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Salty, Ellsbury & Hanrahan avoid arbitration
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 19, 2013 14:49:10 GMT -5
There are always a lot of ifs for any team of course, but man, if Bailey & Bard return to form, and now that the arb eligible guys are in the fold, we sure could surprise on the pitching side. One can reasonably hope, if not expect, that Doubront will improve and Lester has to. Lackey likely will be better as well. I'm actually excited about our staff. In fact with all our pitchers, absent injury, the greater likelihood is that they will pitch better, not worse than last year...possible exceptions could be Miller and Tazawa. But hey there is some light at tunnel end here.
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Post by buffs4444 on Jan 19, 2013 14:50:00 GMT -5
Cherrington was given his marching orders by ownership: no contracts longer than three years; don't mortgage the future; stay within budget while trying to field a competitive team. He's done all of that, and while there are plenty of posters on the board who dislike his moves, he deserves a lot of praise. This isn't Duquette or Epstein's MLB. The mandate looks plenty smart to me, and he looks like he's executed it. He's been solid, maybe. Not sure anything he's done is deserving of "praise". Some professions get praise for merely doing your job, baseball GM's who haven't done something significant such as spending turkey day recruiting a HOF'er or dealing two solid prospects for a HOF pitcher don't get accorded that same type of recognition.
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Post by mainesox on Jan 19, 2013 15:05:20 GMT -5
There are always a lot of ifs for any team of course, but man, if Bailey & Bard return to form, and now that the arb eligible guys are in the fold, we sure could surprise on the pitching side. One can reasonably hope, if not expect, that Doubront will improve and Lester has to. Lackey likely will be better as well. I'm actually excited about our staff. In fact with all our pitchers, absent injury, the greater likelihood is that they will pitch better, not worse than last year...possible exceptions could be Miller and Tazawa. But hey there is some light at tunnel end here. The pitching almost can't help but be better than last year; particularly the conglomeration that more-or-less constituted the #5 pitcher (which totaled -0.2 WAR; even 2011 John Lackey would have been a significant improvement).
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Post by patrmac04 on Jan 19, 2013 15:20:00 GMT -5
Tim Brown @tbrownyahoo Breslow gets 2 years plus option with Boston. Guaranteed $6.25m. Max on deal is $10.15m. Pending physical. Thats a great signing. I always liked Breslow when he was in our system. He has proven to be very reliable through his career.
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Post by elguapo on Jan 20, 2013 23:52:18 GMT -5
I never would have believed it - the Sox now like Breslow even more than I like him. Looks like Rich Hill won't be back, though, which is a shame.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 21, 2013 10:22:21 GMT -5
Some professions get praise for merely doing your job, baseball GM's who haven't done something significant such as spending turkey day recruiting a HOF'er or dealing two solid prospects for a HOF pitcher don't get accorded that same type of recognition. I'd say Ben pulled off one of the most significant player moves in Sox history, tho, in the Punto Trade ... unless you're just talking about this offseason. In which case, I generally agree. It's a solid offseason, nothing more than that. But on the pitching, the starters are fairly deep - I'm liking the Dempster signing more and more - but with significant question marks for almost every pitcher. The bullpen, however, is stacked, at least as much as a bullpen can be given the inherent volatility. There are four guys on the roster with significant histories of shut-down relieving (Bailey, Uehara, Hanrahan, Bard), an extremely promising young pitcher in Tazawa, some decent lefthanded options ... there are questions (primarily Bard, but also Bailey's health, general volatility of relievers, etc) but so many promising arms it seems unlikely that the bullpen will implode.
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Post by jmei on Jan 21, 2013 13:17:44 GMT -5
Rich Hill has been looking for a guaranteed ML contract but hasn't found one yet (and the Red Sox presumably won't give him one). He might be open to a minor-league deal with the Sox, but I suspect even if he has to go the minor-league deal route, he'll find a team with a more unsettled bullpen situation.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 21, 2013 18:41:08 GMT -5
He's been solid, maybe. Not sure anything he's done is deserving of "praise". Some professions get praise for merely doing your job, baseball GM's who haven't done something significant such as spending turkey day recruiting a HOF'er or dealing two solid prospects for a HOF pitcher don't get accorded that same type of recognition. So basically, unless you acquire someone who breaks an 86 year "curse" or a pitcher who can literally be called the best ever, you're "merely doing your job". Seems like a fair standard.
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Post by jioh on Jan 21, 2013 19:54:51 GMT -5
Rich Hill has been looking for a guaranteed ML contract but hasn't found one yet (and the Red Sox presumably won't give him one). He might be open to a minor-league deal with the Sox, but I suspect even if he has to go the minor-league deal route, he'll find a team with a more unsettled bullpen situation. Might it behoove Hill to wait and see if we trade e.g. Miller?
