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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 16, 2019 15:53:06 GMT -5
Why doesn't the league come down on tampering and start fining players for talking about where they might want to go or not want to go while they're under contract with a different team? F'ing do your job and play for the team paying you. The Celtics weren't an acceptable team for Davis because he wanted to be traded at the deadline instead of waiting for the summer. It would never happen, but I'd love to see the Pelicans just refuse to trade him and make him play out his contract. Davis was fined but what’s a fine to that guy?
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Post by texs31 on Feb 16, 2019 16:01:45 GMT -5
This also lends some credibility to the narrative that the LAL offer is more underwhelming than some folks would have you believe.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 16, 2019 16:57:17 GMT -5
This also lends some credibility to the narrative that the LAL offer is more underwhelming than some folks would have you believe. It was to Demps but it may not be to the next GM or maybe it’s not to the stupid owner who could meddle.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 16, 2019 20:27:31 GMT -5
Davis said he's open to all 29 teams, just wants to win. Said he's still going to be a free agent in 2020 no matter what. That's a little different than saying he'd sign with the Celtics.
I gotta say I think Demps being fired kinda proves the opposite when it comes to the Lakers offer. Reports did say some within the team thought they should make it. Also Demps basically saying spite was the reason he wouldn't even discuss it had to be the final nail in the coffin. That quote of him saying if things weren't public maybe a deal could have been made. Kinda crazy, either it was a bad deal or a good deal. Either you liked it or you wanted to wait for a better deal. Saying that the media played a role is crazy. That won't go away until a deal is made.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 16, 2019 21:36:18 GMT -5
I gotta say I think Demps being fired kinda proves the opposite when it comes to the Lakers offer. Reports did say some within the team thought they should make it. Also Demps basically saying spite was the reason he wouldn't even discuss it had to be the final nail in the coffin. That quote of him saying if things weren't public maybe a deal could have been made. Kinda crazy, either it was a bad deal or a good deal. Either you liked it or you wanted to wait for a better deal. Saying that the media played a role is crazy. That won't go away until a deal is made. If that's real, than everyone else should be fired instead of Demps. You don't take that LA deal, not with Rich Paul playing you for a little sh*t and Lebron clearly trying to boss fools because he's not as good as Michael Jordan. You take that stand. I need to remind everyone that a LA team had just screwed a NO team out of the Super Bowl. Then you have an agent trying to force you to do something. I don't care what that something is, I don't care if the return LA was offering for Anthony Davis was Jesus Christ himself, you don't do that deal or you'd risk your entire fanbase. At some point the franchise needs to macho up or it doesn't matter who is playing for them since they're not going anywhere. Soft front offices lead to soft teams. Besides, they should get better offers in the offseason. It was just the Lakers bidding against themselves. Depending on the kind of pressure Irving is willing to apply, you could get the Celtics also down to overpay. And the Lakers offer will still be there. Win-win.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 16, 2019 23:27:35 GMT -5
Demps was thought to be getting fired well before the Davis demand. Most thought it would take place this offseason.
The story that's out there is that the reason he was fired was bc of the post deadline situation (including AD leaving the arena when pulled from the game and nobody knew).
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 17, 2019 8:05:51 GMT -5
As much as I hate to I am going to admit umass was right about Doncic, he is the real deal. Good call. In regards to his incessant, endless argument about Kyrie and the Celts are better without him. It is on the coach, IMO. If you have a great player whom it seems like the team plays better without isn't it on the coach to get them to mesh better. I am a big Stevens fan but his inability to get them to play better as a team with Kyrie is a mystery.
Given "the brow" has said he is open to playing in Boston I am all for it and expect it will get done. C's have the assets and Danny is the best exec in the league, he will get his man. IMO Davis is one of the top 5 players in the league, an absolute beast who plays both ends of the floor.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2019 8:16:55 GMT -5
As much as I hate to I am going to admit umass was right about Doncic, he is the real deal. Good call. Ummmm what? Is this sarcasm?
