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Mid-Season Acquistion Time
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Post by Guidas on Jun 27, 2019 12:11:15 GMT -5
Given that Dombrowski tends to move early and (rather) decisively, and the hard July 31 deadline, whom do you want him to bring to the Sox - if anyone?
Personally I would be glad with any of the following in order:
Kirby Yates Ken Giles Will Smith
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,075
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Post by cdj on Jun 27, 2019 13:13:12 GMT -5
Will Smith would be my target out of those 3. I feel like he’d possibly be the cheapest too
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 27, 2019 13:19:28 GMT -5
I don't think Yates is somebody the Padres are going to give up unless totally blown away. They're on the verge of becoming a very good team. They'll need a closer and they have an excellent one.
Will Smith is a logical candidate that many teams will be chasing.
Giles is a guy who has had his issues in the past with his performance never equaling up to his numbers. This year it appears his performance is actually better than his numbers are. Maybe he's turned a corner? I can totally see the Sox going after Giles.
I can also see them going after Shane Greene who's finally having a good season.
I'm sure there are some others out there.
Perhaps Holland of Arizona?
I keep thinking the Sox are going to wind up surrendering one of Hernandez/Feltman/Houck/Lakins with my guess being Houck as I assume they want to hang onto Mata and would prefer to surrender Lakins who won't be what other teams are looking for unless he comes as a 3rd piece in a deal.
I don't think the Sox surrender Dalbec for a closer with a year and a half of service time - I certainly hope not, but we'll see.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 27, 2019 13:20:22 GMT -5
Will Smith would be my target out of those 3. I feel like he’d possibly be the cheapest too I think the amount of competition for his services will drive his price up somewhat.
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Post by 1toolplayer on Jun 27, 2019 13:28:17 GMT -5
Will Smith is a top choice for me as well. Felipe Vasquez would prob be my number 1 target, but would likely take a significant return given his term remaining.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 27, 2019 13:47:27 GMT -5
If they do acquire someone (which I hope they don't, but won't get into here) I'd add Brand Hand and Alex Colome to the the potential wish list. Not sure if either would be available. The Indians are currently sitting in the WC2 spot 1 game over Boston and Texas. They're not trading away pieces.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,075
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Post by cdj on Jun 27, 2019 15:41:31 GMT -5
Will Smith would be my target out of those 3. I feel like he’d possibly be the cheapest too I think the amount of competition for his services will drive his price up somewhat. He’s not going to be cheap by any means But I believe he has one year less control than those guys and he also recently missed a whole season
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2019 16:28:40 GMT -5
Yeah, the Indians would be crazy to sell anyone while being in the WC spot. But the Red Sox would be crazy if they didn't sell everyone they could even if they had the same record.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 27, 2019 17:28:55 GMT -5
Yeah, the Indians would be crazy to sell anyone while being in the WC spot. But the Red Sox would be crazy if they didn't sell everyone they could even if they had the same record. You must be lonely.
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Post by beavertontim on Jun 27, 2019 18:24:42 GMT -5
Yeah, the Indians would be crazy to sell anyone while being in the WC spot. But the Red Sox would be crazy if they didn't sell everyone they could even if they had the same record. I would agree on seller mode. Bradley, Holt and Porcello would be my first choices to sell. Cut some payroll and build the farm up a bit.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 27, 2019 19:13:42 GMT -5
I want to propose something like Shawaryn's Law: I wouldn't trade for any reliever who wouldn't clearly be better than Shawaryn right now, but I also wouldn't trade any prospect as good as Shawaryn or better to get them.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 27, 2019 19:29:31 GMT -5
Yeah, the Indians would be crazy to sell anyone while being in the WC spot. But the Red Sox would be crazy if they didn't sell everyone they could even if they had the same record. I would agree on seller mode. Bradley, Holt and Porcello would be my first choices to sell. Cut some payroll and build the farm up a bit. The goal of the Boston Red Sox organization isn't to have the best farm system. It's to win the world series. A balance is needed and right now the farm system is lacking. But to sell now, a game out of the the wild card would be admitting defeat. It's cowardly. Make a play to get into the playoffs and anything can happen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 27, 2019 19:49:47 GMT -5
