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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Jul 7, 2017 2:00:39 GMT -5
My question is what do we do about Rusney Castillo? He's clearly performing in AAA and he's a hell of an athlete. All the money we're paying him why don't we plug him in at 3rd and swap his ludacris contract for Pablo's. so at least one of them overpaid guys will contribute. Pablo would need to get packaged with a Jason Groome for any team to take him.
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Post by mandelbro on Jul 7, 2017 9:06:39 GMT -5
My question is what do we do about Rusney Castillo? He's clearly performing in AAA and he's a hell of an athlete. All the money we're paying him why don't we plug him in at 3rd and swap his ludacris contract for Pablo's. so at least one of them overpaid guys will contribute. Pablo would need to get packaged with a Jason Groome for any team to take him. The majority of Castillo's value is related to being an outstanding outfielder. Trying to move an outfielder to the left side of the infield (and one who has shown such questionable baseball instincts as Castillo to boot) is crazy. Castillo is in a weird situation. The Sox can't trade him and eat part of the contract, without the subsidy counting against the luxury tax. They'd have to add him to the 40 man roster to bring him up, and commit to paying tax on his salary the rest of the way. And, since they signed him, largely because of his ability to be a defensive CF, they discovered Mookie, drafted Benintendi, and JBJ began practicing black magic. So there's basically no possible avenue for the Red Sox to lack a center fielder. The Red Sox arguably need Castillo less than any team in baseball. And he can't leave.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 9:30:05 GMT -5
We talked about this a few weeks ago. Castillo could possibly be Young's replacement next year if they are going over the cap.
If Castillo is on the roster, his AAV is $10.36M. Young's is $6.5M. To go from Young to Castillo is an extra $3.86M for luxury tax purposes + possible tax. That money is being paid anyway, so the only extra money being spent is the possible tax. If they are going over the cap anyway which appears likely with all the guys reaching arbitration, that's a decent option and probably a better one than you can get in free agency at the cost of almost nothing. I think it's something to consider depending on how Castillo does for the rest of the year.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 7, 2017 9:46:07 GMT -5
Castillo's a player that I'd think other teams would be interested in, too. He's more valuable to a team like the Giants, who badly need outfield help and aren't near the luxury tax threshold (but may be near their own budget). I'm not saying they should give him away for nothing, but getting 75 cents on the dollar for a guy who doesn't really fill a need could make a lot of sense. His contract isn't good but it wouldn't be an albatross for most teams, especially if there's someone with a need there. An AAV of $10.5 million for a 1.0-1.5 WAR player really isn't dreadful.
Contrast that with Sandoval. Even beyond the money if he was outright released, I'm not sure how many teams would even consider him worthy of a roster spot.
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 10:04:25 GMT -5
And, since they signed him, largely because of his ability to be a defensive CF, they discovered Mookie, drafted Benintendi, and JBJ began practicing black magic. So there's basically no possible avenue for the Red Sox to lack a center fielder. The Red Sox arguably need Castillo less than any team in baseball. And he can't leave. In addition to being a potential Young replacement, recall that Farrell doesn't like to move his outfielders around too much. Betts hasn't played a position other than RF since 2015, Bradley hasn't played a position other than CF since 2015, and while Benintendi's played a good bit in CF, he's not made an appearance in RF and seems unlikely to ever do so outside of an emergency. In that light, having a fourth outfielder who can fill in at all three OF positions would be a nice luxury, and Castillo fits that bill. We have a really good and young starting outfield, but those guys could use more days off than they've been getting, and injuries are always a risk. As a bench player, Castillo's speed would also be an asset, and he would be an acceptable pinch hitter, especially versus LHP or in a situation where you need him to make contact. I remain convinced Castillo is a legitimate major leaguer. Guys who play above-average CF defense and make a good bit of contact have a high floor, and Castillo's raw power also gives him a decent enough ceiling. (One thing to remember, though-- he's older than you think (turns 30 on Sunday).)
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 10:25:29 GMT -5
And on a personal level, Castillo shouldn't be banished for life from the majors just because his contract sucks. He's still a major league player. I wish the CBA could do something to prevent this.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 7, 2017 10:28:56 GMT -5
The fact that players not on the 40-man don't count toward the luxury tax is probably bad. I mean, it's good for the Red Sox currently, but it's bad in general and sort of incentivizes overpaying for players who can still be outrighted because the risk calculation is lower.
