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Let’s discuss the Red Sox horrendous pitching
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 18, 2020 22:29:33 GMT -5
Literally the worst pitching staff in team history.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 18, 2020 22:49:32 GMT -5
On the bright side, we are witnessing history!
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Post by incandenza on Aug 18, 2020 22:58:11 GMT -5
What's funny is that they'd be in the same position if they hadn't made the Betts/Price trade: #1 starter gets Tommy John. #2 starter opts out. #3 starter gets covid. #6 starter (?), McHugh, opts out. #2 or 3 bullpen guy gets covid. It's an incredible run of bad luck.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 18, 2020 22:59:55 GMT -5
What's funny is that they'd be in the same position if they hadn't made the Betts/Price trade: #1 starter gets Tommy John. #2 starter opts out. #3 starter gets covid. #6 starter (?), McHugh, opts out. #2 or 3 bullpen guy gets covid. It's an incredible run of bad luck. But there’d be one more person with a pulse, making, like, three-ish?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 18, 2020 23:38:23 GMT -5
What's funny is that they'd be in the same position if they hadn't made the Betts/Price trade: #1 starter gets Tommy John. #2 starter opts out. #3 starter gets covid. #6 starter (?), McHugh, opts out. #2 or 3 bullpen guy gets covid. It's an incredible run of bad luck. I still blame Chaim.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 0:10:35 GMT -5
There's a ton of bad luck. While you can also blame the GM. Like he couldn't pry away a pitcher from the Dodgers? They needed that deal, they wanted that deal. Get creative like many have talked about. Also the tender Bradley over getting more pitching. We did know Sale wasn't close to 100% and Eovaldi gets injured all the time. Like it's bad now, imagine no Eovaldi. Imagine no Covid and 162 games with this pitching staff. In a way we are lucky.
I'm not trying to bash the GM either, nothing was horrible. The Betts trade wasn't bad, signing Bradley wasn't the worst thing. Yet it wasn't hard to see huge issues even without Covid. They didn't have a #5 starter, nevermind a #6/7 plan. They had injury risks, big ones. Maybe it ends up being a blessing, yet if Bloom was actually trying to win? Hmm that's worth a debate. He's made some interesting choices.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 19, 2020 8:01:45 GMT -5
There's a ton of bad luck. While you can also blame the GM. Like he couldn't pry away a pitcher from the Dodgers? They needed that deal, they wanted that deal. Get creative like many have talked about. Also the tender Bradley over getting more pitching. We did know Sale wasn't close to 100% and Eovaldi gets injured all the time. Like it's bad now, imagine no Eovaldi. Imagine no Covid and 162 games with this pitching staff. In a way we are lucky. I'm not trying to bash the GM either, nothing was horrible. The Betts trade wasn't bad, signing Bradley wasn't the worst thing. Yet it wasn't hard to see huge issues even without Covid. They didn't have a #5 starter, nevermind a #6/7 plan. They had injury risks, big ones. Maybe it ends up being a blessing, yet if Bloom was actually trying to win? Hmm that's worth a debate. He's made some interesting choices. Verdugo is 24 with an .867 OPS and they got a very well-rounded 2B prospect, and a catcher with some potential, but likely a non-factor for 60 games of Mookie Betts and half the albatross of David Price's contract. I don't think you really deserved to get more back. I would have liked to somehow get Graterol as well, but he'd just be a nice bullpen piece unless the Red Sox just wanted to start him until they destroyed his arm.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 19, 2020 9:22:59 GMT -5
If anyone is to blame for this current predicament, it certainly isn't Bloom or Roenicke. Bloom was hired on October 28th, by that time many, if not all of the wheels for the offseason were already set in motion. He then had to hit the ground running which likely meant the interim folks made most of the decisions while he tried to assess what he had both from a baseball ops perspective and from a talent perspective. I can't believe how short sighted, and petulant some folks are being on this matter. No one, and I mean NO ONE was going to swoop into that role and miraculously fix all that ailed the Sox in an offseason. Even if the management just threw money at the problem it wouldn't have gotten fixed in any sustainable fashion.
