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Catcher in 2019 (4/16: Swihart DFA'd)
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 24, 2019 16:15:31 GMT -5
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Post by chrisfromnc on Feb 24, 2019 20:49:55 GMT -5
I’m in the camp of those who think Blake Swihart has been handled poorly so I’m biased in his favor.
Here’s what I don’t really understand and never have. Maybe my lack of understanding is because I never played professional baseball and even as a kid, was not really even a decent pitcher. Why can’t Price, Porcello or Sale come forward to Alex Cora and volunteer to “take the bullet” of regularly throwing to Swihart this season?
Why is this such a hill to climb? We hear it said that lots of players consider David Price one of the best teammates they’ve ever had. Based on the cohesion the pitching staff appears to have, it seems likely that Sale and Porcello are likely pretty good teammates too. All three are well established and highly accomplished pitchers. How about one or two such accomplished pitchers take Swihart under their wing from a pitcher’s perspective and let him and the manager know they can be comfortable throwing to him. Doing this helps the manager and would help the player and thereby help the GM by expanding his options with Swihart. In baseball it’s a common expression to “pick up” your teammate after an error or mistake of some kind. I’m advocating one or two of the veteran starting pitchers “pick up” Blake Swihart by making him more easily useful to the manager. How about just demonstrating some confidence in the guy who is by definition an elite athlete and who is almost certainly highly motivated.
Unless he just plain stinks at catching, why can’t he be coached up? If he is weak at calling a game, teach him the subtleties of that craft. Until he gets it, have the pitches called from the dugout. Are they worried he can’t frame pitches as well as Vazquez allegedly can? I hear smart people say how critical this skill is, so I guess it is, but it seems like the absolute most peripheral skill in the entire inventory of what makes a catcher valuable to a baseball team. Is throwing to Blake Swihart suddenly going to make Price, Porcello or Sale a less effective pitcher?
This seems pretty simple to me. Standing by to hear why this is a cruddy idea.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 24, 2019 21:04:44 GMT -5
Here’s what I don’t really understand and never have. Maybe my lack of understanding is because I never played professional baseball and even as a kid, was not really even a decent pitcher. Why can’t Price, Porcello or Sale come forward to Alex Cora and volunteer to “take the bullet” of regularly throwing to Swihart this season? Why would they do that?
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Post by telson13 on Feb 24, 2019 21:12:29 GMT -5
I’m in the camp of those who think Blake Swihart has been handled poorly so I’m biased in his favor. Here’s what I don’t really understand and never have. Maybe my lack of understanding is because I never played professional baseball and even as a kid, was not really even a decent pitcher. Why can’t Price, Porcello or Sale come forward to Alex Cora and volunteer to “take the bullet” of regularly throwing to Swihart this season? Why is this such a hill to climb? We hear it said that lots of players consider David Price one of the best teammates they’ve ever had. Based on the cohesion the pitching staff appears to have, it seems likely that Sale and Porcello are likely pretty good teammates too. All three are well established and highly accomplished pitchers. How about one or two such accomplished pitchers take Swihart under their wing from a pitcher’s perspective and let him and the manager know they can be comfortable throwing to him. Doing this helps the manager and would help the player and thereby help the GM by expanding his options with Swihart. In baseball it’s a common expression to “pick up” your teammate after an error or mistake of some kind. I’m advocating one or two of the veteran starting pitchers “pick up” Blake Swihart by making him more easily useful to the manager. How about just demonstrating some confidence in the guy who is by definition an elite athlete and who is almost certainly highly motivated. Unless he just plain stinks at catching, why can’t he be coached up? If he is weak at calling a game, teach him the subtleties of that craft. Until he gets it, have the pitches called from the dugout. Are they worried he can’t frame pitches as well as Vazquez allegedly can? I hear smart people say how critical this skill is, so I guess it is, but it seems like the absolute most peripheral skill in the entire inventory of what makes a catcher valuable to a baseball team. Is throwing to Blake Swihart suddenly going to make Price, Porcello or Sale a less effective pitcher? This seems pretty simple to me. Standing by to hear why this is a cruddy idea. Swihart’s “hard” defensive metrics (framing, blocking, pop times, arm strength per velocity to 2b) are all positive, to varying degrees. I agree that the focus with him really ought to be his game-calling. I’m not sure I understand either why this is such an issue.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Feb 24, 2019 21:18:02 GMT -5