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Post by buffs4444 on Jan 21, 2013 21:30:53 GMT -5
He's been solid, maybe. Not sure anything he's done is deserving of "praise". Some professions get praise for merely doing your job, baseball GM's who haven't done something significant such as spending turkey day recruiting a HOF'er or dealing two solid prospects for a HOF pitcher don't get accorded that same type of recognition. So basically, unless you acquire someone who breaks an 86 year "curse" or a pitcher who can literally be called the best ever, you're "merely doing your job". Seems like a fair standard. The references to Duke and Theo were in the original, that opened the door to the comparison. Honest opinion he's basically treading water; hasn't been bad, hasn't been great. May have just been a poor choice of words in the original, but no, BC hasn't done anything praise worthy, and that includes the talent purge to the Dodgers.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 21, 2013 23:28:40 GMT -5
Well we can disagree on this one, then. He cleaned out the deadwood, got back a year and a half's worth of salary, he's gotten the roster rebuilt, stocked up on more relief than rolaids and tums combined, and kept the minor league talent in house. We'll have to see how the season goes, but I was absolutely against trading away the talent for a year or two of Josh Johnson, and R. A. Dickey or even a few years of Jose Reyes. And five years of Josh Hamilton, back loaded at $30 millon per? No thank you. Greinke is a very good pitcher but the price over the six years should make your head explode. The Dodgers want to do this, and that's cool. They bought the team for over $1 billion, but they've also got a TV contract that will easily quadruple that. That's cash in hand so good for them.
But this is what I thought the Sox should pursue before the off-season even started. For me, that means Cherrington deserves the praise.
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Post by jioh on Jan 22, 2013 8:56:56 GMT -5
[quote author=buffs4444 board=general thread=406 post=9693 time=1358821853
...no, BC hasn't done anything praise worthy, and that includes the talent purge to the Dodgers. [/quote]
Funniest thing I've seen in a long time! Has someone hacked your account to make you look silly?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 22, 2013 9:29:00 GMT -5
Might it behoove Hill to wait and see if we trade e.g. Miller? That's probably a consideration for him, yes. If he doesn't get the major league deal that he's looking for, he'll certainly try to identify a team where he has a path to the majors (i.e. first or second option when there is an injury). If one of the lefties is traded then I think Boston would be a possibility. The only lefties the Red Sox have in the high minors are Chris Hernandez, Will Latimer and Drake Britton. If not Hill, I'd expect another lefty with major league experience to get a minor league deal. The pickings are slim, however.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 22, 2013 9:44:49 GMT -5
Who would not like to keep Hill?...But I think that there is a place reserved for Miller, an overpowering lefty. Given the choice, I would keep Miller based on the power niche.
Most years we scratch and claw to find good pen guys and now we may have something of a surplus...Hill may be there if we do swing something of a trade from the pen...can't say tho that there are any of those guys I would want to lose.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 22, 2013 10:11:01 GMT -5
Miller's trade value is the highest it's been in years. Despite Morales's injury, the same may be true of him.
Even having the best year of his career, Miller walked 11.8% of the batters he faced. That's sustainable when he's striking out 30% of opposing batters, as he did in 2012. If that K rate falls down to even 25% though? That scares me. I'm certainly not saying they should be looking to dump him, because he's quite talented, but we also need to make sure we're not reading too much into small sample improvement.
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Post by tjb21 on Jan 22, 2013 10:32:27 GMT -5
The references to Duke and Theo were in the original, that opened the door to the comparison. Honest opinion he's basically treading water; hasn't been bad, hasn't been great. May have just been a poor choice of words in the original, but no, BC hasn't done anything praise worthy, and that includes the talent purge to the Dodgers. Come on, this is just a silly comment.
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Post by Matt Huegel on Jan 25, 2013 13:13:57 GMT -5
Rich Hill has been looking for a guaranteed ML contract but hasn't found one yet (and the Red Sox presumably won't give him one). He might be open to a minor-league deal with the Sox, but I suspect even if he has to go the minor-league deal route, he'll find a team with a more unsettled bullpen situation. That's true, but there are reasons he might stay too if it came down to a MiL deal. He's familiar with team/staff and lives in the area; bullpen's pretty volatile, needs can change quickly; and I'm sure he'd get an early opt-out and would just be looking to prove himself for Boston and other teams.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 26, 2013 17:50:12 GMT -5
One of the blogs said the other day that he's confident he'll get an MLB deal.
Could just be posturing though.
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Post by welovewally on Jan 27, 2013 1:48:45 GMT -5
The references to Duke and Theo were in the original, that opened the door to the comparison. Honest opinion he's basically treading water; hasn't been bad, hasn't been great. May have just been a poor choice of words in the original, but no, BC hasn't done anything praise worthy, and that includes the talent purge to the Dodgers. Come on, this is just a silly comment. Why is the truth a silly comment? Confusing...
