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5/14-5/15 Red Sox vs. Rockies Series Thread
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Post by hammerhead on May 15, 2019 3:16:42 GMT -5
What ever happened to that guy we signed off the White Sox. Putnum or something like that? Wasn't he supposed to have a good track record of major League succeeds? I gather he's hurt, but was it season ending? You never hear about him
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 15, 2019 5:02:08 GMT -5
I just don't know how people think the exact same thing is going to happen this year in the playoffs and pointing to that as a proven model to win. The Sox were the best team last year, but they were still fortunate with even that bullpen. This year's bullpen has even less talent than that one. Barnes so far has been as good as Kimbrel. Walden has been nearly as good as Barnes was last year. Workman’s been as good as Brasier was. Maybe there’s less *depth*, but at the top they’re largely unchanged. I’m certainly not saying they shouldn’t put a bunch of feelers out on arms, but I’d prefer several smaller moves for arb dumps or tweeners who are early in their careers and are struggling as back-end starters. I think the volume approach at low cost is the way to go. They have a blueprint for success that way. They also have more minor league depth this year. The data say their bullpen has been solid. They got by last year with one of their main guys (Kelly) awful for three months. They have better options than making a talent-costly move for an expensive high-profile arm. I just don't believe in the guys the same way you do Telson. Workman was pretty lucky with that streak of not giving up a base hit in that long stretch. Walden has been incredible so far, but no track record there. The only guy I believe in out of this group is Barnes because he's had a track record of being dominant for 2 years now. It's like saying you believed that Hembree was a brand new pitcher when he didn't give up a run last year in June or whatever month it was. It's also saying that you believed in Joe Kelly's good start last year. I didn't at the time even though the message board believed the changes were real. To Don's point, there are 4 interesting arms in the system at the moment. Maybe 5 if you include Josh Taylor in that group. 2 of these guys are currently starting and you don't know how they'll handle high leverage to begin with in Hernandez and Houck. Just a huge gamble to go all in with just kids. It could pay off, I don't see Dombrowski gambling with just kids though. I hope your right. They can probably patch this thing up until July, it'll be interesting to see what the roster looks like after July.
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Post by huskies15 on May 15, 2019 8:41:49 GMT -5
In all honesty, the Red Sox could use a lefty in the bullpen. That Blackmon AB was a prime spot for a matchup lefty and the Red Sox just don't have the option. Eck even said this during that at bat.
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 15, 2019 11:22:42 GMT -5
What ever happened to that guy we signed off the White Sox. Putnum or something like that? Wasn't he supposed to have a good track record of major League succeeds? I gather he's hurt, but was it season ending? You never hear about him Putnam was reassigned to minor league camp during ST and has not appeared on any roster. He had TJ surgery in 2017, didn't pitch last year and may not be ready yet. He was a pretty decent RP with Chicago.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 15, 2019 12:06:35 GMT -5
In all honesty, the Red Sox could use a lefty in the bullpen. That Blackmon AB was a prime spot for a matchup lefty and the Red Sox just don't have the option. Eck even said this during that at bat. If the Sox believed that, Poyner would be on the roster. The Sox have righties that get lefties out with their curveball.
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Post by hammerhead on May 15, 2019 12:33:52 GMT -5
What ever happened to that guy we signed off the White Sox. Putnum or something like that? Wasn't he supposed to have a good track record of major League succeeds? I gather he's hurt, but was it season ending? You never hear about him Putnam was reassigned to minor league camp during ST and has not appeared on any roster. He had TJ surgery in 2017, didn't pitch last year and may not be ready yet. He was a pretty decent RP with Chicago. Yeah I just read some articles from the spring. He said he felt great (100% in his own words). He was pitching. Then he had a hamstring pull... Now I'm not sure what's going on. His hamstring should be healed up by now... Another guy is Carson Smith, or even Wright. You'd think at least one of these guys should be able to contribute if they ever get healthy. Seems like the bullpen plan was to throw a lot of junk at the wall and see what sticks. It would be nice to have a solid major leaguer with big league pedigree instead of all these lottery ticket reclamation projects.
