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4/9-4/11 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Apr 9, 2019 17:37:08 GMT -5
Nobody is screaming for Cora’s head. They’re just (correctly) criticizing him for a spring training plan that has completely backfired.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 9, 2019 17:39:53 GMT -5
I don't GAF. This is not those teams. The entire team didn't become terrible baseball players in one offseason.
I swear Boston fans have become so entitled.You left out the part about people screaming for Cora's head already. I am pretty sure he didnt forget how to manage over the winter either. I have not seen him step in the batters box or on the mound so far this season so I dont think he is the problem. I also left out the part about how that includes all teams including all of the terrible ones that are likely to go 3-9 and not ever have a chance at making the playoffs. A more balanced and fair analysis would be to find the percentage of playoff teams that had a 3-9 stretch at any point of a season.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2019 18:21:53 GMT -5
You left out the part about people screaming for Cora's head already. I am pretty sure he didnt forget how to manage over the winter either. I have not seen him step in the batters box or on the mound so far this season so I dont think he is the problem. I also left out the part about how that includes all teams including all of the terrible ones that are likely to go 3-9 and not ever have a chance at making the playoffs. A more balanced and fair analysis would be to find the percentage of playoff teams that had a 3-9 stretch at any point of a season. I believe that in the last 10 years only 4 of the 40 LCS teams finished April more than 1 game under .500 so hopefully they get their heads out of their asses soon.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 9, 2019 18:54:15 GMT -5
I mean, obviously this team is much better than this. But also, it's a very slow start and the Yankees (when not injured) and Rays appear to be very good teams. The Rays were a 90 win team and got better. The Yankees are beat up right now but got better in the off season too. It’s early but this is a crap start.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Apr 9, 2019 19:04:31 GMT -5
I mean, obviously this team is much better than this. But also, it's a very slow start and the Yankees (when not injured) and Rays appear to be very good teams. The Rays were a 90 win team and got better. The Yankees are beat up right now but got better in the off season too. It’s early but this is a crap start. One of the huge positives of the start last year was banking wins to take the pressure to perform at a high level off late in the regular season. At this rate, the Red Sox are going to have to have a torrid August and September to contend.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 9, 2019 19:11:27 GMT -5
Nobody is screaming for Cora’s head. They’re just (correctly) criticizing him for a spring training plan that has completely backfired. I gotta believe the spring plan was a group decision directed by front office with input from Cora, coaches, medical/trainers and even analytics folks.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 9, 2019 19:21:13 GMT -5
There's a saying that you can't win a division in April, but you can certainly lose a division in April. The Sox will be testing this unless they comeback here. I remember saying this more than a few times in April of 2012 here and taking a lot of heat for it. I’m not saying this is a 2012 team, but their performance right now is not that different from that steaming pile. I’ve also hated hearing over the years during the spring “we’re doing this for October” like the playoffs are a foregone conclusion. The other teams are likely to have a dip as well, but thie Sox still will have to work hard to catch them. The starters have looked awful and the team is just not playing well at all so far (duh).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 9, 2019 19:23:30 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 9, 2019 19:33:43 GMT -5
Nobody is screaming for Cora’s head. They’re just (correctly) criticizing him for a spring training plan that has completely backfired. I gotta believe the spring plan was a group decision directed by front office with input from Cora, coaches, medical/trainers and even analytics folks. Yes. I have said it before, if this decision is made with the health of the players in mind, it is hard to criticize as being incorrect. It may be a wrong decision, as there are likely other ways to address the playoff workload, but they (and we) should care that these guys aren't throwing away their careers because we want to win games in April or in 2019. They gave great effort for that wonderful playoff run.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 9, 2019 19:36:58 GMT -5
There's a saying that you can't win a division in April, but you can certainly lose a division in April. The Sox will be testing this unless they comeback here. I remember saying this more than a few times in April of 2012 here and taking a lot of heat for it. Yeap. Sensitive people need to get a grip here. Nothing wrong with what I said at any point today. Hopefully you and others won't get so much heat because of a simple point.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 9, 2019 19:57:56 GMT -5