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Post by mandelbro on Jul 7, 2017 10:49:05 GMT -5
And, since they signed him, largely because of his ability to be a defensive CF, they discovered Mookie, drafted Benintendi, and JBJ began practicing black magic. So there's basically no possible avenue for the Red Sox to lack a center fielder. The Red Sox arguably need Castillo less than any team in baseball. And he can't leave. In addition to being a potential Young replacement, recall that Farrell doesn't like to move his outfielders around too much. Betts hasn't played a position other than RF since 2015, Bradley hasn't played a position other than CF since 2015, and while Benintendi's played a good bit in CF, he's not made an appearance in RF and seems unlikely to ever do so outside of an emergency. In that light, having a fourth outfielder who can fill in at all three OF positions would be a nice luxury, and Castillo fits that bill. We have a really good and young starting outfield, but those guys could use more days off than they've been getting, and injuries are always a risk. As a bench player, Castillo's speed would also be an asset, and he would be an acceptable pinch hitter, especially versus LHP or in a situation where you need him to make contact. I remain convinced Castillo is a legitimate major leaguer. Guys who play above-average CF defense and make a good bit of contact have a high floor, and Castillo's raw power also gives him a decent enough ceiling. (One thing to remember, though-- he's older than you think (turns 30 on Sunday).) The problem with having Castillo on the bench, is that raw speed aside, he struggled mightily to run the bases in his short time up. Maybe he's gotten better since then? As an armchair GM, since I have three center fielders in Betts/JBJ/Benintendi, I'd look for a LF-only profile 4th outfielder. Because regardless of which of the three is on the DL, the 4th OF wouldn't have to play CF or RF. Chris Young is perfect for the role I have in mind. Lefty masher, can pinch hit or carry at DH sometimes. Brentz fits the mold if he can hit MLB pitching. Castillo is overqualified defensively, but not ideal offensively.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 10:50:38 GMT -5
The fact that players not on the 40-man don't count toward the luxury tax is probably bad. I mean, it's good for the Red Sox currently, but it's bad in general and sort of incentivizes overpaying for players who can still be outrighted because the risk calculation is lower. I wish they could just limit contract lengths since all it takes for a really bad contract is two teams who always seem to get dumb when competing with each other.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 7, 2017 10:54:18 GMT -5
The fact that players not on the 40-man don't count toward the luxury tax is probably bad. I mean, it's good for the Red Sox currently, but it's bad in general and sort of incentivizes overpaying for players who can still be outrighted because the risk calculation is lower. I wish they could just limit contract lengths since all it takes for a really bad contract is two teams who always seem to get dumb when competing with each other. Fixes that try to save teams from their own stupidity at the expense of players are generally not okay with me.
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 10:58:52 GMT -5
In addition to being a potential Young replacement, recall that Farrell doesn't like to move his outfielders around too much. Betts hasn't played a position other than RF since 2015, Bradley hasn't played a position other than CF since 2015, and while Benintendi's played a good bit in CF, he's not made an appearance in RF and seems unlikely to ever do so outside of an emergency. In that light, having a fourth outfielder who can fill in at all three OF positions would be a nice luxury, and Castillo fits that bill. We have a really good and young starting outfield, but those guys could use more days off than they've been getting, and injuries are always a risk. As a bench player, Castillo's speed would also be an asset, and he would be an acceptable pinch hitter, especially versus LHP or in a situation where you need him to make contact. I remain convinced Castillo is a legitimate major leaguer. Guys who play above-average CF defense and make a good bit of contact have a high floor, and Castillo's raw power also gives him a decent enough ceiling. (One thing to remember, though-- he's older than you think (turns 30 on Sunday).) The problem with having Castillo on the bench, is that raw speed aside, he struggled mightily to run the bases in his short time up. Maybe he's gotten better since then? As an armchair GM, since I have three center fielders in Betts/JBJ/Benintendi, I'd look for a LF-only profile 4th outfielder. Because regardless of which of the three is on the DL, the 4th OF wouldn't have to play CF or RF. Chris Young is perfect for the role I have in mind. Lefty masher, can pinch hit or carry at DH sometimes. Brentz fits the mold if he can hit MLB pitching. Castillo is overqualified defensively, but not ideal offensively. Castillo's never been a good basestealer and his baserunning instincts weren't great the last time he was in the majors, but in terms of going first to third or scoring from second on a single, given his raw speed, he's an asset. Having a LF-only guy as your fourth outfielder works if you're willing to shift your other outfielders around, but Farrell doesn't like to do that. When Betts gets a rare day off, Young plays RF (28 innings there this reason), which is not ideal (especially in Fenway). Maybe Farrell would be more flexible if there was a longer-term injury (as opposed to single game fill-ins), but maybe not. Castillo's skill set is less sexy than Brentz's, but I'm pretty confident that Castillo is the better player by a decent margin. Honestly, I think there's a good chance he's a better player than Chris Young right now.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 11:01:12 GMT -5
I wish they could just limit contract lengths since all it takes for a really bad contract is two teams who always seem to get dumb when competing with each other. Fixes that try to save teams from their own stupidity at the expense of players are generally not okay with me. They would fight over dollar amount instead of length if that happened. So the mistakes would be for a shorter period of time, and also cutoff possible disasters before they happened. The players we're talking about are in the top 1% of baseball players anyway. Paying someone like Carl Crawford $20 million to sit at home comes at the expense of someone else getting that money.