Dave Dombrowski dismantled our farm system, overpaid for veterans like Pierce, Eovaldi, Price, and didn't trade Bradley Jr when his value was higher, electing to keep him, when his arbitration salary kept outpacing his performance offensively. He gave out a contract to Sale that in retrospect was ill advised given the starters health when the ink dried. We as Sox fans knew what we were getting when Dombrowski came aboard, one only needs to look over at Detroit, and the shambles he left that organization in to see the writing on the wall for us ultimately with him at the helm. That one world series win came with a price, and it's coming due right now.
The only path forward is to do what we are doing now. Hunt for value, take our lumps, and hope a new offseason, coupled with what I think are changes needed in our scouting and baseball ops will bear fruit. Yes, this team sucks. It's likely to be the worst team fielded in Boston since the post Ruth seasons. That doesn't warrant an abrupt course change because of impatience. We've been through this before, it's what lead to the best manager we will ever have being fired, and one of the best GM's to leave for greener pastures. If the fans can't get their shit together and suck it up, we'll never have another talented individual stay in this organization and our grandkids will be talking about the curse of Bloom 86 years from now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 12:07:00 GMT -5
There's a ton of bad luck. While you can also blame the GM. Like he couldn't pry away a pitcher from the Dodgers? They needed that deal, they wanted that deal. Get creative like many have talked about. Also the tender Bradley over getting more pitching. We did know Sale wasn't close to 100% and Eovaldi gets injured all the time. Like it's bad now, imagine no Eovaldi. Imagine no Covid and 162 games with this pitching staff. In a way we are lucky. I'm not trying to bash the GM either, nothing was horrible. The Betts trade wasn't bad, signing Bradley wasn't the worst thing. Yet it wasn't hard to see huge issues even without Covid. They didn't have a #5 starter, nevermind a #6/7 plan. They had injury risks, big ones. Maybe it ends up being a blessing, yet if Bloom was actually trying to win? Hmm that's worth a debate. He's made some interesting choices. Verdugo is 24 with an .867 OPS and they got a very well-rounded 2B prospect, and a catcher with some potential, but likely a non-factor for 60 games of Mookie Betts and half the albatross of David Price's contract. I don't think you really deserved to get more back. I would have liked to somehow get Graterol as well, but he'd just be a nice bullpen piece unless the Red Sox just wanted to start him until they destroyed his arm. I wouldn't change Verdugo or Downs. I don't mind Wong, yet my point stands you couldn't get a pitcher from a team that has that many? Their AAA site likely is better than our whole staff. I would have went after a pitcher given our need over Wong. Like a said nothing huge, yet it seems like a miss opportunity. Where's the creative side like Tampa does shipping out a prospect to add another guy to the deal? Or a guy like Workman.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 12:24:02 GMT -5
Verdugo is 24 with an .867 OPS and they got a very well-rounded 2B prospect, and a catcher with some potential, but likely a non-factor for 60 games of Mookie Betts and half the albatross of David Price's contract. I don't think you really deserved to get more back. I would have liked to somehow get Graterol as well, but he'd just be a nice bullpen piece unless the Red Sox just wanted to start him until they destroyed his arm. I wouldn't change Verdugo or Downs. I don't mind Wong, yet my point stands you couldn't get a pitcher from a team that has that many? Their AAA site likely is better than our whole staff. I would have went after a pitcher given our need over Wong. Like a said nothing huge, yet it seems like a miss opportunity. Where's the creative side like Tampa does shipping out a prospect to add another guy to the deal? Or a guy like Workman. One thing that galls me is essentially giving Price away. Yes, it was great to dump salary. And yes as it turns out, he opted out so all the better. But the guy is still actually a very good major league pitcher who, had things played out normally, would have been a really good part of the Dodgers’ rotation. But it seems like he cost the Sox more than he gained them. This is not blame Bloom. I assume he knows better than I do what he could get. I just mean I curse the baseball gods.