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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 22, 2020 13:40:00 GMT -5
He literally only said "capable of going to an outfield corner and contributing." That's it. Contributing kinda the way Mookie did. If “kinda” means not really like... ok. If it means bearing a close resemblance.... well, we can dream. I see the confusion. I don't always express myself well. Sometimes English is like a second language to me, with the only problem being that it's the only language I know. lol I like Jeter Downs as a player. I think he's a potential .260 - .285 with 20 - 25 HR type of power kind of guy who can play 2b, but be nimble enough to move to an OF corner and help contribute to a winning team. Mookie started off as a 2b but moved to RF because Pedroia was still a viable 2b for the foreseeable future at the time. I think Yorke might be impressive enough to move Downs off of 2b at some point, but being that Downs should be ready about 2 - 3 years before Yorke is ready I can see a transition at some point, which would be a great problem to have.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 22, 2020 14:04:15 GMT -5
Nick Yorke with another double in Pawtucket, this one an opposite field hit down the RF line (pitcher was Seth Blair). Ian has a clip of the hit:
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Post by incandenza on Sept 22, 2020 14:24:05 GMT -5
Just to completely jump the gun here... how impressive would it be for the Bloom regime if the Sox went completely off the board with their first round pick, and struck gold with it? It would be strong evidence that not only are they not going to follow the herd in their evaluations, their own evaluations are in fact really solid.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 22, 2020 15:51:05 GMT -5
Contributing kinda the way Mookie did. If “kinda” means not really like... ok. If it means bearing a close resemblance.... well, we can dream. I see the confusion. I don't always express myself well. Sometimes English is like a second language to me, with the only problem being that it's the only language I know. lol I like Jeter Downs as a player. I think he's a potential .260 - .285 with 20 - 25 HR type of power kind of guy who can play 2b, but be nimble enough to move to an OF corner and help contribute to a winning team. Mookie started off as a 2b but moved to RF because Pedroia was still a viable 2b for the foreseeable future at the time. I think Yorke might be impressive enough to move Downs off of 2b at some point, but being that Downs should be ready about 2 - 3 years before Yorke is ready I can see a transition at some point, which would be a great problem to have. I think that's how I sit on downs .280 25hr guy that is athletic enough to play multiple positions. He will add onto an already strong lineup.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 22, 2020 16:13:54 GMT -5
Wallace isn't going to report to Pawtucket. By the time he cleared intake and everything they're going to be done. Makes sense - just send him to Florida.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 22, 2020 19:58:12 GMT -5
Nick Yorke with another double in Pawtucket, this one an opposite field hit down the RF line (pitcher was Seth Blair). Ian has a clip of the hit: Yorke is done, he grounded to second on his next AB. Now he's only reached base 5 out of 6 PAs.
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Post by chr31ter on Sept 23, 2020 7:34:55 GMT -5
theathletic.com/2081113/2020/09/23/gammons-where-do-the-red-sox-go-from-here/Gammons on the Red Sox... * Center fielder Jarren Duran, who the organization feels is their best prospect and a potential star, showed constant 100+ exit velocity with a hitting adjustment made to lower his hands, solidify his foundation and use his hips. Duran can fly, going around the bases in 15 seconds flat on an inside-the-park homer. * Twenty-year-old Triston Casas, their first draft choice in 2018, showed plate discipline, barrel skills and power that led one of their executives to predict he and Duran “are going to be stars.” * When he traded Mitch Moreland to San Diego, he got a first-round potential power bat in Hudson Potts (who also has Bob Lanier feet), and center fielder Jeisson Rosario, an international signee who got $1.95 million from the Padres. After their stint in the Instructional League, both will likely start 2021 in A-ball. * Pivetta has one more season pre-arbitration, but the pitcher they — and several other teams — wanted is Connor Seabold. “He’s got a strong, sound delivery, his changeup screwball is a really