May right? There have been over 100 years of evidence of this. What can a team possibly do about injuries? How can a team possibly replace Hanley or Pedroia or anyone of similar value without a big dropoff? I'm not worried about the Yankees. Brett Gardner isn't going to finish with more than 30 HR. Aaron Hicks isn't a far better hitters than David Ortiz. Aaron Judge is not Ted Williams' equal. Yes, the Sox should hit better as the season warms. Then it cools in Sept and Oct, so likewise the Red Sox offense should taper off by then, too. Nobody is saying Judge is Williams' equal, but he's a damn good player. I think a lot of people, myself included, thought that Rookie of the Year award would be Benitendi's. Nobody anticipated Judge picking up where Sanchez left off last season. It's pretty obvious that the Yankees have a gem of their own. Jim, I know you're an analytical, non-emotional fan, and I respect that. I also know you're a long-timer like me. What does your gut tell you about this team? Based on your experiences of watching this team through all the good and bad and mediocre over the past 30 something years? I have a pretty good sense of statistical oddities, laws of averages, etc, but when it comes to the Sox I also have a sixth sense about them. I've been wrong before with that sixth sense of mine, I'll admit, but sometimes you just get a feel about a team. I don't feel a deep Oct run is happening. I could very well be wrong - that's why they play the games, right? But I don't see a team that's as good as we hoped - and the injuries are definitely playing a big part. I'm rougher on this team because of Dombrowski's stance of firing all of your guns at once, leading to this smaller window of time, one in which the Sox are supposed to be the class of the league while they leave the Yankees and Orioles in the dust. And anything less is a disappointment.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 3, 2017 10:49:17 GMT -5
I mean we're Red Sox fans right? We do realize that way more runs are scored at Fenway in July/August than in April/May right? There have been over 100 years of evidence of this. What can a team possibly do about injuries? How can a team possibly replace Hanley or Pedroia or anyone of similar value without a big dropoff? I'm not worried about the Yankees. Brett Gardner isn't going to finish with more than 30 HR. Aaron Hicks isn't a far better hitters than David Ortiz. Aaron Judge is not Ted Williams' equal. Yes, the Sox should hit better as the season warms. Then it cools in Sept and Oct, so likewise the Red Sox offense should taper off by then, too. Nobody is saying Judge is Williams' equal, but he's a damn good player. I think a lot of people, myself included, thought that Rookie of the Year award would be Benitendi's. Nobody anticipated Judge picking up where Sanchez left off last season. It's pretty obvious that the Yankees have a gem of their own. Jim, I know you're an analytical, non-emotional fan, and I respect that. I also know you're a long-timer like me. What does your gut tell you about this team? Based on your experiences of watching this team through all the good and bad and mediocre over the past 30 something years? I have a pretty good sense of statistical oddities, laws of averages, etc, but when it comes to the Sox I also have a sixth sense about them. I've been wrong before with that sixth sense of mine, I'll admit, but sometimes you just get a feel about a team. I don't feel a deep Oct run is happening. I could very well be wrong - that's why they play the games, right? But I don't see a team that's as good as we hoped - and the injuries are definitely playing a big part. I'm rougher on this team because of Dombrowski's stance of firing all of your guns at once, leading to this smaller window of time, one in which the Sox are supposed to be the class of the league while they leave the Yankees and Orioles in the dust. And anything less is a disappointment. I brought up Judge because he actually is getting results like Ted Williams. It's not sustainable. His BABIP is over .400 and his HR/FB% is 40.9%. There are actually 5 Yankees hitters with a HR/FB% of over 20%. The Red Sox have 2 (Marrero and Sandoval). It's very rare to be over 20%. Papi was at 18.7% for his career. I really think the Red Sox have the capability to go on a good run. They are only 3 games out at the beginning of June. The Yankees and Orioles are playing way over their heads and the Red Sox have been disappointing thus far. Red Sox pitching is FAR superior to either team. The injuries cannot be overlooked either. Hopefully the luck turns there. I didn't agree with Dombrowski's moves either, but I don't let it change my expectations. I expect to be entertained. I am being entertained. I don't need them to win every game or be in the playoffs every year for me to be entertained. My life won't change if they don't win. I'll just say 'wait til next year' like I've done my whole life. Maybe I didn't live in New England long enough to be like most Red Sox fans. (I moved away when I was 16) If they make the playoffs great. If they win a round great. If they win the championship, I'll be ecstatic. I don't expect it though. They've won enough in my life that I can't be disappointed again. Real disappointment was 1986 and 2003. That can't ever happen again because they've won since then. It's not possible to ever be that disappointed from 2004 on. I used to live and die with sports and let it affect my mood and my life. People in my life knew to stay away from me if my team lost and that's sad and ridiculous. I finally realized that caring that much about a sport played by a bunch of zillionaires is stupid. It's supposed to be entertainment, not my life. I now often turn off stinker games and forget about it until the next game. I only take the positive parts of watching baseball now and ignore the negative. It's done wonders for my quality of life. I'm also of the belief that worrying about things on a game to game basis is pointless. There is so much variance of outcomes that has nothing to do with the quality of the team because it's baseball. It's not the NBA where the Cavs have a 99.5% chance of beating the Celtics in a playoff round. Some people here worry about things on a pitch to pitch basis and start criticizing someone like Xander because he didn't hit a home run on a pitch right down the middle. If he hit all of them, he'd wind up with about 200 home runs. I don't really bother critiquing a season until it's August. They're in a position to win the division with ease right now. Fangraphs still has them winning the division.
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