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2018 MLB Awards Thread (Gold Glove, MVP, etc.)
ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 25, 2018 16:52:18 GMT -5
BA names Dave Dombrowski as Executive of the Year. It's in the print issue which arrived Friday but not yet online. Excellent story which I'll link to if it's not behind their paywall. He's one of their few 2-time winners. Baird talks about his ability to nail free agency and the trade deadline. They don't mention what seems to be his biggest strength, which his ability to judge his own prospect talent. Cross your fingers, but so far Manny Margot is closer to Cameron Maybin than an All-Star, Moncada looks like his contact issues will forever limit him to below superstar, and Espinoza and Kopech's injuries have put their careers in doubt )although there may be some luck involved with that).
I always root for our ex prospects to do well. Maybe you should uncross yours. I want them to do well, too -- I just don't want them to do so well that we end up losing the trades. Because, then, your team is being run by a GM who makes bad trades.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 25, 2018 16:52:44 GMT -5
He was flawless outside of the Kinsler trade. Gave up a just a tad too much on that deal, but what a year for Dombrowski. His best year in his 30 years as a GM. I think the Kinsler trade issue was the other side of the equation, we didn't give up that much but Kinsler under-performed his history. I thought Buttrey was going to be a really decent middle reliever, that's why I thought giving up 6 plus years for him was a bit too much. The Sox have the depth at that spot and it can be sort of justified. You're right about Kinsler though. He really was a platoon partner with Holt by the time the playoffs was over.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Nov 25, 2018 17:28:25 GMT -5
I think the Kinsler trade issue was the other side of the equation, we didn't give up that much but Kinsler under-performed his history. I thought Buttrey was going to be a really decent middle reliever, that's why I thought giving up 6 plus years for him was a bit too much. The Sox have the depth at that spot and it can be sort of justified. You're right about Kinsler though. He really was a platoon partner with Holt by the time the playoffs was over. Is my recent memory really that far gone? I remember Kinsler plugging defensive holes at 2B, making the routine plays and some really good plays. While his bat was off, he still contributed including ancouplenof game winning big hits. I can’t hold that game 3 on slip n slide turf against him any more than Buckner’s famous error. He wasn’t perfect, and not up to the heights achieved by Eovaldi and Pearce, but he helped us win until he didn’t.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 25, 2018 18:27:05 GMT -5
I thought Buttrey was going to be a really decent middle reliever, that's why I thought giving up 6 plus years for him was a bit too much. The Sox have the depth at that spot and it can be sort of justified. You're right about Kinsler though. He really was a platoon partner with Holt by the time the playoffs was over. Is my recent memory really that far gone? I remember Kinsler plugging defensive holes at 2B, making the routine plays and some really good plays. While his bat was off, he still contributed including ancouplenof game winning big hits. I can’t hold that game 3 on slip n slide turf against him any more than Buckner’s famous error. He wasn’t perfect, and not up to the heights achieved by Eovaldi and Pearce, but he helped us win until he didn’t. Kinsler was worth -0.1 bWAR with his time with the Sox during the season. He brought the glove, which was nice but not much beyond that. Buttrey was worth 0.1 bWAR and he still has 6 more years of control. The Sox lost on a minor deal, but it's no biggie.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 25, 2018 18:57:32 GMT -5
I always root for our ex prospects to do well. Maybe you should uncross yours. I want them to do well, too -- I just don't want them to do so well that we end up losing the trades. Because, then, your team is being run by a GM who makes bad trades. That's not true, we have a World Series. Having a GM that always wins trades on a stat basis makes for a GM that will find it difficult to find people to trade with. Ask Red Auerbach's ghost.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 25, 2018 21:40:47 GMT -5
I want them to do well, too -- I just don't want them to do so well that we end up losing the trades. Because, then, your team is being run by a GM who makes bad trades. That's not true, we have a World Series. Having a GM that always wins trades on a stat basis makes for a GM that will find it difficult to find people to trade with. Ask Red Auerbach's ghost. A trade that wins you a WS is never a bad trade; at worst, it's a trade that both teams won. They can't lose the Sale trade. No one regrets the Mike Boddicker trade even though they lost it on paper big-time, because it won them a playoff berth in an era when they were uncommon .
