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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 15:55:16 GMT -5
Remember last year when the bullpen was the Achilles heel that prevented us from winning the World Series? How can Dombrowski possibly think this team can win as it's currently constructed... YOU LOST CRAIG KIMBREL FROM LAST YEAR. YOU'RE BULLPEN IS EVEN WORSE THIS YEAR.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 15:56:35 GMT -5
And what if the starting rotation turns it around in the last 2 months here? Then we cruise into the wild card game and have a good shot at making a long run in the playoffs, especially with a Workman/Barnes/Hernandez/Eovaldi bullpen + Cora's willingness to use starters situationally in the playoffs. Adding a decent bullpen arm neither greatly improves their odds of making the playoffs (which depend mainly on the starters) nor improves them much in the playoffs (where they weren't going to improve on the core group named above). Keep drinking that cool aid bragging about those bullpen arms.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 31, 2019 15:57:24 GMT -5
Remember last year when the bullpen was the Achilles heel that prevented us from winning the World Series? How can Dombrowski possibly think this team can win as it's currently constructed... The bullpen was propped up by starters doubling as setup men in between starts, and a year later those starters have been nowhere near as effective as they were last year. I don't know for sure, but is it possible that the heavy workload could be linked to the starters' struggles this season? I wouldn't trade the results of last season but I think the bullpen not getting an upgrade last season might be impacting the 2019 season, or at least that of the starters.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 31, 2019 15:57:42 GMT -5
Remember last year when the bullpen was the Achilles heel that prevented us from winning the World Series? How can Dombrowski possibly think this team can win as it's currently constructed... YOU LOST CRAIG KIMBREL FROM LAST YEAR. YOU'RE BULLPEN IS EVEN WORSE THIS YEAR. So, who wants to take the honors this time of re-litigating Kimbrel's performance in last year's playoffs?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2019 15:57:45 GMT -5
Well I am thrilled to know that Darwinzon will be getting higher leverage now. Eovaldi looked much better last night as well.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 31, 2019 15:59:27 GMT -5
Remember last year when the bullpen was the Achilles heel that prevented us from winning the World Series? How can Dombrowski possibly think this team can win as it's currently constructed... To think that upgrading Brewer (who isn't even on the roster when everyone is healthy) is going to make any difference whatsoever rather than the entire team playing the way they are capable of.... I don't even know how to finish that. Well, it's not one or the other. You can upgrade on Brewer AND the rest of the team can play up to expectations. The latter half of that equation is much more important, of course.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 15:59:39 GMT -5
YOU LOST CRAIG KIMBREL FROM LAST YEAR. YOU'RE BULLPEN IS EVEN WORSE THIS YEAR. So, who wants to take the honors this time of re-litigating Kimbrel's performance in last year's playoffs? 2.3 bWAR VALUE IN 2018.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 31, 2019 16:03:24 GMT -5
People are really losing their minds over twenty innings of Daniel Hudson or whatever.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 31, 2019 16:06:09 GMT -5
Seems odd for Dave to be talking about the Wild-Card game, when they are on the outside looking in. Not to mention that each of the teams ahead of them just got better. Using starters to save the bullpen in the postseason would be great, but you gotta get there first. For me it's all about Price, Sale and Porcello. Realistically with the bad farm system we're currently rocking, there really wasn't anyone that we could have gotten that would have the same upside as that trio performing better. The bullpen isn't much to write home about, but there's no amount of relievers he could have traded for that would make any difference if Sale and Price suck ass for another month or so.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 16:09:04 GMT -5
People are really losing their minds over twenty innings of Daniel Hudson or whatever. When Colton Brewer is blowing games in late July, it does make sense that you rather see ANYONE else.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 31, 2019 16:09:57 GMT -5
People are really losing their minds over twenty innings of Daniel Hudson or whatever. When Colton Brewer is blowing games in late July, it does make sense that you rather see ANYONE else. Perhaps one might even overreact to such a thing.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 16:12:53 GMT -5
When Colton Brewer is blowing games in late July, it does make sense that you rather see ANYONE else. Perhaps one might even overreact to such a thing. Every game matters. You could win or lose the 2nd wild card spot by one game.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 31, 2019 16:14:46 GMT -5
i thought they would make a move for a bullpen piece. However, I trust Dave and the FO staff were just not given a deal that made sense to them We also don't know if ownership chimed in.
