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The Red Sox Offseason Thread: Who do you want for 2019?
rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 18, 2019 6:53:49 GMT -5
They could have worked out a deal with any of them, but management is going to show you how smart they are with their analytics. Just a few adjustments to Erasmo Ramirez and Zach Putnam and we’re all set. Man, you just want to complain instead of trying to figure out why. Do you really think the Sox would have preferred not to bring back Kimbrel and/or sign one of these bullpen guys. It's not about them being egotistical to show you how smart they are with their analytics or whatever other BS you want. It's all about the money and getting under the luxury tax for 2020. If you give a crap about them trying to bring back two or three of Betts, Sale, Bogaerts, Martinez, Porcello, or Bradley and get under the cap so that they're not picking 35th every draft and losing international money every year to help them replenish their farm system, then maybe you'd have a clue why the Sox would rather spend their money elsewhere, especially when the only area they have depth in their mid to upper farm system is relief pitching. I don’t give a crap about them getting under the cap in 2020 so they aren’t picking 35 vs 25 or whatever it is when it’s leaving clear holes on the 2019 team. Why would you as a fan care about that? You want a marginally better draft pick in 2021 at the expense of leaving a big hole on what should be a championship caliber squad in 2019? Not to mention Ottavino at this money should have been a no brainer. Plus, a contact of 3/30 at 14/10/6 per year would have been incredibly tradable if you needed to cut that salary down the road. Teams sign and flip players as ways to build their farm systems, it’s not just about drafting into the system. Again, I don’t expect them to ink bad deals and burn money. 3/30 for Ottavino is not a bad deal. This ownership is clearly NOT cheap. They have the highest payroll, but they are using this arbitrary tax line as an excuse not to spend even more when they really should and fans are letting them get away with it. The best part for them is they don’t even need to say this is what they are doing or make excuses because fans and writers are lapping it up and doing it for them.
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Post by kenster on Jan 18, 2019 9:29:59 GMT -5
They could have worked out a deal with any of them, but management is going to show you how smart they are with their analytics. Just a few adjustments to Erasmo Ramirez and Zach Putnam and we’re all set. Man, you just want to complain instead of trying to figure out why. Do you really think the Sox would have preferred not to bring back Kimbrel and/or sign one of these bullpen guys. It's not about them being egotistical to show you how smart they are with their analytics or whatever other BS you want. It's all about the money and getting under the luxury tax for 2020. If you give a crap about them trying to bring back two or three of Betts, Sale, Bogaerts, Martinez, Porcello, or Bradley and get under the cap so that they're not picking 35th every draft and losing international money every year to help them replenish their farm system, then maybe you'd have a clue why the Sox would rather spend their money elsewhere, especially when the only area they have depth in their mid to upper farm system is relief pitching. ‘It’s all about the money and getting under the luxury tax for 2020’. Then why not just rebuild now?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 18, 2019 9:51:59 GMT -5
Man, you just want to complain instead of trying to figure out why. Do you really think the Sox would have preferred not to bring back Kimbrel and/or sign one of these bullpen guys. It's not about them being egotistical to show you how smart they are with their analytics or whatever other BS you want. It's all about the money and getting under the luxury tax for 2020. If you give a crap about them trying to bring back two or three of Betts, Sale, Bogaerts, Martinez, Porcello, or Bradley and get under the cap so that they're not picking 35th every draft and losing international money every year to help them replenish their farm system, then maybe you'd have a clue why the Sox would rather spend their money elsewhere, especially when the only area they have depth in their mid to upper farm system is relief pitching. ‘It’s all about the money and getting under the luxury tax for 2020’. Then why not just rebuild now?Because they're at worst the third best team in baseball?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 18, 2019 9:58:45 GMT -5
Derek Dietrich is a really interesting bat the Sox can get if Pedrioa doesn't get good news from the doctors in the next couple of weeks. He was non tendered by the Marlins earlier this off-season. If I'm the Sox, I'd sign him to a major league deal. His defense looks bad, but 16 homeruns with a 109 wRC+ last year in over 500 at bats last year. That's a decent regular everyday player. He's got good on base and okay power it looks like. Good value guy, I'd think. Not a big signing, but a great guy to target. I'd rather give the at-bats to Lin, personally. I've thought about your counterpoint Chris, but do you think Cora would give Lin the opportunity over Holt as a regular? I'm not arguing that Cora makes bad decisions, but he may favor veterans like Holt to get most of the playing time. At least Derek Dietrich is a veteran and can challenge Holt for a regular job based off of play and not merrit. If Lin were up because Pedrioa is on the DL, I'd just expect Holt to play 80 percent of the time at second base.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jan 18, 2019 12:44:04 GMT -5