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Post by mandelbro on Jul 7, 2017 11:05:17 GMT -5
The problem with having Castillo on the bench, is that raw speed aside, he struggled mightily to run the bases in his short time up. Maybe he's gotten better since then? As an armchair GM, since I have three center fielders in Betts/JBJ/Benintendi, I'd look for a LF-only profile 4th outfielder. Because regardless of which of the three is on the DL, the 4th OF wouldn't have to play CF or RF. Chris Young is perfect for the role I have in mind. Lefty masher, can pinch hit or carry at DH sometimes. Brentz fits the mold if he can hit MLB pitching. Castillo is overqualified defensively, but not ideal offensively. Castillo's never been a good basestealer and his baserunning instincts weren't great the last time he was in the majors, but in terms of going first to third or scoring from second on a single, given his raw speed, he's an asset. Having a LF-only guy as your fourth outfielder works if you're willing to shift your other outfielders around, but Farrell doesn't like to do that. When Betts gets a rare day off, Young plays RF (28 innings there this reason), which is not ideal (especially in Fenway). Maybe Farrell would be more flexible if there was a longer-term injury (as opposed to single game fill-ins), but maybe not. Castillo's skill set is less sexy than Brentz's, but I'm pretty confident that Castillo is the better player by a decent margin. Honestly, I think there's a good chance he's a better player than Chris Young right now. Agree to disagree. I think Castillo is a better player right now, if you consider them in their best roles. But as a LF who comes off the bench to pinch-hit and plays some DH, I definitely would take Young.
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 11:09:22 GMT -5
Fixes that try to save teams from their own stupidity at the expense of players are generally not okay with me. They would fight over dollar amount instead of length if that happened. So the mistakes would be for a shorter period of time, and also cutoff possible disasters before they happened. The players we're talking about are in the top 1% of baseball players anyway. Paying someone like Carl Crawford $20 million to sit at home comes at the expense of someone else getting that money. I know it's frustrating to watch a guy get playing time only because of his contract or to know that the team you're rooting for is handcuffed financially because of a bad contract they gave out. But Sandoval and Crawford and Castillo "earned" those contracts because they were really good players who were woefully underpaid the first half of their careers, and you shouldn't direct your frustration at them.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 11:11:12 GMT -5
They would fight over dollar amount instead of length if that happened. So the mistakes would be for a shorter period of time, and also cutoff possible disasters before they happened. The players we're talking about are in the top 1% of baseball players anyway. Paying someone like Carl Crawford $20 million to sit at home comes at the expense of someone else getting that money. I know it's frustrating to watch a guy get playing time only because of his contract or to know that the team you're rooting for is handcuffed financially because of a bad contract they gave out. But Sandoval and Crawford and Castillo "earned" those contracts because they were really good players who were woefully underpaid the first half of their careers, and you shouldn't direct your frustration at them. I've never liked the way money is allocated in baseball and I dislike it even more now that the best players all seem to be making $500k. I'll try not to get another thread split and shut up now.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 7, 2017 12:17:21 GMT -5
Castillo's never been a good basestealer and his baserunning instincts weren't great the last time he was in the majors, but in terms of going first to third or scoring from second on a single, given his raw speed, he's an asset. Having a LF-only guy as your fourth outfielder works if you're willing to shift your other outfielders around, but Farrell doesn't like to do that. When Betts gets a rare day off, Young plays RF (28 innings there this reason), which is not ideal (especially in Fenway). Maybe Farrell would be more flexible if there was a longer-term injury (as opposed to single game fill-ins), but maybe not. Castillo's skill set is less sexy than Brentz's, but I'm pretty confident that Castillo is the better player by a decent margin. Honestly, I think there's a good chance he's a better player than Chris Young right now.I can't really understand this. He has walked 7 times in 261 plate appearances, he still hasn't learned to be patient. Maybe he is making more contact now, or his defense is better, but it is AAA. Chris Young is a solid major league contributor right now in a part time role, we need guys that can produce offense on this team.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 12:43:13 GMT -5
