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Nathan Eovaldi (re-signed: 4 years/$68 million)
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Post by azblue on Dec 4, 2018 12:13:49 GMT -5
Eovaldi was born in Houston, so he probably doesn't think Houston is a horrible place to live.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 4, 2018 13:38:18 GMT -5
The real bonus is the amount of federal disaster money thrown in to account for the fact the place is built on a swamp, at the intersection of five bayous. We can all help with that free lunch. Houston is awful. It's like L.A. with really bad weather. I gotta respond to this. After being born and bred in Boston, the Cape, New England, and having lived in several awesome cities around the country, I wound up a transplant to soCal, in the LA area, and lived and worked downtown for several years before moving to the burbs. My well-travelled kids and grandkids were born and live here and love it. I miss Boston and New England and all the wonders it offers because it’s a special place, and it is home, though every visit reminds me of compelling reasons why I left. To me the only truly awful thing about the LA area is its traffic. LA is the center of miles and miles of great beaches, and a short hop to real mountains (5, 8, even 12,000 feet high) and alpine mountain sports, lakes and resorts. The deserts are beautiful, its wildflowers breathtaking in Spring. It’s people are incredibly diverse and generally warm, welcoming. That’s important. Growing up in Boston we learned to treat people like jerks until they proved they weren’t. Out here you are treated as a potential friend until you are proven to be a jerk. I know, generalization, but this huge LA Region really is generally warm and open, which is nice. Be nice. The City of the Angels, this Ciudad del los Angeles, has so incredibly much to offer, from historic beauty and culture to lifestyle. The arts and sports flourish here in one of the world’s great entertainment capitols. The film industry is here. Museums of every type, and the majors are absolutely world class. Amazing music is everywhere from symphony to country, mariachi to rock n roll, chorales to choirs, chamber music to folk, every conceivable ethnic music from.Asia to Ethiopia, Ireland to Armenia. All played in a thousand small venues as well as Symphony Hall to the Performing Arts Center to the Hollywood Bowl and Greek Theater. Don’t forget the Rose Bowl. It is all here, every day. Dodgers, Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Galaxy in its spread out downtown. A short drive to the Angels, Ducks, Coachella, Stagecoach, a dozen regional symphonies, a hundred theater groups, wine countries, minor league teams, college sports, theater and music festivals. Exhausting. Food and Restaurants? Amazingly diverse. Highest quality Asian, Mexican, Latin American, European, Middle Eastern, Indian regional cuisines are virtually everywhere. Fresh local meats and fish. Fresh local veggies, herbs and fruits year round. It’s a foodies paradise. Hundreds of wineries, breweries, distillaries from Temecula to Santa Barbara. The same for heirloom grain bakeries, fair trade coffee shops and chocolatiers. From LA Harbor it is 22 miles to Santa Catalina or a pleasant sailboat ride to Long Beach or Newport Beach or even San Diego. Still great fishing. Forgot to mention the thousands, literally thousands, of sail and power boats kept in the marinas year round. Did I forget Hollywood, Universal Studios, nearby Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm, Magic Mountain for the kids, or Santa Monica Pier, Venice Beach. I can keep going. Summary: wonderful diversity, welcoming attitudes, amazing fresh foods year round for omnivores and vegans, a healthy, wholistic lifestyle, more music, theater, art, sports, creativity than I have found anywhere. Incredible beauty and topography. I actually did go skiing in the mountains and sailing on the ocean on the same day, once, just to see if it could be done. Could have gone to the symphony that nite but was worn out. Nice weather. Also, all types of places of worship are full, schools are good, community activism is intense, people are friendly and open to change. Elections are fair, civic awareness is high, communities are fully involved. How they manage all this in a regional polulation of 20,000,000 people is confounding. FYI the Dodgers, for all the snark about their fan base, has the highest attendance in baseball. They are fans. This despite a guy from Boston buying and screwing them up for years. LA has its problems, especially traffic, but LA is FAR from awful. Just the opposite.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 4, 2018 14:59:32 GMT -5