good pitch, he’s in the mid-’90s and if he continues to improve his breaking ball he can be rotation guy who throws innings,” said a rival team official. “We liked him a lot in the third round, which is where they took him.” * Kevin Pillar gave the Red Sox 30 energetic games, then brought them reliever Jacob Wallace from Colorado. “ He may have the best makeup of anyone I’ve ever scouted in New England,” says one scout of Wallace, who was the Rockies’ third pick in 2019, 94-96 with a nasty slider. In the summer of 2018, his numbers for the Bourne Braves on the Cape were 13 2/3 IP, no runs, and a 25-5 strikeout-to-walk ratio. These eyes thought he was the best reliever on the Cape two summers ago. * Their best pitching prospect, 21-year old Bryan Mata, was consistently 97-99 mph in Pawtucket, and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June. * In addition, coming off Tommy John surgery, one of the most impressive pitchers in their alternate site was another former first-rounder, Jason Groome, whose velocity crept back into the mid-90s with his Max Fried-esque curveball and athletic delivery, and who is now a mid-2022 hope with a high ceiling. * Most likely, they won’t have one of the first two picks in next July’s draft and hence won’t have a shot at either Vanderbilt pitcher Kumar Rocker or Jack Leiter, but if Noah Song clears his Naval status and can report to spring training, they will add the equivalent.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 23, 2020 7:57:57 GMT -5
theathletic.com/2081113/2020/09/23/gammons-where-do-the-red-sox-go-from-here/Gammons on the Red Sox... * Center fielder Jarren Duran, who the organization feels is their best prospect and a potential star, showed constant 100+ exit velocity with a hitting adjustment made to lower his hands, solidify his foundation and use his hips. Duran can fly, going around the bases in 15 seconds flat on an inside-the-park homer. * Twenty-year-old Triston Casas, their first draft choice in 2018, showed plate discipline, barrel skills and power that led one of their executives to predict he and Duran “are going to be stars.” * When he traded Mitch Moreland to San Diego, he got a first-round potential power bat in Hudson Potts (who also has Bob Lanier feet), and center fielder Jeisson Rosario, an international signee who got $1.95 million from the Padres. After their stint in the Instructional League, both will likely start 2021 in A-ball. * Pivetta has one more season pre-arbitration, but the pitcher they — and several other teams — wanted is Connor Seabold. “He’s got a strong, sound delivery, his changeup screwball is a really good pitch, he’s in the mid-’90s and if he continues to improve his breaking ball he can be rotation guy who throws innings,” said a rival team official. “We liked him a lot in the third round, which is where they took him.” * Kevin Pillar gave the Red Sox 30 energetic games, then brought them reliever Jacob Wallace from Colorado. “ He may have the best makeup of anyone I’ve ever scouted in New England,” says one scout of Wallace, who was the Rockies’ third pick in 2019, 94-96 with a nasty slider. In the summer of 2018, his numbers for the Bourne Braves on the Cape were 13 2/3 IP, no runs, and a 25-5 strikeout-to-walk ratio. These eyes thought he was the best reliever on the Cape two summers ago. * Their best pitching prospect, 21-year old Bryan Mata, was consistently 97-99 mph in Pawtucket, and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June. * In addition, coming off Tommy John surgery, one of the most impressive pitchers in their alternate site was another former first-rounder, Jason Groome, whose velocity crept back into the mid-90s with his Max Fried-esque curveball and athletic delivery, and who is now a mid-2022 hope with a high ceiling. * Most likely, they won’t have one of the first two picks in next July’s draft and hence won’t have a shot at either Vanderbilt pitcher Kumar Rocker or Jack Leiter, but if Noah Song clears his Naval status and can report to spring training, they will add the equivalent. Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff, and very positive. Potts going to A-ball seems a little surprising since he has 130 games at AA over two seasons, though at .216/.285/.378 no one can say he conquered it. When are we gonna combine all these future #3 starters to trade them for a #1B?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 8:03:09 GMT -5
Good stuff.
As a tack-on, during the broadcast yesterday the announcers were comping Duran to Ellsbury. What they came up with was Ellsbury with a considerably stronger arm and more consistent power.