Here’s what I don’t really understand and never have. Maybe my lack of understanding is because I never played professional baseball and even as a kid, was not really even a decent pitcher. Why can’t Price, Porcello or Sale come forward to Alex Cora and volunteer to “take the bullet” of regularly throwing to Swihart this season? Why would they do that? 1. Because he maybe isn’t a terrible catcher. 2. It’s a great thing to do to help a young player on your team. 3. Offensive production from the catching position would likely improve. 4. You make your managers job easier because he doesn’t have to “force” a star player to do something.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 24, 2019 22:21:12 GMT -5
1. Because he maybe isn’t a terrible catcher. 2. It’s a great thing to do to help a young player on your team. 3. Offensive production from the catching position would likely improve. 4. You make your managers job easier because he doesn’t have to “force” a star player to do something. I'm having a hard time understanding your point. 1--- Are you saying they should show no allegiance to Leon? 3--- You are saying the pitchers should favor Swihart because of offensive production? 4--- WHy shouldn't it be the manager's job to make the pitchers perform at their best rather than the starter being concerned about making Cora's decision easier? The starter is being evaluated by how many runs he lets up and how many innings he pitches. For the record, I'd like them to keep Swihart. But I understand maybe they can't. As a fan,I do prefer him over Leon but that's just speaking as a fan.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 24, 2019 23:28:55 GMT -5
1. Because he maybe isn’t a terrible catcher. 2. It’s a great thing to do to help a young player on your team.
3. Offensive production from the catching position would likely improve. 4. You make your managers job easier because he doesn’t have to “force” a star player to do something. If Chris Sale and friends have are interested in doing any favors for a young catcher on the roster, Swihart probably isn't the guy they have in mind.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 24, 2019 23:43:39 GMT -5
I’m in the camp of those who think Blake Swihart has been handled poorly so I’m biased in his favor. Here’s what I don’t really understand and never have. Maybe my lack of understanding is because I never played professional baseball and even as a kid, was not really even a decent pitcher. Why can’t Price, Porcello or Sale come forward to Alex Cora and volunteer to “take the bullet” of regularly throwing to Swihart this season? Why is this such a hill to climb? We hear it said that lots of players consider David Price one of the best teammates they’ve ever had. Based on the cohesion the pitching staff appears to have, it seems likely that Sale and Porcello are likely pretty good teammates too. All three are well established and highly accomplished pitchers. How about one or two such accomplished pitchers take Swihart under their wing from a pitcher’s perspective and let him and the manager know they can be comfortable throwing to him. Doing this helps the manager and would help the player and thereby help the GM by expanding his options with Swihart. In baseball it’s a common expression to “pick up” your teammate after an error or mistake of some kind. I’m advocating one or two of the veteran starting pitchers “pick up” Blake Swihart by making him more easily useful to the manager. How about just demonstrating some confidence in the guy who is by definition an elite athlete and who is almost certainly highly motivated. Unless he just plain stinks at catching, why can’t he be coached up? If he is weak at calling a game, teach him the subtleties of that craft. Until he gets it, have the pitches called from the dugout. Are they worried he can’t frame pitches as well as Vazquez allegedly can? I hear smart people say how critical this skill is, so I guess it is, but it seems like the absolute most peripheral skill in the entire inventory of what makes a catcher valuable to a baseball team. Is throwing to Blake Swihart suddenly going to make Price, Porcello or Sale a less effective pitcher? This seems pretty simple to me. Standing by to hear why this is a cruddy idea. Swihart’s “hard” defensive metrics (framing, blocking, pop times, arm strength per velocity to 2b) are all positive, to varying degrees. I agree that the focus with him really ought to be his game-calling. I’m not sure I understand either why this is such an issue. I'm absolutely of the opinion using evidence of last season that pitch calling is the one an only ability that matters for catchers. And the closet thing you have to measuring that is Catcher ERA, but that's also a pretty bad stat. I know that the only pitcher that's even in the same sentence as Jason Varitek is Sandy Leon as far as managing pitching games goes.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 25, 2019 0:20:18 GMT -5