Houston is awful. It's like L.A. with really bad weather. I gotta respond to this. After being born and bred in Boston, the Cape, New England, and having lived in several awesome cities around the country, I wound up a transplant to soCal, in the LA area, and lived and worked downtown for several years before moving to the burbs. My well-travelled kids and grandkids were born and live here and love it. I miss Boston and New England and all the wonders it offers because it’s a special place, and it is home, though every visit reminds me of compelling reasons why I left. To me the only truly awful thing about the LA area is its traffic. LA is the center of miles and miles of great beaches, and a short hop to real mountains (5, 8, even 12,000 feet high) and alpine mountain sports, lakes and resorts. The deserts are beautiful, its wildflowers breathtaking in Spring. It’s people are incredibly diverse and generally warm, welcoming. That’s important. Growing up in Boston we learned to treat people like jerks until they proved they weren’t. Out here you are treated as a potential friend until you are proven to be a jerk. I know, generalization, but this huge LA Region really is generally warm and open, which is nice. Be nice. The City of the Angels, this Ciudad del los Angeles, has so incredibly much to offer, from historic beauty and culture to lifestyle. The arts and sports flourish here in one of the world’s great entertainment capitols. The film industry is here. Museums of every type, and the majors are absolutely world class. Amazing music is everywhere from symphony to country, mariachi to rock n roll, chorales to choirs, chamber music to folk, every conceivable ethnic music from.Asia to Ethiopia, Ireland to Armenia. All played in a thousand small venues as well as Symphony Hall to the Performing Arts Center to the Hollywood Bowl and Greek Theater. Don’t forget the Rose Bowl. It is all here, every day. Dodgers, Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Galaxy in its spread out downtown. A short drive to the Angels, Ducks, Coachella, Stagecoach, a dozen regional symphonies, a hundred theater groups, wine countries, minor league teams, college sports, theater and music festivals. Exhausting. Food and Restaurants? Amazingly diverse. Highest quality Asian, Mexican, Latin American, European, Middle Eastern, Indian regional cuisines are virtually everywhere. Fresh local meats and fish. Fresh local veggies, herbs and fruits year round. It’s a foodies paradise. Hundreds of wineries, breweries, distillaries from Temecula to Santa Barbara. The same for heirloom grain bakeries, fair trade coffee shops and chocolatiers. From LA Harbor it is 22 miles to Santa Catalina or a pleasant sailboat ride to Long Beach or Newport Beach or even San Diego. Still great fishing. Forgot to mention the thousands, literally thousands, of sail and power boats kept in the marinas year round. Did I forget Hollywood, Universal Studios, nearby Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm, Magic Mountain for the kids, or Santa Monica Pier, Venice Beach. I can keep going. Summary: wonderful diversity, welcoming attitudes, amazing fresh foods year round for omnivores and vegans, a healthy, wholistic lifestyle, more music, theater, art, sports, creativity than I have found anywhere. Incredible beauty and topography. I actually did go skiing in the mountains and sailing on the ocean on the same day, once, just to see if it could be done. Could have gone to the symphony that nite but was worn out. Nice weather. Also, all types of places of worship are full, schools are good, community activism is intense, people are friendly and open to change. Elections are fair, civic awareness is high, communities are fully involved. How they manage all this in a regional polulation of 20,000,000 people is confounding. FYI the Dodgers, for all the snark about their fan base, has the highest attendance in baseball. They are fans. This despite a guy from Boston buying and screwing them up for years. LA has its problems, especially traffic, but LA is FAR from awful. Just the opposite. I'm not even a big SoCal fan, but this is well said. Anyone harping on New England being so much better than Houston or LA or anywhere else is full of homerism. It's all individual preference. I love the northeast, but there are some pretty awesome places elsewhere. Some people love the heat and humidity of Houston. Obviously, there are 6 Mill+ people there. If it was that bad to everyone nobody would live there in these days. Not my cup of tea, but who knows what Eovaldi likes.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2018 16:40:07 GMT -5
The thing is, when you have $50+ million, everywhere is a great place to live.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 4, 2018 16:49:16 GMT -5
This is absolutely why you do all you can to sign the players you want BEFORE they go to market. It is entirely possible that Eovaldi and his agent would’ve jumpped at an offer of 4 yrs at $18M per year before the exclusive period ended. Now you’ll have to go more, and perhaps an extra year if you want to keep him.
