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Post by prangerx on May 25, 2018 10:48:06 GMT -5
One thing that confuses me. If he gets his plate apearances with another team...Does that mean the option can still Vest with us on the hook? Or did it have to be with the Red Sox?
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Post by sarasoxer on May 25, 2018 10:48:21 GMT -5
Also, who is the backup 1B now. This has to be Pedroia countermove, so that assumes they won't be calling up Travis. Nunez. Or Swihart. I thought if he can play third, he can play first. In that case he'd hit RH. As to Hanley, I suspect the looming prospect of his vesting or him grousing if not playing enough to get there might have played.🚽
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2018 10:49:38 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm not crazy about the move.
I get it. It's all about not letting him get the $22 million option.
But while I know his Miami Hanley days are way behind him, I still think he was capable of putting up a season like he did in 2016. He got off to a fast start this year and has been terrible in May.
That said, I still think he would have rebounded and hit better as the year progressed and he's been their best hitter in October the past two seasons.
I thought he needed to be moved down in the order to #6 or #7, but not DFA'd.
So now that means the Sox are forced to live with JBJ's bat the rest of the year and they have to hope that Moreland doesn't tail off and put up his career norms. I get that his toe issues slowed him down last year and he's looked great this year. I just think his numbers will tail off with more playing time, just as Hanley's have trailed off.
If JBJ doesn't hit a lick, then what? They already have nothing out of catching and they refuse to play Swihart behind the plate and he doesn't really hit well enough to be a constant presence in the outfield or at 1b or DH.
Honestly if Hanley was hitting the way he was hitting in April, I could like with his option vesting, and I get they don't want it to vest....but for 2018 I think it's going to hurt this team. It's not like they have a strong bat in AAA they can bring up. I think this thins their lineup depth.
If JBJ doesn't hit, the Sox might now have to look to get another bat. Keep in mind Devers, who will be great, is below average offensively right now, so that's 3 spots and hoping Pedroia comes back healthy.
And yeah, I know Hanley's numbers now have dipped to below average. I just believe he had some rebound left in him this year and would have put up a .270 BA with an OPS around .800 or so.
I'm kind of stunned.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on May 25, 2018 10:50:02 GMT -5
Hanley embraced the TB12 training methods this offseason. Perhaps Belichick talked his buddy Larussa about sending a message to TB12 devotees that you need to produce if he train using the TB12 methods. LOl.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 25, 2018 10:52:33 GMT -5
I know people here don’t really believe in human element and focus etc but I’ll throw this out there anyway. Who would you rather have in the lineup come playoffs? A focused Hanley Mitch Moreland Eduardo Nunez Blake Swithart Short of Hanley flipping out and saying he’d be a problem if they didn’t give him enough at bats to vest his option, this makes no sense. The team is worse come October by not having Hanley. However, it’s entirely possible he made it clear they wouldn’t want him around if he wasn’t playing enough for his option to vest. I would rather have Mitch Moreland, maybe Swihart dpending on the matchup and how he plays the rest of the year (assuming he'll some AB's now)
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Post by GyIantosca on May 25, 2018 10:52:36 GMT -5
I love this FO. I love this FO.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 25, 2018 10:52:43 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me what a vesting option is? I know it has something to do about their condition, but how is it decided? A vesting option is when an option year vests when certain conditions are met. Hanley's 2019 option vested if he reached 1050 plate appearances for 2017-18 combined.
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Post by jimed14 on May 25, 2018 10:53:38 GMT -5
One thing that confuses me. If he gets his plate apearances with another team...Does that mean the option can still Vest with us on the hook? Or did it have to be with the Red Sox? That's a good question that I'm waiting for an answer on.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 25, 2018 10:54:32 GMT -5
One thing that confuses me. If he gets his plate apearances with another team...Does that mean the option can still Vest with us on the hook? Or did it have to be with the Red Sox? Great question and I don't know the answer. I tried to look at the CBA and couldn't figure it out from that. I might try again now that this actually happened.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on May 25, 2018 10:55:06 GMT -5
Also, who is the backup 1B now. This has to be Pedroia countermove, so that assumes they won't be calling up Travis. Swihart, Nunez, and if necessary Holt. All are as good, if not better 1st basemen
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Post by jmei on May 25, 2018 10:55:08 GMT -5
Strictly from an on-field projected performance perspective, not sure this was the best move. Steamer/ZiPS still project Hanley to be one of Boston's better hitters, for instance (fifth, behind Devers and ahead of Bogaerts; 13 points of wOBA and 32 points of OPS better than Moreland), and even with his defensive/baserunning limitations, that's at worst a useful part-time player (projected 0.7 WAR over the rest of the year, which is on par with Moreland in similar playing time). More a clubhouse perspective, though, not sure Hanley would have been comfortable in a part-time role, and in that case, it makes some sense. That said, I think I still would have preferred to DFA Swihart, DFA Nunez or option one of Holt or Bradley.