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 19, 2020 12:37:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't change Verdugo or Downs. I don't mind Wong, yet my point stands you couldn't get a pitcher from a team that has that many? Their AAA site likely is better than our whole staff. I would have went after a pitcher given our need over Wong. Like a said nothing huge, yet it seems like a miss opportunity. Where's the creative side like Tampa does shipping out a prospect to add another guy to the deal? Or a guy like Workman. One thing that galls me is essentially giving Price away. Yes, it was great to dump salary. And yes as it turns out, he opted out so all the better. But the guy is still actually a very good major league pitcher who, had things played out normally, would have been a really good part of the Dodgers’ rotation. But it seems like he cost the Sox more than he gained them. This is not blame Bloom. I assume he knows better than I do what he could get. I just mean I curse the baseball gods. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think Price did his market any favors on his way out of Boston. I think teams used that as leverage, in addition to the fact he was a clear overpay on day one. That's not to say we didn't need to do that at the time, we were just coming off a season where the entire staff made "I'm the ACE" t-shirts, and then proceeded to shart their pants on the regular, and Price was the shiniest object on the market, but it took extra to get him to even come to Boston, and then he never really enjoyed any of his time here. Was he a good pitcher? Sure, for the most part, when healthy he was a solid 2-3 starter here, and the Sox were never going to get someone to pay 100% of his Ace value contract for a solid 2-3, that they got anyone at all to take on half was pretty much a miracle. I often wonder how different it would have been had Price signed elsewhere and we still traded for Sale. How we could have used that money differently, including potentially giving Betts closer to what he wanted, but that ship has sailed, and here we are, about to watch a massacre orchestrated by some guys from Philly.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 12:45:51 GMT -5
If anyone is to blame for this current predicament, it certainly isn't Bloom or Roenicke. Bloom was hired on October 28th, by that time many, if not all of the wheels for the offseason were already set in motion. He then had to hit the ground running which likely meant the interim folks made most of the decisions while he tried to assess what he had both from a baseball ops perspective and from a talent perspective. I can't believe how short sighted, and petulant some folks are being on this matter. No one, and I mean NO ONE was going to swoop into that role and miraculously fix all that ailed the Sox in an offseason. Even if the management just threw money at the problem it wouldn't have gotten fixed in any sustainable fashion. Dave Dombrowski dismantled our farm system, overpaid for veterans like Pierce, Eovaldi, Price, and didn't trade Bradley Jr when his value was higher, electing to keep him, when his arbitration salary kept outpacing his performance offensively. He gave out a contract to Sale that in retrospect was ill advised given the starters health when the ink dried. We as Sox fans knew what we were getting when Dombrowski came aboard, one only needs to look over at Detroit, and the shambles he left that organization in to see the writing on the wall for us ultimately with him at the helm. That one world series win came with a price, and it's coming due right now. The only path forward is to do what we are doing now. Hunt for value, take our lumps, and hope a new offseason, coupled with what I think are changes needed in our scouting and baseball ops will bear fruit. Yes, this team sucks. It's likely to be the worst team fielded in Boston since the post Ruth seasons. That doesn't warrant an abrupt course change because of impatience. We've been through this before, it's what lead to the best manager we will ever have being fired, and one of the best GM's to leave for greener pastures. If the fans can't get their shit together and suck it up, we'll never have another talented individual stay in this organization and our grandkids will be talking about the curse of Bloom 86 years from now. How did DD destroy the system? If you look at the guys he traded only Moncada is good right now. Most guys he traded haven't done anything. At least we got a Championship out of it. The top pitcher he traded was what Buttrey who has 1.5 bwar over three years. Anderson and Allen looked like mistakes yet neither has been close to good in the majors. Beeks is -.1 bwar over three seasons. Swihart was a bust, Margot never developed into even a player as good as Bradley. The top three pitchers all had Tommy John's surgery. The one trade that hurt was the Sale trade, yet you got 15.3 bwar over three years and a Championship. DD also did a rather good job after the Sale trade of not trading anyone and rebuilding the system. Unlike with Detroit he didn't just keep trading guys. So we have Groome, Mata and Ward in the system. So how exactly is it DD fault? If ownership wanted to reset they should have never signed off on the Sale and Eovaldi deals. It's rather clear they did a 360 after