"What do I want for 2019? For the Red Sox to skip their planned trip to the White House. There, I said it. For everyone who thinks baseball should steer clear of politics, well, we've been hearing that for over 100 years. And look where it's gotten the sport in terms of popularity" I don't give a good shit about your opinion on politics...try to stay sane and talk baseball But the question is, do the Sox make more of a political statement by going to the White House, or not going? In today's environment, WHATEVER they choose has political connotations, like it or not. The only way that the organization could possibly have avoided embroiling themselves in politics over a potential visit would have been for the organization to say something like, "In the interests of focusing on baseball and avoiding any political association, the Red Sox respectfully request that we not be invited to the White House because of our recent championship, and that any such ceremonies in the future be avoided as long as the current ownership is in place. Political ceremonies have nothing to do with the sport of professional baseball." Such a statement could have been made before any invitation was forthcoming from the White House.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 18, 2019 12:46:46 GMT -5
"What do I want for 2019? For the Red Sox to skip their planned trip to the White House. There, I said it. For everyone who thinks baseball should steer clear of politics, well, we've been hearing that for over 100 years. And look where it's gotten the sport in terms of popularity" I don't give a good shit about your opinion on politics...try to stay sane and talk baseball But the question is, do the Sox make more of a political statement by going to the White House, or not going? In today's environment, WHATEVER they choose has political connotations, like it or not. The only way that the organization could possibly have avoided embroiling themselves in politics over a potential visit would have been for the organization to say something like, "In the interests of focusing on baseball and avoiding any political association, the Red Sox respectfully request that we not be invited to the White House because of our recent championship, and that any such ceremonies in the future be avoided as long as the current ownership is in place. Political ceremonies have nothing to do with the sport of professional baseball." Such a statement could have been made before any invitation was forthcoming from the White House. The only way to win is not play. You don't hear Dodgers players being asked about it. Next year lose the WS and they won't have to deal with President Pence.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 18, 2019 13:38:35 GMT -5
"What do I want for 2019? For the Red Sox to skip their planned trip to the White House. There, I said it. For everyone who thinks baseball should steer clear of politics, well, we've been hearing that for over 100 years. And look where it's gotten the sport in terms of popularity" I don't give a good shit about your opinion on politics...try to stay sane and talk baseball But the question is, do the Sox make more of a political statement by going to the White House, or not going? In today's environment, WHATEVER they choose has political connotations, like it or not. The only way that the organization could possibly have avoided embroiling themselves in politics over a potential visit would have been for the organization to say something like, "In the interests of focusing on baseball and avoiding any political association, the Red Sox respectfully request that we not be invited to the White House because of our recent championship, and that any such ceremonies in the future be avoided as long as the current ownership is in place. Political ceremonies have nothing to do with the sport of professional baseball." Such a statement could have been made before any invitation was forthcoming from the White House. Or they could go like they always have before and just say “we’ve always gone regardless of who’s in the White House, it’s not about the President, it’s about the players being recognized”. End of story.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 18, 2019 13:59:25 GMT -5
Or they could go like they always have before and just say “we’ve always gone regardless of who’s in the White House, it’s not about the President, it’s about the players being recognized”. End of story. That's too short of a story and it can't be told over multiple tweets. That's not fun.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 18, 2019 14:05:09 GMT -5