Swihart’s “hard” defensive metrics (framing, blocking, pop times, arm strength per velocity to 2b) are all positive, to varying degrees. I agree that the focus with him really ought to be his game-calling. I’m not sure I understand either why this is such an issue. I'm absolutely of the opinion using evidence of last season that pitch calling is the one an only ability that matters for catchers. And the closet thing you have to measuring that is Catcher ERA, but that's also a pretty bad stat. I know that the only pitcher that's even in the same sentence as Jason Varitek is Sandy Leon as far as managing pitching games goes. Unfortunately, there’s no real good way to *quantify* where Swihart is at in terms of game-calling. I do think “C ERA” has value, when looked at long-term, but for the small sample of last year, and P preference (Sale-Leon, for example), there’s very little value in looking at it for Swihart. Leon clearly has a skill in that area, because I’m pretty sure the staff ERA with him catching last year was something like a half run lower, (I don’t have it handy but i do recall that being pointed out by someone like Speier during the depths of Sandy’s offensive woes last August-Sept, and I believe it’s representative of his career). I wholly support their retaining him for exactly that reason. But it’s also why i think the Leon-Swihart tandem is the best two-C combo. Swihart has shown that he has the *tools* to catch: arm, framing, and blocking. His arm and pop times are plus, and his blocking/framing last year both added value. Game-calling is something León should, at least to a fair degree, be able to teach him. I’m sure it’s not easy and probably some of it may be “instinctive,” the way JBJ is in CF with his positioning and routes. Swihart may be at a big disadvantage having started at C only as a HS Sr. It just seems a monumental waste of talent to not make an effort to get Swihart where he needs to be. Idk, maybe he just doesn’t have a good rapport with pitchers, maybe he’s just not liked as a person...I could see that being a reason pitchers wouldn’t advocate for him. Maybe he’s not prepared, or is lackadaisical. I could understand there being issues beyond *just* game-calling. But the guy has all the tools...to me it’s folly for the team, including his veteran teammates, not to help him reach his potential, because if he did the team would be (substantially?) better.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 25, 2019 0:38:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there’s no real good way to *quantify* where Swihart is at in terms of game-calling. I do think “C ERA” has value, when looked at long-term, but for the small sample of last year, and P preference (Sale-Leon, for example), there’s very little value in looking at it for Swihart. Leon clearly has a skill in that area, because I’m pretty sure the staff ERA with him catching last year was something like a half run lower, (I don’t have it handy but i do recall that being pointed out by someone like Speier during the depths of Sandy’s offensive woes last August-Sept, and I believe it’s representative of his career). I wholly support their retaining him for exactly that reason. But it’s also why i think the Leon-Swihart tandem is the best two-C combo. Swihart has shown that he has the *tools* to catch: arm, framing, and blocking. His arm and pop times are plus, and his blocking/framing last year both added value. Game-calling is something León should, at least to a fair degree, be able to teach him. I’m sure it’s not easy and probably some of it may be “instinctive,” the way JBJ is in CF with his positioning and routes. Swihart may be at a big disadvantage having started at C only as a HS Sr. It just seems a monumental waste of talent to not make an effort to get Swihart where he needs to be. Idk, maybe he just doesn’t have a good rapport with pitchers, maybe he’s just not liked as a person...I could see that being a reason pitchers wouldn’t advocate for him. Maybe he’s not prepared, or is lackadaisical. I could understand there being issues beyond *just* game-calling. But the guy has all the tools...to me it’s folly for the team, including his veteran teammates, not to help him reach his potential, because if he did the team would be (substantially?) better. If you catch Sale all the time your ERA as a catcher is going to look good.
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Post by manfred on Feb 25, 2019 0:41:54 GMT -5
I like Swihart, but I also wonder if we overblow his offense. He may have the highest ceiling, but has he clearly demonstrated that given a full year behind the plate there would be as much separation as we assume? Obviously Leon was brutal last year, but it seems unfair to credit Swihart with his full potential but not imagine CVaz and Leon can bounce back even slightly.
