|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 26, 2019 12:19:49 GMT -5
Arenado is so overrated. This is a terrible contract. I would have loved it for the Yankees to decide that was the guy they finally decided to spend money on. If Arenado is worth that much, how much is this guy worth? People said the same thing about Matt Holiday. It's the Coors Field road penalty: plus.fangraphs.com/does-coors-field-make-rockies-batters-worse-on-the-road/Also as to your question about player B, I would certainly be better able to answer the question if you just told me who it was... Mookie
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Feb 26, 2019 12:20:53 GMT -5
Zero people on earth think Arenado is better than Mookie.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 26, 2019 12:23:17 GMT -5
Arenado is so overrated. This is a terrible contract. I would have loved it for the Yankees to decide that was the guy they finally decided to spend money on. That... includes those two years before he got good, which is still roughly 1/3 of his career. His wRC+ on the road the last four years are 119, 116, 126, 104. Throw in that he's an outstanding defensive third baseman, and that's a hell of a player even if you don't believe in any Coors Field hangover effect. Here's his 2018. I agree he's a good player, but don't believe he's close to the best player in the league. He's closer to Xander than Mookie IMO.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 26, 2019 12:24:38 GMT -5
Zero people on earth think Arenado is better than Mookie. I didn't say anyone did. I said if Arenado is worth that much, how much is Mookie worth? It's gotta be more than $40 million now because of this dumb contract.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Feb 26, 2019 12:25:10 GMT -5
That... includes those two years before he got good, which is still roughly 1/3 of his career. His wRC+ on the road the last four years are 119, 116, 126, 104. Throw in that he's an outstanding defensive third baseman, and that's a hell of a player even if you don't believe in any Coors Field hangover effect. Here's his 2018. I agree he's a good player, but don't believe he's close to the best player in the league. He's closer to Xander than Mookie IMO. Nobody... thinks he's the best player in the league. The best player in the league is Trout. The next best is probably Betts. There's a list of several people who could be third, and Arenado is on it. And I don't think the Arenado deal moved the needle on Betts' much, if at all. He was already looking at the richest contract in baseball history.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 26, 2019 12:29:08 GMT -5
Here's his 2018. I agree he's a good player, but don't believe he's close to the best player in the league. He's closer to Xander than Mookie IMO. Nobody... thinks he's the best player in the league. The best player in the league is Trout. The next best is probably Betts. There's a list of several people who could be third, and Arenado is on it. Not sure if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me because that's pretty much what I said. When I said "close to the best player in the league" that is not saying "he's the best player in the league". He's being paid like he's at least the 3rd best player in the league now even though he's being paid the most. I think he's closer to top 20 than top 3 because of his splits.
|
|
orion09
Veteran
Posts: 1,220
Member is Online
|
Post by orion09 on Feb 26, 2019 12:59:14 GMT -5
Kikuchi making Joey Votto look silly. The combination of hiding the ball well, hesitating delivery, and big 12-6 curve reminds me of another west coast lefty.
it’s super early, but I think he’s gonna be good, maybe even 1a good.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 26, 2019 13:17:11 GMT -5
Kikuchi making Joey Votto look silly. The combination of hiding the ball well, hesitating delivery, and big 12-6 curve reminds me of another west coast lefty. it’s super early, but I think he’s gonna be good, maybe even 1a good. I think it's a little early to make any predictions like that. But I'll applaud you if you're right. Funky deliveries take about 10 plate appearances to get used to. Plus the pitchers are usually way ahead of the hitters at this point of the season.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Feb 26, 2019 14:15:05 GMT -5
That's the ugliest swing I've ever seen Joey Votto take. Can't read too much into one swing, of course... but Votto's not usually one who gets fooled like that.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 26, 2019 14:51:11 GMT -5
Nobody... thinks he's the best player in the league. The best player in the league is Trout. The next best is probably Betts. There's a list of several people who could be third, and Arenado is on it. Not sure if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me because that's pretty much what I said. When I said "close to the best player in the league" that is not saying "he's the best player in the league". He's being paid like he's at least the 3rd best player in the league now even though he's being paid the most. I think he's closer to top 20 than top 3 because of his splits. He's probably going to get the third biggest deal just this offseason. This seems perfectly in line with the market set by Stanton and Machado. If anything it's a bit of a bargain compared to those deals.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 26, 2019 15:39:59 GMT -5
It's replacing his one year 28 million deal. So it's really 7 years 232 million. Slightly higher AAV than Manny, but less years. Seems about right given his age. The interesting thing is they did this a year early and didn't seem to get a discount for the extra risk. Like anyone think he gets more next year as a free agent?
Why not offer Betts 10 years 350 million right now. If you do it now you buyout two arbitration years and reduce risk. I don't care about the luxury tax either. Money well spent. If he won't sign that, I'd be a little nervous. Pay him more now to get an 8 year 280 million deal later. Would he really turn down the biggest contract ever?