Man, you just want to complain instead of trying to figure out why. Do you really think the Sox would have preferred not to bring back Kimbrel and/or sign one of these bullpen guys. It's not about them being egotistical to show you how smart they are with their analytics or whatever other BS you want. It's all about the money and getting under the luxury tax for 2020. If you give a crap about them trying to bring back two or three of Betts, Sale, Bogaerts, Martinez, Porcello, or Bradley and get under the cap so that they're not picking 35th every draft and losing international money every year to help them replenish their farm system, then maybe you'd have a clue why the Sox would rather spend their money elsewhere, especially when the only area they have depth in their mid to upper farm system is relief pitching. I don’t give a crap about them getting under the cap in 2020 so they aren’t picking 35 vs 25 or whatever it is when it’s leaving clear holes on the 2019 team. Why would you as a fan care about that? You want a marginally better draft pick in 2021 at the expense of leaving a big hole on what should be a championship caliber squad in 2019? Not to mention Ottavino at this money should have been a no brainer. Plus, a contact of 3/30 at 14/10/6 per year would have been incredibly tradable if you needed to cut that salary down the road. Teams sign and flip players as ways to build their farm systems, it’s not just about drafting into the system. Again, I don’t expect them to ink bad deals and burn money. 3/30 for Ottavino is not a bad deal. This ownership is clearly NOT cheap. They have the highest payroll, but they are using this arbitrary tax line as an excuse not to spend even more when they really should and fans are letting them get away with it. The best part for them is they don’t even need to say this is what they are doing or make excuses because fans and writers are lapping it up and doing it for them. Personally, I don't care if the Sox have a 300 million payroll and if they get another Sandoval contract, no problem, they eat it and buy somebody else. But that's not the way that even the most financially strong franchises have been operating. The Yankees could have a humungous payroll, yet they backed away from Machado and made sure to dip under the luxury tax this year so that they could reset. I think at some point the Dodgers did likewise, though I could be wrong about it. But whether I like it or not, that's why the Sox have been doing what they've been doing. It's not some I'm smarter than you personal arrogance as somebody else mentioned. Personally I'd rather see Kimbrel back, and if you did he might be good for a year or two and be bad to awful the last two years Teams like the Sox, Yanks, Dodgers, Cubs, etc. can probably support payrolls north of 400 million to 500 million if they wanted to, but they don't. The Sox are willing to spend more than those other teams at this point, but they're not going to just spend without putting a limit on it. And as far as the other penalties go, no every now and then it's not a big deal, but year after year, sooner or later it gets tougher to bring in the younger talent, so unless you're going to give out the big contracts to get players and then get burned on the back end of those deals, just flush those deals like the Sandoval/Ramirez deals and keep spending, you have to at some point reset. That's what they've been doing. At some point this will end. Something will happen during the next strike, which should be coming soon, that will address this issue.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 18, 2019 15:19:33 GMT -5
I don’t give a crap about them getting under the cap in 2020 so they aren’t picking 35 vs 25 or whatever it is when it’s leaving clear holes on the 2019 team. Why would you as a fan care about that? You want a marginally better draft pick in 2021 at the expense of leaving a big hole on what should be a championship caliber squad in 2019? Not to mention Ottavino at this money should have been a no brainer. Plus, a contact of 3/30 at 14/10/6 per year would have been incredibly tradable if you needed to cut that salary down the road. Teams sign and flip players as ways to build their farm systems, it’s not just about drafting into the system. Again, I don’t expect them to ink bad deals and burn money. 3/30 for Ottavino is not a bad deal. This ownership is clearly NOT cheap. They have the highest payroll, but they are using this arbitrary tax line as an excuse not to spend even more when they really should and fans are letting them get away with it. The best part for them is they don’t even need to say this is what they are doing or make excuses because fans and writers are lapping it up and doing it for them. Personally, I don't care if the Sox have a 300 million payroll and if they get another Sandoval contract, no problem, they eat it and buy somebody else. But that's not the way that even the most financially strong franchises have been operating. The Yankees could have a humungous payroll, yet they backed away from Machado and made sure to dip under the luxury tax this year so that they could reset. I think at some point the Dodgers did likewise, though I could be wrong about it. But whether I like it or not, that's why the Sox have been doing what they've been doing. It's not some I'm smarter than you personal arrogance as somebody else mentioned. Personally I'd rather see Kimbrel back, and if you did he might be good for a year or two and be bad to awful the last two years Teams like the Sox, Yanks, Dodgers, Cubs, etc. can probably support payrolls north of 400 million to 500 million if they wanted to, but they don't. The Sox are willing to spend