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Rafael Devers called up to MLB
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 1, 2017 8:01:35 GMT -5
Yeah, looking back on that deal, Dombrowski owes Cashman at least a cold one for facilitating his absolute fleecing of the Diamondbacks.
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 1, 2017 8:49:43 GMT -5
Glad Devers is in the majors and seems to be on to a good start. Hope he a star for years to come. Maybe it will take the sting out of losing Travis Shaw. According to my calculations, Shaw is on pace for 39 home runs. It almost makes me physically ill thinking about that trade. Darn you DD, no wonder the Tigers dumped you. Truth be told and off Shaw's 2016 season where he tanked second half plus his spotty minor league record, I don't think there was much consternation at the time. The jury is still out on how this ultimately plays.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 1, 2017 9:18:49 GMT -5
"On December 9, 2009, Scherzer was traded along with Daniel Schlereth, Phil Coke, and Austin Jackson to the Detroit Tigers as part of a three team trade that brought Ian Kennedy and Edwin Jackson to the Diamondbacks and Curtis Granderson to the New York Yankees.[8]" via wikipedia. Solid trade for both sides Solid trade both sides? Detroit won that trade going away. It was actually a pair of trades, and DDo won them both hugely. Figures are bWAR before hitting free agency. He first traded Granderson (14.3) to the Yankees for Austin Jackson (22.2), Kennedy (9.6), and Coke (1.0). So he won that, 32.8 to 14.3. He then turned around and traded Kennedy and Edwin Jackson (4.9) for Scherzer (21.5) and Schlereth (0.3). So he won that 21.8 to 14.5, but that's misleading, because he got a true ace for two mid-to-back rotation guys. There were a pair of compensation picks involved, the 59th pick in the 2012 draft for Edwin Jackson and the 34th pick in 2015 for Scherzer. He won the pair 45.0 to 19.2.
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Post by patford on Aug 1, 2017 9:25:35 GMT -5
Glad Devers is in the majors and seems to be on to a good start. Hope he a star for years to come. Maybe it will take the sting out of losing Travis Shaw. According to my calculations, Shaw is on pace for 39 home runs. It almost makes me physically ill thinking about that trade. Darn you DD, no wonder the Tigers dumped you. Truth be told and off Shaw's 2016 season where he tanked second half plus his spotty minor league record, I don't think there was much consternation at the time. The jury is still out on how this ultimately plays. If Shaw were still with Boston he would be hitting .205 with nine homers. And that is assuming the same multiple injuries scenario. He got his shot and didn't produce. When he lost his position he pouted.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 1, 2017 9:40:06 GMT -5
Glad Devers is in the majors and seems to be on to a good start. Hope he a star for years to come. Maybe it will take the sting out of losing Travis Shaw. According to my calculations, Shaw is on pace for 39 home runs. It almost makes me physically ill thinking about that trade. Darn you DD, no wonder the Tigers dumped you. Truth be told and off Shaw's 2016 season where he tanked second half plus his spotty minor league record, I don't think there was much consternation at the time. The jury is still out on how this ultimately plays. I'm pretty sure I spent that year asserting that Shaw's second-half swoon was just an extended slump with no special predictive power above and beyond his season totals, and also pointing out that young streaky guys have major upside, because all they have to do is shorten their slumps. The Sox took a flier on Carlos Pena based on that rationale, the year before he ... shortened his slumps and had a massive breakout. I and some others were also loving him as an under-the-radar prospect after he changed his mechanics and was one of the top 2 or 3 hitters in the AFL in terms of exit velocity. And I hated the trade (although I don't think I said so here).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 1, 2017 9:41:07 GMT -5
So, Rafael Devers...