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 17, 2019 8:24:23 GMT -5
As much as I hate to I am going to admit umass was right about Doncic, he is the real deal. Good call. Ummmm what? Is this sarcasm? Not really, umass was really high on Doncic before the draft while I and others doubted his athleticism. AM I wrong?
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2019 8:30:06 GMT -5
Ummmm what? Is this sarcasm? Not really, umass was really high on Doncic before the draft while I and others doubted his athleticism. AM I wrong? Yes you are remembering the opposite
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 17, 2019 8:47:23 GMT -5
I gotta say I think Demps being fired kinda proves the opposite when it comes to the Lakers offer. Reports did say some within the team thought they should make it. Also Demps basically saying spite was the reason he wouldn't even discuss it had to be the final nail in the coffin. That quote of him saying if things weren't public maybe a deal could have been made. Kinda crazy, either it was a bad deal or a good deal. Either you liked it or you wanted to wait for a better deal. Saying that the media played a role is crazy. That won't go away until a deal is made. If that's real, than everyone else should be fired instead of Demps. You don't take that LA deal, not with Rich Paul playing you for a little sh*t and Lebron clearly trying to boss fools because he's not as good as Michael Jordan. You take that stand. I need to remind everyone that a LA team had just screwed a NO team out of the Super Bowl. Then you have an agent trying to force you to do something. I don't care what that something is, I don't care if the return LA was offering for Anthony Davis was Jesus Christ himself, you don't do that deal or you'd risk your entire fanbase. At some point the franchise needs to macho up or it doesn't matter who is playing for them since they're not going anywhere. Soft front offices lead to soft teams. Besides, they should get better offers in the offseason. It was just the Lakers bidding against themselves. Depending on the kind of pressure Irving is willing to apply, you could get the Celtics also down to overpay. And the Lakers offer will still be there. Win-win. I agree there is a problem the NBA needs to fix. I just think that is the NBA problem. I mean this isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. It's not just a Pelicans issue. At the same time the whole NBA wanted the Pelicans to make a stand and they did. You can say good for the NBA. Yet if your the GM of the Pelicans it should be whats good for your team. Not because Pop is pissed about Leonard leaving through a similar power play or because everyone hates players using the Lakers for leverage or players wanting to go there. You can be pissed off given what Davis and his agent did. Yet to go on record saying you never even really considered the Lakers offer because of everything is crazy. The fans don't care where or how Davis leaves, he's still leaving. They just want the best deal and for that team to win. If that Laker offer wasn't it ok, but to not even consider it out of spite is crazy. I don't know what in the world he was thinking to admit that. If I'm a fan that pisses me off more than anything. That the whole NBA convinced our GM to not even consider an offer of a team that was desperate and seemed to be going a little crazy. You can certainly debate the offer and compare it to others. I don't think you can look at that offer and say it's so bad you can't or shouldn't debate it, talk with them because the player and agent made a power play. Just look at Kuzma recently going off for 44 points, winning MVP of the young players game. I'm still convinced if they had really engaged with the Lakers and got three unprotected picks that is the best package a star player has ever been traded for. I'd take a Lakers unprotected first over the Grizz pick 5 years from now all day long. LeBron most likely is retired or a shell of himself. Davis and any new guys could have opted out and be gone by them. Heck maybe get a pick swap in year four also. The Lakers were desperate just like the Nets years ago and Demps wouldn't even see how stupid they would be. Shame on him! That offer is gone. Zubac a guy we both loved is gone. The ability to get salary relief is gone. The ability to gut that team and hope that an injury makes that Lakers pick top 10 is gone. Nevermind the Lakers wanted this done now. They wanted that extra run with Davis even when it seemed them gutting the team meant there would be no playoff run this year. As Magic said were now on to free agency and looking at other deals. The biggest thing is you've lost that sense of urgency that could have made them go crazy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 17, 2019 9:00:18 GMT -5