more than those other teams at this point, but they're not going to just spend without putting a limit on it. And as far as the other penalties go, no every now and then it's not a big deal, but year after year, sooner or later it gets tougher to bring in the younger talent, so unless you're going to give out the big contracts to get players and then get burned on the back end of those deals, just flush those deals like the Sandoval/Ramirez deals and keep spending, you have to at some point reset. That's what they've been doing. At some point this will end. Something will happen during the next strike, which should be coming soon, that will address this issue. We all agree they should reset at some point - and we agree they shouldn’t pay out lousy contracts. We just disagree that they should be handicapping this years team in anticipation of trying to drop below on a future date. It’s not necessary and it actually makes the issue of their weak system worse. That’s all I’ll say on it. I’ve already been repeating myself. I won’t Pedro the thread
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 18, 2019 16:57:31 GMT -5
From today's 108 Stitches:
As he accepted the Manager of the Year award from the Boston chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America Thursday, Alex Cora could have delivered a middle-of-the-fairway acceptance speech. He could have thanked the Red Sox organization for the opportunity, made reference to a remarkable, historic championship season, graciously acknowledged the inevitable applause, and called it a day.
But that is not what Cora does or who Cora is. The 43-year-old manager is a tone-setter, someone who isn’t shy about defining a bold vision of possibility — a bit cocky, a bit audacious, totally authentic. The words that Cora offered in accepting an award earned from a season in which his team won 119 games — more than all but one championship team in big league history — came across as genuine, not forced.
“Somebody might write this, I don’t care,” Cora said. “If you guys thought last year was special, wait till this year.”
And with that, the ballroom at the InterContinental Hotel erupted. In 19 words, Cora waved off the notion of complacency or satisfaction for a team that soon will be confronted by a million questions about World Series hangovers and motivations.
His attitude is infectious. Let it infect you all while releasing the negativity. I've often thought that teams take on the personality of its fans and that's one of the biggest reasons why the Red Sox would always choke. It took the cowboy up crew to ignore the fans' negativity and do the impossible. These days, there is literally no reason to be negative about anything regarding the Sox.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 18, 2019 21:14:14 GMT -5
John Henry always has his limits on where he wants to go spending wise or payroll wise. Whether it's a player contract or the team's full payroll. He's operated like this since the moment he came to Boston.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 18, 2019 22:02:58 GMT -5
I'd rather give the at-bats to Lin, personally. I've thought about your counterpoint Chris, but do you think Cora would give Lin the opportunity over Holt as a regular? I'm not arguing that Cora makes bad decisions, but he may favor veterans like Holt to get most of the playing time. At least Derek Dietrich is a veteran and can challenge Holt for a regular job based off of play and not merrit. If Lin were up because Pedrioa is on the DL, I'd just expect Holt to play 80 percent of the time at second base. No, but my point is that they've got three guys in Nunez, Holt, and Lin that fill that role already, so I don't see the point of committing money to Dietrich. Lin's the last man on the depth chart of the three, and I would rather have him than Dietrich.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 18, 2019 22:24:32 GMT -5
Very disheartened that the Sox couldn’t work something out with a Ottavino in the 3/30 range. I think that’s quite a deal NY got. FWIW, Ottavino might have taken less to play in New York. In fact, this is probably the case. This is a picture of him as a kid with his dad. Can’t fight that unless it’s with stupid dollars, so thanks I feel better. I hope he gets shelled regularly too, but it’s not personal.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jan 18, 2019 23:22:28 GMT -5
From today's 108 Stitches: As he accepted the Manager of the Year award from the Boston chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America Thursday, Alex Cora could have delivered a middle-of-the-fairway acceptance speech. He could have thanked the Red Sox organization for the opportunity, made reference to a remarkable, historic championship season, graciously acknowledged the inevitable applause, and called it a day. But that is not what Cora does or who Cora is. The 43-year-old manager is a tone-setter, someone who isn’t shy about defining a bold vision of possibility — a bit cocky, a bit audacious, totally authentic. The words that Cora offered in accepting an award earned from a season in which his team won 119 games — more than all but one championship team in big league history — came across as genuine, not forced. “Somebody might write this, I don’t care,” Cora said. “If you guys thought last year was special, wait till this year.”
