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Post by voiceofreason on May 25, 2018 12:27:39 GMT -5
I think I have more confidence in Moreland than most. He has been very productive when healthy while in Boston hopefully that continues!
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Post by mattpicard on May 25, 2018 12:30:30 GMT -5
Moreland is fine, but I'd like to at least somewhat limit his starts vs LHP's. Swihart and Nunez are less than ideal options for 1B vs LHP duty... Sam Travis hasn't hit nearly well enough to deserve a call up, but his offense vs LHP has always ranged from average-ish to really good.
Moving or DL'ing Nunez to free up a spot for someone would be nice. For now, I'd keep Holt over him, in large part because Pedroia is going to get a good chunk of off days, and I never want to see Nunez fielding at second base again.
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Post by widewordofsport on May 25, 2018 12:31:49 GMT -5
I like the move... I like giving Moreland/Swihart a chance... I could also see this backfiring bigtime, because that's still a bat and they have no hitters in the system.
They do have one hitter who is MLB ready, though even with the salary dump, I can't see them calling up Rusney ever.
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Post by dirtdog on May 25, 2018 12:34:46 GMT -5
Three thoughts though surprised by this news. 1) I never thought the FO wanted Hanley to vest for 2019.
2) Based on what happened with the Dodgers I never thought Hanley was great for team chemistry.
3) Travis hasnt been the same player since tearing up his knee and the farm system is in the midst of a drought. Nobody of impact or close to a call up.
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Post by awall on May 25, 2018 12:35:26 GMT -5
can get anyone useful "
I just don't see anybody touching him until he clears so they won't be getting anything. Nobody will deal with that option even if they don't intend on letting it vest. I don't remember any contract that large that caused a club to sit a healthy player preventing him from PA's needed? Looks like the RS just didn't want to deal with that. If he was hitting they would have waited but I'm convinced they weren't going the whole season with him. The slump just moved things up. This. No way they are getting anyone at all for Hanley. no matter how much of the remainder of the 15 mill for this year they are willing to eat?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 25, 2018 12:36:12 GMT -5
That scream you all just heard....it actually came from Tunisia !!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 25, 2018 12:39:16 GMT -5
The bottom line is I thing their hand was forced. Hanley in a reduced role would likely be problematic, in general. Someone will want him, we will get tiny monetary relief, no option.... I just wonder if Cora was fighting it. Didn't read the thread, sorry if has been covered.
Big shocker here. I do feel bad for Hanley, but am happy with the move.
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Post by Guidas on May 25, 2018 12:44:25 GMT -5
Also, who is the backup 1B now. This has to be Pedroia countermove, so that assumes they won't be calling up Travis. Travis is not currently profiling as a AAA first baseman, never mind an MLB back-up
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Post by Guidas on May 25, 2018 12:45:14 GMT -5
Also, who is the backup 1B now. This has to be Pedroia countermove, so that assumes they won't be calling up Travis. Nunez. Epic troll. I think Holt has played a few games there. Maybe it's Swihart.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on May 25, 2018 12:48:16 GMT -5
Rotating guys thru the DH position is not a bad idea at all. The way Cora is thinking, saving these guys a little by taking them off the field and just hitting may keep them fresher. With Pedy back and Moreland now the 1st basemen, our defense, especially on the right side, has jumped up several levels. We all know how poorly Nunez and Hanley were range wise.
I like it for several reasons. One big one for me is not "giving" Swihart away. Over 162 games, often a catcher goes down. With what is at Pawtucket, we might have had to go out and pick up someone elses 3rd best catcher. No thanks!
Nunez may get the reps at 1st against lefties, but I hope they use Swihart there for an extended period of time.
NOW....with us not having to pay Hanley 22 million next year, let's hope DD goes all out to extend both Mookie and Xander.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 25, 2018 12:52:58 GMT -5
Hanley's current fWAR is -0.1
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Post by marrcus on May 25, 2018 12:55:27 GMT -5
Gammons Verified account @pgammo 2h2 hours ago
iThe Red Sox will cite Hanley Ramirez's performance, but this is about $2M (sic)off the books for 2019; preventing the 497 qualifying PAs was awkward. They have Kimbrel, Kelly, Pomeranz FA's this winter, Bogaerts, Sale, Porcello in 2019 and are nowhere with Betts(2020). ----------------
I can just hear DD saying well 'you have to produce and we weren't seeing it.' We intended to have Hanley on the team in '19'. They didn't as Peter says here.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 25, 2018 12:56:20 GMT -5
Tangential....BC's 2 big FA 2015 signings will produce -0.8 bWAR (for the team) for about 183 million....give or take.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2018 12:59:08 GMT -5
Still trying to digest this.