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Post by orion09 on Feb 25, 2019 0:43:40 GMT -5
I'm absolutely of the opinion using evidence of last season that pitch calling is the one an only ability that matters for catchers. And the closet thing you have to measuring that is Catcher ERA, but that's also a pretty bad stat. I know that the only pitcher that's even in the same sentence as Jason Varitek is Sandy Leon as far as managing pitching games goes. Unfortunately, there’s no real good way to *quantify* where Swihart is at in terms of game-calling. I do think “C ERA” has value, when looked at long-term, but for the small sample of last year, and P preference (Sale-Leon, for example), there’s very little value in looking at it for Swihart. Leon clearly has a skill in that area, because I’m pretty sure the staff ERA with him catching last year was something like a half run lower, (I don’t have it handy but i do recall that being pointed out by someone like Speier during the depths of Sandy’s offensive woes last August-Sept, and I believe it’s representative of his career). I wholly support their retaining him for exactly that reason. But it’s also why i think the Leon-Swihart tandem is the best two-C combo. Swihart has shown that he has the *tools* to catch: arm, framing, and blocking. His arm and pop times are plus, and his blocking/framing last year both added value. Game-calling is something León should, at least to a fair degree, be able to teach him. I’m sure it’s not easy and probably some of it may be “instinctive,” the way JBJ is in CF with his positioning and routes. Swihart may be at a big disadvantage having started at C only as a HS Sr. It just seems a monumental waste of talent to not make an effort to get Swihart where he needs to be. Idk, maybe he just doesn’t have a good rapport with pitchers, maybe he’s just not liked as a person...I could see that being a reason pitchers wouldn’t advocate for him. Maybe he’s not prepared, or is lackadaisical. I could understand there being issues beyond *just* game-calling. But the guy has all the tools...to me it’s folly for the team, including his veteran teammates, not to help him reach his potential, because if he did the team would be (substantially?) better. I’ve definitely wondered about this. I think you’re right, game-calling is part intuition and part preparation (also obviously part experience). The intuition part - reading swings, reading situations - probably can’t be taught, but a less talented catcher should be able to make up most of the difference though diligent preparation and memorization. Especially true with the detailed analytics, hitter tendencies, etc, available today. This makes me think that either Swihart is not motivated to put in the hours of work each week required to learn this stuff, or there’s a leadership/confidence issue there that’s squicking out the pitchers. Otherwise, you’d think they’d be giving a guy with his offensive upside multiple chances to succeed.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 25, 2019 8:14:03 GMT -5
I like Swihart, but I also wonder if we overblow his offense. He may have the highest ceiling, but has he clearly demonstrated that given a full year behind the plate there would be as much separation as we assume? Obviously Leon was brutal last year, but it seems unfair to credit Swihart with his full potential but not imagine CVaz and Leon can bounce back even slightly. I've said this a million times: Vazquez has better offensive projections than Swihart.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 25, 2019 8:23:09 GMT -5
I like Swihart, but I also wonder if we overblow his offense. He may have the highest ceiling, but has he clearly demonstrated that given a full year behind the plate there would be as much separation as we assume? Obviously Leon was brutal last year, but it seems unfair to credit Swihart with his full potential but not imagine CVaz and Leon can bounce back even slightly. I've said this a million times: Vazquez has better offensive projections than Swihart. How can a projection system ever do any justice to Swihart? He's completely unknown.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 25, 2019 8:30:14 GMT -5
I've said this a million times: Vazquez has better offensive projections than Swihart. How can a projection system ever do any justice to Swihart? He's completely unknown. He has a ten year professional track record, and a .256/.314/.364 line in just under 600 MLB plate appearances. The system is fair to him by looking at every single plate appearance he's ever had. And if the track record is thin... I mean, yeah, exactly. That's what they're looking at. You have two catchers, one of them has a statistical track record that suggests they're an above-replacement MLB player, the other one doesn't. It's not complicated.
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 25, 2019 9:11:53 GMT -5
I think a comparison of Swihart and Leon is more apt. Vazquez is likely the starter with the other 2 fighting to be the back up.
