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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 10:53:10 GMT -5
They could improve though. Fine is great as long as you're content with just division titles. Do we really need to go back about 10 years and look at the quality of catchers for WS champs? Fine is great when you care about the future. I'm not going to empty the farm system and leave the team with no prospects to fill holes that could be created by season ending injuries. The competition in the AL is as good as ever, it really isn't a good comparison comparing other seasons to this season. You have 3 other teams that are just as good if not better than the Sox right now. Any edge or opportunity should taken if you want to give yourself the best opportunity to win now.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 10:55:03 GMT -5
The Victor Martinez trade in 2009 is the reason why I'm not concerned about this trade. You have a pitching staff full of veteran pitchers, they won't stink all because Vazquez and Leon aren't catching anymore. Realmuto has improved each year he's been in the league and he's right handed playing at home in Fenway Park. He also has a career 42 percent pull percentage. Really, you can't find a better trade candidate to improve this team this deadline. And I can't think of a trade that would decimate the farm system more than trading for Realmuto. Let's trade for Trout too. No, not Trout. He's not even available. Realmuto will be there though. It's going to hurt, but winning is clearly the priority.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 10:58:38 GMT -5
And I can't think of a trade that would decimate the farm system more than trading for Realmuto. Let's trade for Trout too. No, not Trout. He's not even available. Realmuto will be there though. It's going to hurt, but winning is clearly the priority. I think it's incredibly stupid. But I'll let you get the last word. Super teams rarely win the WS.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:00:14 GMT -5
No, not Trout. He's not even available. Realmuto will be there though. It's going to hurt, but winning is clearly the priority. I think it's incredibly stupid. But I'll let you get the last word. It's not stupid. This team would be better. That is really all that matters right now. Dave Dombrowski will pull the trigger, if he sees fit. I have no doubt about that.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:04:34 GMT -5
What matters is making the playoffs, not trying to turn a team on pace to win 100 games into a team that needs to win 105. What they trade now affects what they can trade for later in the season if there's a bigger need and what they can trade for next season when there's a bigger need. And there's plenty of reason to believe that Vazquez will improve and not be as bad as he's been.
They don't have to have all-stars at every position and they don't have to win every single f'ing game.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:08:41 GMT -5
Plus if he were actually available, I don't see how there's no team that would easily beat what the Red Sox can offer.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:12:59 GMT -5
The Sox goal isn't just making the playoffs, it's competing for the Yankees to win the division first and foremost. You might *need* a 100 win team to do this.
This is the only trade I want to see in season, period. I'll roll the dice on the bullpen and on Thornburg looking great.
Vazquez will improve because frankly, he can't get much worse. He has a ceiling of a average catcher and it looks like he'll be a below average one throughout the course of the season.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:16:13 GMT -5
The Sox goal isn't just making the playoffs, it's competing for the Yankees to win the division first and foremost. You might *need* a 100 win team to do this. This is the only trade I want to see in season, period. I'll roll the dice on the bullpen and on Thornburg looking great. Vazquez will improve because frankly, he can't get much worse. He has a ceiling of a average catcher and it looks like he'll be a below average one throughout the course of the season. Only because you think you can see the future. I don't know how many times you've been called out for jumping to ridiculous conclusions after short samples. You seem to think that baseball is exactly like the NBA, when in reality, the best teams lose 40% of the time and the best players fail 70% of the time when they're batting. Trying to build a 100+ win team is just not caring whatsoever about the future, even the immediate future. If you trade for Realmuto and then Mookie or Xander tear their ACL, then what?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:17:00 GMT -5
Plus if he were actually available, I don't see how there's no team that would easily beat what the Red Sox can offer. You're talking about the Sox beating 2 or maybe 3 teams in the D-Backs, Mets, and Nationals. The Mets and Nationals have similar bad farm systems. Not sure about Arizona.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:19:33 GMT -5
Plus if he were actually available, I don't see how there's no team that would easily beat what the Red Sox can offer. You're talking about the Sox beating 2 or maybe 3 teams in the D-Backs, Mets, and Nationals. The Mets and Nationals have similar bad farm systems. Not sure about Arizona. Then I imagine they have zero interest in trading Realmuto.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:21:06 GMT -5