The fact the MFY didnt do anything is very surprising and I hope crushes their chances to win WS. i don't think they starting pitching is good enough and they wont be able to stretch out the bullpen if they run into a lot of game 6 and 7's
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2019 16:18:02 GMT -5
To think that upgrading Brewer (who isn't even on the roster when everyone is healthy) is going to make any difference whatsoever rather than the entire team playing the way they are capable of.... I don't even know how to finish that. Well, it's not one or the other. You can upgrade on Brewer AND the rest of the team can play up to expectations. The latter half of that equation is much more important, of course. Well, Brewer doesn't even have a roster spot when everyone is back. So they will be upgrading on Brewer. We're talking about upgrading the 10th relief pitcher on the depth chart (and that's even ahead of Brasier who could bounce back at some point). His value is that he can optioned. People are overreacting because of one poor choice by Cora in one game.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 31, 2019 16:22:02 GMT -5
This is interesting. I thought 3 out 4 was ok. While it was a sloppy played game, it must have tipped his decision on whether or not the Sox could win the division.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 31, 2019 16:24:06 GMT -5
Dombroski "You can't believe how many calls I got today about our bullpen arms." Nods head...Yup, we can't believe it either.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 31, 2019 16:24:11 GMT -5
i thought they would make a move for a bullpen piece. However, I trust Dave and the FO staff were just not given a deal that made sense to them We also don't know if ownership chimed in. The fact the MFY didnt do anything is very surprising and I hope crushes their chances to win WS. i don't think they starting pitching is good enough and they wont be able to stretch out the bullpen if they run into a lot of game 6 and 7's Given what the Astros did to help their rotation with Greinke and with their lineup, they have to be favorites over the MFYs.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 31, 2019 16:25:15 GMT -5
Dombroski "You can't believe how many calls I got today about our bullpen arms." Nods head...Yup, we can't believe it either. I wonder if he received any calls on Hembree.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2019 16:27:54 GMT -5
Dombroski "You can't believe how many calls I got today about our bullpen arms." Nods head...Yup, we can't believe it either. I wonder if he received any calls on Hembree. He's at least equal to half the bullpen guys that people are upset that we didn't trade for.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 31, 2019 16:31:29 GMT -5
Well, it's not one or the other. You can upgrade on Brewer AND the rest of the team can play up to expectations. The latter half of that equation is much more important, of course. Well, Brewer doesn't even have a roster spot when everyone is back. So they will be upgrading on Brewer. We're talking about upgrading the 10th relief pitcher on the depth chart (and that's even ahead of Brasier who could bounce back at some point). His value is that he can optioned. People are overreacting because of one poor choice by Cora in one game. People are reacting because they don't trust the bullpen in the first place and felt it was an area in need of an upgrade. It's more than 1 game of Colten Brewer that fosters that opinion. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not comfortable in any situations where the Sox are clinging to a 1 run lead in the 9th. There's no stud in the bullpen that gives me the "Game over" feeling. Workman has been great, but he also walks way, way too many guys and I can't help but wonder when his BABIP will rise. I trust him more in the earlier innings, the 7th or 8th, but not as THE GUY in the 9th. That's my opinion and I doubt I'm alone in that. We can rehash the fireman/closer/most crucial outs in the game debate, but it's kind of pointless. I'm comfortable seeing Workman or Barnes (when he's right) come into high leverage in the 6th, 7th, or 8th, but I'm not comfortable with them in the closer's role. Eovaldi has the stuff and better control to be THE GUY in the 9th, but he lacks Ks. And as far as Hernandez goes, he's been impressive in a very, very small sample size, and I have no idea how he would react at this point of his career to coming in to a high stress 9th inning situation (not all saves are the 3 run type of saves) and perform. The only young fireballer I can remember coming up toward the end of the season and seizing the closer job was Calvin Schiraldi in 1986. Koji already had an amazing track record of pitching prior to 2013. He just didn't get the chance to close until then. Can Hernandez do what Schiraldi did in Aug/Sep 1986? Only time will tell. My feeling is that his control will still be an issue, albeit less of one when he starts. The irony is that the guy who would probably be the best closer on the Sox is Chris Sale who really dominates early on and then starts getting in trouble by the 3rd inning or so.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 31, 2019 16:32:43 GMT -5
Dombroski "You can't believe how many calls I got today about our bullpen arms." Nods head...Yup, we can't believe it either. I wonder if he received any calls on Hembree. I guess it is possible that Target or Walmart called to fill openings for back-to-school sales.
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Post by kjkramer on Jul 31, 2019 16:33:02 GMT -5
I am ok with making no moves. The only move I would have made is very unpopular on this site. I would have offered Betts my final offer thos past month and if he declined to sign, traded him for pitching and used his money on Devers and Benni. If they were not going to do that, I am ok staying pat with our salary cap status. Only other trade I would have explored would have been Chavis if his value was high enough to warrant the return
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 16:34:02 GMT -5
No one's trading any value for Heath Hembree, who is 30 years old, especially on a rebuilding team. I overvalue every relief pitcher, nope. I see value as other teams see things. The last guy I'm asking for in trades is Heath Hembree if I'm the Marlins and I want to do deal Romo, in his example. For a guy who was claiming to be the GM whisperer last week, you are in violent disagreement with how this team valued their external options. This board is ridiculous. Everyone and their mothers can see that their needed a improvement to be made. 4 or 5 posters on here and Dave Dombrowski couldn't see that. Frankly speaking, what the 2019 Red Sox did with this bullpen this year was the most irresponsible thing that has been done since the 2015 starting rotation of the Sox that year.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2019 16:37:25 GMT -5
I am ok with making no moves. The only move I would have made is very unpopular on this site. I would have offered Betts my final offer thos past month and if he declined to sign, traded him for pitching and used his money on Devers and Benni. If they were not going to do that, I am ok staying pat with our salary cap status. Only other trade I would have explored would have been Chavis if his value was high enough to warrant the return I realize that this has been discussed to death, but how the hell is trading Mookie for pitching possibly going to make either team better? If you're trading Mookie, it would be for prospects, not for players that other teams don't value enough to keep on their roster for a playoff push.
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Post by kjkramer on Jul 31, 2019 16:59:11 GMT -5
I am ok with making no moves. The only move I would have made is very unpopular on this site. I would have offered Betts my final offer thos past month and if he declined to sign, traded him for pitching and used his money on Devers and Benni. If they were not going to do that, I am ok staying pat with our salary cap status. Only other trade I would have explored would have been Chavis if his value was high enough to warrant the return I realize that this has been discussed to death, but how the hell is trading Mookie for pitching possibly going to make either team better? If you're trading Mookie, it would be for prospects, not for players that other teams don't value enough to keep on their roster for a playoff push. Fair point. 👍
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