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Post by jimed14 on May 15, 2019 14:05:35 GMT -5
So to be clear: you're saying the performance of the bullpen has been fine, you just don't believe they'll be able to keep it up? Yes it has been fine, but talent is going to catch up to them. My problem is people pointing to last year like that's a given. My other problem is finding a high leverage arm outside of Barnes and maybe Walden. This problem is going to have to resolve itself from prospects from within or prospects are getting traded by July in a already thin farm system. People are crazy if they think Workman is going to be the third highest leverage arm come September. Especially when you ignore how good they are when they are and continue to expect them to never give up a run all year unless the game is already decided. How long have you had to wait to start bitching again? It's been weeks.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on May 15, 2019 15:20:17 GMT -5
Bullpen change is inevitable and happens all year every year. The Sox IL’s Johnson, Wright, C. Smith plus Mejia and Putnam all have pretty good MLB pedigrees. Taylor, Lakins, Feltman, Darwinzon, Shawaryn, Houck and others will all be available and ready this season. We will know soon whether or not Thornburg, Brewer, Weber are keepers. I am hoping DDo will not need to make a trade.
Meanwhile this Pen has been and continues to be among the AL’s best, keeping the team in games even as SP and offense have struggled to get their acts together.
I just watched You Tube’s condensed version of the 2018 season and post season. Even knowing what happened, so many of Kimbrel’s appearances still had me yelling at the TV and wondering where the nitro pills are. Thank you Messrs Barnes, Workman, Walden, Weber for being so awesome so far; and here’s to Brasier, Brewer and Thornburg in their efforts to put it all back together.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on May 15, 2019 15:20:58 GMT -5
Complete list of MLB games with SO% of 70.0% or higher, minimum 9 strikeouts.
Chris Sale, 8/12/18, 5 IP, 1 H, 0 BB, 12 SO, 75.0%.
Chris Sale, 5/14/19, 7 IP, 3 H, 0 BB, 17 SO, 70.8%.
Sale also stands alone with 17 K in a 7 IP start. The most impressive of the 16 K 7 IP starts was Randy Johnson fanning 16 of 23.
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Post by soxin8 on May 15, 2019 16:03:06 GMT -5
In all honesty, the Red Sox could use a lefty in the bullpen. That Blackmon AB was a prime spot for a matchup lefty and the Red Sox just don't have the option. Eck even said this during that at bat. Any chance Josh Taylor is ready? That would seem like the easiest short-term solution, but I don't know anything about him other than that he's on the 40-man roster. Josh might get more consideration if his numbers were better against lefties but right now he has a reverse split.
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Post by bluechip on May 15, 2019 16:13:21 GMT -5
Putnam was reassigned to minor league camp during ST and has not appeared on any roster. He had TJ surgery in 2017, didn't pitch last year and may not be ready yet. He was a pretty decent RP with Chicago. Yeah I just read some articles from the spring. He said he felt great (100% in his own words). He was pitching. Then he had a hamstring pull... Now I'm not sure what's going on. His hamstring should be healed up by now... Another guy is Carson Smith, or even Wright. You'd think at least one of these guys should be able to contribute if they ever get healthy. Seems like the bullpen plan was to throw a lot of junk at the wall and see what sticks. It would be nice to have a solid major leaguer with big league pedigree instead of all these lottery ticket reclamation projects. Obviously pedigree helps. But spending money on relievers is often a terrible investment. Joe Kelly has been a dumpster fire. Greg Holland was given 14 million for one year by the Cards last year and released on August 1. Obviously there are many other examples.
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Post by jimed14 on May 15, 2019 16:16:10 GMT -5
Yeah I just read some articles from the spring. He said he felt great (100% in his own words). He was pitching. Then he had a hamstring pull... Now I'm not sure what's going on. His hamstring should be healed up by now... Another guy is Carson Smith, or even Wright. You'd think at least one of these guys should be able to contribute if they ever get healthy. Seems like the bullpen plan was to throw a lot of junk at the wall and see what sticks. It would be nice to have a solid major leaguer with big league pedigree instead of all these lottery ticket reclamation projects. Obviously pedigree helps. But spending money on relievers is often a terrible investment. Joe Kelly has been a dumpster fire. Greg Holland was given 14 million for one year by the Cards last year and released on August 1. Obviously there are many other examples. More examples like almost the entire list of free agent relievers from the offseason. And of course people will be like "they should have only signed the good 3-4 out of 20."
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Post by bluechip on May 15, 2019 16:28:00 GMT -5
Obviously pedigree helps. But spending money on relievers is often a terrible investment. Joe Kelly has been a dumpster fire. Greg Holland was given 14 million for one year by the Cards last year and released on August 1. Obviously there are many other examples. More examples like almost the entire list of free agent relievers from the offseason. And of course people will be like "they should have only signed the good 3-4 out of 20." David Robertson and Andrew Miller have hardly been dominant. On May 11th Ryan Brasier had a better ERA than Zach Britton (two scoreless innings for Britton and one earned run for Brasier, has since changed that). You get the best relievers you can, but don’t spend big money these guys.