Given that Dombrowski tends to move early and (rather) decisively, and the hard July 31 deadline, whom do you want him to bring to the Sox - if anyone? Personally I would be glad with any of the following in order: Kirby Yates Ken Giles Will Smith Add- Felipe Vazquez and Edwin Diaz to this list guidas. Would love to see the Sox subtract Nunez and add Derek Dietrich in a trade also. He's got power and he's a 3 win improvement over Nunez right now.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 27, 2019 19:51:40 GMT -5
I want to propose something like Shawaryn's Law: I wouldn't trade for any reliever who wouldn't clearly be better than Shawaryn right now, but I also wouldn't trade any prospect as good as Shawaryn or better to get them. You're not trying to win in that case. You are just calling stalemate if you admit defeat on the prospect of the bullpen not getting better by adding a elite reliever. You can't win if you're not afraid to lose, would be how the saying goes for me.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 27, 2019 19:52:50 GMT -5
I don't think Yates is somebody the Padres are going to give up unless totally blown away. They're on the verge of becoming a very good team. They'll need a closer and they have an excellent one. Will Smith is a logical candidate that many teams will be chasing. Giles is a guy who has had his issues in the past with his performance never equaling up to his numbers. This year it appears his performance is actually better than his numbers are. Maybe he's turned a corner? I can totally see the Sox going after Giles. I can also see them going after Shane Greene who's finally having a good season. I'm sure there are some others out there. Perhaps Holland of Arizona? I keep thinking the Sox are going to wind up surrendering one of Hernandez/Feltman/Houck/Lakins with my guess being Houck as I assume they want to hang onto Mata and would prefer to surrender Lakins who won't be what other teams are looking for unless he comes as a 3rd piece in a deal. I don't think the Sox surrender Dalbec for a closer with a year and a half of service time - I certainly hope not, but we'll see. Holland doesn't make you substantially better past the deadline. He would have if you spent the 2.5 million in the off-season, but too little too late for that one.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 27, 2019 20:21:45 GMT -5
I would agree on seller mode. Bradley, Holt and Porcello would be my first choices to sell. Cut some payroll and build the farm up a bit. The goal of the Boston Red Sox organization isn't to have the best farm system. It's to win the world series. A balance is needed and right now the farm system is lacking. But to sell now, a game out of the the wild card would be admitting defeat. It's cowardly. Make a play to get into the playoffs and anything can happen. The goal of every Boston team is to win every year. That mentality is going to bite you eventually. They're at serious risk of missing the playoffs entirely as they're 2.5 behind Tampa, 1.5 behind Texas and 0.5 behind Cleveland while 1.0 over Oakland. I'd also be worried about the 2 game set in London without Price and Sale which means you might be looking at sinking a tad further. No, I'm not saying they're out. I'm saying the 14 game stretch at the deadline is crucial. If they're 4 games out of WC2 by the deadline are you confident in trading away Casas or Dalbec in trying to win now? Even if you get in you're dealing with a 1 game scenario. If they're up 1 or 2 in WC2, fine, do what ever you feel is best if you feel like adding a piece can put these guys over the top. Right now DD should be exploring both avenues and ready to deal in either direction by the trade deadline. He's notorious for trading early than waiting around, but I strongly feel you have to wait till the deadline before deciding what to do. Then again, what can DD really buy? No one in the system is really worth anything, at least for high end talent.
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Post by dmaineah on Jun 27, 2019 21:49:32 GMT -5
Unfortunately for the Red Sox Dombrowski has let the time to make a trade for Relief Pitching pass. That decision (to help the team) needed to be acted on 3 weeks ago. Nothing to do now but stay the course with the roster the way it is currently constructed & hope for player improvement to make a run at a wild card spot (hopefully further). And that is exactly what I expect Dombrowski to do. I'll be shocked if he trades for or trades away anybody.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 27, 2019 21:54:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately for the Red Sox Dombrowski has let the time to make a trade for Relief Pitching pass. That decision (to help the team) needed to be acted on 3 weeks ago. Nothing to do now but stay the course with the roster the way it is currently constructed & hope for player improvement to make a run at a wild card spot (hopefully further). And that is exactly what I expect Dombrowski to do. I'll be shocked if he trades for or trades away anybody. That makes little sense to me. They have until 7/31 to upgrade the pen and I expect they will. What does 3 weeks ago have to do with anything? Even if he had gotten somebody 3 weeks ago, they'd still be well behind the Yankees. The division race is probably over but the Wild Card race has just begun. He's not going to let the Red Sox fail to make the playoffs because he didn't improve a problem area.
