|
Post by nonothing on Dec 15, 2017 12:51:16 GMT -5
Machado more likely than Hosmer to Sox. Machado to Sox for Bogaerts, Johnson or Shawaryn (who pitched at Maryland and would give them all 6 years and fully optional control) and Buttrey or one of our other high octane relief arms (or a lower end guy like Hembree from our current MLB roster who would give them an arm to enable them to deal a higher end guy like Brach or Britton or O'Day for much more value) would give them very solid return without negotiating window and yet cost us players we could afford to give. We should not give up more without a window to negotiate an extension.
If JDM turns out to be a $22MMish AAV signing, Machado and Martinez with Hanley and a guy like Matt Adams is a better way to spend money. Hosmer locks us up against either signing a guy like Machado LT or against doing that and Betts extension together.
1-Betts-R (RF) 2-Beni-L (LF) 3-Machado-R (SS) 4-Martinez-R (DH) 5-Devers-L (3B) 6-Ramirez/Adams-R/L (1B) 7-Bradley-L (CF) 8-Vazquez-R (C) 9-Hernandez-L (2B until Pedey is back and swap Pedey with Bradley in order)
Retains great defense (and improves it at SS) with much more power. Don't see Adams as true platoon to Hanley, but some OF, some DH and some 1B time split to give everyone a rest or to play when others are injured along with Brentz would give solid offensive boost to club 11 hitters deep. Leon and another infielder until Pedey returns (probably Marrero since the guy would be on the bench and much cheaper than a guy like Nunez, and we can trade or drop him mid-season if needed -- and as other teams might have injury hole to fill, esp if Marrero strikes gold and hits .250+ by chance so somebody might be willing to consider him LT on their roster), and that is your team on offense if we can swing it.
I would push to see if Orioles would give window though for extension and dangle Chavis in that discussion.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2017 13:07:48 GMT -5
Machado more likely than Hosmer to Sox. Machado to Sox for Bogaerts, Johnson or Shawaryn (who pitched at Maryland and would give them all 6 years and fully optional control) and Buttrey or one of our other high octane relief arms (or a lower end guy like Hembree from our current MLB roster who would give them an arm to enable them to deal a higher end guy like Brach or Britton or O'Day for much more value) would give them very solid return without negotiating window and yet cost us players we could afford to give. We should not give up more without a window to negotiate an extension. I read something to the effect that Peter Angelos wants it in writing that whichever team he trades Machado to will not flip him to an AL East team so unless that changes, I find it pretty impossible to believe. There's no way that I give up Bogaerts for 1 year of Machado. They are looking for at least two young starters, which would probably be something like ERod and Groome.
|
|
|
Post by dmaineah on Dec 15, 2017 13:12:21 GMT -5
Machado more likely than Hosmer to Sox. Machado to Sox for Bogaerts, Johnson or Shawaryn (who pitched at Maryland and would give them all 6 years and fully optional control) and Buttrey or one of our other high octane relief arms (or a lower end guy like Hembree from our current MLB roster who would give them an arm to enable them to deal a higher end guy like Brach or Britton or O'Day for much more value) would give them very solid return without negotiating window and yet cost us players we could afford to give. We should not give up more without a window to negotiate an extension. I read something to the effect that Peter Angelos wants it in writing that whichever team he trades Machado to will not flip him to an AL East team so unless that changes, I find it pretty impossible to believe. There's no way that I give up Bogaerts for 1 year of Machado. They are looking for at least two young starters, which would probably be something like ERod and Groome. That's what DD should of included in an offer for Marcell Ozuna
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2017 13:20:38 GMT -5
I read something to the effect that Peter Angelos wants it in writing that whichever team he trades Machado to will not flip him to an AL East team so unless that changes, I find it pretty impossible to believe. There's no way that I give up Bogaerts for 1 year of Machado. They are looking for at least two young starters, which would probably be something like ERod and Groome. That's what DD should of included in an offer for Marcell Ozuna The Red Sox don't need Ozuna. And don't start your JBJ crap again.