The Sox goal isn't just making the playoffs, it's competing for the Yankees to win the division first and foremost. You might *need* a 100 win team to do this. This is the only trade I want to see in season, period. I'll roll the dice on the bullpen and on Thornburg looking great. Vazquez will improve because frankly, he can't get much worse. He has a ceiling of a average catcher and it looks like he'll be a below average one throughout the course of the season. Only because you think you can see the future. I don't know how many times you've been called out for jumping to ridiculous conclusions after short samples. You seem to think that baseball is exactly like the NBA, when in reality, the best teams lose 40% of the time and the best players fail 70% of the time when they're batting. Trying to build a 100+ win team is just not caring whatsoever about the future, even the immediate future. If you trade for Realmuto and then Mookie or Xander tear their ACL, then what? Then The baseball gods took a big sh*t on you and you have to deal with it. Trying to build a 100 plus win team is *exactly* what the Sox have been aiming for the past 2 years. This isn't ridiculous conclusions. I'm using bWAR, I'm using projections, I'm clearly using facts. None of the things I have said are wrong. I don't see the Yankees going away anytime soon. You have to try and be better than them or you literally just took a dump on the Chris Sale trade.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:22:31 GMT -5
You're talking about the Sox beating 2 or maybe 3 teams in the D-Backs, Mets, and Nationals. The Mets and Nationals have similar bad farm systems. Not sure about Arizona. Then I imagine they have zero interest in trading Realmuto. They should or Dombrowski isn't properly doing his job correctly.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:28:20 GMT -5
Only because you think you can see the future. I don't know how many times you've been called out for jumping to ridiculous conclusions after short samples. You seem to think that baseball is exactly like the NBA, when in reality, the best teams lose 40% of the time and the best players fail 70% of the time when they're batting. Trying to build a 100+ win team is just not caring whatsoever about the future, even the immediate future. If you trade for Realmuto and then Mookie or Xander tear their ACL, then what? Then The baseball gods took a big sh*t on you and you have to deal with it. Trying to build a 100 plus win team is *exactly* what the Sox have been aiming for the past 2 years. This isn't ridiculous conclusions. I'm using bWAR, I'm using projections, I'm clearly using facts. None of the things I have said are wrong. I don't see the Yankees going away anytime soon. You have to try and be better than them or you literally just took a dump on the Chris Sale trade. Yep, deal with it by using the assets that you didn't trade to fill a much bigger need. Vazquez had the same amount of fWAR as McCann last year and he won the WS. They have a team capable of winning 100 now. No matter what the Yankees do, the Red Sox cannot just be idiots by mortgaging the future so much that they have nothing to build on after next season. With so many playoff games and rounds, the best regular season team ever has a very slight advantage over 9 other teams to win the WS, but that chance is still always under 20%. This is not the NBA where you almost always know who is going to win based on health.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:30:45 GMT -5
Then I imagine they have zero interest in trading Realmuto. They should or Dombrowski isn't properly doing his job correctly. He can't do his job by offering top prospects because we don't have any. Why would they be so dumb to trade Realmuto and not get top talent back? They aren't forced to trade him for less than he's worth.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:38:55 GMT -5
Then The baseball gods took a big sh*t on you and you have to deal with it. Trying to build a 100 plus win team is *exactly* what the Sox have been aiming for the past 2 years. This isn't ridiculous conclusions. I'm using bWAR, I'm using projections, I'm clearly using facts. None of the things I have said are wrong. I don't see the Yankees going away anytime soon. You have to try and be better than them or you literally just took a dump on the Chris Sale trade. Yep, deal with it by using the assets that you didn't trade to fill a much bigger need. Vazquez had the same amount of fWAR as McCann last year and he won the WS. They have a team capable of winning 100 now. No matter what the Yankees do, the Red Sox cannot just be idiots by mortgaging the future so much that they have nothing to build on after next season. With so many playoff games and rounds, the best regular season team ever has a very slight advantage over 9 other teams to win the WS, but that chance is still always under 20%. This is not the NBA where you almost always know who is going to win based on health. As of this season name a bigger need than the catching position, especially if the bullpen gets sorted out once Thornburg comes back. The Sox wouldn't be idiots for trading for Realmuto. They'd be increasing their odds of making a deep playoff run. Even if it's 5 percent or less. Every advantage is needed in the AL playoff bracket right now. The Astros had one of the best offenses in the last 50 years. The Sox don't have that this year. Comparing McCann in the Astros lineup to Vazquez in the Sox lineup doesn't mean much in this regard.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:41:10 GMT -5
Yep, deal with it by using the assets that you didn't trade to fill a much bigger need. Vazquez had the same amount of fWAR as McCann last year and he won the WS. They have a team capable of winning 100 now. No matter what the Yankees do, the Red Sox cannot just be idiots by mortgaging the future so much that they have nothing to build on after next season. With so many playoff games and rounds, the best regular season team ever has a very slight advantage over 9 other teams to win the WS, but that chance is still always under 20%. This is not the NBA where you almost always know who is going to win based on health. As of this season name a bigger need than the catching position, especially if the bullpen gets sorted out once Thornburg comes back. The Sox wouldn't be idiots for trading for Realmuto. They'd be increasing their odds of making a deep playoff run. Even if it's 5 percent or less. Every advantage is needed in the AL playoff bracket right now. The Astros had one of the best offenses in the last 50 years. The Sox don't have that this year. Comparing McCann in the Astros lineup to Vazquez in the Sox lineup doesn't mean much in this regard. We don't have a real need now. What you're advocating is taking a team with possibly a 16% chance of winning the world series and giving them a 17 or 18% chance. That's the reality for teams making the playoffs now. Fangraphs and 538 Sports has them projected to win 99 right now.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:41:49 GMT -5