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Feb 27, 2019 12:36:50 GMT -5
Kikuchi making Joey Votto look silly. The combination of hiding the ball well, hesitating delivery, and big 12-6 curve reminds me of another west coast lefty. it’s super early, but I think he’s gonna be good, maybe even 1a good. Glorious nippon saving baseball. What a beautiful country.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Feb 27, 2019 22:31:16 GMT -5
I was OK with the trade when it happened, but I also was really disappointed in moving Buttrey. Good to see him have some success in MLB last year. Nice brief interview that really reminded me of how some very talented guys get lost during development. It’ll be interesting to see how his inclusion in the Kinsler deal looks as the team goes through sorting out the bullpen this year. Definitely a guy who would’ve been in the mix this spring as a potential late-inning option: blogs.fangraphs.com/angels-righty-ty-buttrey-on-how-he-turned-a-corner/
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Feb 27, 2019 22:38:14 GMT -5
It's replacing his one year 28 million deal. So it's really 7 years 232 million. Slightly higher AAV than Manny, but less years. Seems about right given his age. The interesting thing is they did this a year early and didn't seem to get a discount for the extra risk. Like anyone think he gets more next year as a free agent? Why not offer Betts 10 years 350 million right now. If you do it now you buyout two arbitration years and reduce risk. I don't care about the luxury tax either. Money well spent. If he won't sign that, I'd be a little nervous. Pay him more now to get an 8 year 280 million deal later. Would he really turn down the biggest contract ever? 10/$350 would be very fair for both sides, IMO. They could potentially structure it with deferred $ too, and an escalating (or even crescendo-decrescendo shape) to stay under the lux tax this year. Something like 20-30-35-35-38-40-40-40-37-35. I honestly think he’ll still be providing value on the back end; Mookie’s a better hitter than Cano, who’s retained his value to his mid-30s. I would be genuinely surprised (barring injury) to see Mookie being a sub-4 WAR player at 35.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Feb 27, 2019 22:39:05 GMT -5
Kikuchi making Joey Votto look silly. The combination of hiding the ball well, hesitating delivery, and big 12-6 curve reminds me of another west coast lefty. it’s super early, but I think he’s gonna be good, maybe even 1a good. Glorious nippon saving baseball. What a beautiful country. I love the funky hitch in his delivery. And yeah, he hides the ball extraordinarily well.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Feb 28, 2019 14:50:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 28, 2019 14:59:44 GMT -5
10/330 with opt outs still being discussed. I’d be pissed if I were a Nationals fan after the original offer was so close.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Feb 28, 2019 15:01:01 GMT -5
Passan's saying 13/330.
$25M AAV for Bryce Harper is a steal.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 28, 2019 15:03:39 GMT -5
13/330 with no opt outs, I bet Boras is throwing around bricks of gold in anger.
I bet this contract makes Pujols and Cabrera look like good deals.
Phillies better hope the DH comes and that Harper doesn’t have a huge DH penalty.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 28, 2019 15:37:03 GMT -5
Passan's saying 13/330. $25M AAV for Bryce Harper is a steal. Yeah, the 13 years is really scary, but if Harper ages well then that could be an all-time great contract.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Feb 28, 2019 15:39:56 GMT -5
I mean that's certainly less $ than I would have thought for a 13 year deal, and it's way too close to what Washington supposedly offered, even with the deferred money, to make it seem like there was any thought of him going back there. He wanted to leave and wanted to set the record for the largest contract ever signed.
What's crazy is that there's a high possibility that both Mookie and Trout sign deals for a total $ amount for more than $330 within the next 18 months.
I don't think you can really call such a length deal a steal given his injury history and inconsistency, but Philly has definitely mitigated some of the risk by going with the lower AAV, and opened up the option of adding a guy like Trout and still not totally worrying about the top luxury tax limit
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Feb 28, 2019 15:42:42 GMT -5
That seems like a reasonable deal, compared to Machado. I’m definitely surprised. A 300/10 would seem like a better deal for all involved.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 28, 2019 16:04:22 GMT -5
13/330 with no opt outs, I bet Boras is throwing around bricks of gold in anger. I bet this contract makes Pujols and Cabrera look like good deals. Phillies better hope the DH comes and that Harper doesn’t have a huge DH penalty. 13 year deal. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a DH in the NL around within 5 years of the deal. Meanwhile, he should be fine in the outfield for the next five years or so and then if there is no DH they can hand him a 1b glove. Jeez, between Harper, Segura, Realmuto, and McCutchen the Phillies have really upgraded their offense. If Hoskins steps up, look out. $25 million/year shouldn't cripple them. They probably have room to add Kimbrel, so if they do that, between Kimbrel and Robertson they really would upgrade that bullpen. The Phillies are going to be a handful if Kapler can keep them from combusting.
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 28, 2019 16:07:03 GMT -5
That seems like a reasonable deal, compared to Machado. I’m definitely surprised. A 300/10 would seem like a better deal for all involved. How do you figure that would be better for Harper?
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,830
|
Post by nomar on Feb 28, 2019 16:20:49 GMT -5
25M isn’t going to be a big deal in 13 years and the DH is definitely coming to the NL in due time. I don’t think this deal is bad for Philly but injury the the biggest risk with a deal this long.
|
|