last season and that's why we are currently at this point. Ownership ordered the Betts trade. It's what our ownership does. We could easily afford to have spent more money. Don't let our owners fool you, we don't have to reset. Heck given their revenue you can easily argue they Should be spending more to at least just below the highest tax line every year, that's still under 50% of revenue. There were tons of cheap guys on the market they could have brought in. Our GM wanted to try openers and crap like that. That's on him. Last year at the deadline it didn't make sense to mail it in. Wasn't it right after that Sale and Price went down? In my book 2020 was the first year where non-tendering Bradley actually started to make sense. Like how can you blame DD because of what Bloom did? You wanted him traded so Bloom doesn't give him a contract? Bloom seems to have misplayed the market on that one. Also don't give me he wasn't ready. He spent a full season getting ready for the off-season with Tampa. He knew the market and was ready. The lack of pitching depth is 100% on Bloom. Instead of going after more cheap free agent arms, he's cycled through waiver pickups. Maybe that's smart long-term, yet that was his plan. If he signed a bunch of guys that didn't work out, it happens. He made the choice to not go that route though.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2020 12:48:38 GMT -5
Verdugo is 24 with an .867 OPS and they got a very well-rounded 2B prospect, and a catcher with some potential, but likely a non-factor for 60 games of Mookie Betts and half the albatross of David Price's contract. I don't think you really deserved to get more back. I would have liked to somehow get Graterol as well, but he'd just be a nice bullpen piece unless the Red Sox just wanted to start him until they destroyed his arm. I wouldn't change Verdugo or Downs. I don't mind Wong, yet my point stands you couldn't get a pitcher from a team that has that many? Their AAA site likely is better than our whole staff. I would have went after a pitcher given our need over Wong. Like a said nothing huge, yet it seems like a miss opportunity. Where's the creative side like Tampa does shipping out a prospect to add another guy to the deal? Or a guy like Workman. My point exactly. I was disappointed they didn't get a pitcher in the deal as well. It was creative to get Graterol with the thought that he's the top tier pitching prospect they've been missing but once the medicals came back shooting down the idea of him being a starter, there was still a guy like Gray who would have been valuable to get and if took expanding the deal to do so, I would have done it. Of course, he might have and been rebuffed so who knows for sure, but yeah, adding a Workman to the deal might have made sense. Of course they didn't so they filled in the other area they're deficient in, upper level catching, in which they would have a catcher with upside (granted it's likely his K/BB issues don't allow him to be more than a bench guy most likely). Like you, I'd rather they got a pitcher.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2020 12:52:40 GMT -5
One thing that galls me is essentially giving Price away. Yes, it was great to dump salary. And yes as it turns out, he opted out so all the better. But the guy is still actually a very good major league pitcher who, had things played out normally, would have been a really good part of the Dodgers’ rotation. But it seems like he cost the Sox more than he gained them. This is not blame Bloom. I assume he knows better than I do what he could get. I just mean I curse the baseball gods. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think Price did his market any favors on his way out of Boston. I think teams used that as leverage, in addition to the fact he was a clear overpay on day one. That's not to say we didn't need to do that at the time, we were just coming off a season where the entire staff made "I'm the ACE" t-shirts, and then proceeded to shart their pants on the regular, and Price was the shiniest object on the market, but it took extra to get him to even come to Boston, and then he never really enjoyed any of his time here. Was he a good pitcher? Sure, for the most part, when healthy he was a solid 2-3 starter here, and the Sox were never going to get someone to pay 100% of his Ace value contract for a solid 2-3, that they got anyone at all to take on half was pretty much a miracle. I often wonder how different it would have been had Price signed elsewhere and we still traded for Sale. How we could have used that money differently, including potentially giving Betts closer to what he wanted, but that ship has sailed, and here we are, about to watch a massacre orchestrated by some guys from Philly. I don't wonder. Price was the key guy in the Sox winning the World Series (I'm talking just that World Series), so I have no regrets about his signing. I will say, that I think the Sox were eager to dump him so that the money would be there in a year or two to spend on a pitcher who is still in his prime and not moving away from it as Price has. Now, if a pitcher on the market materializes the Sox do have money to pounce, although I don't see Bloom as one who's going to invest that heavily in a pitcher on the FA market.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2020 12:58:43 GMT -5