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Post by rismith on Sept 23, 2020 8:11:52 GMT -5
Has anyone ever discussed Thad Ward in terms of this year and his status for Sim City? He was the pitcher of the year in the system I think, is 23 and seems like he would have been the kind of pitcher that would have been at the Alternate Site getting work as a possible swing guy. Is it a 40 man issue?
Just curious thnx
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 8:37:33 GMT -5
Has anyone ever discussed Thad Ward in terms of this year and his status for Sim City? He was the pitcher of the year in the system I think, is 23 and seems like he would have been the kind of pitcher that would have been at the Alternate Site getting work as a possible swing guy. Is it a 40 man issue? Just curious thnx For me, it was more of a case of SimCity serving the Red Sox as a priority which limited the number of developmental slots. Even our #1 prospect didn't start until later. There was pretty much no way Ward was going to the bigs this year. They already had 2 higher ranked prospects Mata and Groome who weren't going to Boston either. 60 slots but you also need a bunch of catchers for catching a bunch of pitchers who were mostly relievers.
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badfishnbc
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Post by badfishnbc on Sept 23, 2020 8:50:13 GMT -5
theathletic.com/2081113/2020/09/23/gammons-where-do-the-red-sox-go-from-here/Gammons on the Red Sox... * Center fielder Jarren Duran, who the organization feels is their best prospect and a potential star, showed constant 100+ exit velocity with a hitting adjustment made to lower his hands, solidify his foundation and use his hips. Duran can fly, going around the bases in 15 seconds flat on an inside-the-park homer. * Twenty-year-old Triston Casas, their first draft choice in 2018, showed plate discipline, barrel skills and power that led one of their executives to predict he and Duran “are going to be stars.” * When he traded Mitch Moreland to San Diego, he got a first-round potential power bat in Hudson Potts (who also has Bob Lanier feet), and center fielder Jeisson Rosario, an international signee who got $1.95 million from the Padres. After their stint in the Instructional League, both will likely start 2021 in A-ball. * Pivetta has one more season pre-arbitration, but the pitcher they — and several other teams — wanted is Connor Seabold. “He’s got a strong, sound delivery, his changeup screwball is a really good pitch, he’s in the mid-’90s and if he continues to improve his breaking ball he can be rotation guy who throws innings,” said a rival team official. “We liked him a lot in the third round, which is where they took him.” * Kevin Pillar gave the Red Sox 30 energetic games, then brought them reliever Jacob Wallace from Colorado. “ He may have the best makeup of anyone I’ve ever scouted in New England,” says one scout of Wallace, who was the Rockies’ third pick in 2019, 94-96 with a nasty slider. In the summer of 2018, his numbers for the Bourne Braves on the Cape were 13 2/3 IP, no runs, and a 25-5 strikeout-to-walk ratio. These eyes thought he was the best reliever on the Cape two summers ago. * Their best pitching prospect, 21-year old Bryan Mata, was consistently 97-99 mph in Pawtucket, and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June. * In addition, coming off Tommy John surgery, one of the most impressive pitchers in their alternate site was another former first-rounder, Jason Groome, whose velocity crept back into the mid-90s with his Max Fried-esque curveball and athletic delivery, and who is now a mid-2022 hope with a high ceiling. * Most likely, they won’t have one of the first two picks in next July’s draft and hence won’t have a shot at either Vanderbilt pitcher Kumar Rocker or Jack Leiter, but if Noah Song clears his Naval status and can report to spring training, they will add the equivalent. I don't get to read much Gammons anymore, but man, what a great throw-back to the Sunday Notes columns that would have me pining for the arrivals of Horn and Blosser and Plantier and Dominican Mystery Men!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 9:00:47 GMT -5
Methinks the drought is nearing the end and there are rain clouds forming. The crops have been thirsty.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2020 9:07:45 GMT -5