They can still lose the Kimbrel trade. They traded for an elite closer and got three years that were just very good, elite, and merely better than average. They did finish first the year he was elite but they got nowhere in the post-season. If Margot becomes a cost-controlled All-Star in his last three years of control, with JBJ gone and our 3rd OF spot manned just adequately while we're a second place team and have little post-season success ... then that was, in the end, a bad trade.
That's a lot of ifs, but if Margot doesn't become a great player, you won't regret that trade. It won't become an ongoing source of frustration because he'd be a difference maker had we kept him, and what we got for him in the end made surprisingly little difference.
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I did ask Red's ghost, or, more precisely, I asked my Dad's ghost to ask Red (just as he once got playoff tix for us the same way). Red laughed. He pointed out that he had been making trades for nearly thirty years when he traded the #1 pick in the draft to the Warriors for their #3 pick, knowing that the best player in the draft, Kevin McHale, would still still be available at #3; and in compensation got the Warriors to give them Robert Parrish for the #12 pick.
Red didn't stop there. He pointed out that three years after the trade that was already being nominated as the biggest steal in NBA history, he dealt Rick Robey for Dennis Johnson (and -- I'm not sure if I ever knew this -- a draft pick that became backup C Greg Kite). Which had people saying, hold it, didn't Red just do it again?
Red didn't mention it, but a couple of years after that he swapped a backup guard (Gerald Henderson) for a pick that ended up as the #2 overall. But the aftermath of that still makes him sad, even Up There. And it was essentially responsible for him ceasing to be the active GM.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 25, 2018 22:01:56 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Nov 25, 2018 22:03:12 GMT -5
I don't think Alex Cora wins the Manager of the Year award - tough for a guy with the highest payroll to win that award and Kevin Cash with the way he managed a team that lacked for reliable starting and had issues on offense and Bob Melvin, for the way he managed a small market team to 97 wins are worthy manager of the year award winners, but Alex Cora....I mean the difference between John Farrell's 93 wins in 2016 and 2017 and Alex Cora's 108 wins in 2018 aren't totally explainable by JD Martinez. Maybe that got them to 100 wins or thereabouts but Cora is the difference maker. It's very visible. And this award doesn't take the post season into account where people could see why Cora was a difference maker as a manager and see why the team was greater than the sum of its parts. I just hope the voters look beyond the huge payroll and expectations and see a worthy manager of the year in Alex Cora. He totally deserves it in my biased opinion. So much “yes!” here.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 25, 2018 22:14:25 GMT -5
What accounted for the A's 22 game improvement ? The fact that the A's really stunk the year before. I mean, look at manager John Farrell circa 2013 and Alex Cora circa 2018. John Farrell improved the Red Sox from 69 wins to 97 wins, a whopping 28 game improvement. Meanwhile Alex Cora improved a 93 win Red Sox team to 108 wins, which is "only" a 15 game improvement. So by that logic I guess John Farrell was a better manger in 2013 than Alex Cora in 2018? You watched both of those guys up close during both seasons. Would you conclude that? I guess Farrell was helped out by the fact that Bobby Valentine was so atrocious in 2012? I don't want to say that Melvin doesn't deserve it - perhaps he does? But I knew that Cora had no chance at all and I'm thinking what in the world could he have done better? Hope that his predecessor Farrell was as bad as Valentine before him so they could have a massive improvement? To me the Sox were a really good team that apparently had potential to be an all-time juggernaut - that wasn't really that apparent to me and given some of the issues he had to deal with (like I mentioned before the lack of productivity at almost half the positions on the field and his ace pitcher, the best in the league when healthy, gone for two months), I'd say it was a tremendous performance. Likewise Melvin had to deal with Manaea being gone. He did have a lot of good young maturing players who matured while some others had fantastic seasons. Chapman took a big step forward. Olson in the