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Dec 15, 2017 14:25:11 GMT -5
Machado more likely than Hosmer to Sox. Machado to Sox for Bogaerts, Johnson or Shawaryn (who pitched at Maryland and would give them all 6 years and fully optional control) and Buttrey or one of our other high octane relief arms (or a lower end guy like Hembree from our current MLB roster who would give them an arm to enable them to deal a higher end guy like Brach or Britton or O'Day for much more value) would give them very solid return without negotiating window and yet cost us players we could afford to give. We should not give up more without a window to negotiate an extension. I read something to the effect that Peter Angelos wants it in writing that whichever team he trades Machado to will not flip him to an AL East team so unless that changes, I find it pretty impossible to believe. There's no way that I give up Bogaerts for 1 year of Machado. They are looking for at least two young starters, which would probably be something like ERod and Groome. You wouldn't trade 2 years of Xander for 1 year of Machado?
|
|
|
Post by dirtdog on Dec 15, 2017 14:39:59 GMT -5
O's are gonna want Devers for Machado. That would be a painful decision for me to make.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 15, 2017 14:45:47 GMT -5
O's are gonna want Devers for Machado. That would be a painful decision for me to make. Easy decision for me. I'd take Devers and his six seasons, a lot of them cost controlled over 1 year of Machado. I'd probably take him over Machado at this point. Machado will cost a ton. You can get another great hitter and hang onto Devers. Sign Machado and that eats up a lot of payroll. Doubt Machado would want to come here anyways.
|
|
|
Post by jiant2520 on Dec 15, 2017 15:05:14 GMT -5
First off, I really don't think they will make a deal with Boston unless the Sox way overpay for him.... which is not smart. With 1yr left and likely to go to free agency, I would not want to give up much. I think Bogaerts will have a big bounce back year to be honest. I like our team.... just get JD and Hos!!
|
|
|
Post by taftreign on Dec 15, 2017 15:10:02 GMT -5
Well from my understanding the offers for Machado may be on a lighter side than expected. Last I've read the White Sox for instance did not offer either Kopech or Giolito in there offer. The reason for this is Baltimore has said they don't anticipate giving teams a 72 hour window to work out an extension. Teams are proceeding as if he will be a one year rental and will walk into free agency next offseason.
And I would not part with Devers for Machado. Machado is definitely a superior defender but I believe Devers bat is equal or better over the next 6 seasons. Keeping a player like Devers (along with Benintendi) is a must to offset the cap crunch the Red Sox have if they legitimately want to extend any number of Betts, Bogaerts, Sale, Pomeranz, Kimberly etc. . .
|
|
bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
|
Post by bosox on Dec 15, 2017 15:14:49 GMT -5
Machado more likely than Hosmer to Sox. Machado to Sox for Bogaerts, Johnson or Shawaryn (who pitched at Maryland and would give them all 6 years and fully optional control) and Buttrey or one of our other high octane relief arms (or a lower end guy like Hembree from our current MLB roster who would give them an arm to enable them to deal a higher end guy like Brach or Britton or O'Day for much more value) would give them very solid return without negotiating window and yet cost us players we could afford to give. We should not give up more without a window to negotiate an extension. I read something to the effect that Peter Angelos wants it in writing that whichever team he trades Machado to will not flip him to an AL East team so unless that changes, I find it pretty impossible to believe. There's no way that I give up Bogaerts for 1 year of Machado. They are looking for at least two young starters, which would probably be something like ERod and Groome. Erod probably would never make through the Orioles medical review process.
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Dec 15, 2017 15:44:08 GMT -5
2 years of Bogey for one of Machado is a no brainer for us. Better defense up the middle and power at a spot hard to find power. I cannot imagine, even if you assume Bogaerts bounces back, that is not a good deal for us. I read what others have read, but they could also flip Bogaerts for a starting pitcher and something more if they wanted to. So one SP from us and Bogey and a bullpen arm ought to meet their demands. I do not see people giving up more than that or top end prospects for a year of Machado with no extension window. That is why the White Sox are not including top guys. Groome, Mata, Chavis are all off the table in a one-year offer.