theathletic.com/2081113/2020/09/23/gammons-where-do-the-red-sox-go-from-here/Gammons on the Red Sox... * Center fielder Jarren Duran, who the organization feels is their best prospect and a potential star, showed constant 100+ exit velocity with a hitting adjustment made to lower his hands, solidify his foundation and use his hips. Duran can fly, going around the bases in 15 seconds flat on an inside-the-park homer. * Twenty-year-old Triston Casas, their first draft choice in 2018, showed plate discipline, barrel skills and power that led one of their executives to predict he and Duran “are going to be stars.” * When he traded Mitch Moreland to San Diego, he got a first-round potential power bat in Hudson Potts (who also has Bob Lanier feet), and center fielder Jeisson Rosario, an international signee who got $1.95 million from the Padres. After their stint in the Instructional League, both will likely start 2021 in A-ball. * Pivetta has one more season pre-arbitration, but the pitcher they — and several other teams — wanted is Connor Seabold. “He’s got a strong, sound delivery, his changeup screwball is a really good pitch, he’s in the mid-’90s and if he continues to improve his breaking ball he can be rotation guy who throws innings,” said a rival team official. “We liked him a lot in the third round, which is where they took him.” * Kevin Pillar gave the Red Sox 30 energetic games, then brought them reliever Jacob Wallace from Colorado. “ He may have the best makeup of anyone I’ve ever scouted in New England,” says one scout of Wallace, who was the Rockies’ third pick in 2019, 94-96 with a nasty slider. In the summer of 2018, his numbers for the Bourne Braves on the Cape were 13 2/3 IP, no runs, and a 25-5 strikeout-to-walk ratio. These eyes thought he was the best reliever on the Cape two summers ago. * Their best pitching prospect, 21-year old Bryan Mata, was consistently 97-99 mph in Pawtucket, and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June. * In addition, coming off Tommy John surgery, one of the most impressive pitchers in their alternate site was another former first-rounder, Jason Groome, whose velocity crept back into the mid-90s with his Max Fried-esque curveball and athletic delivery, and who is now a mid-2022 hope with a high ceiling. * Most likely, they won’t have one of the first two picks in next July’s draft and hence won’t have a shot at either Vanderbilt pitcher Kumar Rocker or Jack Leiter, but if Noah Song clears his Naval status and can report to spring training, they will add the equivalent. Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff, and very positive. Potts going to A-ball seems a little surprising since he has 130 games at AA over two seasons, though at .216/.285/.378 no one can say he conquered it. When are we gonna combine all these future #3 starters to trade them for a #1B?I do miss reading Gammons every Sunday. Will say the last bullet point has me scratching my head. I though Song is a potential mid-rotation starter if all works out well while Kumar Rocker is the most likely guy from that draft to be a top-of-the rotation starter. How is Song equal to Rocker? And if the Sox don't blow the 3rd pick how is Gammons certain Leiter wouldn't be around for the 3rd pick? It seems like a slam dunk that Rocker is first but isn't there some real possibility for variability afterwards? And beyond the scouting reports (Duran sounds exciting - we'll see if the power is real), did Gammons in that article mention any potential moves he anticipates the Sox making?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 9:18:20 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff, and very positive. Potts going to A-ball seems a little surprising since he has 130 games at AA over two seasons, though at .216/.285/.378 no one can say he conquered it. When are we gonna combine all these future #3 starters to trade them for a #1B?I do miss reading Gammons every Sunday. Will say the last bullet point has me scratching my head. I though Song is a potential mid-rotation starter if all works out well while Kumar Rocker is the most likely guy from that draft to be a top-of-the rotation starter. How is Song equal to Rocker? And if the Sox don't blow the 3rd pick how is Gammons certain Leiter wouldn't be around for the 3rd pick? It seems like a slam dunk that Rocker is first but isn't there some real possibility for variability afterwards? And beyond the scouting reports (Duran sounds exciting - we'll see if the power is real), did Gammons in that article mention any potential moves he anticipates the Sox making? Song was easily the best starter in the Premier12 games and looked every bit like a potential top of the rotation guy. The only higher ranked pitcher at our site is Mata and Noah hasn't pitched in 2 years.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 9:38:58 GMT -5
I like Gammons wish casting close:
If, when the new normal is established by 2023, they have Mata, Groome, Song, Seabold and Hernández in their rotation, all in their mid-20s, they will again be back to spending on the free agent they believe has star power.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 23, 2020 10:45:45 GMT -5
Great notes. Always nice to see those.
