radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,353
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Post by radiohix on Jun 17, 2017 8:19:14 GMT -5
I'm not confortable with the price tag that comes with getting Moustakas if he's traded (The AL Central is such a mess) and I don't like the Frazier skill set so I'm interested in Jed Lowrie and here's my reasons: - He's cheap: about 3.5 millions for the rest of the year. - He's controlable for next year with a team option of 6.5 millions and 1 million buyout. - He provides versatility and can play all the infield positions without embarassing himself which is huge because he can give days off to Xander and Pedey. - He's a fine hitter. Granted he won't be hitting for a 131 wRC that he has now but he'll certainly be an above average hitter and that's a huge upgrade from what we have now. There's also the fact that he's our guy in the sens that he's a product of our farm system, has played in Boston and is familiar with the coaching staff (Chilli, JF..) so there will be no settling in period, I think. With the return of Semien soon and the call up of Chapman, I think Billy Bean and the A's will be very open at trading him so what do you guys think tha price should be? I think something like Beeks, Cedrola can start a conversation.
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Post by sgfeer on Jun 17, 2017 8:34:44 GMT -5
The issue with Jed would be how long till he joins Holt and Hernandez on the DL. Plus I think Beane would want a ransom from the Sox.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jun 17, 2017 10:56:17 GMT -5
I agree he would be a lot better than what we throw out there presently. It comes down to cost for me. Not sure what it would take, but I would not be willing to give up too much. Hate to move Beeks at this time. I'd rather move one of our many relievers in our system...some of which are looking pretty good.
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Post by basbal24 on Jun 18, 2017 12:04:05 GMT -5
my offer would be owens & brenez both could work well in oakland & they could promote barreto
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Jed Lowrie
Jun 18, 2017 12:23:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by wcsoxfan on Jun 18, 2017 12:23:57 GMT -5
How about Hernandez as a PTBNL? Would be cheap controllable player for Oakland.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2017 12:42:57 GMT -5
How about Hernandez as a PTBNL? Would be cheap controllable player for Oakland. I'd hesitate to trade players like Hernandez. He's really good depth to have at AAA or on the bench when he's not out for the season. They don't have enough of those guys to begin with.
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Jed Lowrie
Jun 18, 2017 16:59:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2017 16:59:48 GMT -5
I'd welcome Jed back. His control into next year would be ideal to platoon Devers with until Devers is ready to take over.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 19, 2017 14:39:20 GMT -5
Don't love it based on the fact that Lowrie hasn't played third base since 2015.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2017 1:50:20 GMT -5
Lowrie has been better at 3b than I thought he was. The biggest issue is price and can he stay healthy? He's already at a career high in war. If you get lucky and he stays healthy he would really help. They are going to want so much though.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,353
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Post by radiohix on Jun 22, 2017 9:58:52 GMT -5
I'll try to sell high on Chavis and offer a package centred around him for Jed.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jun 22, 2017 10:27:47 GMT -5
I'll try to sell high on Chavis and offer a package centred around him for Jed. You'd probably be selling high on Chavis, but you'd definitely be buying high on Lowrie.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,353
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Jed Lowrie
Jun 22, 2017 10:50:31 GMT -5
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Post by radiohix on Jun 22, 2017 10:50:31 GMT -5
I'll try to sell high on Chavis and offer a package centred around him for Jed. You'd probably be selling high on Chavis, but you'd definitely be buying high on Lowrie. True but see what I wrote in my first comment: "He's a fine hitter. Granted he won't be hitting for a 131 wRC that he has now but he'll certainly be an above average hitter and that's a huge upgrade from what we have now."
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 22, 2017 12:16:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to be sure that Lowrie can play 3B well now. Vazquez has played more innings at 3B than Lowrie in the last two seasons.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 22, 2017 12:53:37 GMT -5
How well does he have to play it? Battling it to a draw while putting up a .320 OBP would be an enormous upgrade, and there's a real chance he's better than that. Not sure I'd trade Chavis to find out (and I certainly wouldn't package him with other valuable parts), but given the options out there I think Lowrie is realistic.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2017 14:49:14 GMT -5
I don't worry about him playing third, it's him getting injured. I don't trade Chavis for a question mark like that. In other threads everyone's talking about trading for a DH, because we need one for the future. At worst Chavis could fill that hole.