For 2019 this is a great move.
For 2018 this is a bad move.
I have trouble believing that going forward that Moreland getting more ABs and Swihart getting DH/1b ABs will be better than what Hanley would have given them.
Hanley was in a slump. I think he would have come out of it and given them something not too far off from what they got out of him in 2016.
Now the Sox have to have JBJ hitting - good luck there. Moreland has to continue to produce and can't fall back to his normal numbers.
It's nice that Swihart might get to play more and he's a good hitter - for a catcher. But I don't think he's more productive as a hitter than Hanley would be going forward this year. The money is already spent so it's not a $ per production thing.
Now I think the Sox will wind up having to get somebody like an Adam Jones in a deal if JBJ doesn't hit, so the Sox will pay with young talent which they don't have an overabundance of or they'll have to get another RH 1b/DH bat and shoehorn JDM back into LF with Benintendi in CF.
Guess it'll be interesting to see who bats 3rd tonight. I'm going to guess we see Pedroia in that spot going forward, so Betts will still have nobody to drive in when he comes up.
I really think this move will hurt them the rest of the season and into October. I trusted Hanley more as a hitter the past two seasons in October than anybody else.
Now all it's going to take is one big injury and the Sox will be scrambling. We'd see Sam Travis who has regressed or who knows because the system doesn't have anybody really ready to come up and contribute. The major league depth has been thinned.
I'd much rather have seen JBJ get sent down to AAA for a bit to get his swing squared away instead of watching him flail away every night.
I don't think it's a good move for a team with playoff aspirations.
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Post by mattpicard on May 25, 2018 13:01:09 GMT -5
Epic troll. I think Holt has played a few games there. Maybe it's Swihart. No way I want to see Holt at first base. But as Pedroia is eased into being an every day player, Nunez's role is up in the air just as much as Swihart's. Starting one in ten games at third base for Devers can't warrant a spot, and I don't think anyone is looking for an Eduardo Nunez DH/LF experience.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2018 13:01:57 GMT -5
But for 2019 I get it. I just wish the Sox would have managed Hanley better. Maybe give him a few days off when he's slumping.
Well this should settle one thing. That 237 figure or whatever the threshold rises up to - it's no soft cap. It's a hard cap. A line the Sox aren't going to step over.
And I get that they want to have money to give to their players, perhaps bring back Kimbrel, or go after somebody they might need, so long-term the move makes sense.
It's just a shame that a team that is totally going for it this year is making a move that best serves them in 2019 and hurts them in 2018 - a year where they might be at the pinnacle of their talent.
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Post by wildsox on May 25, 2018 13:09:13 GMT -5
Also, who is the backup 1B now. This has to be Pedroia countermove, so that assumes they won't be calling up Travis. Travis is not currently profiling as a AAA first baseman, never mind an MLB back-up Travis always seemed to me to be one of those guys that would hit better in the Majors than he did in the Minors. I was happy with his at-bats with the big club last year.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 25, 2018 13:11:14 GMT -5
But for 2019 I get it. I just wish the Sox would have managed Hanley better. Maybe give him a few days off when he's slumping. Well this should settle one thing. That 237 figure or whatever the threshold rises up to - it's no soft cap. It's a hard cap. A line the Sox aren't going to step over. And I get that they want to have money to give to their players, perhaps bring back Kimbrel, or go after somebody they might need, so long-term the move makes sense. It's just a shame that a team that is totally going for it this year is making a move that best serves them in 2019 and hurts them in 2018 - a year where they might be at the pinnacle of their talent. Champs....I just don't know if there was a manageable way of doing that. Realistically, it becomes a story simply because of the vesting option. Any appearance of a diminished role is going to bring the option into the conversation. Others have pointed out, are folks just waiting for a magical Hanley bat to appear and make things good. He has been pretty bad lately.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on May 25, 2018 13:14:16 GMT -5
Just finished a 15 hour drive to Nashville. Pleasant surprise to end it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2018 13:22:46 GMT -5