I love Peter, but the part about Potts and Rosario starting in "A-ball" can't be right. We frankly don't even know what "A-ball" is going to be yet. I could see Rosario in High A perhaps, but not Potts. That was always the tough thing about his columns like this - it's not clear what's coming from the team and what's coming from him.
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Post by manfred on Sept 23, 2020 11:01:54 GMT -5
Great notes. Always nice to see those. I love Peter, but the part about Potts and Rosario starting in "A-ball" can't be right. We frankly don't even know what "A-ball" is going to be yet. I could see Rosario in High A perhaps, but not Potts. That was always the tough thing about his columns like this - it's not clear what's coming from the team and what's coming from him. On a similar note: do the Sox legitimately see Duran as their best prospect? I am psyched for him, but I have a hard time imagining him as being a better prospect than Casas or Mata (indeed, even in the description of Mata that follows, he sounds pretty elite).
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Sept 23, 2020 11:03:02 GMT -5
Contributing kinda the way Mookie did. If “kinda” means not really like... ok. If it means bearing a close resemblance.... well, we can dream. I see the confusion. I don't always express myself well. Sometimes English is like a second language to me, with the only problem being that it's the only language I know. lol ... Not a problem. "Kinda" means "like to a certain extent," "somewhat similar," or even "similar, mutatis mutandis."
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 11:19:52 GMT -5
Great notes. Always nice to see those. I love Peter, but the part about Potts and Rosario starting in "A-ball" can't be right. We frankly don't even know what "A-ball" is going to be yet. I could see Rosario in High A perhaps, but not Potts. That was always the tough thing about his columns like this - it's not clear what's coming from the team and what's coming from him. On a similar note: do the Sox legitimately see Duran as their best prospect? I am psyched for him, but I have a hard time imagining him as being a better prospect than Casas or Mata (indeed, even in the description of Mata that follows, he sounds pretty elite). The other side of that coin is why not ? Do a tools inventory. Elaborating. IF they both become stars [their words], Casas will be the better hitter but Duran the more impactful player. There's also the premium position thing. On Mata: "and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June." Duran seems likely to be there April 16th.
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Post by manfred on Sept 23, 2020 12:13:36 GMT -5
On a similar note: do the Sox legitimately see Duran as their best prospect? I am psyched for him, but I have a hard time imagining him as being a better prospect than Casas or Mata (indeed, even in the description of Mata that follows, he sounds pretty elite). The other side of that coin is why not ? Do a tools inventory. Elaborating. IF they both become stars [their words], Casas will be the better hitter but Duran the more impactful player. There's also the premium position thing. On Mata: "and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June." Duran seems likely to be there April 16th. I guess part of my question is definitions: perhaps Duran is a *more certain* contributor than Mata, so if best prospect is certainty I get that. But it seems from the outside that Mata has a higher ceiling (as does Casas)... a different way of thinking of “best.” I’m agnostic on the rankings. My main point is that is the first I’ve seen Duran as the Sox top prospect. I’ve seen Casas and Downs. So I am curious if there has been a real shift in perception.