If anyone is to blame for this current predicament, it certainly isn't Bloom or Roenicke. Bloom was hired on October 28th, by that time many, if not all of the wheels for the offseason were already set in motion. He then had to hit the ground running which likely meant the interim folks made most of the decisions while he tried to assess what he had both from a baseball ops perspective and from a talent perspective. I can't believe how short sighted, and petulant some folks are being on this matter. No one, and I mean NO ONE was going to swoop into that role and miraculously fix all that ailed the Sox in an offseason. Even if the management just threw money at the problem it wouldn't have gotten fixed in any sustainable fashion. Dave Dombrowski dismantled our farm system, overpaid for veterans like Pierce, Eovaldi, Price, and didn't trade Bradley Jr when his value was higher, electing to keep him, when his arbitration salary kept outpacing his performance offensively. He gave out a contract to Sale that in retrospect was ill advised given the starters health when the ink dried. We as Sox fans knew what we were getting when Dombrowski came aboard, one only needs to look over at Detroit, and the shambles he left that organization in to see the writing on the wall for us ultimately with him at the helm. That one world series win came with a price, and it's coming due right now. The only path forward is to do what we are doing now. Hunt for value, take our lumps, and hope a new offseason, coupled with what I think are changes needed in our scouting and baseball ops will bear fruit. Yes, this team sucks. It's likely to be the worst team fielded in Boston since the post Ruth seasons. That doesn't warrant an abrupt course change because of impatience. We've been through this before, it's what lead to the best manager we will ever have being fired, and one of the best GM's to leave for greener pastures. If the fans can't get their shit together and suck it up, we'll never have another talented individual stay in this organization and our grandkids will be talking about the curse of Bloom 86 years from now. How did DD destroy the system? If you look at the guys he traded only Moncada is good right now. Most guys he traded haven't done anything. At least we got a Championship out of it. The top pitcher he traded was what Buttrey who has 1.5 bwar over three years. Anderson and Allen looked like mistakes yet neither has been close to good in the majors. Beeks is -.1 bwar over three seasons. Swihart was a bust, Margot never developed into even a player as good as Bradley. The top three pitchers all had Tommy John's surgery. The one trade that hurt was the Sale trade, yet you got 15.3 bwar over three years and a Championship. DD also did a rather good job after the Sale trade of not trading anyone and rebuilding the system. Unlike with Detroit he didn't just keep trading guys. So we have Groome, Mata and Ward in the system. So how exactly is it DD fault? If ownership wanted to reset they should have never signed off on the Sale and Eovaldi deals. It's rather clear they did a 360 after last season and that's why we are currently at this point. Ownership ordered the Betts trade. It's what our ownership does. We could easily afford to have spent more money. Don't let our owners fool you, we don't have to reset. Heck given their revenue you can easily argue they Should be spending more to at least just below the highest tax line every year, that's still under 50% of revenue. There were tons of cheap guys on the market they could have brought in. Our GM wanted to try openers and crap like that. That's on him. Last year at the deadline it didn't make sense to mail it in. Wasn't it right after that Sale and Price went down? In my book 2020 was the first year where non-tendering Bradley actually started to make sense. Like how can you blame DD because of what Bloom did? You wanted him traded so Bloom doesn't give him a contract? Bloom seems to have misplayed the market on that one. Also don't give me he wasn't ready. He spent a full season getting ready for the off-season with Tampa. He knew the market and was ready. The lack of pitching depth is 100% on Bloom. Instead of going after more cheap free agent arms, he's cycled through waiver pickups. Maybe that's smart long-term, yet that was his plan. If he signed a bunch of guys that didn't work out, it happens. He made the choice to not go that route though. I don't disagree with anything you said. I'd say that Bloom probably assessed that with the money restrictions he had he couldn't do enough to impact the pitching that would have made them serious contenders so he figured he'd got the scrapheap route figuring if it didn't work, they'd suck bad enough to start from scratch and start rebuilding that terrible farm system, which is the long-term strategy you alluded to.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 13:00:48 GMT -5