Castillo's never been a good basestealer and his baserunning instincts weren't great the last time he was in the majors, but in terms of going first to third or scoring from second on a single, given his raw speed, he's an asset. Having a LF-only guy as your fourth outfielder works if you're willing to shift your other outfielders around, but Farrell doesn't like to do that. When Betts gets a rare day off, Young plays RF (28 innings there this reason), which is not ideal (especially in Fenway). Maybe Farrell would be more flexible if there was a longer-term injury (as opposed to single game fill-ins), but maybe not. Castillo's skill set is less sexy than Brentz's, but I'm pretty confident that Castillo is the better player by a decent margin. Honestly, I think there's a good chance he's a better player than Chris Young right now.I can't really understand this. He has walked 7 times in 261 plate appearances, he still hasn't learned to be patient. Maybe he is making more contact now, or his defense is better, but it is AAA. Chris Young is a solid major league contributor right now in a part time role, we need guys that can produce offense on this team. Chris Young is below replacement level now. It's not a very high bar to reach. Rusney has a 127 wRC+ in AAA and the defense is very good.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 7, 2017 13:21:44 GMT -5
I can't really understand this. He has walked 7 times in 261 plate appearances, he still hasn't learned to be patient. Maybe he is making more contact now, or his defense is better, but it is AAA. Chris Young is a solid major league contributor right now in a part time role, we need guys that can produce offense on this team. Chris Young is below replacement level now. It's not a very high bar to reach. Rusney has a 127 wRC+ in AAA and the defense is very good. Chris is a part time player. Are you expecting 1 WAR in a 140 at bats ? And how much is Rousney's good defense going to override his lack of offense. You can quote his wRC+ all you want, he hasn't hit at the major league level yet.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 7, 2017 13:47:15 GMT -5
Since Castillo's defense is good, he needs to hit less than Chris Young. And since Chris Young hasn't hit, then that isn't much. The whole point of replacement level is that, if a player isn't reaching it, available talent should be able to replace him.
Still, I don't know that I give up on Young yet - he's averaged 2.3 bWAR per 650 PA since 2012, and that includes his bad 2013 season. He was 0.9 last year in 227 PA and 1.2 the previous year in 356. Basically the difference in his value is that his HR/FB isn't at its normal levels, and that wouldn't necessarily normalize over 170 PA. His other rates are right in range of where he's previously been.
I still think Castillo is more valuable to another team than the Red Sox, because he's a second-division starter in center on a team that has a first division starter at all three outfield position.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 7, 2017 14:20:07 GMT -5
Yeah I just personally don't think Dombrowski likes Castillo all that much or the whole organization is down on him. They signed Chris Young when Rusney was here backing up in the outfield in the first place.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 7, 2017 14:26:38 GMT -5
Since Castillo's defense is good, he needs to hit less than Chris Young. And since Chris Young hasn't hit, then that isn't much. The whole point of replacement level is that, if a player isn't reaching it, available talent should be able to replace him. Still, I don't know that I give up on Young yet - he's averaged 2.3 bWAR per 650 PA since 2012, and that includes his bad 2013 season. He was 0.9 last year in 227 PA and 1.2 the previous year in 356. Basically the difference in his value is that his HR/FB isn't at its normal levels, and that wouldn't necessarily normalize over 170 PA. His other rates are right in range of where he's previously been. I still think Castillo is more valuable to another team than the Red Sox, because he's a second-division starter in center on a team that has a first division starter at all three outfield position. I can buy that. Certainly his defense is better than Young. Is there any proof that his good defense would matriculate into the ML stadiums? I am going to guess that there probably is a difference. I just have a hard time positing that he could be a better player than Young now. He has been in the system for 3 years and he isn't even on the 40 man. Now that may be for luxury tax purposes, but I also am not going to put a lot of stock in 1/2 year improved performance. As others have said, next year might be a better option. And that walk rate....Good God.