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Post by telson13 on May 15, 2019 17:38:10 GMT -5
Barnes so far has been as good as Kimbrel. Walden has been nearly as good as Barnes was last year. Workman’s been as good as Brasier was. Maybe there’s less *depth*, but at the top they’re largely unchanged. I’m certainly not saying they shouldn’t put a bunch of feelers out on arms, but I’d prefer several smaller moves for arb dumps or tweeners who are early in their careers and are struggling as back-end starters. I think the volume approach at low cost is the way to go. They have a blueprint for success that way. They also have more minor league depth this year. The data say their bullpen has been solid. They got by last year with one of their main guys (Kelly) awful for three months. They have better options than making a talent-costly move for an expensive high-profile arm. I just don't believe in the guys the same way you do Telson. Workman was pretty lucky with that streak of not giving up a base hit in that long stretch. Walden has been incredible so far, but no track record there. The only guy I believe in out of this group is Barnes because he's had a track record of being dominant for 2 years now. It's like saying you believed that Hembree was a brand new pitcher when he didn't give up a run last year in June or whatever month it was. It's also saying that you believed in Joe Kelly's good start last year. I didn't at the time even though the message board believed the changes were real. To Don's point, there are 4 interesting arms in the system at the moment. Maybe 5 if you include Josh Taylor in that group. 2 of these guys are currently starting and you don't know how they'll handle high leverage to begin with in Hernandez and Houck. Just a huge gamble to go all in with just kids. It could pay off, I don't see Dombrowski gambling with just kids though. I hope your right. They can probably patch this thing up until July, it'll be interesting to see what the roster looks like after July. Yeah, I mean it makes sense to plan for an eventuality, but I wouldn’t go trying to bump guys down the depth chart. Hembree’s issues, for example, might be slightly amenable to change but he’s probably going to remain a 3.5 ERA pitcher. But that’s ok. The *team* has been lucky, because Walden/Workman have been good, not lucky. “Goodness” has a much higher likelihood of persistence than luck. So we’ll see...but the deeper data, just as they suggested Brasier’s implosion, suggest continued dominance (or at least quality) from W&W and Barnes, and improvement with Brewer. So big moves need not apply. Target a 3rd to 5th bullpen arm imo, someone at low cost. Only go big if a *need* arises.
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Post by bluechip on May 15, 2019 18:00:50 GMT -5
I just don't believe in the guys the same way you do Telson. Workman was pretty lucky with that streak of not giving up a base hit in that long stretch. Walden has been incredible so far, but no track record there. The only guy I believe in out of this group is Barnes because he's had a track record of being dominant for 2 years now. It's like saying you believed that Hembree was a brand new pitcher when he didn't give up a run last year in June or whatever month it was. It's also saying that you believed in Joe Kelly's good start last year. I didn't at the time even though the message board believed the changes were real. To Don's point, there are 4 interesting arms in the system at the moment. Maybe 5 if you include Josh Taylor in that group. 2 of these guys are currently starting and you don't know how they'll handle high leverage to begin with in Hernandez and Houck. Just a huge gamble to go all in with just kids. It could pay off, I don't see Dombrowski gambling with just kids though. I hope your right. They can probably patch this thing up until July, it'll be interesting to see what the roster looks like after July. Yeah, I mean it makes sense to plan for an eventuality, but I wouldn’t go trying to bump guys down the depth chart. Hembree’s issues, for example, might be slightly amenable to change but he’s probably going to remain a 3.5 ERA pitcher. But that’s ok. The *team* has been lucky, because Walden/Workman have been good, not lucky. “Goodness” has a much higher likelihood of persistence than luck. So we’ll see...but the deeper data, just as they suggested Brasier’s implosion, suggest continued dominance (or at least quality) from W&W and Barnes, and improvement with Brewer. So big moves need not apply. Target a 3rd to 5th bullpen arm imo, someone at low cost. Only go big if a *need* arises. Workman has been lucky to an extent. He has a .100 babip and 6.63 walks per 9ip.
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 18:10:07 GMT -5
Cora needs to get over his love affair with JBJ & park his butt permanently on the bench. Better yet DD should take the decision out of Cora's hands & send JBJ packing. Can't believe Sox fans have to continue to put up with this stupidity. Chavis needs to go to the Outfield & Nunez at 2B.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 15, 2019 18:32:57 GMT -5
Seems like we get GIDPd out of so many big innings. Maybe just my perception.