But for 2019 I get it. I just wish the Sox would have managed Hanley better. Maybe give him a few days off when he's slumping. Well this should settle one thing. That 237 figure or whatever the threshold rises up to - it's no soft cap. It's a hard cap. A line the Sox aren't going to step over. And I get that they want to have money to give to their players, perhaps bring back Kimbrel, or go after somebody they might need, so long-term the move makes sense. It's just a shame that a team that is totally going for it this year is making a move that best serves them in 2019 and hurts them in 2018 - a year where they might be at the pinnacle of their talent. Champs....I just don't know if there was a manageable way of doing that. Realistically, it becomes a story simply because of the vesting option. Any appearance of a diminished role is going to bring the option into the conversation. Others have pointed out, are folks just waiting for a magical Hanley bat to appear and make things good. He has been pretty bad lately. Yup. I think it's really all about the vesting option and guessing what Hanley gives you going forward and is it worth it? Say he rebounds and he hits .270 with 25 - 30 homers, knocks in 100 and has an OPS around .800. That's a good performance that helps the Red Sox particularly if JBJ continues to slump or if Moreland tails off. I think that's helpful to the 2018 Red Sox - but is it worth $22 million for 2019 when he's a year older and the Sox have other contracts to consider? I totally get it. JBJ's bat forced Moreland into the lineup where he's done a good job. If JBJ was reviving with the bat and Moreland continues to hit, it's easier to justify sitting Hanley - particularly when he's in a brutal 10 game stretch like he's been. If JBJ had been hitting well you feel comfortable penciling him in for 600 plate appearances and you can justify splitting up Hanley and Moreland instead of them both in the lineup at the same time and keep Hanley under 497. He might not like it, but I don't think he would have given the Sox problems with his attitude. And that's a big thing for me to say - given how much I hated his "attitude" when he came to the Sox. Hanley did win me over with his attitude. I honestly think he was a positive. I grew to like him. I think he would have been a great guy for 400 plate appearances or so, but JBJ's struggles made that hard for them to do. It's all related in a way. I do think the Sox are going to need help offensively - beyond Pedroia coming back. The catching is abysmal. Our CF's offense is worse. Devers has been below average offensively although that can change and I think it will - if he stops hacking all the time. I do think he'll play better (just to be clear). Moreland has never been much more than average and that would need to change. This lineup has some holes in it. In the regular season it might not stop them much but it could hurt them worse in the post-season. At the moment Hanley was one of those holes, but I still think he had his upside. But really it came down to - was it worth the $22 million in 2019 and the answer they came up with is no. Now they have to replace what I think Hanley would have given them going forward. We'll see. I think the Sox will get a reliever, but I think they'll get some sort of depth bat - not a major star, but somebody who can be utilized often and hit reasonably well.
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danr
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Post by danr on May 25, 2018 13:26:08 GMT -5
The Sox have to be keeping Nunez because they don't know what Pedroia is going to do and because there always is the risk of a re-injury or a new injury. Nunez is not a good fielder but he has been a good clutch hitter. They also must not trust Holt, who is a better-fielding 2B, to hit as well as he has done so far, and that probably is reasonable. Still, I would have liked to have seen Holt out there a little more than he has been.
The Sox are considerably better defensively with JBJ in CF, Moreland at 1B and JDM at DH, so much better that I think that lineup will predominate the rest of the season. I am presuming that JBJ gets out of his slump.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 25, 2018 13:29:57 GMT -5
And that's a big thing for me to say - given how much I hated his "attitude" when he came to the Sox. Hanley did win me over with his attitude. I honestly think he was a positive. I grew to like him.This is absolutely true and why I feel bad for Hanley. He appeared to be great in the clubhouse, with the fans, it can be a tough business.
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Post by kevfc89 on May 25, 2018 13:34:38 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 25, 2018 13:56:36 GMT -5
Hanley's current fWAR is -0.1 And his projections are for about half a win rest of season. This move is both shocking, and also completely obvious. Despite the way a lot of us (myself very much included) feel about Hanley... there's just not a lot of objective reasons for keeping him around.
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Post by Addam603 on May 25, 2018 14:09:10 GMT -5
The biggest piece of this to me is Swihart’s hand in this. The Sox would rather have Swihart on this roster at this point than Hanley. I didn’t think Hanley has had the season where he’s beat out by a guy with 30 something plate appearances. Certain members of management must be really hopeful that he can still become a productive big leaguer. Maybe this will open reps for Swihart as the backup 1B. I’d certainly prefer that over Nunez or Holt at this point.
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