Not really, umass was really high on Doncic before the draft while I and others doubted his athleticism. AM I wrong? Yes you are remembering the opposite That isn't really true as I wasn't down on Doncic I said he would be a really good player because of his skill level. The debate was he the best player long-term in the draft and would his athleticism hold him back. So far he's one of the worst defenders in the game. It's funny how my comments keep getting taken out of contexts. Some how because I thought Doncic shouldn't be the first pick, its now I wasn't really high on him. Which just isn't true. I just think there will be better players long-term. Nothing I've seen changes my mind either. Heck ESPNs number one goal for Doncic to improve is to work on his body. I'm certainly not the only one that sees it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2019 9:10:55 GMT -5
Yes you are remembering the opposite It's funny how my comments keep getting taken out of contexts. Pot meet kettle
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 17, 2019 9:17:53 GMT -5
It's funny how my comments keep getting taken out of contexts. Pot meet kettle Yea everyone does it, yet I've explained my take on Doncic completely, just like you did with Brown. You can't just keep taking it out of context.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2019 9:17:56 GMT -5
Yes you are remembering the opposite That isn't really true It’s actually 100% true. You just complained about comments being taken out of context yet did just that. Voice congratulated you for being right on Doncic because he thought you were the one who didn’t think his athleticism is a problem. So it was corrected to say you are the one questioning his athleticism. Nothing more nothing less. No ones saying you think he’s trash. Voice thought you were the one not worried about athleticism that was wrong it was pointed out. The end. Hence it’s very true. Yes, I stated it twice for emphasis hoping you realize this is all it’s about. From here the conversation can go in two directions: 1. The normal one where someone in your position says “oh my bad, yes that’s right” 2. Continue bringing up stuff that’s not in the very simple discussion.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 17, 2019 9:23:10 GMT -5
It’s actually 100% true. You just complained about comments being taken out of context yet did just that. Voice congratulated you for being right on Doncic because he thought you were the one who didn’t think his athleticism is a problem. So it was corrected to say you are the one questioning his athleticism. Nothing more nothing less. No ones saying you think he’s trash. Voice thought you were the one not worried about athleticism that was wrong it was pointed out. The end. Hence it’s very true. Yes, I stated it twice for emphasis hoping you realize this is all it’s about. From here the conversation can go in two directions: 1. The normal one where someone in your position says “oh my bad, yes that’s right” 2. Continue bringing up stuff that’s not in the very simple discussion. I didn't think Doncic was going to be bad. I did and still do question his athleticism. It's 50% true. The opposite of what he said was Doncic is bad because of his athleticism. I never said that.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 17, 2019 9:45:08 GMT -5
Not really, umass was really high on Doncic before the draft while I and others doubted his athleticism. AM I wrong? Yes you are remembering the opposite Was it you that was high on Doncic? If so congrats it was a great call. I know it was somebody and I was of the opinion he wasn't a great athlete.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 17, 2019 9:50:32 GMT -5
Are you guys secretly married? You argue like you are.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 17, 2019 13:26:30 GMT -5