lineup everyday was a factor and he combined with the leading HR hitter in the majors Khris Davis to give them a fearsome lineup. Lowrie had his best season arguably. Canha took a step forward. Piscotty had an excellent season. Semien was productive. Melvin had the best closer in the league, too. I don't think many thought Blake Treinen would being so dominating and I'm sure that's a part of how the A's exceeded their record. Get a close game and Treinen hardly ever gives up a run - good formula for winning a lot of games that may have slipped the year before. Melvin did a great job of juggling his pitching staff. As did Cash, given that Tampa never really had 5 presentable starters and their offense looked like it would lack punch. Truthfully the Rays were the only team in 2018 to totally manhandle the Red Sox in a series, which they did in August, so Cash does deserve a ton of credit, too. It's just that the Sox are among the top teams this century in wins and they were able to do so despite issues that I think most managers would have had trouble maximizing performance from, so yeah I wonder what more Cora could have possibly done. Break the all-time win mark? What would have worked? As a baseball card collector, I was hoping his winning the award would generate a manager baseball card of Cora. Apparently Topps Now already put one out when he was in showcasing the trophy in Puerto Rico, but I missed it and those things are damn expensive. So I had another ulterior motive for wanting Cora to win (other than I thought he was very deserving) Lol I’ve got a TON of old baseball cards. Bunches of Pedro Bowman rookies (and upper deck extendeds), Clemens fleer and Donruss ‘85s, Bonds, RJ upper deck...it’s funny I just looked in the box the other day. I’d forgotten I had such a collection. Always regretted not trading my ‘87 Fleer Kevin Mitchells at a show out in SF that one year he went nuts for an ‘84 Fleer Update Clemens. Got an ‘86 Donruss Canseco instead...and no idea why cuz I loved Clemens back then and I couldn’t stand Canseco. D’Oh! Thanks for the walk down memory lane tho...I miss those collectin’ days. As for your take on Cora, I think you’re dead-on. I think both Melvin and Cash were also very deserving, but having watched the Sox all year, it’s egregiously obvious how awesome Cora was. Their payroll and roster of stars really meant he had no chance, short of winning 117.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 25, 2018 22:36:33 GMT -5
I think the Kinsler trade issue was the other side of the equation, we didn't give up that much but Kinsler under-performed his history. I thought Buttrey was going to be a really decent middle reliever, that's why I thought giving up 6 plus years for him was a bit too much. The Sox have the depth at that spot and it can be sort of justified. You're right about Kinsler though. He really was a platoon partner with Holt by the time the playoffs was over. I think Buttrey’s going to be a solid, probably not spectacular, back-end RP within 3 years. I think it was a bit of a mistake to give him up, given the premium on relievers of that ilk, but I got why Dombrowski did it. I’d have preferred he take a different route given Buttrey’s proximity to MLB, at-time team need, and the defections of this winter. I didn’t make a stink at the time cuz they really needed Kinsler defensively (and rentals are usually terrible deals, so there’s little chance of not getting screwed a little). The WS win lessens the sting, but imagine if they had promoted Buttrey and he pitched the way he did for LAA. That’s a $27M over three years savings on Joe Kelly. Kind of like tossing in Logan Allen...DD is a very good MLB talent evaluator, and he tends to get good returns in trades...but he also tends to give up too much when he probably doesn’t have to, just so he can get it done and move on. There’s a price for that, which grows with time. Still, I thought he did a terrific job with identifying areas of need and making mostly solid deals that netted excellent fits in return. Pearce and Eovaldi were legit *perfect* moves from a RS perspective.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 26, 2018 9:24:46 GMT -5
The Red Sox had Buttrey in the organization for the better part of seven years. He was thoroughly evaluated. The idea that him pitching well for three weeks would've changed their calculus as far as a need for a set-up man would speak less well of Dombrowski and the baseball ops team than if they simply missed on his evaluation in the first place.
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