You know it's a bad offer when before you get off the phone with the A's Lowrie is already half way to Boston.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 22, 2017 15:25:30 GMT -5
How well does he have to play it? Battling it to a draw while putting up a .320 OBP would be an enormous upgrade, and there's a real chance he's better than that. Not sure I'd trade Chavis to find out (and I certainly wouldn't package him with other valuable parts), but given the options out there I think Lowrie is realistic. Well he'd have to justify his price. He's more valuable at 2B than 3B at this point. I don't want to pay the premium for his 2B ability over his 3B ability.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 22, 2017 15:28:25 GMT -5
I don't worry about him playing third, it's him getting injured. I don't trade Chavis for a question mark like that. In other threads everyone's talking about trading for a DH, because we need one for the future. At worst Chavis could fill that hole. You know it's a bad offer when before you get off the phone with the A's Lowrie is already half way to Boston. At worst, Chavis won't be a major league player. There's still a lot of swing and miss in his swing. I think a lot will be revealed in AA about what he's going to end up like. Plus, there's just no way that you can assume anyone can be a fulltime DH in the majors.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2017 0:33:06 GMT -5
I don't worry about him playing third, it's him getting injured. I don't trade Chavis for a question mark like that. In other threads everyone's talking about trading for a DH, because we need one for the future. At worst Chavis could fill that hole. You know it's a bad offer when before you get off the phone with the A's Lowrie is already half way to Boston. At worst, Chavis won't be a major league player. There's still a lot of swing and miss in his swing. I think a lot will be revealed in AA about what he's going to end up like. Plus, there's just no way that you can assume anyone can be a fulltime DH in the majors. Come on you could say the same thing about almost anyone below AA. His strikeout numbers are getting better as he moves up through the system. I agree AA tells us a lot about his future. Thing is you can't just overlook what he did in 60 games. That was special. You really can't predict anything about prospects. Chavis sure has the look of a guy that could potentially help you at DH down the road if he can't play the field. Outside Devers he looks to have the best power in system. Big power guys that can't field sure is the standard DH type player. I am higher on Chavis than most. Have been since his great start last year before he got injured.
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Post by dmaineah on Jun 23, 2017 12:22:43 GMT -5
Here is what Lowrie is owed;
2017 age 33 $6,500,000
2018 age 34 *$6,000,000 $6M Team Option, $1M Buyout
Earliest Free Agent: 2018
He does seem to be injured a lot & that is a concern. I wouldn't be opposed to him but wouldn't be willing to give Chavis.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 23, 2017 12:37:50 GMT -5
At worst, Chavis won't be a major league player. There's still a lot of swing and miss in his swing. I think a lot will be revealed in AA about what he's going to end up like. Plus, there's just no way that you can assume anyone can be a fulltime DH in the majors. Come on you could say the same thing about almost anyone below AA. His strikeout numbers are getting better as he moves up through the system. I agree AA tells us a lot about his future. Thing is you can't just overlook what he did in 60 games. That was special. You really can't predict anything about prospects. Chavis sure has the look of a guy that could potentially help you at DH down the road if he can't play the field. Outside Devers he looks to have the best power in system. Big power guys that can't field sure is the standard DH type player. I am higher on Chavis than most. Have been since his great start last year before he got injured. Chavis had a 29% k-rate and 2.9% bb-rate in June. The problem has not gone away. I do not say the same thing about every prospect below AA. I say it much more often about guys with k-rates that are too high, especially when they don't walk enough. And my point about DH is that full time ones are going away. You basically have to hit like Papi or Nelson Cruz for it to be worth it. That is not something you could ever project for any prospect. Also, we could definitely use the DH spot to give our position players a day off from playing the field once in awhile just to give them a break, but we don't have any depth because of injuries.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2017 16:10:06 GMT -5
Come on you could say the same thing about almost anyone below AA. His strikeout numbers are getting better as he moves up through the system. I agree AA tells us a lot about his future. Thing is you can't just overlook what he did in 60 games. That was special. You really can't predict anything about prospects. Chavis sure has the look of a guy that could potentially help you at DH down the road if he can't play the field. Outside Devers he looks to have the best power in system. Big power guys that can't field sure is the standard DH type player. I am higher on Chavis than most. Have been since his great start last year before he got injured. Chavis had a 29% k-rate and 2.9% bb-rate in June. The problem has not gone away. I do not say the same thing about every prospect below AA. I say it much more often about guys with k-rates that are too