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Post by ryan24 on Aug 2, 2019 6:04:55 GMT -5
I think that part of the discussion on extending the core becomes who is the core? Mookie, Benny, and Devers for sure. Where do CV and JBJ fit into the model? Where is the pitching? Is Erod part of the core? Is JDM part of the core? If not, do you trade him to provide money for the core? Sale appears, with the 5 yr commitment the sox made, to be part of the core. Do you keep Price as well? Is he part of the core? Maybe , you trade price and pay half of his salary and use the extra 15 to pay for the core. The biggest need in the organization is young power starting pitching. But, that has been the need forever. That's why we are paying price and sale the big bucks. We really do not know what Dave and John are thinking so NOTHING would surprise me come this winter and the next year or so. BUT, I do believe this, Dave is not going to give anyone away for free. And what ever he trades away he will get something back to hopefully replace it.
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 2, 2019 6:11:23 GMT -5
I am not saying I want to tear the team down and not have them become a contender again for a while. I am assuming that Dave will extend people and move people with the goal of being a WS contending type team every year. Lots of moving parts and lots of options. Hopefully he is able to keep all our favorite players and win another WS soon, or at least be close.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 9, 2019 18:31:02 GMT -5
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 9, 2019 18:44:44 GMT -5
So according to Morosi the braves will extend him after trading for him? So the Boston Red Sox can't extend him but the braves can?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 9, 2019 18:59:45 GMT -5
So according to Morosi the braves will extend him after trading for him? So the Boston Red Sox can't extend him but the braves can? The Braves have- - The proximity to Mookie Betts' home in Tennessee - The payroll flexibility and cash to get a extension done. The Red Sox do not have the payroll flexibility. - They have the talent to get a trade done. I listed the White Sox and Braves as the two most likeliest destinations for Betts earlier this off-season. It was brushed off on here.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 9, 2019 19:06:01 GMT -5
If the Red Sox trade Mookie instead of giving the man what he is worth why even bother? You get a once in a generational player on your team and u trade him? I don’t see it I still am cautiously optimistic they resign him. If they do trade him there will be no defending that ever!! Just my opinion Add: are you redsoxstats on Twitter??
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Aug 9, 2019 19:25:38 GMT -5
If the Red Sox trade Mookie instead of giving the man what he is worth why even bother? You get a once in a generational player on your team and u trade him? I don’t see it I still am cautiously optimistic they resign him. If they do trade him there will be no defending that ever!! Just my opinion It depends on the return, as always. I'm not actively shopping him if I'm the Red Sox. But if somebody offers me an elite package for him, I'd have to at least consider it. I don't believe in 'untouchable'. Everybody has a price... even if that price is something you don't reasonably expect anybody to pay.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Aug 9, 2019 19:26:00 GMT -5
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 9, 2019 19:40:46 GMT -5
Your my favorite follow on Twitter by a lot
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Post by RedSoxStats on Aug 9, 2019 19:43:34 GMT -5
Your my favorite follow on Twitter by a lot I appreciate it, thanks.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 9, 2019 19:49:42 GMT -5
If the Sox trade Mookie, expect a Chris Sale type of return. The Sox *should* get that too.
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Post by ortiz34 on Aug 9, 2019 20:49:23 GMT -5
Well if we trade Mookie to the Braves I want Waters and Anderson as the main pieces
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 9, 2019 22:07:11 GMT -5
Trading Mookie Betts would be the single most unbelievably stupid thing I've seen the Red Sox doing in the Henry era.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 9, 2019 22:49:55 GMT -5
Well if we trade Mookie to the Braves I want Waters and Anderson as the main pieces I would ask for Anderson, Waters, and Pache. They want Mookie, okay, but it's going to hurt.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 10, 2019 6:57:16 GMT -5
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Post by coachmac on Aug 10, 2019 7:51:26 GMT -5
Trading Mookie Betts would be the single most unbelievably stupid thing I've seen the Red Sox doing in the Henry era. To be clear I hate the idea of Mookie playing for some other team. However, he has to want to stay in Boston.If it's clear he isnt signing it would be disastrous to the future of the team to let him walk for a 4th Round draft pick. The team should hand him a contract with 8 years and leave the $$$ blank. Tell to fill in the blanks. If they can't get it done then hopefully you get a boatload of talent in exchange.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 10, 2019 7:57:52 GMT -5
Trading Mookie Betts would be the single most unbelievably stupid thing I've seen the Red Sox doing in the Henry era. To be clear I hate the idea of Mookie playing for some other team. However, he has to want to stay in Boston.If it's clear he isnt signing it would be disastrous to the future of the team to let him walk for a 4th Round draft pick. The team should hand him a contract with 8 years and leave the $$$ blank. Tell to fill in the blanks. If they can't get it done then hopefully you get a boatload of talent in exchange. If 8 years is their top offer, he will wind up elsewhere. I know you said leave the $$$ blank, but what if Mookie chose $50 million/year? They can't tie up that much in one player annually - so I don't think that's an option. Realistically he'll get 10 plus years. I think Harper is in Philly until he's 39 and I think Trout got an extension that put him into his late 30s. 8 years old gets Mookie to 35, and I'm sure Mookie can top that. I think the Sox need to be prepared to do 11 years $360 plus million to bring back Mookie. If they don't somebody else will. He might even get 12 years with somebody else. They need to fully commit to Mookie if they're going to sign him. He's made that pretty clear - and if the Sox throw that offer out there and the others don't blow it away - they'll probably hang onto Mookie. I don't know that the Sox would be willing to go that far with Mookie however. I think they could sign him. But that's a different question than will they sign him?