And on AL East dealings -- Angelos does not want Yankees especially to get him. Would he prefer the guy go to Philly than Boston? Probably. Can Philly now do that deal with a surplus young very good OF and an infield and/or pitcher to the O's since they locked up Santana and are moving Hoskins to OF? Yup. So I am betting Philly is in play for Machado. But unless Philly or ATL (loaded with young arms, but not likely to trade them for Machado without a chance to sign LT before he becomes FA) do the deal, I don't see them getting more than what we could offer for him without hurting ourselves dealing our best prospects. Brian Johnson is going to be a legit MLB LH-SP. That would be a very nice get along with a MLB All-Star replacement at SS for 2 yrs and another player of potential value in the pen. Anyway -- will be interesting to see. Angelos' best bet to be competitive is the Sox and Yanks load up on big contracts and some of those guys get hurt so that we are both albatrossed with bad deals again. That is what NYY and BOS do to themselves repeatedly. Giving Boston a chance to ignite more spending for NYY and BOS in a testosterone laden bidding war for talent is probably not BAL's worst strategy for competing 2-3 years out.
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Dec 15, 2017 15:47:45 GMT -5
BTW, BAL knows ERod well since he came from there. He might get through medical for them because it is leg vs arm, and they know his potential. Just depends if they value ceiling fo a guy like ERod vs length of control and time window/handedness on guys like Johnson or Shawaryn. I am not sure we should want to deal ERod because we are likely to lose Pomeranz or Price in a year, but if we had Johnson still, that would be fine with me. I just think Johnson out of options is a tougher fit for our roster than for a team like BAL or another team who wants a cost-controlled likely innings eater who will not need to option him ever during the year.
So if he can be used to bring in an impact player for us like Machado -- that would seem to potentially have value to our club and the other club receiving him.
|
|
|
Post by bcpatsox18 on Dec 15, 2017 16:41:20 GMT -5
Trading two years of bogaerts, plus whatever else you have to give (Johnson, buttrey) is not a smart move. Bogey has had a year where he batted .320 (30 points above machados career best), and has also shown 20hr pop- just because he had a bad year doesn't mean you give up on him st age 24 for a guy who very well may be a rental and also trade him to a division rival. Just not smart at all. The best thing for them to do is stay out of the bidding completely and leave their left side alone
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Dec 15, 2017 20:04:26 GMT -5
Trading two years of bogaerts, plus whatever else you have to give (Johnson, buttrey) is not a smart move. Bogey has had a year where he batted .320 (30 points above machados career best), and has also shown 20hr pop- just because he had a bad year doesn't mean you give up on him st age 24 for a guy who very well may be a rental and also trade him to a division rival. Just not smart at all. The best thing for them to do is stay out of the bidding completely and leave their left side alone That would only be true if you were trading Bogaerts for low value. In this idea, you would be trading for one of the best players in the league, while also getting him from a division rival and keeping him from going to another one. The premise is not to sell low -- it is to improve the team. Do you really think we have a better chance in two years to keep Bogaerts than we do to keep Machado? Are you even sure Bogaerts' production will justify his last year of arb pay on the downside of your thinking?
|
|
|
Post by jiant2520 on Dec 15, 2017 20:22:08 GMT -5
I would keep Bogey. Don't make a trade after a down year. Next offseason, say Bogey has a good yr, but has no interest in an extension, then maybe see whats out there for him then and sell high. Personally, I would like to extend him, and Betts.
|
|
|
Post by bcpatsox18 on Dec 15, 2017 20:58:43 GMT -5
That would only be true if you were trading Bogaerts for low value. In this idea, you would be trading for one of the best players in the league, while also getting him from a division rival and keeping him from going to another one. The premise is not to sell low -- it is to improve the team. Do you really think we have a better chance in two years to keep Bogaerts than we do to keep Machado? Are you even sure Bogaerts' production will justify his last year of arb pay on the downside of your thinking? I definitely think there's a better chance you resign bogaerts than resign machado, he's been here, came up through the farm system, and it's the only team he's ever known. Put that on top of the fact machado is going to want 250+ million, I would say the odds are not just higher but much much higher. I would also argue he is on the verge of a breakout year, people are devaluing him based on an injured year last year. Machado does have a ton of value, but not enough to justify that move
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 15, 2017 22:39:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'd take 1 year of Machado over 2 years of Bogaerts. It's a tough call. I honestly believe either way you'd be shopping for a SS, whether it's in 2019 to replace Machado or 2020 to replace Bogaerts. I guess it would depend upon which offseason has a better SS market. Neither one is likely to re-sign, although if pressed I'd say Bogaerts is more likely to re-sign, but would you want to give him big money? At some point sooner than later it's likely he moves off of SS, but unless he winds up at 2b, or an outfield corner, or 3b if Devers moves to 1b, Bogaerts hasn't hit well enough to justify big money at those positions.