They should or Dombrowski isn't properly doing his job correctly. He can't do his job by offering top prospects because we don't have any. Why would they be so dumb to trade Realmuto and not get top talent back? They aren't forced to trade him for less than he's worth. The Sox have plenty if they want to pull the trigger. They have 2 former top 100 prospects and depth behind it. It's very possible if they wanted to push all their chips on the table. Maybe I wasn't thinking about a good enough offer. Maybe it would have to take a Groome and Chavis, but prospects be d*mned in this case. There won't be a better opportunity to win than now. I'm just dealing with the reality of the situation that this team is in right now.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:43:43 GMT -5
He can't do his job by offering top prospects because we don't have any. Why would they be so dumb to trade Realmuto and not get top talent back? They aren't forced to trade him for less than he's worth. The Sox have plenty if they want to pull the trigger. They have 2 former top 100 prospects and depth behind it. It's very possible if they wanted to push all their chips on the table. Maybe I wasn't thinking about a good enough offer. Maybe it would have to take a Groome and Chavis, but prospects be d*mned in this case. There won't be a better opportunity to win than now. I'm just dealing with the reality of the situation that this team is in right now. Yeah well the problem is that Groome and Chavis are damaged goods right now and they're our two top prospects. Teams won't want them except at a big discount. Also, former prospects are about worthless if they're not producing. If I were Miami, I'd want an Acuna/Moncada type of prospect and hold onto him if one weren't available.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:45:35 GMT -5
As of this season name a bigger need than the catching position, especially if the bullpen gets sorted out once Thornburg comes back. The Sox wouldn't be idiots for trading for Realmuto. They'd be increasing their odds of making a deep playoff run. Even if it's 5 percent or less. Every advantage is needed in the AL playoff bracket right now. The Astros had one of the best offenses in the last 50 years. The Sox don't have that this year. Comparing McCann in the Astros lineup to Vazquez in the Sox lineup doesn't mean much in this regard. We don't have a real need now. What you're advocating is taking a team with possibly a 16% chance of winning the world series and giving them a 17 or 18% chance. That's the reality for teams making the playoffs now. Fangraphs and 538 Sports has them projected to win 99 right now. Give me those increased odds then.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:47:08 GMT -5
We don't have a real need now. What you're advocating is taking a team with possibly a 16% chance of winning the world series and giving them a 17 or 18% chance. That's the reality for teams making the playoffs now. Fangraphs and 538 Sports has them projected to win 99 right now. Give me those increased odds then. That's nuts. Maybe we should have signed every single free agent in the offseason too, future be damned.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 11:53:16 GMT -5
Give me those increased odds then. That's nuts. Maybe we should have signed every single free agent in the offseason too, future be damned. Not nuts. Need to win now.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 11:58:06 GMT -5
That's nuts. Maybe we should have signed every single free agent in the offseason too, future be damned. Not nuts. Need to win now. Then you should be arguing to go over 237. Way, way over. Why aren't you arguing to call up Castillo?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 12:22:05 GMT -5
Not nuts. Need to win now. Then you should be arguing to go over 237. Way, way over. Why aren't you arguing to call up Castillo? The Sox aren't going to do it. Henry doesn't like to be too fiscal with real money.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 5, 2018 12:24:31 GMT -5
The Sox have plenty if they want to pull the trigger. They have 2 former top 100 prospects and depth behind it. It's very possible if they wanted to push all their chips on the table. Maybe I wasn't thinking about a good enough offer. Maybe it would have to take a Groome and Chavis, but prospects be d*mned in this case. There won't be a better opportunity to win than now. I'm just dealing with the reality of the situation that this team is in right now. Yeah well the problem is that Groome and Chavis are damaged goods right now and they're our two top prospects. Teams won't want them except at a big discount. Also, former prospects are about worthless if they're not producing. If I were Miami, I'd want an Acuna/Moncada type of prospect and hold onto him if one weren't available. I'd like to offer prospects and see what happens before just assuming "damaged prospects won't work." Maybe Groome gets healthy and starts producing. Maybe they love Mata and want him to be included. You don't know unless you do your job which is what Dombrowski should do this deadline.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2018 12:33:55 GMT -5
Then you should be arguing to go over 237. Way, way over. Why aren't you arguing to call up Castillo? The Sox aren't going to do it. Henry doesn't like to be too fiscal with real money. Right, they care about the future and don't want to destroy it by having no financial flexibility. Kinda like how they're not going to leave the farm system with no prospects left at all just to give a team projected to win 99 games an extra 1-2% chance of winning the WS.
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