Keep this in mind if they let Xander, Sale and Mookie “test the market.” There’s almost always one team that is willing to do crazy.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2018 16:52:11 GMT -5
This is absolutely why you do all you can to sign the players you want BEFORE they go to market. It is entirely possible that Eovaldi and his agent would’ve jumpped at an offer of 4 yrs at $18M per year before the exclusive period ended. Now you’ll have to go more, and perhaps an extra year if you want to keep him. Keep this in mind if they let Xander, Sale and Mookie “test the market.” There’s almost always one team that is willing to do crazy. Right, because the players don't realize this and don't have a choice if they're offered a deal. They have to sign it.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 4, 2018 17:18:08 GMT -5
This is absolutely why you do all you can to sign the players you want BEFORE they go to market. It is entirely possible that Eovaldi and his agent would’ve jumpped at an offer of 4 yrs at $18M per year before the exclusive period ended. Now you’ll have to go more, and perhaps an extra year if you want to keep him. Keep this in mind if they let Xander, Sale and Mookie “test the market.” There’s almost always one team that is willing to do crazy. Don't believe Evoaldi gets 18+ for 4 or more years if Corbin only got 140 for 6 years with a good track record. I could see 3 yrs @ 17 a yr or if he wants more years a 4 yr 55-60. If someone pays him 18+ for 4 years good luck seems like alot of money for no track record.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 4, 2018 17:39:37 GMT -5
This is absolutely why you do all you can to sign the players you want BEFORE they go to market. It is entirely possible that Eovaldi and his agent would’ve jumpped at an offer of 4 yrs at $18M per year before the exclusive period ended. Now you’ll have to go more, and perhaps an extra year if you want to keep him. Keep this in mind if they let Xander, Sale and Mookie “test the market.” There’s almost always one team that is willing to do crazy. Right, because the players don't realize this and don't have a choice if they're offered a deal. They have to sign it.Of course they do. But there's a difference between a player who sees a really great offer and says, "Sure I could probably get a little more, but I like this team and situation and that's GREAT money" vs. a guy who is going for the most money period. A lot of times this sales tactic has a time stamp on it - i.e. "That offer is good while you're in the room. Once you leave it's off the table." With the exclusive period it's more likely, "This offer is good til the end of the exclusive period." So very good money in the hand, vs. OK, I'll test the market and get back to you. Then you leave the player letting him know you still really want him, but that offer is no more. If the market dips below what your agent is telling you what you'll get in years/dollars - and see the last two years for many free agents for an object lesson in this - then you will not get that from us anymore, either, though we'll be "fair" within the market. It's something every player facing free agency - and every team - has to assess. If he is a high end guy and going for top dollar no matter what, the data say you're likely going to lose him - because there's almost always an owner who wants to make a "Splash" and be that much more crazy - or you'll probably make a big mistake in retaining him. There are tons of examples with this.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 4, 2018 18:28:41 GMT -5
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Post by jdb on Dec 4, 2018 21:43:24 GMT -5
The thing is, when you have $50+ million, everywhere is a great place to live. In the words of David Lee Roth Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 4, 2018 23:48:59 GMT -5
This is absolutely why you do all you can to sign the players you want BEFORE they go to market. It is entirely possible that Eovaldi and his agent would’ve jumpped at an offer of 4 yrs at $18M per year before the exclusive period ended. Now you’ll have to go more, and perhaps an extra year if you want to keep him. Keep this in mind if they let Xander, Sale and Mookie “test the market.” There’s almost always one team that is willing to do crazy. Yup. Bad business to wait on a deal with buzz/helium. It was pretty obvious Eovaldi would be sought after given his WS performance. Not only was it legendarily outstanding, but it was anti-Machado: pure selflessness.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 4, 2018 23:51:48 GMT -5
Right, because the players don't realize this and don't have a choice if they're offered a deal. They have to sign it. Of course they do. But there's a difference between a player who sees a really great offer and says, "Sure I could probably get a little more, but I like this team and situation and that's GREAT money" vs. a guy who is going for the most money period. A lot of times this sales tactic has a time stamp on it - i.e. "That offer is good while you're in the room. Once you leave it's off the table." With the exclusive period it's more likely, "This offer is good til the end of the exclusive period." So very good money in the hand, vs. OK, I'll test the market and get back to you. Then you leave the player letting him know you still really want him, but that offer is no more. If the market dips below what your agent is telling you what you'll get in years/dollars - and see the last two years for many free agents for an object lesson in this - then you will not get that from us anymore, either, though we'll be "fair" within the market. It's something every player facing free agency - and every team - has to assess. If he is a high end guy and going for top dollar no matter what, the data say you're likely going to lose him - because there's almost always an owner who wants to make a "Splash" and be that much more crazy - or you'll probably make a big mistake in retaining him. There are tons of examples with this. Remember the (pretty generous) extension Nomar didn’t sign?