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Post by dmaineah on Jun 27, 2019 22:16:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately for the Red Sox Dombrowski has let the time to make a trade for Relief Pitching pass. That decision (to help the team) needed to be acted on 3 weeks ago. Nothing to do now but stay the course with the roster the way it is currently constructed & hope for player improvement to make a run at a wild card spot (hopefully further). And that is exactly what I expect Dombrowski to do. I'll be shocked if he trades for or trades away anybody. That makes little sense to me. They have until 7/31 to upgrade the pen and I expect they will. What does 3 weeks ago have to do with anything? Even if he had gotten somebody 3 weeks ago, they'd still be well behind the Yankees. The division race is probably over but the Wild Card race has just begun . He's not going to let the Red Sox fail to make the playoffs because he didn't improve a problem area.He already has.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 27, 2019 22:55:45 GMT -5
Holland doesn't make you substantially better past the deadline. He would have if you spent the 2.5 million in the off-season, but too little too late for that one.Then you're already at the stalemate that you previously gave incandenza a hard time about. No reliever is going to do much in terms of WAR (or general outcome) over the course of 15-20 innings. Honestly, mid-season baseball trades are some of the worst value deals in sports and it's not like that's a well-kept secret. Sure make Pearce for Espinal trades all day long, but the Kinsler/Buttrey deals are painful. On the other side of the trade coin, who do you want to give up in terms of prospects for a reliever right now? I could live with Dalbec or Chatham (assuming you get good value for either) and maybe sell high with Duran if you can get top 100 value. The rest, IMHO, are non-starters for relief help. I'd rather see Feltman and Hernandez in our bullpen then traded. Groome, Houck, and Mata all have varying levels of starter potential and there's no way I trade that for a rental. There were a couple of scouts who thought Flores was our best prospect last year. Again, not a good option. Shawaryn law makes a lot of sense. In terms of WAR will it make much of a impact? Nope, but in terms of actual wins it might. The problem with Holland is that he is mediocre and doesn't move the needle. Mediocre could have helped throughout a whole season in terms of depth, because mediocre would have been better than the bad that the Sox got out of Thornburg or Brewer for example to start the year. Good luck trying to match up with playoff calibre team's bullpens and praying you make it through to the world series if you have less depth (and you do have less depth, at the moment). It's just too bad this is going to be pushed until the trade deadline and teams are going to wait it out. The Sox would benefit from making a impact reliever trade sooner, rather than later.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 27, 2019 23:58:21 GMT -5
I want to propose something like Shawaryn's Law: I wouldn't trade for any reliever who wouldn't clearly be better than Shawaryn right now, but I also wouldn't trade any prospect as good as Shawaryn or better to get them. You're not trying to win in that case. Your just calling stalemate if you admit defeat on the prospect of the bullpen not getting better by adding a elite reliever. You can't win if you're not afraid to lose, would be how the saying goes for me. There's always a question of how much a move is gonna help the team. The thing is, in all likelihood the Red Sox are not going to go from a wild card to a division winner by getting an elite bullpen arm. And while it could help get the wild card all that does is get you into the coin-flip playoff game. And I also think last year is a pretty good precedent to show that they don't need elite bullpen arms to make a run in the playoffs. (Kimbrel sucked; Eovaldi, Price, and Sale were among their best "relievers.") So that's all just to say the gains from any such trade woulld be minimal. Meanwhile, the farm system is still at low ebb and just starting to get better. I hate the lack of depth on this 2019 team and that's a product, in part, of not having more prospects you could, say, put into bullpen roles. Guys like Ty Buttrey say. I'm keen to not trade the next Ty Buttrey. Anyway, it's June and you've already stated about a thousand times that you want to add an elite bullpen arm. (Much as you did last season, IIRC.) So you tell me - what price would you pay for a Yates or a Giles or whatever? And remember that we have about 1 prospect toward the back of the top 100 and think about what another team would want with that in mind.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2019 3:28:40 GMT -5
You're not trying to win in that case. Your just calling stalemate if you admit defeat on the prospect of the bullpen not getting better by adding a elite reliever. You can't win if you're not afraid to lose, would be how the saying goes for me. There's always a question of how much a move is gonna help the team. The thing is, in all likelihood the Red Sox are not going to go from a wild card to a division winner by getting an elite bullpen arm. And while it could help get the wild card all that does is get you into the coin-flip playoff game. And I also think last year is a pretty good precedent to show that they don't need elite bullpen arms to make a run in the playoffs. (Kimbrel sucked; Eovaldi, Price, and Sale were among their best "relievers.") So that's all just to say the gains from any such trade woulld be minimal. Meanwhile, the farm system is still at low ebb and just starting to get better. I hate the lack of depth on this 2019 team and that's a product, in part, of not having more prospects you could, say, put into bullpen roles. Guys like Ty Buttrey say. I'm keen to not trade the next Ty