I think this is all a very moot point anyways - Angelos is not going allow Duquette to deal Machado away within the division, so that includes NY and Boston.
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Dec 15, 2017 22:48:03 GMT -5
Zero chance the Sox sign Bogey when he gets to FA. Watch. He is another Ellsbury. Not sure what most of you guys are smoking. You notice the team has never tried to make him a franchise face? It is because he won't be here long term. He knows it, and they know it. He is just playing games until the big deal comes in two years -- and The Sox will know he is not worth the money that somebody else is willing to give him in FA. He will get the Ellsbury deal to leave (at whatever value fits then), and he will leave, and we will never miss him because he is not a team player (or he would have been at 3B instead of SS), and he won't age well. Will he be better in 2018 and 2019 than in 2017. I bet he is. But not good enough to pass on Machado to keep him -- if that is an option for us. Btw -- newsflash after the Stanton saga -- there are not going to be a bunch of $300MM+ contracts given out in coming years when Harper and Machado hit FA. The Marlins had to chip in $30MM on an MVP to get a team to give up *any* prospects in the trade for him -- right after his MVP season. So that tells you no player is perceived to be worth $300MM. It is too much for any team to gamble on a single player. If every team did not agree to that -- the Marlins would have gotten rid of the whole Stanton contract, and they couldn't do that.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Dec 15, 2017 23:06:20 GMT -5
Zero chance the Sox sign Bogey when he gets to FA. Watch. He is another Ellsbury. Not sure what most of you guys are smoking. You notice the team has never tried to make him a franchise face? It is because he won't be here long term. He knows it, and they know it. He is just playing games until the big deal comes in two years -- and The Sox will know he is not worth the money that somebody else is willing to give him in FA. He will get the Ellsbury deal to leave (at whatever value fits then), and he will leave, and we will never miss him because he is not a team player (or he would have been at 3B instead of SS), and he won't age well. Will he be better in 2018 and 2019 than in 2017. I bet he is. But not good enough to pass on Machado to keep him -- if that is an option for us. Btw -- newsflash after the Stanton saga -- there are not going to be a bunch of $300MM+ contracts given out in coming years when Harper and Machado hit FA. The Marlins had to chip in $30MM on an MVP to get a team to give up *any* prospects in the trade for him -- right after his MVP season. So that tells you no player is perceived to be worth $300MM. It is too much for any team to gamble on a single player. If every team did not agree to that -- the Marlins would have gotten rid of the whole Stanton contract, and they couldn't do that. He’s not the franchise face because he hasn’t put together his .320 with 25+ HR. Hard stop.
|
|
|
Post by Smittyw on Dec 17, 2017 9:22:06 GMT -5
O's are gonna want Devers for Machado. That would be a painful decision for me to make. It would? No offense intended whatsoever, but I'm not sure why anyone would even entertain that idea.
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Dec 17, 2017 14:07:39 GMT -5
Just say no to Manny Machado.
|
|
|
Post by dmaineah on Dec 18, 2017 13:10:57 GMT -5
That's what DD should of included in an offer for Marcell Ozuna The Red Sox don't need Ozuna. And don't start your JBJ crap again.
Ozuna would have been a major upgrade over JBJ because he would of been the middle of the order bat the team needs. They could of then moved JBJ & possibly others like Swihart & Johnson & Hembree in a package for pithing prospects.
DD blew a great opportunity on Ozuna
|
|
|
Post by dmaineah on Dec 18, 2017 13:13:05 GMT -5
Just say no to Manny Machado. Agree
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 18, 2017 15:25:37 GMT -5
The Red Sox don't need Ozuna. And don't start your JBJ crap again.
Ozuna would have been a major upgrade over JBJ because he would of been the middle of the order bat the team needs. They could of then moved JBJ & possibly others like Swihart & Johnson & Hembree in a package for pithing prospects.
DD blew a great opportunity on Ozuna He was told we didn't have the major league ready pitching prospects the Marlins wanted.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Dec 20, 2017 0:32:00 GMT -5
|
|