I agree there is a problem the NBA needs to fix. I just think that is the NBA problem. I mean this isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. It's not just a Pelicans issue. At the same time the whole NBA wanted the Pelicans to make a stand and they did. You can say good for the NBA. Yet if your the GM of the Pelicans it should be whats good for your team. Not because Pop is pissed about Leonard leaving through a similar power play or because everyone hates players using the Lakers for leverage or players wanting to go there. You can be pissed off given what Davis and his agent did. Yet to go on record saying you never even really considered the Lakers offer because of everything is crazy. The fans don't care where or how Davis leaves, he's still leaving. They just want the best deal and for that team to win. If that Laker offer wasn't it ok, but to not even consider it out of spite is crazy. I don't know what in the world he was thinking to admit that. If I'm a fan that pisses me off more than anything. That the whole NBA convinced our GM to not even consider an offer of a team that was desperate and seemed to be going a little crazy. You can certainly debate the offer and compare it to others. I don't think you can look at that offer and say it's so bad you can't or shouldn't debate it, talk with them because the player and agent made a power play. Just look at Kuzma recently going off for 44 points, winning MVP of the young players game. I'm still convinced if they had really engaged with the Lakers and got three unprotected picks that is the best package a star player has ever been traded for. I'd take a Lakers unprotected first over the Grizz pick 5 years from now all day long. LeBron most likely is retired or a shell of himself. Davis and any new guys could have opted out and be gone by them. Heck maybe get a pick swap in year four also. The Lakers were desperate just like the Nets years ago and Demps wouldn't even see how stupid they would be. Shame on him! That offer is gone. Zubac a guy we both loved is gone. The ability to get salary relief is gone. The ability to gut that team and hope that an injury makes that Lakers pick top 10 is gone. Nevermind the Lakers wanted this done now. They wanted that extra run with Davis even when it seemed them gutting the team meant there would be no playoff run this year. As Magic said were now on to free agency and looking at other deals. The biggest thing is you've lost that sense of urgency that could have made them go crazy. I'd agree with you that they should have taken the deal if it involved Kuzma, Ingram, Zubac and picks, but that's only if we take everything out of the equation. Context really matters here, Rich Paul overplayed his hand like a complete and utter moron and it would have been bad for the Pelicans to even engage in this deal. The only reasonable option was to mock the Lakers and screw them instead. They could have gotten a nice package, but that would come at a cost of their fanbase. If I'm a New Orleans guy and I just watched the Rams beat the Saints on an amateur hour non-call and I see Rich Paul telling my team to trade its best player ever to another LA and my front office complies? I'm supporting another team. I know that winning cures everything, but they're not winning with that LA core. LA isn't winning with that LA core. It would be a 2-3 years rebuild and you alienated most of the fanbase. Yeah those are some nice prospects to build around for the future, but that future would be in Seattle.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 18, 2019 9:32:05 GMT -5
As a fan that would drive me nuts. A Basketball GM making decisions based off what happened in football.
The great thing about being a Boston fan is our GMs don't care about what the fans think. They do what's best for the team and the fans love them in the long run for just that.
So I ask myself what would Danny Ainge do? He'd have explored the deal and made it if he thought it was the best deal he could get. No way he lets optics or spite get in the way of what's best for the team. I love him for that.
Anyone remember the Rasheed Wallace trade? The Pistons wanted him but couldn't make the trade, needed a third team. The whole NBA was like no, begging teams don't do it. A new GM in Boston didn't care, he made the deal because he wanted that first round pick. Which turned into Tony Allen who helped us win a Championship.
The Pelicans are 26th out of 30 teams in attendance right now. It's not like your trying to keep a bunch of fans, there aren't any now with Davis. Don I get it, the Fans would be pissed. Yet if it's the best long-term move you need to make it or at least figure out if it's the best deal or not. If in the end you come to RJPs conclusion that Boston is better or Pedro's I'm waiting on the Knicks and that number one pick. Ok that makes perfect sense. You can't say the guy didn't do everything he could to help his team. The NBA needs to fix this, yet isn't this the exact samething Melo did to the Knicks like a decade ago?