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 10, 2019 9:09:36 GMT -5
So according to Morosi the braves will extend him after trading for him? So the Boston Red Sox can't extend him but the braves can? The Braves have- - The proximity to Mookie Betts' home in Tennessee - The payroll flexibility and cash to get a extension done. The Red Sox do not have the payroll flexibility. - They have the talent to get a trade done. I listed the White Sox and Braves as the two most likeliest destinations for Betts earlier this off-season. It was brushed off on here. I do not think the sox WANT to trade Mookie. The question becomes. Do Dave and John really truly think they can sign Mookie? I think they have placed a value on signing Mookie. Only so many years or so much per year. So, I would say they will take a run at it and see how far apart they are .If they feel the gap is too big then they will put him on the trade market. The idea being, they will at least get something back instead of 4th round draft pick. Or whatever round it is. Dave will not give him away. Yes Pedro is correct the white sox and the braves have lots of great looking prospects to choose from. And yes if the trade goes thru we will bitch that Dave did not get enough. I think pedro is also right that the right return would be for the braves their young outfielder and a couple of their young pitchers. Will trading him hurt next year? YES. But, something is better than nothing. It is not about money either. The sox have plenty. It is about the penalties that the organization will incur by banging up against the big cap number. The loss of draft picks and international pool money will hurt the team big time for many years. Not paying cash penalties. I do not blame Mookie either, if he thinks he is going to get either extra years or a pile load more money per year. He deserves his share of the profits. This will be an interesting winter.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 10, 2019 9:50:03 GMT -5
Moving Betts may allow Boston to compete while doing a quick turn around rebuild. that's the positive. Acquire several super high end prospects and not have to pay out what the team can just not afford with multiple high value salaries already on the books which cannot be moved and a couple more players the team in all liklihood could not sign to decent terms if Betts was signed and possibly could be if he is moved in Devers and Benintendi, both totaling less than what any deal Betts would want.
Loving a ballplayer on the team is sometimes not enough. it's got to come down to the fact the team just cannot afford to pay for that player. Had the team not signed Price several years back? Sure, possibly so, but cannot go on hindsight.
Clean out several others also as far as am concerned.. JBJ and his to be nearly 10m in 2020. Johnson his walking papers for good. This thing can be done.