high, especially when they don't walk enough. And my point about DH is that full time ones are going away. You basically have to hit like Papi or Nelson Cruz for it to be worth it. That is not something you could ever project for any prospect. Also, we could definitely use the DH spot to give our position players a day off from playing the field once in awhile just to give them a break, but we don't have any depth because of injuries. Talk about cherry picking numbers in 59 games he had 57 strikeouts and 19 base on balls. Not great numbers, but not a death sentence either. Not with his power. Compare that ratio to his 2016 numbers and the walks are up and strikeouts are down slightly. He did that while jumping up a league. Not great, but he has less strikeouts compared to Moncada for example. Moncada got more walks. Chavis is also showing a lot more power than Moncada did, he already has more HRs in half the games. Sure Moncada has more tools than Chavis, but when you compare there hitting at the same age Chavis is very impressive. We'll see if Chavis has a massive spike in strikeouts like Moncada did in AA.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 23, 2017 16:19:24 GMT -5
Chavis had a 29% k-rate and 2.9% bb-rate in June. The problem has not gone away. I do not say the same thing about every prospect below AA. I say it much more often about guys with k-rates that are too high, especially when they don't walk enough. And my point about DH is that full time ones are going away. You basically have to hit like Papi or Nelson Cruz for it to be worth it. That is not something you could ever project for any prospect. Also, we could definitely use the DH spot to give our position players a day off from playing the field once in awhile just to give them a break, but we don't have any depth because of injuries. Talk about cherry picking numbers in 59 games he had 57 strikeouts and 19 base on balls. Not great numbers, but not a death sentence either. Not with his power. Compare that ratio to his 2016 numbers and the walks are up and strikeouts are down slightly. He did that while jumping up a league. Not great, but he has less strikeouts compared to Moncada for example. Moncada got more walks. Chavis is also showing a lot more power than Moncada did, he already has more HRs in half the games. Sure Moncada has more tools than Chavis, but when you compare there hitting at the same age Chavis is very impressive. We'll see if Chavis has a massive spike in strikeouts like Moncada did in AA. It's concerning to me that as his power became well known in A+, the walks went down and his strikeouts went up. That doesn't make sense to me. If I had to guess, he's swinging for the fences even more now and forgetting that walks are good. He should be walking more, not striking out more at this point of the season. That probably means that he's chasing pitches out of the zone as pitchers are more scared to throw him strikes. I could be wrong, but I don't see the point in declaring him untouchable right now. He has a whole lot more to prove for me to feel better about him as a future decent MLB player. And I'll never believe he's a future star full time DH because that basically takes a guy putting up Ted Williams numbers in the minors. I mean name a single DH prospect. They don't exist for a reason. I'm higher on Ockimey because he walks a ton. I'm also not convinced that Moncada is going to be the star that some think he will be. For every Aaron Judge, there are a Willy Mo Pena and Will Middlebrooks.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2017 18:18:37 GMT -5
Keith Law says Chavis breakout looks legit. At the same times says Ockimey is feasting on off speed pitches and doesn't seem to be able to hit good fastballs. Says that needs to be watched closely as he moves up.
Your idea about the DH is crazy. Yes, no one plans on a player being a DH. At the same time you act like every DH is Ortiz or Nelson. Yea ok every DH is the greatest DH to ever play the game. Who knows if Chavis is going to hit good enough to be a DH, but he is the exact type of player that become DHs. Guys that are big power hitter, that can't play another position.
I also don't buy one month proves anything, talk about limited sample size. Maybe he is trying to hit HRs. That's something that can easily be fixed. Not like it's killing his average. Bradley did the same thing and now this year he has power and the walks. The fact he can hit for power and average is what's important.
I wouldn't call him untouchable, but I'm not trading him for Lowrie.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 23, 2017 18:22:31 GMT -5
On that, I'll agree. I'm not trading Chavis for Lowrie either.
So far you're winning the argument. Chavis has a 5.000 OPS at AA so far. haha
And of course, I hope you win it in the end too.
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Jed Lowrie
Jun 26, 2017 19:47:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by wcsoxfan on Jun 26, 2017 19:47:06 GMT -5
How about Hernandez as a PTBNL? Would be cheap controllable player for Oakland. I'd hesitate to trade players like Hernandez. He's really good depth to have at AAA or on the bench when he's not out for the season. They don't have enough of those guys to begin with. A trade for Lowrie would leave the Red Sox with the following 3b options for 2018 (assuming option is picked up): Jed Lowrie Rafael Devers Pablo Sandoval Brock Holt Marco Hernandez Tzu-Wei Lin Deven Marrero The Red Sox will have to move at least 1-2 of those guys as it is. 2018 depth isn't an issue.
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