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 18, 2019 10:10:20 GMT -5
As a fan that would drive me nuts. A Basketball GM making decisions based off what happened in football. The great thing about being a Boston fan is our GMs don't care about what the fans think. They do what's best for the team and the fans love them in the long run for just that. So I ask myself what would Danny Ainge do? He'd have explored the deal and made it if he thought it was the best deal he could get. No way he lets optics or spite get in the way of what's best for the team. I love him for that. Anyone remember the Rasheed Wallace trade? The Pistons wanted him but couldn't make the trade, needed a third team. The whole NBA was like no, begging teams don't do it. A new GM in Boston didn't care, he made the deal because he wanted that first round pick. Which turned into Tony Allen who helped us win a Championship. The Pelicans are 26th out of 30 teams in attendance right now. It's not like your trying to keep a bunch of fans, there aren't any now with Davis. Don I get it, the Fans would be pissed. Yet if it's the best long-term move you need to make it or at least figure out if it's the best deal or not. If in the end you come to RJPs conclusion that Boston is better or Pedro's I'm waiting on the Knicks and that number one pick. Ok that makes perfect sense. You can't say the guy didn't do everything he could to help his team. The NBA needs to fix this, yet isn't this the exact samething Melo did to the Knicks like a decade ago? I don't think it's comparable to the Wallace trade or even the Melo situation. It was unique, Rich Paul managed to overdo it so hysterically that for me it burned those bridges. You don't do a trade that could lead to your team moving out of town and that's where Paul and Lebron managed to put the Pelicans. You don't negotiate with terrorists. And besides, eventually doing a deal with the Lakers is better than rushing to do one. I really like Zubac but it's not that big of a loss all things considered. If they're still offering Ingram, Kuzma and picks, the Pels could still do it in the offseason. Then you have the Knicks with a high pick and DSJ. And you have the Celtics with Tatum. You have other 26 teams in the league that could jump into the action. You have options and you don't alienate your fanbase that hard.
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Post by prangerx on Feb 18, 2019 14:57:49 GMT -5
The Davis comments don't make it anymore likely that he wants to come to Boston. They were just a half assed attempt to dodge the question. Later he said he would play for 29 other teams. Its all lip service. He would be hoping to playing anywhere next season but won't re-sign.
Its looking like there is no chance of keeping Kyrie without trading for Davis. But there is also no chance of trading of getting Davis without trading Tatum. Which would be crazy if you have no extension with Davis. The scary part is that it sounds like Danny is willing to take that gamble. Which is crazy.
At this point Kyrie wants to be the next Labron and control everything. I don't think he is evergonna commit long term to the Celtics. I also think he is going to New York or Brooklyn. Celtics should have traded him where they had the chance , even if the value there would have been low.
But !osing Kyrie and keeping Tatum is better then trading for Davis and losing everything the next season. At least the you still have your young core and have hope that the memphis pick conveys as a lottery pick next season or whenever. Plus you would still have Hayward,who will hopefully make a big comeback.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 18, 2019 15:47:49 GMT -5
As a fan that would drive me nuts. A Basketball GM making decisions based off what happened in football. The great thing about being a Boston fan is our GMs don't care about what the fans think. They do what's best for the team and the fans love them in the long run for just that. So I ask myself what would Danny Ainge do? He'd have explored the deal and made it if he thought it was the best deal he could get. No way he lets optics or spite get in the way of what's best for the team. I love him for that. Anyone remember the Rasheed Wallace trade? The Pistons wanted him but couldn't make the trade, needed a third team. The whole NBA was like no, begging teams don't do it. A new GM in Boston didn't care, he made the deal because he wanted that first round pick. Which turned into Tony Allen who helped us win a Championship. The Pelicans are 26th out of 30 teams in attendance right now. It's not like your trying to keep a bunch of fans, there aren't any now with Davis. Don I get it, the Fans would be pissed. Yet if it's the best long-term move you need to make it or at least figure out if it's the best deal or not. If in the end you come to RJPs conclusion that Boston is better or Pedro's I'm waiting on the Knicks and that number one pick. Ok that makes perfect sense. You can't say the guy didn't do everything he could to help his team. The NBA needs to fix this, yet isn't this the exact samething Melo did to the Knicks like a decade ago? I don't think it's comparable to the Wallace trade or even the Melo situation. It was unique, Rich Paul managed to overdo it so hysterically that for me it burned those bridges. You don't do a trade that could lead to your team moving out of town and that's where Paul and Lebron managed to put the Pelicans. You don't negotiate with