I gotta believe the spring plan was a group decision directed by front office with input from Cora, coaches, medical/trainers and even analytics folks. Yes. I have said it before, if this decision is made with the health of the players in mind, it is hard to criticize as being incorrect. It may be a wrong decision, as there are likely other ways to address the playoff workload, but they (and we) should care that these guys aren't throwing away their careers because we want to win games in April or in 2019. They gave great effort for that wonderful playoff run. Yeap wrong decision, but for the right reasons. That's why I don't care if they make the playoffs this year.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 9, 2019 21:04:40 GMT -5
Yes. I have said it before, if this decision is made with the health of the players in mind, it is hard to criticize as being incorrect. It may be a wrong decision, as there are likely other ways to address the playoff workload, but they (and we) should care that these guys aren't throwing away their careers because we want to win games in April or in 2019. They gave great effort for that wonderful playoff run. Yeap wrong decision, but for the right reasons. That's why I don't care if they make the playoffs this year. I care if they miss the playoffs this year. It would be quite embarrassing going from 119 wins to no October baseball. The silver lining is if the Sox bring back JD Martinez, this team should largely be intact for another shot in 2020 as Sale and Bogaerts are coming back - and if JDM is back and the big if - if Mookie can be re-signed then the team should be pretty competitive beyond 2020 meaning that the window hasn't really shut. The question then will be did the Red Sox do a good job of supplementing the core with guys who can replace the Craig Kimbrels, Rick Porcellos, and JBJs of the world? But that's a future thing. For 2019, the Red Sox are playing like garbage right now. This isn't luck. They're getting their butts kicked, trail in most of the games most of the time and when they do get leads, they're short-lived. They haven't dominated anybody this season at all but have gotten their butts kicked in a few games. I don't think they take your Red Sox nation fan club card away if you're honest and say that this team is playing horrible baseball, because they are. You'd have to be a complete homer not to acknowledge this. This isn't BABIP luck or whatever nonsense. It's simply being outplayed in just about every facet of the game. I know they held back their starters, but it shouldn't be this bad. Maybe they should have found a better way to do things - perhaps stagger the breaks instead of everybody getting March off and then using April as spring training. I mean, that 17-2 start last year - that was a springboard for the Red Sox. You can see them developing a ton of confidence, believing they could find a way to win every night. This year, they don't have the look of a team that has the "it" factor. I still think there's too much talent for the Sox to spend a huge chunk of the season trying to get over .500 - so I do think they'll get straightened out at some point, but by putting themselves in a hole that puts pressure on things breaking right for them - a badly timed key injury could really set them back, the bullpen if it starts to struggle - they could see those 1 run games that broke for them last year break against them. If they were in a weak division or league, not a big issue, but the league is so top-heavy that you do have those 3 other teams they're competing against to deal with and they're spotting those teams sizable leads. Having to play from behind and be perfect as the season goes on is a hard way to do things. It can work. The team is capable of getting hot at the right time, putting on a big burst, and be trouble in the post-season. First things first - Chris Sale has to figure out what the hell is going on. They need him to be their ace. He looks lost out there. Until he gets straightened out, they're going to have a tough time of things.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 9, 2019 21:13:50 GMT -5
We've discussed - everyone is discussing - the starting pitching. It is brutal right now...but won't be all season. Yet, until each starter can get a grip (no pun intended), leads will get blown and frustration will rise - and then the effective bullpen will start to get overcooked.
But - the offense. Mookie - not locked in at all, body language not great at the plate, watching strikes go by. Yes, the odd home run - but not delivering consistently in the big spots. Benni - also just looks really off, not really driving the ball.
JD, Xander, Raffi and Mitch are actually doing well enough.
Vazquez - there must be a better hitter in there, but we are not seeing it consistently enough
JBJ is back to being a hot mess. The radio guys said today he is doing a toe kick again - something he was not doing when he was hitting in spring training. We know he CAN hit, but it is a mystery why he seems to forget what leads to success - going with the pitch, shortening his swing, seeing the pitches.
Swihart - would rather see him playing more.
Pearce, Pedey, Brock - way too small sample sizes
Nunez....please, make him go away.