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Post by jioh on Jan 27, 2013 7:35:22 GMT -5
Come on, this is just a silly comment. Why is the truth a silly comment? Confusing... It's a very silly comment, and calling it "the truth" is even sillier. it sets a ridiculous standard for GMs, assuming that they deserve praise only when they do something BETTER then the Punto trade, which has been universally praised by fans and insiders both for getting rid of the bad contracts, and for picking up two very promising pitchers. This has not been a winter in which our GM has been able to completely fleece someone, and in which no superstar has fallen into our laps, and that's too bad. But what's been really disappointing is the low quality of the whining on SP this winter.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 27, 2013 15:18:48 GMT -5
As opposed to high quality whining?
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Post by buffs4444 on Jan 27, 2013 16:17:02 GMT -5
Why is the truth a silly comment? Confusing... It's a very silly comment, and calling it "the truth" is even sillier. it sets a ridiculous standard for GMs, assuming that they deserve praise only when they do something BETTER then the Punto trade, which has been universally praised by fans and insiders both for getting rid of the bad contracts, and for picking up two very promising pitchers. This has not been a winter in which our GM has been able to completely fleece someone, and in which no superstar has fallen into our laps, and that's too bad. But what's been really disappointing is the low quality of the whining on SP this winter. The comment was about a talent purge and you're talking about contracts.....what seems silly is to be confusing the two. Or to think that something falling into their lap would be praise worthy. Regardless, if you think the job that BC has done is praise worthy, you're more than welcome to your opinion. Just don't slam the opinion of others as "whining" simply because you don't agree with it. This is a message board, not a law review.
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Post by jioh on Jan 27, 2013 18:35:01 GMT -5
It's a very silly comment, and calling it "the truth" is even sillier. it sets a ridiculous standard for GMs, assuming that they deserve praise only when they do something BETTER then the Punto trade, which has been universally praised by fans and insiders both for getting rid of the bad contracts, and for picking up two very promising pitchers. This has not been a winter in which our GM has been able to completely fleece someone, and in which no superstar has fallen into our laps, and that's too bad. But what's been really disappointing is the low quality of the whining on SP this winter. The comment was about a talent purge and you're talking about contracts.....what seems silly is to be confusing the two. Or to think that something falling into their lap would be praise worthy. Regardless, if you think the job that BC has done is praise worthy, you're more than welcome to your opinion. Just don't slam the opinion of others as "whining" simply because you don't agree with it. This is a message board, not a law review. It's not a law review, but it's a place for precise, reasonable arguments. To say that overall "the job that BC has done is [not] praise worthy" is a reasonable position. To say that "BC hasn't done anything [emphasis added] praise worthy, and that includes the talent purge to the Dodgers," is ridiculous, and typical of some of the unreasonable whining that has characterized a lot of comments this winter.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 27, 2013 20:50:57 GMT -5
The comment was about a talent purge and you're talking about contracts.....what seems silly is to be confusing the two. Or to think that something falling into their lap would be praise worthy. Regardless, if you think the job that BC has done is praise worthy, you're more than welcome to your opinion. Just don't slam the opinion of others as "whining" simply because you don't agree with it. This is a message board, not a law review. Talent purge is a misleading and excessive description, no? I think you could make an easy argument that the Red Sox added pitching talent through this trade. I also think you can make an easy argument that the core (including Gonzo, CC, and Beckett) was fatally flawed until they added significant pitching talent. They lacked the payroll flexibility to add that pitching talent without a crazy lucky scenario or blowing by the luxury tax like the Dodgers. RDLR and Webster offer more talent than Josh Beckett does at this stage of his career. I can understand arguing they came out net negative in talent through this deal (ignoring salary), but purge is overstated. Gonzalez hasn't performed like an elite talent since the 2011 AS break and Crawford is coming off an injury and two lost seasons. The "purged" talent wasn't flashing much talent in Boston over a decent sample size.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 27, 2013 21:36:04 GMT -5
We need to get one thing straight about the Punto trade: it wasn't Ben Cherrington's idea. BC and Ned Colletti did not hammer out a quarter billion dollar trade and then go to their ownership groups for the OK. This is a trade that was initiated at the ownership level, period. I think you CAN give him credit for getting De La Rosa and Webster in the deal. Those details probably were sorted out on the baseball operations level. But an evaluation of Ben Cherrington should not be based on the idea that he decided to radically reshape the organization by unloading two massive contracts.
I'm not making a comment on his GM-ing either way (I'll do that later), just saying we need to get the facts straight here.
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