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Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2017 14:54:58 GMT -5
Since Castillo's defense is good, he needs to hit less than Chris Young. And since Chris Young hasn't hit, then that isn't much. The whole point of replacement level is that, if a player isn't reaching it, available talent should be able to replace him. Still, I don't know that I give up on Young yet - he's averaged 2.3 bWAR per 650 PA since 2012, and that includes his bad 2013 season. He was 0.9 last year in 227 PA and 1.2 the previous year in 356. Basically the difference in his value is that his HR/FB isn't at its normal levels, and that wouldn't necessarily normalize over 170 PA. His other rates are right in range of where he's previously been. I still think Castillo is more valuable to another team than the Red Sox, because he's a second-division starter in center on a team that has a first division starter at all three outfield position. I can buy that. Certainly his defense is better than Young. Is there any proof that his good defense would matriculate into the ML stadiums? I am going to guess that there probably is a difference. I just have a hard time positing that he could be a better player than Young now. He has been in the system for 3 years and he isn't even on the 40 man. Now that may be for luxury tax purposes, but I also am not going to put a lot of stock in 1/2 year improved performance. As others have said, next year might be a better option. And that walk rate....Good God. I think you're fixating on what Castillo does poorly (take walks) and not taking into account the stuff that he does well (defense and contact). The difference in player value between plus defense in center field and lousy defense in left field is something like 1.5 to 2.0 wins per season, which I think more that bridges the gap between Castillo and Young offensively. I mean, even if you only consider Castillo's major league performance, he's a career .262/.301/.379 (82 wRC+) hitter in 337 PAs, which is just fine given his defensive value. His major league performance to date prorates out to 2.5 fWAR and 3.3 bWAR per 650 PAs, which compares well to what Young has done the last few years.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 15:23:16 GMT -5
Chris Young is below replacement level now. It's not a very high bar to reach. Rusney has a 127 wRC+ in AAA and the defense is very good. Chris is a part time player. Are you expecting 1 WAR in a 140 at bats ? And how much is Rousney's good defense going to override his lack of offense. You can quote his wRC+ all you want, he hasn't hit at the major league level yet. In any case, it's hard to believe that Young will be better going forward given his age. Young isn't really hitting now. That can change, but that's where he's at.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2017 15:40:39 GMT -5
Since Castillo's defense is good, he needs to hit less than Chris Young. And since Chris Young hasn't hit, then that isn't much. The whole point of replacement level is that, if a player isn't reaching it, available talent should be able to replace him. Still, I don't know that I give up on Young yet - he's averaged 2.3 bWAR per 650 PA since 2012, and that includes his bad 2013 season. He was 0.9 last year in 227 PA and 1.2 the previous year in 356. Basically the difference in his value is that his HR/FB isn't at its normal levels, and that wouldn't necessarily normalize over 170 PA. His other rates are right in range of where he's previously been. I still think Castillo is more valuable to another team than the Red Sox, because he's a second-division starter in center on a team that has a first division starter at all three outfield position. I agree with you somewhat on that last sentence, but I think Castillo's value is based on the Red Sox paying part of his salary, which defeats the purpose. Any money added to a trade would be added to luxury tax calculations, which makes whoever replaces him cost more. If they could get a team to take his full salary or close to it, I'd go for it.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 7, 2017 17:33:44 GMT -5
So, Castillo has value. Just not to the sox. Hang on to him until this winter and then look for a trade partner. Then because we will be over the cap anyway it will not matter. The young and brentz situation is interesting. Brentz is a young player looking to get his feet wet in the bigs, with power but limited to lf. young is a proven , not great outfielder , but one who can play all 3 positions at a big league level. he still hits lefty's. Tough decision. But I probably would go with the flow and right now, ASSUME, holt, hernandez, young, and leon are healthy. I think the sox should look at trading brentz at the deadline for a low level power pitcher, and look to see this winter what they can get for Castillo.
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