I don't wonder. Price was the key guy in the Sox winning the World Series (I'm talking just that World Series), so I have no regrets about his signing. I will say, that I think the Sox were eager to dump him so that the money would be there in a year or two to spend on a pitcher who is still in his prime and not moving away from it as Price has. Now, if a pitcher on the market materializes the Sox do have money to pounce, although I don't see Bloom as one who's going to invest that heavily in a pitcher on the FA market. I agree with all this. The Price signing to me was like Schilling — or even Beckett. You get this guy for one thing. He does it, it is a success. But there is a cost. I am entirely on board dumping Price’s salary, and I get the reality that no one is likely to help the Sox by taking him AND giving some future rotation guy or something. I still can’t help pouting about it a little.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 13:09:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't change Verdugo or Downs. I don't mind Wong, yet my point stands you couldn't get a pitcher from a team that has that many? Their AAA site likely is better than our whole staff. I would have went after a pitcher given our need over Wong. Like a said nothing huge, yet it seems like a miss opportunity. Where's the creative side like Tampa does shipping out a prospect to add another guy to the deal? Or a guy like Workman. My point exactly. I was disappointed they didn't get a pitcher in the deal as well. It was creative to get Graterol with the thought that he's the top tier pitching prospect they've been missing but once the medicals came back shooting down the idea of him being a starter, there was still a guy like Gray who would have been valuable to get and if took expanding the deal to do so, I would have done it. Of course, he might have and been rebuffed so who knows for sure, but yeah, adding a Workman to the deal might have made sense. Of course they didn't so they filled in the other area they're deficient in, upper level catching, in which they would have a catcher with upside (granted it's likely his K/BB issues don't allow him to be more than a bench guy most likely). Like you, I'd rather they got a pitcher. I wanted at minimum a guy like Ferguson or Stripling. Ferguson is currently lights out and wasn't that good last year. I find it hard to believe you couldn't have got a guy like that. There was a lot of talk about him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 13:16:59 GMT -5
Let's add that with all-time bad pitching we don't use Johnson. Now they have DFA Shawaryn without even giving him a chance. Give the guy a chance, if he sucked and you did this I'm 100% fine. Yet the guy had a good track record and his strikeouts jumped when used as a reliever.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2020 13:20:38 GMT -5
My point exactly. I was disappointed they didn't get a pitcher in the deal as well. It was creative to get Graterol with the thought that he's the top tier pitching prospect they've been missing but once the medicals came back shooting down the idea of him being a starter, there was still a guy like Gray who would have been valuable to get and if took expanding the deal to do so, I would have done it. Of course, he might have and been rebuffed so who knows for sure, but yeah, adding a Workman to the deal might have made sense. Of course they didn't so they filled in the other area they're deficient in, upper level catching, in which they would have a catcher with upside (granted it's likely his K/BB issues don't allow him to be more than a bench guy most likely). Like you, I'd rather they got a pitcher. I wanted at minimum a guy like Ferguson or Stripling. Ferguson is currently lights out and wasn't that good last year. I find it hard to believe you couldn't have got a guy like that. There was a lot of talk about him. Yup, I was looking at those two as well. Caleb Ferguson pitched well in 2018 if I remember correctly. Also with Stripling, you can recall that they packaged Pedersen and a young prospect who tore the cover off the ball in A ball (his name escapes me) to the Angels to dump Pedersen's money. It's too bad they didn't expand the deal to take Pedersen back (to man CF for this lost season or RF with Verdugo in CF)) along with Stripling (or Ferguson if not Gray) and that kid in A ball in addition to the Sox adding Workman and some other minor league pieces (maybe even Barnes). And yes, they could have accomplished this by non-tendering JBJ (who could have wound up in LA platooning with Pollock).