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Post by telson13 on Dec 5, 2018 0:11:16 GMT -5
Don't believe Evoaldi gets 18+ for 4 or more years if Corbin only got 140 for 6 years with a good track record. I could see 3 yrs @ 17 a yr or if he wants more years a 4 yr 55-60. If someone pays him 18+ for 4 years good luck seems like alot of money for no track record. Corbin doesn't have a great track record. He was below replacement level in 2016, decent in 2017, and great last year. He also has a recent TJ surgery under his belt. He also has zero history of being the strikeout guy that he was in 2018. $23 AAV for 6 years is a lot of money for a very long time. Eovoldi is the only guy left on the market with any real possibility of being a front end starter, unless you like a very underwhelming Keuchel or a very old Happ. He's the same age as Corbin and has similar flees, but also has some pluses that Corbin doesn't have. The only thing that would surprise me about an Eovoldi contract is if he beats Corbin's contract. Well, Corbin’s accumulated 16 fWAR in 950 innings and has hit 200 innings twice. He also put up that 6.3 last year and missed bats because of a very simple, likely reproducible change: he started leaning *heaviliy* on his excellent slider, and started changing speeds with it. He’s also had a history of giving up fewer hits and of missing more bats than Eovaldi (11.6 fWAR in 850 innings and a LOT of missed time). But you’re right...Corbin got a huge deal on essentially two seasons, separated by 4 (of which he only pitched 2 1/2 at an ok level). I think the Nats overspent quite a bit, given his track record (good, not great), but they’re kind of in a pickle with Atl and Phi being young, pretty good, and having lots of cash to spend. He’s had velo inconsistency (bad news for the effectiveness of the slider when the FB drops). But he’s shown he can pitch at true ace level for a full season. I think he is more likely to be a 2/1a a la old school Hamels, but he moves the needle for them. Eovaldi is going to get a lot of money, because the market is hot and his Sox tenure was remarkable. I think you’re right tho that the difference in track record between them isn’t so big as Corbin’s one great year might make it appear, tho. Despite his playoff performance (and it’s one of the great stretches I’ve ever seen, on so many levels), he has yet to translate 101 into ace-level performance. He’s really a fascinating case. I hope he sticks around without breaking the bank.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 5, 2018 2:26:17 GMT -5
First off never said Corbin had a great track record I said good big difference. As for comparing Corbin and eovaldi there is no comparison. Corbin's best three years blow away eovaldis best year.