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 1, 2017 10:17:12 GMT -5
Truth be told and off Shaw's 2016 season where he tanked second half plus his spotty minor league record, I don't think there was much consternation at the time. The jury is still out on how this ultimately plays. I'm pretty sure I spent that year asserting that Shaw's second-half swoon was just an extended slump with no special predictive power above and beyond his season totals, and also pointing out that young streaky guys have major upside, because all they have to do is shorten their slumps. The Sox took a flier on Carlos Pena based on that rationale, the year before he ... shortened his slumps and had a massive breakout. I and some others were also loving him as an under-the-radar prospect after he changed his mechanics and was one of the top 2 or 3 hitters in the AFL in terms of exit velocity. And I hated the trade (although I don't think I said so here). Also, it was a rookie season spent between 1B and 3B and even some time in LF. In 2017 he would have stabilized 3B and then spent time at 1B and Dh whenever Devers (or Moncada) came up. Imagine the outcomes with Moreland and Shaw together the first couple of months, and Devers and Shaw together the final couple of months, and into the future? Nope. Even if Thorny worked out, Shaw has too much potential to be in that trade.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 1, 2017 10:29:58 GMT -5
And he's 5 years younger.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 1, 2017 10:46:25 GMT -5
And he's 5 years younger. This relentless emphasis on stats is depressing. Exit velocity, schmosity. Thank you, I'll take the guy whose swing is so beautiful that I literally watched his first MLB HR a dozen times, after saving the game on my DVR, exactly as if it were porn. Oh wait, that's Devers, too.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Aug 1, 2017 10:57:07 GMT -5
LOL to Eric sort of dissing stats
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 1, 2017 11:07:03 GMT -5
LOL to Eric sort of dissing stats Well, it wasn't entirely sarcastic. It's exciting to see guys compile great numbers. But that's not why we watch the games. My godson is 23 and knows almost nothing about baseball. He's living with me for two months this summer. I showed him JBJ's catch up against the wall in CF and he half lost his mind. I showed my sci-fi buddies, who know nothing about the game they haven't slightly absorbed from me, the full two minutes of the Devers debut HR (to the last slo-motion replay) and they were suitably wowed. This may be a good time to mention that both of the HRs went considerably further than I thought they would, coming off the bat. And I've watched a lot of baseball.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2017 12:57:58 GMT -5
LOL to Eric sort of dissing stats Well, it wasn't entirely sarcastic. It's exciting to see guys compile great numbers. But that's not why we watch the games. My godson is 23 and knows almost nothing about baseball. He's living with me for two months this summer. I showed him JBJ's catch up against the wall in CF and he half lost his mind. I showed my sci-fi buddies, who know nothing about the game they haven't slightly absorbed from me, the full two minutes of the Devers debut HR (to the last slo-motion replay) and they were suitably wowed. This may be a good time to mention that both of the HRs went considerably further than I thought they would, coming off the bat. And I've watched a lot of baseball. Speak for yourself, I have MLB Game Center feed open for every game just to see exit velocities and pitch stats. It seems like even every ground ball Devers hits is a lot harder than anyone else's. It doesn't even seem like he has really gotten a hold of anything yet. He's not just punishing mistake pitches. He's punishing everything. All balls he hits seem to be harder than they should be. And I thought I was excited about Xander and Mookie... Devers is the one prospect to rule them all.
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Post by swooptech on Aug 1, 2017 13:59:40 GMT -5
Will Devers still have rookie eligibility next year?
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 1, 2017 14:38:21 GMT -5
LOL to Eric sort of dissing stats Well, it wasn't entirely sarcastic. It's exciting to see guys compile great numbers. But that's not why we watch the games. My godson is 23 and knows almost nothing about baseball. He's living with me for two months this summer. I showed him JBJ's catch up against the wall in CF and he half lost his mind. I showed my sci-fi buddies, who know nothing about the game they haven't slightly absorbed from me, the full two minutes of the Devers debut HR (to the last slo-motion replay) and they were suitably wowed. This may be a good time to mention that both of the HRs went considerably further than I thought they would, coming off the bat. And I've watched a lot of baseball. Yes, good comments. But isn't the difference between what you expected when you saw that beautiful swing and how far they went explained by exit velocity? Gomes as color man yesterday said that he ball that hit the Wall went further than either he or the LF expected, because of backspin and Devers' great strength.