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Post by chrisfromnc on May 15, 2019 18:33:02 GMT -5
Cora needs to get over his love affair with JBJ & park his butt permanently on the bench. Better yet DD should take the decision out of Cora's hands & send JBJ packing. Can't believe Sox fans have to continue to put up with this stupidity. Chavis needs to go to the Outfield & Nunez at 2B. I’ll give you credit for being consistent.
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Post by incandenza on May 15, 2019 18:50:36 GMT -5
Cora needs to get over his love affair with JBJ & park his butt permanently on the bench. Better yet DD should take the decision out of Cora's hands & send JBJ packing. Can't believe Sox fans have to continue to put up with this stupidity. Chavis needs to go to the Outfield & Nunez at 2B. You are such a strange person. Meanwhile, Jackie hitting it hard to left field is exactly what we want to see. (Getting thrown out at second, not so much.) That's always the sign he's about to turn it around.
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 18:56:48 GMT -5
He finally gets a hit & runs himself into an out. He's always finally hitting something hard or getting a 6 hopper through that's going to turn it around for him & then reverts back to who he is. A bench player, defensive replacement, 4th outfielder, someone who does not start, an up & down player,someone you call up when there is an injury, someone you hype up & trade
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Post by chrisfromnc on May 15, 2019 19:09:33 GMT -5
He finally gets a hit & runs himself into an out. He's always finally hitting something hard or getting a 6 hopper through that's going to turn it around for him & then reverts back to who he is. A bench player, defensive replacement, 4th outfielder, someone who does not start, an up & down player,someone you call up when there is an injury, someone you hype up & trade I wonder where he has his LCS MVP trophy.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 15, 2019 19:10:10 GMT -5
He finally gets a hit & runs himself into an out. He's always finally hitting something hard or getting a 6 hopper through that's going to turn it around for him & then reverts back to who he is. A bench player, defensive replacement, 4th outfielder, someone who does not start, an up & down player,someone you call up when there is an injury, someone you hype up & trade Some epic trolling there. 🧐
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 19:13:14 GMT -5
He finally gets a hit & runs himself into an out. He's always finally hitting something hard or getting a 6 hopper through that's going to turn it around for him & then reverts back to who he is. A bench player, defensive replacement, 4th outfielder, someone who does not start, an up & down player,someone you call up when there is an injury, someone you hype up & trade Some epic trolling there. 🧐 Hard truth
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 15, 2019 19:16:54 GMT -5
Yes it has been fine, but talent is going to catch up to them. My problem is people pointing to last year like that's a given. My other problem is finding a high leverage arm outside of Barnes and maybe Walden. This problem is going to have to resolve itself from prospects from within or prospects are getting traded by July in a already thin farm system. People are crazy if they think Workman is going to be the third highest leverage arm come September. Especially when you ignore how good they are when they are and continue to expect them to never give up a run all year unless the game is already decided. How long have you had to wait to start bitching again? It's been weeks. I have bitched about 5 things consistently all year since the start of the 2019 off-season. -Eduardo Nunez (who's about to lose his roster spot to Pedrioa once he proves he's healthy) -John Henry's limits on spending (which has been proven) -The Steve Pearce contract (which looks bad) -The defense at third base (which looks shaky at best) -Finally the bullpen Yesterday was a case where a good team with a better bullpen beat you. One of the primary reasons why you lost was because of this reason. If you asked me to take 4 of the best bullpen arms out of each bullpen, I would take Barnes first, but then I'd take Wade Davis, Scott Oberg, and Yency Almonte. That's based on talent. Good teams in the postseason usually have dominant bullpens. Workman last year for reference had a FIP over 5 in the 2 or 3 games that Cora even trusted him in postseason games last year. Walden has been a godsend, but even you questioned his status on the 40 man roster last year (which I agreed with at the time) and has no track record of success. So "sorry for my complaining," all of it is justified. I don't talk to hear myself speak however. They're all valid things to talk about.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 15, 2019 19:17:58 GMT -5
He finally gets a hit & runs himself into an out. He's always finally hitting something hard or getting a 6 hopper through that's going to turn it around for him & then reverts back to who he is. A bench player, defensive replacement, 4th outfielder, someone who does not start, an up & down player,someone you call up when there is an injury, someone you hype up & trade Some epic trolling there. 🧐 It was a good risk too. 2 outs, you try for 2 bases and get yourself in scoring position. Calm yourself dmaineah.
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