Compared to Leon that .256/.314/.364 slash line looks Ted Williams-like. How truly valuable is Leon's defensive ability? That's the deciding factor here.
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Post by manfred on Feb 25, 2019 12:23:42 GMT -5
I think a comparison of Swihart and Leon is more apt. Vazquez is likely the starter with the other 2 fighting to be the back up. Compared to Leon that .256/.314/.364 slash line looks Ted Williams-like. How truly valuable is Leon's defensive ability? That's the deciding factor here. I think this is basically true, with the one additional question: what if Swihart is still worth something on the trade market that might make Leon the better choice as Sale’s personal catcher (and does that keep your #1 starter happier and more apt to sign an extension)? That may not be one question.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 25, 2019 13:00:43 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there’s no real good way to *quantify* where Swihart is at in terms of game-calling. I do think “C ERA” has value, when looked at long-term, but for the small sample of last year, and P preference (Sale-Leon, for example), there’s very little value in looking at it for Swihart. Leon clearly has a skill in that area, because I’m pretty sure the staff ERA with him catching last year was something like a half run lower, (I don’t have it handy but i do recall that being pointed out by someone like Speier during the depths of Sandy’s offensive woes last August-Sept, and I believe it’s representative of his career). I wholly support their retaining him for exactly that reason. But it’s also why i think the Leon-Swihart tandem is the best two-C combo. Swihart has shown that he has the *tools* to catch: arm, framing, and blocking. His arm and pop times are plus, and his blocking/framing last year both added value. Game-calling is something León should, at least to a fair degree, be able to teach him. I’m sure it’s not easy and probably some of it may be “instinctive,” the way JBJ is in CF with his positioning and routes. Swihart may be at a big disadvantage having started at C only as a HS Sr. It just seems a monumental waste of talent to not make an effort to get Swihart where he needs to be. Idk, maybe he just doesn’t have a good rapport with pitchers, maybe he’s just not liked as a person...I could see that being a reason pitchers wouldn’t advocate for him. Maybe he’s not prepared, or is lackadaisical. I could understand there being issues beyond *just* game-calling. But the guy has all the tools...to me it’s folly for the team, including his veteran teammates, not to help him reach his potential, because if he did the team would be (substantially?) better. If you catch Sale all the time your ERA as a catcher is going to look good. Exactly my point; C ERA requires a long timeframe to be a useful statistic for that reason: P preference (greatly) influences it. That influence can really only be minimized with large samples, or by breaking down specific C-P performances to show consistent superior performance by the P with that catcher vs all others. It has value as a statistic, but it requires some thoughtful investigation.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 25, 2019 13:28:51 GMT -5
How can a projection system ever do any justice to Swihart? He's completely unknown. He has a ten year professional track record, and a .256/.314/.364 line in just under 600 MLB plate appearances. The system is fair to him by looking at every single plate appearance he's ever had. And if the track record is thin... I mean, yeah, exactly. That's what they're looking at. You have two catchers, one of them has a statistical track record that suggests they're an above-replacement MLB player, the other one doesn't. It's not complicated. But your point is why sometimes "stats" get questioned. The way you are using them is why we need to sometimes question the validity of stat usage. First off he hasn't had a ten year track record unless you count High School. The 2012 season was year 1 and he basically hasmissed two years in between. Secondly in MLB play Swihart has hit better than Vaz in comparing careers (but those numbers need to be questioned too in terms of relevance. Maybe given more ab's for Vaz he is more like 2017 with a bit more pop.) . Third we see when Vaz got hurt in 2015 the next year he came back his slash was .227/.277/.308/.585. After Swihart basically missed two years (just 81 pa's between 2016 and 2017) it was better than the 1 year Vaz had when he came back. so which stats are the most valid? As jimed said lots of unknowns. Thats why none of our catchers are ranked high -- not just Swihart though. Anyhow, Swihart missed two years less the 81 pa's. IMO its valid to question the validity of the hitting numbers vs Vaz (or Leon.).