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Post by rookie13 on Aug 1, 2017 14:42:34 GMT -5
Will Devers still have rookie eligibility next year? Not at this rate.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2017 15:08:01 GMT -5
From 108 Stitches:
According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Devers joined Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Tony Conigliaro as the only Red Sox 20 or younger to go 4 for 4 or better.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 1, 2017 15:49:43 GMT -5
From 108 Stitches: According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Devers joined Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Tony Conigliaro as the only Red Sox 20 or younger to go 4 for 4 or better. Well I expect to meet... nay... exceed the careers ofTed Williams and Babe Ruth.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 1, 2017 15:56:43 GMT -5
Will Devers still have rookie eligibility next year? Not at this rate. Yeah when I was on the SportsHub last night, I kind of realized in the middle of saying as I was talking that he will likely graduate. (I'm sure it made for stupendous radio.) Remember, the only reason Benintendi was a rookie to start this year was the ankle injury last year, and he came up later than Devers. If Devers remains healthy and keeps playing, he'll likely graduate sometime in September, you'd think.
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Post by mandelbro on Aug 1, 2017 16:06:47 GMT -5
From 108 Stitches: According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Devers joined Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Tony Conigliaro as the only Red Sox 20 or younger to go 4 for 4 or better. The full list is Devers, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams (3x), Tony C. (2x) and Dalton Jones (2x).
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2017 16:32:37 GMT -5
From 108 Stitches: According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Devers joined Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Tony Conigliaro as the only Red Sox 20 or younger to go 4 for 4 or better. The full list is Devers, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams (3x), Tony C. (2x) and Dalton Jones (2x). I never even heard of Dalton Jones and after I looked him up, I see why. What a strange addition to the list. In his rookie year when he was 20, he only hit .230/.274/.342.
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Post by mandelbro on Aug 1, 2017 16:40:50 GMT -5
The full list is Devers, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams (3x), Tony C. (2x) and Dalton Jones (2x). I never even heard of Dalton Jones and after I looked him up, I see why. What a strange addition to the list. In his rookie year when he was 20, he only hit .230/.274/.342. Isn't that curious? It's not like he got off to a fast start and burned out, he was a mediocre rookie who ran into the feat twice.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 1, 2017 17:09:26 GMT -5
Well, it wasn't entirely sarcastic. It's exciting to see guys compile great numbers. But that's not why we watch the games. My godson is 23 and knows almost nothing about baseball. He's living with me for two months this summer. I showed him JBJ's catch up against the wall in CF and he half lost his mind. I showed my sci-fi buddies, who know nothing about the game they haven't slightly absorbed from me, the full two minutes of the Devers debut HR (to the last slo-motion replay) and they were suitably wowed. This may be a good time to mention that both of the HRs went considerably further than I thought they would, coming off the bat. And I've watched a lot of baseball. Yes, good comments. But isn't the difference between what you expected when you saw that beautiful swing and how far they went explained by exit velocity? Gomes as color man yesterday said that he ball that hit the Wall went further than either he or the LF expected, because of backspin and Devers' great strength. The exit velocity, launch angle, and backspin determine the distance. Bat speed and bat weight determine exit velocity. You can see launch angle directly, you can see bat speed (although it's easy to mistake messed-up mechanics for a slow bat), and you can even sense backspin from where on the bat the ball was hit. After years of watching baseball, you get a really good sense of how far a ball should go, given what you see. There's just one variable you don't really see. Which leads to a terrific question: how heavy a bat is Devers using? If he's swinging a bat that's a couple of ounces heavier than guys his size typically use, but still getting great bat speed, that would explain why the ball has such surprising carry. I think that in our intuitions, we use physical build as a proxy for bat weight. When a Miguel Sano steps up and crushes one, we're not surprised by the distance because that's how far a big strong beast of a guy is expected to hit the ball given the swing we just saw. But of course the physical build is actually not a direct causative factor; all it does is allow you to get the same desired high bat speed with a heavier bat. So here are two hypotheses, which are not mutually exclusive: 1) Devers is unusually strong for a guy with his build, is swinging a bat an ounce or too heavier than you'd expect, and hence the ball has unexpected carry. 