Buttrey. Anyway, it's June and you've already stated about a thousand times that you want to add an elite bullpen arm. (Much as you did last season, IIRC.) So you tell me - what price would you pay for a Yates or a Giles or whatever? And remember that we have about 1 prospect toward the back of the top 100 and think about what another team would want with that in mind. Last year was only one example of one team making a run. The Indians made it to the world series with a elite bullpen. The Royals were built off of a elite bullpen. The Cubs had one of the best closing acquisitions in MLB history with Chapman. The Orioles made a run to the championship series built on a elite bullpen. Last year also taught us that having little depth can cost you a world series. Do you remember the Dodgers running out Ryan Madson because they had no one else to go to? Well that could be your 2019 Red Sox playoffs right there. They could literally be running out Ryan Brasier in tight ballgames because the Sox have no one else to go to, unless you make a move. There's only 2 or 3 untouchables in this system for me. Groome, Casas, and Flores. I would find multiple packages including 2 top ten prospects in this system for a Diaz besides those 3 untouchables. Like I'd try and stay away from Darwinzon in a trade with Giles because of the lack of team control, but Duran? Dalbec? Mata? Feltman? Houck? Sure package two of them and beat someone else's trade package to get someone elite. Chances are, none of these prospects will be elite ever. There's been 4 or 5 prospects that you can even look back on and say that the other team got good value for. Moncada, Buttrey, Logan Allen, Kopech. Like Dombrowski traded a million of them and that's the only ones we are left talking about. None of these prospects are missed by me. Go buy them in free agency in 5 years if the Sox miss them so much (they don't miss them that much). You know what would be a bigger travesty than depleting a already non existent farm system? Not maxing out Mookie Betts, Devers, Xander's, JDM (for as long as you have him), Price, and Sales' primes. Like you're sitting here with an obvious weakness and blowing more games than any other team in baseball. ***LIKE THIS MOVE WILL OBVIOUSLY MAKE THE SOX BETTER WINS AND LOSS WISE, WHY IS THIS A QUESTION?!!!*** Every single division leader in the American League has a better bullpen than the Boston Red Sox. You're worried about a farm system when you can try to fix your biggest bullpen problem while Xander Bogaerts is playing like the 2nd best player in the American League. Yeah, that's not smart at all. After this 3-4 year window when Sale, Xander, Mookie, and Price are finishing up their careers in Boston or are close to done in their careers, you're talking about blowing up the team anyways and starting over. Keep playing to win when you have some of the best pieces in baseball. It's a game to me. I'm not sentimental about any prospect, never will be. I'll never look back at the Buttrey and Logan Allen deals and say they lost. You're asking the wrong guy who you would trade. I would trade virtually anyone (besides my untouchables) to get Xander another ring for example and make that ring number 3 on his hand. That's the prospect I'm sentimental towards. The guy that's already helped you win multiple times.
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 28, 2019 6:20:36 GMT -5
The sox are in a catch 22 situation. What are the true goals. One, fill the seats. Two, be in the playoffs every year to have a chance to win the WS. Right now I do not really see the playoffs this year. If I jump in and say yeah they can make the playoffs. I do not think they have a chance to win. Strong power pitching, good defense, timely hitting and some luck win the WS. The pitching is in tough shape. Defense remains pretty good. Timely hitting I would say no. Luck. I think we used up some of this year's good luck last year. Does it mean I give up on this year's season if I am Dave no. He still has to shoot for the 2 goals mentioned above. I think the sox should be sellers. Do not tank> But look at it from where the yankees did a few years back when they traded miller and chapman for prospects. Look at it as a chance to rebuild around the 4 key players mentioned for the 3-4 yr window. Moving Porcello helps with the cap numbers. What can a team like the twins or the brewers give you to get rick? Maybe even E-rod. Or is it the time to move JBJ? All three are just examples. With the emphasis on not giving them away. STILL looking at creating value to build around Pedro's core. Maybe you see if you can move both pearce and nunez. Even if you only create playing time for dalbec, Chavis and chatham. I do not see that we can add enough after giving something up to be able to seriously contend for the Series.
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 28, 2019 6:22:42 GMT -5
Unfortunately for the Red Sox Dombrowski has let the time to make a trade for Relief Pitching pass. That decision (to help the team) needed to be acted on 3 weeks ago. Nothing to do now but stay the course with the roster the way it is currently constructed & hope for player improvement to make a run at a wild card spot (hopefully further). And that is exactly what I expect Dombrowski to do. I'll be shocked if he trades for or trades away anybody. Dombrowski would get lynched in this town if he stands pat and the bullpen keeps up their blown save streak... Especially if the sox miss the playoffs by only a game or two, or makes the playoffs and the bullpen blows saves in playoff games. I think Dombrowski needs to get creative. He not only might trade prospects, but someone from the major League roster to get a reliever.
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Post by dmaineah on Jun 28, 2019 6:25:16 GMT -5
I'd like to hear who everybody thinks the Red Sox top 3 trade prospects are.
Chavis Casas Duran
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