Corbins best three 3.41 era 208.1 inn 178 so. All-star 4.03 era 189.2 inn 178 so 3.15 era. 200 inn 246 so. All-star
Corbin at 23 aav in the Nl is a good deal it's the term that is if but if he gives you four decent years not great decent it is worth the deal. This all on top of the fact in his last three seasons he has drastically dropped his era every year increased his innings every year and increased his strikeouts in every year. The deal could be a steal if he produces like last season. As for eovaldi I'd like to see him come back but not at anything over 18 @ three years. The Red Sox can eat a deal if it doesn't work at those numbers with no issues. Realistically, you cannot depend on him to give you 150+ a year for the term of the deal and at 18 a year you hope his playoff numbers will make it worth it. The issue I have with eovaldi is the chances of him filling porcelllo shoes are slim and most won't care if he is gone after next season. Porcelllo has been Mr. consitant for the Red Sox averaging 200 inn a season at 20 a year. The better value would be signing porcelllo over eovaldi. But eovaldi has the upside I get it but him for a longterm deal has bust written all over it. I hope the sox do not give him four years even if that mean losing him to an AL contender. Just my opinion, if he signs with the sox and makes me look bad I will take the L to watch him pitch every 5th game. Side note met him in person nice guy humble too probably not used to maniac fans in Boston.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 5, 2018 2:48:30 GMT -5
Of course they do. But there's a difference between a player who sees a really great offer and says, "Sure I could probably get a little more, but I like this team and situation and that's GREAT money" vs. a guy who is going for the most money period. A lot of times this sales tactic has a time stamp on it - i.e. "That offer is good while you're in the room. Once you leave it's off the table." With the exclusive period it's more likely, "This offer is good til the end of the exclusive period." So very good money in the hand, vs. OK, I'll test the market and get back to you. Then you leave the player letting him know you still really want him, but that offer is no more. If the market dips below what your agent is telling you what you'll get in years/dollars - and see the last two years for many free agents for an object lesson in this - then you will not get that from us anymore, either, though we'll be "fair" within the market. It's something every player facing free agency - and every team - has to assess. If he is a high end guy and going for top dollar no matter what, the data say you're likely going to lose him - because there's almost always an owner who wants to make a "Splash" and be that much more crazy - or you'll probably make a big mistake in retaining him. There are tons of examples with this. Remember the (pretty generous) extension Nomar didn’t sign? Lou Merloni to this day swears Nomar was never offered the 4 year 60 million dollar extension to this day. The Sox put out that report he claims. He was Nomar's friend at the time and still is.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 5, 2018 4:29:35 GMT -5
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 5, 2018 7:24:17 GMT -5
Bottom line I believe Dave has a price he already expressed it to Evoladi camp. I would love to get him at 3/45, I would go 3/51. Top out at 17million. Anything more would be club controlled for example another year would be a option year controlled by the club. That is it. The Yankees already had him. Take him back go dump a ton of money why did Corbin fall thru if he loved the Yankees so much.
I believe in Dave if he doesn’t get the help now then at the deadline. Go focus on Kelly or the kid from Washington try to nail down the closer and one back end piece. At least lock down the rest of the bullpen. Worst case scenario get one or two guys who slipped thru the cracks. One of them being Pomerez low money. Someone else also. Remember we are not desperate for pitching we are looking for a fourth or fifth starter to help out. Evoladi was great because of the flexibility. But I think when he did that at the World Series you had to think the price went up. We will see. Yankees might want to drive up the price too. Randy Levine can not stop thinking about the Red Sox instead of just building his team. I personally think the blue chips are gone in that system. They might have a couple of kids but don’t kid yourself what ever there selling the minor league doesn’t have anything either.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 5, 2018 8:54:26 GMT -5
That’s pretty speculative by Sherman. A lotta “seems like” rather than any true declarative statements. Could also be smoke by Cashman through a mouthpiece, which we’ve seen repeately over the years.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 5, 2018 9:16:00 GMT -5
I saw someplace in twitter that the rumored Yankee offer was 5/100 and Phils offer 5/slightly more. That's a considerable difference besides just the years.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 5, 2018 17:30:42 GMT -5
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 5, 2018 17:58:39 GMT -5