2) Devers has such extraordinarily good mechanics that he essentially breaks our unconscious algorithm that tells us how far a ball should go, given the swing we just saw and the size and apparent strength of the hitter. This might make some sense if the various aspects of mechanics (hip load, swing path, wrists, etc.) were not simply additive but reinforced one another.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 1, 2017 17:32:37 GMT -5
Well, it wasn't entirely sarcastic. It's exciting to see guys compile great numbers. But that's not why we watch the games. My godson is 23 and knows almost nothing about baseball. He's living with me for two months this summer. I showed him JBJ's catch up against the wall in CF and he half lost his mind. I showed my sci-fi buddies, who know nothing about the game they haven't slightly absorbed from me, the full two minutes of the Devers debut HR (to the last slo-motion replay) and they were suitably wowed. This may be a good time to mention that both of the HRs went considerably further than I thought they would, coming off the bat. And I've watched a lot of baseball. Speak for yourself, I have MLB Game Center feed open for every game just to see exit velocities and pitch stats. It seems like even every ground ball Devers hits is a lot harder than anyone else's. It doesn't even seem like he has really gotten a hold of anything yet. He's not just punishing mistake pitches. He's punishing everything. All balls he hits seem to be harder than they should be. And I thought I was excited about Xander and Mookie... Devers is the one prospect to rule them all. What I love about this is that your description is how basically every scouting report on Devers's bat has read since before he signed. When the eyeball test, scouting history, and hard data all say the same thing...f'in right, doggy, that's good cake!
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 1, 2017 17:34:41 GMT -5
I never even heard of Dalton Jones and after I looked him up, I see why. What a strange addition to the list. In his rookie year when he was 20, he only hit .230/.274/.342. Isn't that curious? It's not like he got off to a fast start and burned out, he was a mediocre rookie who ran into the feat twice. The team was very badly run in those days. Jones had a beautiful LH swing. He hit .322 / .399 / .503 as a 17 y/o in what we'd now call Short-Season A ball. So they promoted him to the equivalent of AA, where he hit .309 / .356 / .428. That's still really impressive. Next year in AAA at age 19 he hit .255 / .307 / .361. Again, impressive, but nowhere ready for the show. So they promoted him to MLB because a) they had a terrible team, b) he had a good ST, and c) mostly, because he had a beautiful swing. It's like they had no sense that a guy with great hitting tools might need more than 1500 PA in the minors to learn to hit. He also had been moved off of SS in favor of Rico Petrocelli in AAA, and never learned to play 2B well, either. He does have a serious claim to fame, though. In 1967 he was hitting .220 / .282 / .320 in 111 PA on August 17. He had started 15 games (10 in one stretch from late April to early May) and pinch-hit in the rest. The rest of the way he hit .407 / .426 / .559, including a key pinch-hit single and then 2/4 in the final two victories over the Twins. He started the first four games of the WS at 3B and went 6/10 off of pitchers not named Bob Gibson (.389 / .421 / . 389 overall). With that swing and SSS performances like these ... the guy could hit. He just had zero or negative coaching and handling. He was just one of a slew of might / should-have-beens that plagued the team in those days.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 1, 2017 19:24:27 GMT -5
The full list is Devers, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams (3x), Tony C. (2x) and Dalton Jones (2x). I never even heard of Dalton Jones and after I looked him up, I see why. What a strange addition to the list. In his rookie year when he was 20, he only hit .230/.274/.342. I'm surprised you never heard of him. He along with Jerry Adair were key bench players on the Impossible Dream team of 1967, the team that saved baseball in Boston. Without looking it up I think he batted .289 that year playing a lot of 2b along with Mike Andrews. There was a special on MLB network about the 1967 team and there's a DVD in you can actually watch the entire next-to-last game of the season in color where Yaz hits his 44th HR and the Sox beat the Twins 6-4 to tie them for first as they moved 1/2 game ahead of Detroit going into the final day of the season. I highly recommend it.
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