And with that, the ballroom at the InterContinental Hotel erupted. In 19 words, Cora waved off the notion of complacency or satisfaction for a team that soon will be confronted by a million questions about World Series hangovers and motivations. His attitude is infectious. Let it infect you all while releasing the negativity. I've often thought that teams take on the personality of its fans and that's one of the biggest reasons why the Red Sox would always choke. It took the cowboy up crew to ignore the fans' negativity and do the impossible. These days, there is literally no reason to be negative about anything regarding the Sox. Cora's attitude may be infectious, but his statement is silly. A lot of things came together to make this past season what it was, and the odds are that too many things will go wrong in the upcoming season for the Sox to come anywhere near duplicating what they did. I think JBJ's comment some weeks ago about the task in 2019 was much closer to reality than Cora's.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 19, 2019 18:34:22 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Drellich is reporting that the Sox are currently working on a extension with one of the team's core players. Rumors are it's Benintendi. It's not Bennintedi.
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Post by Smittyw on Jan 19, 2019 18:37:00 GMT -5
It's clearly my man Tzu-wei Lin.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 19, 2019 18:41:20 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 19, 2019 18:50:48 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 19, 2019 18:57:28 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 19, 2019 19:53:51 GMT -5
From the way that contracts are declining and shortening, it almost doesn't make sense to go nuts with extensions. They'd likely be higher than they would be on the open market.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 20, 2019 6:43:50 GMT -5
With this years 20m salary on top of last years 10m; Mookie has already hit the set for a comfortable life stage if he is smart with his money so there’s not much of a need to do an extension if you are him.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 20, 2019 9:33:46 GMT -5
With this years 20m salary on top of last years 10m; Mookie has already hit the set for a comfortable life stage if he is smart with his money so there’s not much of a need to do an extension if you are him. I could be comfortable with a LOT less even if I were not terribly smart with my money. I think back to when Yaz became the highest paid player at $140k not so terribly long ago...Salary and wage disparities have grown/are growing exponentially....no end in sight....median U.S. family income at $62,000 and average at $75,000..doesn't give me a peaceful, easy feeling. But back to baseball....
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Post by Guidas on Jan 20, 2019 9:43:42 GMT -5
With this years 20m salary on top of last years 10m; Mookie has already hit the set for a comfortable life stage if he is smart with his money so there’s not much of a need to do an extension if you are him. Correct. He is guaranteed to go to market, which means the Sox will have to go through an outright bidding war with other teams and be willing to pay him whatever extreme dollar figure Harper gets plus a bit more - because it goes up every year and figures to get even crazier with Trout in the same free agent market. That, or this is all a "Say the right thing" smoke screen too set us all up for and follow-up PR smokescreen of "We wish Mookie well" while out of the other side of their mouths/through their media stooges "Mookie obviously only cares about maximum dollars/got too greedy."
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 20, 2019 11:42:37 GMT -5
With this years 20m salary on top of last years 10m; Mookie has already hit the set for a comfortable life stage if he is smart with his money so there’s not much of a need to do an extension if you are him. Correct. He is guaranteed to go to market, which means the Sox will have to go through an outright bidding war with other teams and be willing to pay him whatever extreme dollar figure Harper gets plus a bit more - because it goes up every year and figures to get even crazier with Trout in the same free agent market. That, or this is all a "Say the right thing" smoke screen too set us all up for and follow-up PR smokescreen of "We wish Mookie well" while out of the other side of their mouths/through their media stooges "Mookie obviously only cares about maximum dollars/got too greedy." Oh come on. There is no way that can be known for certain. I'd put it at least around 50/50. That's just being negative and preparing for the worst. Plus, the contracts are going down, not up. I bet Harper doesn't even come close to the $300 million offer he got from the Nationals.
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