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Post by coachmac on Aug 10, 2019 10:06:01 GMT -5
To be clear I hate the idea of Mookie playing for some other team. However, he has to want to stay in Boston.If it's clear he isnt signing it would be disastrous to the future of the team to let him walk for a 4th Round draft pick. The team should hand him a contract with 8 years and leave the $$$ blank. Tell to fill in the blanks. If they can't get it done then hopefully you get a boatload of talent in exchange. If 8 years is their top offer, he will wind up elsewhere. I know you said leave the $$$ blank, but what if Mookie chose $50 million/year? They can't tie up that much in one player annually - so I don't think that's an option. Realistically he'll get 10 plus years. I think Harper is in Philly until he's 39 and I think Trout got an extension that put him into his late 30s. 8 years old gets Mookie to 35, and I'm sure Mookie can top that. I think the Sox need to be prepared to do 11 years $360 plus million to bring back Mookie. If they don't somebody else will. He might even get 12 years with somebody else. They need to fully commit to Mookie if they're going to sign him. He's made that pretty clear - and if the Sox throw that offer out there and the others don't blow it away - they'll probably hang onto Mookie. I don't know that the Sox would be willing to go that far with Mookie however. I think they could sign him. But that's a different question than will they sign him? The reason I added if they cant get it done, if Mookie and his reps come back and ask for unreasonable $$$ or more years than they are comfortable then trade him. For instance Harper wanted his record total but was willing to spread it out to make the AAV more palatable. I chose 8 years bc thats what Arenado,a as a comparable talent and about the same age, agreed to with the Rockies. He did that in large part because he wanted to stay.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 10, 2019 10:08:14 GMT -5
This is such a frustrating topic because Mookie has been so damn cryptic so everyone is just trying to read his mind and it's ridiculous to believe that anyone can do that with any certainty.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 10, 2019 11:33:47 GMT -5
This is such a frustrating topic because Mookie has been so damn cryptic so everyone is just trying to read his mind and it's ridiculous to believe that anyone can do that with any certainty. It may not be accurate, but - I am guessing the front office knows a bit more about Mookie's intentions than what we're hearing him say and reading about in the papers. I'm guessing that during negotiations, he and his agent have had to provide some insights. Maybe it's no way we're signing here until we test FA. Maybe it's we need to get to the last year to get a better idea of his market value. Maybe it's we need to see these numbers of years or this AAV, or this total dollar amount. Maybe he's indicated an open to resigning after testing FA, but has also indicated a preference to sign somewhere closer to his home town? Who knows. And maybe the Sox don't have too much more info, but I am guessing they know more (or will this offseason) than we know. That knowledge may drive their decision.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 10, 2019 11:44:40 GMT -5
This is such a frustrating topic because Mookie has been so damn cryptic so everyone is just trying to read his mind and it's ridiculous to believe that anyone can do that with any certainty. It may not be accurate, but - I am guessing the front office knows a bit more about Mookie's intentions than what we're hearing him say and reading about in the papers. I'm guessing that during negotiations, he and his agent have had to provide some insights. Maybe it's no way we're signing here until we test FA. Maybe it's we need to get to the last year to get a better idea of his market value. Maybe it's we need to see these numbers of years or this AAV, or this total dollar amount. Maybe he's indicated an open to resigning after testing FA, but has also indicated a preference to sign somewhere closer to his home town? Who knows. And maybe the Sox don't have too much more info, but I am guessing they know more (or will this offseason) than we know. That knowledge may drive their decision. Yeah I understand all of that, but all any fan is doing now is speculating on what's he's thinking and then making decisions on what the Red Sox should do. If there's no way in hell he ever resigns, then maybe you do trade him. But that's assuming that there's no way in hell he ever resigns which no one can possibly know other than Mookie and maybe the Red Sox. I find that unlikely, but again, I'm just taking wild guesses, which is all anyone else is doing. How can this even be debated?
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 10, 2019 11:53:47 GMT -5
It may not be accurate, but - I am guessing the front office knows a bit more about Mookie's intentions than what we're hearing him say and reading about in the papers. I'm guessing that during negotiations, he and his agent have had to provide some insights. Maybe it's no way we're signing here until we test FA. Maybe it's we need to get to the last year to get a better idea of his market value. Maybe it's we need to see these numbers of years or this AAV, or this total dollar amount. Maybe he's indicated an open to resigning after testing FA, but has also indicated a preference to sign somewhere closer to his home town? Who knows. And maybe the Sox don't have too much more info, but I am guessing they know more (or will this offseason) than we know. That knowledge may drive their decision. Yeah I understand all of that, but all any fan is doing now is speculating on what's he's thinking and then making decisions on what the Red Sox should do. If there's no way in hell he ever resigns, then maybe you do trade him. But that's assuming that there's no way in hell he ever resigns which no one can possibly know other than Mookie and maybe the Red Sox. I find that unlikely, but again, I'm just taking wild guesses, which is all anyone else is doing. How can this even be debated? I wasn't disagreeing with you
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Post by telson13 on Aug 10, 2019 13:26:58 GMT -5
Well if we trade Mookie to the Braves I want Waters and Anderson as the main pieces I would ask for Anderson, Waters, and Pache. They want Mookie, okay, but it's going to hurt. Problem with Atlanta is they have no real high-end talent. Lots of very good, probably marginally above-average MLBers, but not like Houston with Whitley-Tucker. Of course, for just one year, that may be all the Sox can get. Sucks. Mookie leaving will be the worst thing to happen to the franchise in my lifetime, or at least since Bagwell-Andersen.
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