Rallies are being killed - it is hard to remember a true rally, men on base not getting ended by harmless pop ups or GIDP. Nunez has killed them - and Brock - Pedey today - JBJ a LOT - Vazquez - even Benni and Mookie. They are sharing the funk around - whether the starters or the offense, this stink has to go away soon.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 9, 2019 22:12:26 GMT -5
The idea that we need to start writing the Red Sox out of the playoffs after 12 games is completely bizarre. Fangraphs gives them a 63% chance of making the playoffs, and a 15% chance of winning the division - still better than the Rays' chances. Do you disagree with those odds? Then show your work.
And sure, only 5% of teams that started the season 3-9 made the playoffs. Cuz most teams that start 3-9 suck. Does anyone really think this team - which is basically the same group as it was last year - sucks?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 9, 2019 22:37:53 GMT -5
The idea that we need to start writing the Red Sox out of the playoffs after 12 games is completely bizarre. Fangraphs gives them a 63% chance of making the playoffs, and a 15% chance of winning the division - still better than the Rays' chances. Do you disagree with those odds? Then show your work. And sure, only 5% of teams that started the season 3-9 made the playoffs. Cuz most teams that start 3-9 suck. Does anyone really think this team - which is basically the same group as it was last year - sucks? I don't think anyone has written off anything yet. Everyone has said they need to turn it like now if they want better odds of winning anything. I have myself said that "the Sox are about to test the theory of winning a division after having a horrible start." I also said that "The Sox are 1 more bad week of baseball of only maybe having wildcard only hopes." Which also means that they are one great week away from also being back in this thing before the words get twisted like normal around here. Add- The Rays are here to stay. Don't know why Fangraphs is down on their chances in the division. Their young arms are electric and they have help coming with 2 arms coming back from arm injuries.
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Post by libertine on Apr 9, 2019 23:05:49 GMT -5
Well it was a nice ring ceremony...
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Post by incandenza on Apr 9, 2019 23:08:55 GMT -5
The idea that we need to start writing the Red Sox out of the playoffs after 12 games is completely bizarre. Fangraphs gives them a 63% chance of making the playoffs, and a 15% chance of winning the division - still better than the Rays' chances. Do you disagree with those odds? Then show your work. And sure, only 5% of teams that started the season 3-9 made the playoffs. Cuz most teams that start 3-9 suck. Does anyone really think this team - which is basically the same group as it was last year - sucks? I don't think anyone has written off anything yet. Everyone has said they need to turn it like now if they want better odds of winning anything. I have myself said that "the Sox are about to test the theory of winning a division after having a horrible start." I also said that "The Sox are 1 more bad week of baseball of only maybe having wildcard only hopes." Which also means that they are one great week away from also being back in this thing before the words get twisted like normal around here. Add- The Rays are here to stay. Don't know why Fangraphs is down on their chances on the division. Their young arms are electric and they have help coming with 2 arms coming back from arm injuries. Okay, then I disagree with the statement that the Sox are only one week away from having wildcard only hopes. One week from now they will still have 144 games to go. I will not yet be willing to write off their chances of winning the division. Agree on the Rays though, actually. If I had to bet I might say we're more likely to finish ahead of the Yankees than the Rays.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 9, 2019 23:35:56 GMT -5
Incandenza, if the Sox go through another 1-5 disastrous stretch and fall 9 or 10 games back, then I would love to see the updated division odds. Would have to be in the single digits at that point. I hope no more of those stretches are happening this year.
The Sox would have to own the Rays lunch to make up for that.
As for the Yankees, they just lost Severino until July at the earliest. If I'm them, I push the panic button and sign Khechul. They probably won't though.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 10, 2019 1:39:29 GMT -5
Three guys who got rings who had to be the happiest: Austin Maddox, Brandon Phillips, and (I'm pretty sure) Marco Hernandez.
Phillips had an excellent career and had the one unforgettable moment for us at the end. The other two guys could have absolutely contributed and were never healthy enough.
I wonder if they'll have a ceremony in Pawtucket for Leon, Travis, Renda, and Poyner.