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Post by jdb on May 25, 2018 10:55:16 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me what a vesting option is? I know it has something to do about their condition, but how is it decided? A vesting option is when an option year vests when certain conditions are met. Hanley's 2019 option vested if he reached 1050 plate appearances for 2017-18 combined. But doesn’t he have to pass a physical too? I’ve always thought that could be a hurdle for him given his health.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 25, 2018 10:55:51 GMT -5
I'm pretty shocked at this, but I expect that they'll be able to eat enough money to trade him and possibly save a few bucks that could be used in other ways, such as bringing up Castillo.I don't really understand the elation from anyone. Hanley is an awesome dude and does work hard. I'm kind of sad about this. I guess this is one way of getting him out of the #3 spot. Go look at how Castillo is doing this year. There's zero reason to call him up. The new provision in the CBA that even money you outright off the 40-man continues to count towards the CBT killed any chance Castillo had of making the majors this year.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 25, 2018 10:57:05 GMT -5
A vesting option is when an option year vests when certain conditions are met. Hanley's 2019 option vested if he reached 1050 plate appearances for 2017-18 combined. But doesn’t he have to pass a physical too? I’ve always thought that could be a hurdle for him given his health. Yes, I'd wondered about this too given his offseason shoulder surgery. However, I think the problem was that if he was healthy enough to get through the season with enough PAs to make the option vest, they didn't want to leave it to the physical.
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Post by jbuttah on May 25, 2018 10:57:12 GMT -5
One thing that confuses me. If he gets his plate apearances with another team...Does that mean the option can still Vest with us on the hook? Or did it have to be with the Red Sox? Great question and I don't know the answer. I tried to look at the CBA and couldn't figure it out from that. I might try again now that this actually happened. Gotta trust DD on this one. There's no way they'd have DFA'd Ramirez if there was a chance someone could pick him up on waivers and give him enough ABs to get the option to vest if the Sox would be on the hook for 2019.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 25, 2018 10:57:28 GMT -5
Given how RHP-heavy that Houston, Cleveland, and New York are, I'd rather have Moreland in October. He hits righties better and he's better defensively by a lot. And I'm not carrying the banner for the Mitch Moreland fan club or anything. You have more faith I’m Moreland than me.
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Post by prangerx on May 25, 2018 10:58:02 GMT -5
Its an odd move for a team trying to win now. Despite his recent slump, HAnley has the potential for power that few have on the team. They could havve just sent Bradley to the minors if they wanted to keep Blake. If his option can still vest with someone else, its even more baffling.
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Post by terriblehondo on May 25, 2018 10:58:24 GMT -5
Interesting move. I don't think they are a better team this year by doing it. But not having the option vest and keeping Blake makes sense to me and will probably make them better next year.
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Post by jmei on May 25, 2018 10:58:39 GMT -5
One thing that confuses me. If he gets his plate apearances with another team...Does that mean the option can still Vest with us on the hook? Or did it have to be with the Red Sox? That's a good question that I'm waiting for an answer on. I think it depends on whether he is released and signs a new contract with another team or whether he is traded or has his contract claimed by another team. If he's released, I'd think the old contract is terminated and the vesting provision goes away. If he is claimed/traded, he's still on his current contract, and if he hits the PAs mark, he gets an additional year with his new team.
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Post by jimed14 on May 25, 2018 10:58:59 GMT -5
Its an odd move for a team trying to win now. Despite his recent slump, HAnley has the potential for power that few have on the team. They could havve just sent Bradley to the minors if they wanted to keep Blake. If his option can still vest with someone else, its even more baffling. Yeah, well it seems that they've been waiting on Hanley's potential for about 3 of the last 3.5 seasons.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 25, 2018 11:00:58 GMT -5
This is not a move Cora would of done, This is DD knowing what he has and maybe tired of Hanley’s act. It’s a ballsy move. DD did not sign Hanley and it shows he is tired of him. I approve. I am shocked.
Obviously this is my opinion and I have no source.
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Post by James Dunne on May 25, 2018 11:01:30 GMT -5
RE: The vesting option
Here's my take, though I would leave it to the lawyers: If someone were to take on Hanley's contract, they would be on the hook for the vesting option. If he clears waivers and is released, he would sign a totally new contract, and the Red Sox tax hit would be only the remaining 2018 salary minus whatever he signed for the rest of the season. Since it would be a totally new contract, it would not have the vesting option. He would be bound to his new contract, which probably isn't going to give him the vesting language, and if it did it would fall on the team signing him.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 25, 2018 11:02:10 GMT -5
Given how RHP-heavy that Houston, Cleveland, and New York are, I'd rather have Moreland in October. He hits righties better and he's better defensively by a lot. And I'm not carrying the banner for the Mitch Moreland fan club or anything. You have more faith I’m Moreland than me.
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Post by James Dunne on May 25, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5
Given how RHP-heavy that Houston, Cleveland, and New York are, I'd rather have Moreland in October. He hits righties better and he's better defensively by a lot. And I'm not carrying the banner for the Mitch Moreland fan club or anything. You have more faith I’m Moreland than me. I probably do not.
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Post by greatscottcooper on May 25, 2018 11:03:28 GMT -5
f this is the real Hanley you're getting, then cut your losses now and avoid paying him the big bucks next year. With the system looking weak, it makes sense to give Swihart more time. Swihart might still have a future here, while Hanley certainly does not.
What I want to know is, if there are utility at bats for Blake in that role how much time have they dedicated to him learning those positions? has he been taking ground balls at 3B/2B pre-game? has he been taking any flyballs? time behind the plate?
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