Houston is awful. It's like L.A. with really bad weather. I gotta respond to this. After being born and bred in Boston, the Cape, New England, and having lived in several awesome cities around the country, I wound up a transplant to soCal, in the LA area, and lived and worked downtown for several years before moving to the burbs. My well-travelled kids and grandkids were born and live here and love it. I miss Boston and New England and all the wonders it offers because it’s a special place, and it is home, though every visit reminds me of compelling reasons why I left. To me the only truly awful thing about the LA area is its traffic. LA is the center of miles and miles of great beaches, and a short hop to real mountains (5, 8, even 12,000 feet high) and alpine mountain sports, lakes and resorts. The deserts are beautiful, its wildflowers breathtaking in Spring. It’s people are incredibly diverse and generally warm, welcoming. That’s important. Growing up in Boston we learned to treat people like jerks until they proved they weren’t. Out here you are treated as a potential friend until you are proven to be a jerk. I know, generalization, but this huge LA Region really is generally warm and open, which is nice. Be nice. The City of the Angels, this Ciudad del los Angeles, has so incredibly much to offer, from historic beauty and culture to lifestyle. The arts and sports flourish here in one of the world’s great entertainment capitols. The film industry is here. Museums of every type, and the majors are absolutely world class. Amazing music is everywhere from symphony to country, mariachi to rock n roll, chorales to choirs, chamber music to folk, every conceivable ethnic music from.Asia to Ethiopia, Ireland to Armenia. All played in a thousand small venues as well as Symphony Hall to the Performing Arts Center to the Hollywood Bowl and Greek Theater. Don’t forget the Rose Bowl. It is all here, every day. Dodgers, Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Galaxy in its spread out downtown. A short drive to the Angels, Ducks, Coachella, Stagecoach, a dozen regional symphonies, a hundred theater groups, wine countries, minor league teams, college sports, theater and music festivals. Exhausting. Food and Restaurants? Amazingly diverse. Highest quality Asian, Mexican, Latin American, European, Middle Eastern, Indian regional cuisines are virtually everywhere. Fresh local meats and fish. Fresh local veggies, herbs and fruits year round. It’s a foodies paradise. Hundreds of wineries, breweries, distillaries from Temecula to Santa Barbara. The same for heirloom grain bakeries, fair trade coffee shops and chocolatiers. From LA Harbor it is 22 miles to Santa Catalina or a pleasant sailboat ride to Long Beach or Newport Beach or even San Diego. Still great fishing. Forgot to mention the thousands, literally thousands, of sail and power boats kept in the marinas year round. Did I forget Hollywood, Universal Studios, nearby Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm, Magic Mountain for the kids, or Santa Monica Pier, Venice Beach. I can keep going. Summary: wonderful diversity, welcoming attitudes, amazing fresh foods year round for omnivores and vegans, a healthy, wholistic lifestyle, more music, theater, art, sports, creativity than I have found anywhere. Incredible beauty and topography. I actually did go skiing in the mountains and sailing on the ocean on the same day, once, just to see if it could be done. Could have gone to the symphony that nite but was worn out. Nice weather. Also, all types of places of worship are full, schools are good, community activism is intense, people are friendly and open to change. Elections are fair, civic awareness is high, communities are fully involved. How they manage all this in a regional polulation of 20,000,000 people is confounding. FYI the Dodgers, for all the snark about their fan base, has the highest attendance in baseball. They are fans. This despite a guy from Boston buying and screwing them up for years. LA has its problems, especially traffic, but LA is FAR from awful. Just the opposite. I'm just up the coast (would never trade it for LA) and completely agree that very few people would consider Boston over any of the California teams based on non-sports factors. Boston is better for education, hospitals and sports, but coastal California has Boston beat on just about everything else; as you articulated well. I miss the snow, the leaves and the seasons. I don't miss the ice scraping, the raking and the humidity. Better lifestyle to live here and visit there.
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Post by Canseco on Dec 5, 2018 18:04:32 GMT -5
Yeah, but will California be inhabitable in a decade or two? Call me crazy, but fresh water is sort of a big deal.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 5, 2018 19:07:41 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 5, 2018 19:10:17 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 5, 2018 19:18:54 GMT -5
This needs to happen. Most important guy the Sox sign this offseason. They know it, we know it. The rest is gravy. Shows that the Sox are prepared to spend whatever it takes to win next year at the very least.
The payroll flexibility beyond the offseason might be non existent, but it'll be worth it.
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