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 25, 2019 15:30:41 GMT -5
He has a ten year professional track record, and a .256/.314/.364 line in just under 600 MLB plate appearances. The system is fair to him by looking at every single plate appearance he's ever had. And if the track record is thin... I mean, yeah, exactly. That's what they're looking at. You have two catchers, one of them has a statistical track record that suggests they're an above-replacement MLB player, the other one doesn't. It's not complicated. But your point is why sometimes "stats" get questioned. The way you are using them is why we need to sometimes question the validity of stat usage. First off he hasn't had a ten year track record unless you count High School. The 2012 season was year 1 and he basically hasmissed two years in between. Secondly in MLB play Swihart has hit better than Vaz in comparing careers (but those numbers need to be questioned too in terms of relevance. Maybe given more ab's for Vaz he is more like 2017 with a bit more pop.) . Third we see when Vaz got hurt in 2015 the next year he came back his slash was .227/.277/.308/.585. After Swihart basically missed two years (just 81 pa's between 2016 and 2017) it was better than the 1 year Vaz had when he came back. so which stats are the most valid? As jimed said lots of unknowns. Thats why none of our catchers are ranked high -- not just Swihart though. Anyhow, Swihart missed two years less the 81 pa's. IMO its valid to question the validity of the hitting numbers vs Vaz (or Leon.). It seems like there's this sense that the time that Swihart has missed to injuries somehow shouldn't count against him. Like, here was this guy on a promising trajectory and then he got knocked off it when he ran into a wall that he never should have been running towards in the first place, and all the missed time and bad performance since then shouldn't count against him, we should still think of him as the guy he was before all that. But I've been following prospects for long enough now to know the sad truth, which is that a bad injury at a key developmental stage is what knocks tons of careers off course permanently. All the time you can't play, your skills atrophy, and you're still aging. You don't get to be 24 again, but healthy this time. You're just a 25 year old with more work to do and less time to do it in. Plus, we also like to imagine that once an athlete is off the DL, they're healed up good as new, but the reality is that any injury that causes you to miss a significant amount of time probably does have lingering after effects as well. So there's in all likelihood an element of physical degradation as well. All of which is to say, when you suggest that the projections aren't valid because the systems are looking at limited data, that missing time is actually part of what's driving the poor projections. It's part of why the systems don't like him, and it's part of why I don't like him.* I get that he was on a certain trajectory at one point. He's not on it anymore, and he doesn't get a do-over. *As a player for the 2019 Boston Red Sox. If some rebuilding team wants to pick him up on a flyer and really give him some runway to see what the deal is, great, I'd love to see that. But a team trying to repeat as WS champs can't be messing around trying to resurrect broken careers, especially when they don't even like the player enough to ever commit to using him in a consistent way.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 25, 2019 17:11:17 GMT -5
But your point is why sometimes "stats" get questioned. The way you are using them is why we need to sometimes question the validity of stat usage. First off he hasn't had a ten year track record unless you count High School. The 2012 season was year 1 and he basically hasmissed two years in between. Secondly in MLB play Swihart has hit better than Vaz in comparing careers (but those numbers need to be questioned too in terms of relevance. Maybe given more ab's for Vaz he is more like 2017 with a bit more pop.) . Third we see when Vaz got hurt in 2015 the next year he came back his slash was .227/.277/.308/.585. After Swihart basically missed two years (just 81 pa's between 2016 and 2017) it was better than the 1 year Vaz had when he came back. so which stats are the most valid? As jimed said lots of unknowns. Thats why none of our catchers are ranked high -- not just Swihart though. Anyhow, Swihart missed two years less the 81 pa's. IMO its valid to question the validity of the hitting numbers vs Vaz (or Leon.). But I've been following prospects for long enough now to know the sad truth, which is that a bad injury at a key developmental stage is what knocks tons of careers off course permanently. This is what I'm skeptical of. I'm not sure there is a formula here meaning his trajectory while no longer considered a star prospect but he could certainly hit better than Leon and he could potentially hit better than Vaz. He did hit better than both last year so why can't he do it again this year?. So his trajectory as a hitter - how can it not be superior to at least Leon even if he no longer is the top prospect of prior years? Also-- I can remember on here reading what a stud defensive player Vaz was. Didn't he get DPOY in the minors? IMO he hasn't come close to living up to that. We have poor grade catchers for all 3 I think. And last year Swihart outhit both. That's what he'll probably do better than Leon and possibly Vaz. Vaz is no lock as a hitter. At this moment neither is Swihart but after two years- even with atrophy -- he hit better than both. SHouldn't there be an expectation (though he is no lock) that he can hit better than what he did last year ? I realize it might not be good enough but it might -- which makes it an unknown, doesn't it? You don't think it's "no shot he can hit much better than Leon and possibly just a little bit better than Vaz?" I feel like were holding it against Swihart that he was hurt but not against Vaz. And we're not holding much against Leon even though I think we have to be pretty certain his bat is downright awful. Last year Leon and Vaz played like "utility" players too, didn't they? So what will Sox be losing of Swihart vs Leon? ANd if Vaz's bat fails -- and we only have Leon - that's pretty assured we'll get nil offensively from the catchers. Potentially wouldn't Swihart "offer" some "hitting protection" if Vaz hitting fails?