terrorists. And besides, eventually doing a deal with the Lakers is better than rushing to do one. I really like Zubac but it's not that big of a loss all things considered. If they're still offering Ingram, Kuzma and picks, the Pels could still do it in the offseason. Then you have the Knicks with a high pick and DSJ. And you have the Celtics with Tatum. You have other 26 teams in the league that could jump into the action. You have options and you don't alienate your fanbase that hard. Why is it different than Melo? It's been a while, but didn't he force a trade to only one team? Let's not forget Davis did request a trade and given the timing he wanted to be a Laker. His agent was just doing what he wanted. Everyone knew this day was coming, like non-stop talk for two years now. It was just a matter of when, not if. So I don't know what to say about the team moving or terrorists. It just seems everyone hates the Lakers and wants them to fail. The Chris Paul trade is still the only trade in my lifetime that the league voided. Does the whole league rise up if it was some other team? Yea I have zero issue with the Pelicans doing anything but not willing to listen to a desperate team. I've never said they needed to make a deal, I just think it was rather stupid to not engage and see how far they would go. They kept increasing that offer every twelve hours and there weren't even any trade talks going on. Just my two cents but I'd want me GM to at minimum see if a Nets type trade can be made. If not you wait. It was a unique situation that won't exist this offseason. You know the Knicks don't get the top pick, Irving just wants out and won't resign or the massive Celtics offer featuring Tatum isn't on the table. If I'm Magic and they come crawling back, I"m offering less because it means no better offers are out there. A guy like Kuzma sure seems to be raising his stock. Celtics drag it out, Lakers move on to a guy like Bradley Beal so they can lure a top free agent. Heck Davis could get injured training in the offseason. I would have wanted my GM to at Minimum engage them and I certainly don't want him telling the world if the talks weren't public a deal might have been made. Just my two cents, not trying to change your mind either. Heck maybe your right, I have no clue about Pelican fans.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 18, 2019 16:36:28 GMT -5
Why is it different than Melo? It's been a while, but didn't he force a trade to only one team? Let's not forget Davis did request a trade and given the timing he wanted to be a Laker. His agent was just doing what he wanted. Everyone knew this day was coming, like non-stop talk for two years now. It was just a matter of when, not if. So I don't know what to say about the team moving or terrorists. It just seems everyone hates the Lakers and wants them to fail. The Chris Paul trade is still the only trade in my lifetime that the league voided. Does the whole league rise up if it was some other team? Yea I have zero issue with the Pelicans doing anything but not willing to listen to a desperate team. I've never said they needed to make a deal, I just think it was rather stupid to not engage and see how far they would go. They kept increasing that offer every twelve hours and there weren't even any trade talks going on. Just my two cents but I'd want me GM to at minimum see if a Nets type trade can be made. If not you wait. It was a unique situation that won't exist this offseason. You know the Knicks don't get the top pick, Irving just wants out and won't resign or the massive Celtics offer featuring Tatum isn't on the table. If I'm Magic and they come crawling back, I"m offering less because it means no better offers are out there. A guy like Kuzma sure seems to be raising his stock. Celtics drag it out, Lakers move on to a guy like Bradley Beal so they can lure a top free agent. Heck Davis could get injured training in the offseason. I would have wanted my GM to at Minimum engage them and I certainly don't want him telling the world if the talks weren't public a deal might have been made. Just my two cents, not trying to change your mind either. Heck maybe your right, I have no clue about Pelican fans. It simply was different, the agent applied some real pressure to get this deal done with the Lakers. The league voided the Chris Paul deal because they were the acting owners of the (then) Hornets at the time, it's questionable if they should have done that but it was under a very specific circumstance. It's also not comparable with the Nets deal because AD is still in his prime and he is the best player to ask for a trade in a long time. You don't rush to deal those guys. Yeah he could get injured, but so could anyone on that Lakers offer. Kuzma could get injured in the first game as a Pelican and have to amputate his leg. Lebron could get tired of teammates doing his mom and retire tomorrow, Tatum could drop basketball and live as traveling monk, anything could happen. It's no use throwing out hypothetic scenarios, the point is that while the Lakers offer was good, it wasn't good enough to risk alienating your entire fanbase. That's the thing. For better or worse, there was a real sense that the Pelicans were being held as hostages there. The fans really didn't want the trade. Like really didn't. The package was good, but not worth that risk.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 18, 2019 19:19:09 GMT -5
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