The one guy beside Kimbrel who was missing but not active elsewhere (Kinsler, Hanley, Pomeranz, Kelly, Scott, Beeks, and Haley and Cuevas in Korea) was the recently retired Dan Butler. Sort of two extremes there.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 10, 2019 7:57:13 GMT -5
Interesting piece from Eno Saris in The Athletic today about Sox starters. With regard to Sale, he says the drop in velo is troubling and he spends a little time on that, but regarding the others, it sounds like bad decision-making or feel for certain pitches: You could point to some changes in their arsenals. Rodríguez is throwing a new version of his breaking ball, which could be throwing him off. Nate Eovaldi broke out by throwing his cutter more often last year, and he’s throwing it less often this year. David Price is throwing his cutter less and his four-seam more for some reason. Rick Porcello is throwing his four-seam more than he’s ever thrown it.Full piece here, subscription required: theathletic.com/912565/2019/04/10/sarris-the-red-sox-arent-suffering-from-a-championship-hangover-so-what-is-ailing-boston/?source=dailyemail
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 10, 2019 8:29:18 GMT -5
Nobody is screaming for Cora’s head. They’re just (correctly) criticizing him for a spring training plan that has completely backfired. I gotta believe the spring plan was a group decision directed by front office with input from Cora, coaches, medical/trainers and even analytics folks. I tend to agree with you but Cora has been talking l about last year continuously since they got to Florida and continues to do so. His job is to have the team ready to play; honestly it’s really his main job. The analytics staff pretty much tells him what moves to make on a daily basis - sure he has to accept their input but beyond that he’s misty playing the script. Therefore a managers main value lies in having his team prepared and mentally on point. He’s failing hard right now. Listen, I realize that sounds harsh but it’s the truth. It also doesn’t mean he’s terrible; it just means he’s a young inexperienced manager that’s showing that he’s in a new situation and he hasn’t handled it well. The tell tale sign of who’s good and who’s not are those who adjust and learn. I’m confident Cora will; it’s just a matter of when and if it’s that easy to flip a switch in the middle of it. The 2018 team had a laser focus from day 1 of spring training; this team is 12 games into the regular season and we haven’t seen anything resembling that
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Post by manfred on Apr 10, 2019 8:57:35 GMT -5
We’re doomed!
(First post of the season, so I figured I’d go hot. I am actually still pretty optimistic.)
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Post by huskies15 on Apr 10, 2019 9:13:44 GMT -5
We're due for a starter (Velazquez excepted) to have a normal game. Just by variance we should have a game where a starter doesnt implode.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Apr 10, 2019 9:54:57 GMT -5
Interesting piece from Eno Saris in The Athletic today about Sox starters. With regard to Sale, he says the drop in velo is troubling and he spends a little time on that, but regarding the others, it sounds like bad decision-making or feel for certain pitches: You could point to some changes in their arsenals. Rodríguez is throwing a new version of his breaking ball, which could be throwing him off. Nate Eovaldi broke out by throwing his cutter more often last year, and he’s throwing it less often this year. David Price is throwing his cutter less and his four-seam more for some reason. Rick Porcello is throwing his four-seam more than he’s ever thrown it.Full piece here, subscription required: theathletic.com/912565/2019/04/10/sarris-the-red-sox-arent-suffering-from-a-championship-hangover-so-what-is-ailing-boston/?source=dailyemail All I'm hearing is free Sandy!
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 10, 2019 11:05:48 GMT -5
Interesting piece from Eno Saris in The Athletic today about Sox starters. With regard to Sale, he says the drop in velo is troubling and he spends a little time on that, but regarding the others, it sounds like bad decision-making or feel for certain pitches: You could point to some changes in their arsenals. Rodríguez is throwing a new version of his breaking ball, which could be throwing him off. Nate Eovaldi broke out by throwing his cutter more often last year, and he’s throwing it less often this year. David Price is throwing his cutter less and his four-seam more for some reason. Rick Porcello is throwing his four-seam more than he’s ever thrown it.Full piece here, subscription required: theathletic.com/912565/2019/04/10/sarris-the-red-sox-arent-suffering-from-a-championship-hangover-so-what-is-ailing-boston/?source=dailyemail All I'm hearing is free Sandy! Catcher pitch-calling is the myth that will not die.
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