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Post by michael on Feb 25, 2019 17:39:40 GMT -5
INRE: Catcher's ERA If anyone catching Sale will have a lower ERA, then compare C-ERA with Sale only between the competitors.
If game calling is critical, why not call the games from the dugout?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 25, 2019 18:04:24 GMT -5
INRE: Catcher's ERA If anyone catching Sale will have a lower ERA, then compare C-ERA with Sale only between the competitors. If game calling is critical, why not call the games from the dugout? A catcher should be a lot better than the dugout because he has a much better view and should be completely in tune with the pitcher. I'd compare it to pinochle, where if you play a lot with the same partner, you know exactly what cards each other has and you play off each other. Plus, it's another chance for signs to be stolen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 25, 2019 18:43:06 GMT -5
If those earpieces get implemented, I can see a game being called from the dugout. Might be hard with the 20 second pitch clock coming to call a game from the dugout. That earpiece seems like a really good thing for pace of play. Wish they would push it more.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 26, 2019 10:07:17 GMT -5
But I've been following prospects for long enough now to know the sad truth, which is that a bad injury at a key developmental stage is what knocks tons of careers off course permanently. This is what I'm skeptical of. I'm not sure there is a formula here meaning his trajectory while no longer considered a star prospect but he could certainly hit better than Leon and he could potentially hit better than Vaz. He did hit better than both last year so why can't he do it again this year?. So his trajectory as a hitter - how can it not be superior to at least Leon even if he no longer is the top prospect of prior years? Also-- I can remember on here reading what a stud defensive player Vaz was. Didn't he get DPOY in the minors? IMO he hasn't come close to living up to that. We have poor grade catchers for all 3 I think. And last year Swihart outhit both. That's what he'll probably do better than Leon and possibly Vaz. Vaz is no lock as a hitter. At this moment neither is Swihart but after two years- even with atrophy -- he hit better than both. SHouldn't there be an expectation (though he is no lock) that he can hit better than what he did last year ? I realize it might not be good enough but it might -- which makes it an unknown, doesn't it? You don't think it's "no shot he can hit much better than Leon and possibly just a little bit better than Vaz?" I feel like were holding it against Swihart that he was hurt but not against Vaz. And we're not holding much against Leon even though I think we have to be pretty certain his bat is downright awful. Last year Leon and Vaz played like "utility" players too, didn't they? So what will Sox be losing of Swihart vs Leon? ANd if Vaz's bat fails -- and we only have Leon - that's pretty assured we'll get nil offensively from the catchers. Potentially wouldn't Swihart "offer" some "hitting protection" if Vaz hitting fails? 1. Vazquez is definitely a better defensive catcher than Swihart. 2. Vazquez has slightly better offensive projections than Swihart, and I believe them, largely because while they were both terrible last year, Vazquez swings and misses at about half the rate that Swihart does. He's clearly much better at putting the ball in play. In with both players, putting the ball in play with some frequency is about the extent of the offensive contribution you can expect. That's a substantial difference in skills, and a major advantage for Vazquez, all injury issues aside. 3. Leon, whatever. I kind of prefer him as the backup just because he's more predictable in what he gives you (a good glove and absolutely nothing else), but if they kept Swihart over him, I'm fine with that too. Keeping all three is ridiculous, though.
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