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Post by patford on Sept 23, 2020 12:45:19 GMT -5
Chris, Mike or Ian could probably answer this. It's mentioned in this thread that Song is projected as having a ceiling of a middle of the rotation starter. How often is any pitcher projected as a #1 ? I have the impression with pitchers you just don't see that. There are just too many unknowns with pitching and it seems scouts are really hesitant to project any prospect as a #1 and rarely a top of the rotation. As I recall Groome was considered the best pitcher in his draft. The initial ranking of him on Sox Prospects was, IIRC, a middle of the rotation starter. Yesterday or the day before Eric Van listed a half dozen MLB ace #1s who were never graded higher than middle of the rotation while they were in the Minors.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2020 12:50:04 GMT -5
Chris, Mike or Ian could probably answer this. It's mentioned in this thread that Song is projected as having a ceiling of a middle of the rotation starter. How often is any pitcher projected as a #1 ? I have the impression with pitchers you just don't see that. There are just too many unknowns with pitching and it seems scouts are really hesitant to project any prospect as a #1 and rarely a top of the rotation. As I recall Groome was considered the best pitcher in his draft. The initial ranking of him on Sox Prospects was, IIRC, a middle of the rotation starter. Yesterday or the day before Eric Van listed a half dozen MLB ace #1s who were never graded higher than middle of the rotation while they were in the Minors. Where would a Casey Mize have his ceiling projected in that scenario? Ceiling of Top of the Rotation Pitcher, no?
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Post by incandenza on Sept 23, 2020 13:10:06 GMT -5
Is it not completely crazy to liken Noah Song to a #1 overall draft pick? That throws every other claim there into doubt for me; I'm just not sure Gammons is a reliable narrator here.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 23, 2020 13:26:53 GMT -5
Lots of good stuff here. The other side of that coin is why not ? Do a tools inventory. Elaborating. IF they both become stars [their words], Casas will be the better hitter but Duran the more impactful player. There's also the premium position thing. On Mata: "and if he continues to improve his command, might be in the rotation by June." Duran seems likely to be there April 16th. I guess part of my question is definitions: perhaps Duran is a *more certain* contributor than Mata, so if best prospect is certainty I get that. But it seems from the outside that Mata has a higher ceiling (as does Casas)... a different way of thinking of “best.” I’m agnostic on the rankings. My main point is that is the first I’ve seen Duran as the Sox top prospect. I’ve seen Casas and Downs. So I am curious if there has been a real shift in perception. That stood out to me as well. I know of at least one FO member who LOVES Duran, and I'm sure there are others. I think the problem with the statement is attributing to the front office a single preference for their top prospect, which is probably not the case. There are almost certainly a couple people who might think he's their best prospect, but as you say, based on what? As far as position, I've come off of that a bit on prospect projection. Because yes, all things equal, Player X should play center field instead of first base if he can. But Freddie Freeman is currently second in fWAR for the season, and if Casas turns into Freddie Freeman, Duran has his work cut out for him being a more valuable player regardless of position, right? On Duran, yeah, if you think he's going to hit 20 home runs and will grow into above-average to plus defense in center, then yeah, you probably think he's the system's best prospect. Chris, Mike or Ian could probably answer this. It's mentioned in this thread that Song is projected as having a ceiling of a middle of the rotation starter. How often is any pitcher projected as a #1 ? I have the impression with pitchers you just don't see that. There are just too many unknowns with pitching and it seems scouts are really hesitant to project any prospect as a #1 and rarely a top of the rotation. As I recall Groome was considered the best pitcher in his draft. The initial ranking of him on Sox Prospects was, IIRC, a middle of the rotation starter. Yesterday or the day before Eric Van listed a half dozen MLB ace #1s who were never graded higher than middle of the rotation while they were in the Minors. Very few. Basically it's reserved for top 10 prospect-ish type guys. Right now you have maybe Mackenzie Gore, Casey Mize, and then a number of guys with ace upside (Pearson, Sixto, Kopech) but questions that keep that from being how you project them. Even ace upside I'd limit to top 25-ish guys. Is it not completely crazy to liken Noah Song to a #1 overall draft pick? That throws every other claim there into doubt for me; I'm just not sure Gammons is a reliable narrator here. I think he's saying if you know Song is back and pitching and he has retained all of his stuff, he's the equivalent of bringing in a top 5 or 10 pick. I think that's a bit aggressive but it's not crazy. Song is ranked as the 5th-best prospect in the system here despite the fact that he's in the middle of missing two years entirely. We don't even know if he's throwing a baseball at all. When he comes back, if he's dealing like he showed he's potentially able in say, High A, it's not out of the question for his stock to absolutely skyrocket overnight.
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