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 13:23:14 GMT -5
Ok, I’m going to say something that may contradict positions I’ve taken before, but I contain multitudes. I think this still fits my long view, though.
I think the Sox should look into trading for a guy like Greinke or Cueto. They both have one year left of n their contracts, so the Sox would take contract off teams’ hands and hopefully get a decent prospect. This gives them a decent starter for one year next year not to contend but not to have to have Wener and Hart pitching.
I don’t know the math, but I am assuming they could suck up especually Cueto’s salary for a year.
How about, say, JBJ’s expiring contract for Cueto and a prospect?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 13:31:06 GMT -5
Ok, I’m going to say something that may contradict positions I’ve taken before, but I contain multitudes. I think this still fits my long view, though. I think the Sox should look into trading for a guy like Greinke or Cueto. They both have one year left of n their contracts, so the Sox would take contract off teams’ hands and hopefully get a decent prospect. This gives them a decent starter for one year next year not to contend but not to have to have Wener and Hart pitching. I don’t know the math, but I am assuming they could suck up especually Cueto’s salary for a year. How about, say, JBJ’s expiring contract for Cueto and a prospect? Now you're cooking lol. It would have to be a darn good prospect to take back the 26 million plus left on his deal. Yet those are exactly the type of deals I expect.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 13:40:53 GMT -5
Ok, I’m going to say something that may contradict positions I’ve taken before, but I contain multitudes. I think this still fits my long view, though. I think the Sox should look into trading for a guy like Greinke or Cueto. They both have one year left of n their contracts, so the Sox would take contract off teams’ hands and hopefully get a decent prospect. This gives them a decent starter for one year next year not to contend but not to have to have Wener and Hart pitching. I don’t know the math, but I am assuming they could suck up especually Cueto’s salary for a year. How about, say, JBJ’s expiring contract for Cueto and a prospect? Now you're cooking lol. It would have to be a darn good prospect to take back the 26 million plus left on his deal. Yet those are exactly the type of deals I expect. Now... I am assuming the Sox are a) not contending next year but b) have made room in the budget. In that case, why be $20+ million under the cap and sit on it for a year? Spend it on a guy who can keep teams under double-difits in runs for one year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2020 13:46:46 GMT -5
Opportunity cost, 21 million likely goes a long way next year. Now Cueto offers upside, yet tons of risk also. So for me you'd have to get a big time prospect.
For example you could take on Myers deal and sign a good pitcher for less than 21 million.
You are 100% right about using the money, you just need to pick the best most efficient way to use it.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2020 13:49:03 GMT -5
Opportunity cost, 21 million likely goes a long way next year. Now Cueto offers upside, yet tons of risk also. So for me you'd have to get a big time prospect. For example you could take on Myers deal and sign a good pitcher for less than 21 million. You are 100% right about using the money, you just need to pick the best most efficient way to use it. All true. I figure we can eat one year (since we will in one way or another). I’m not attached to this scenario. But I throw it out as one I accept and think is not implausible.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 19, 2020 14:25:27 GMT -5
Let's add that with all-time bad pitching we don't use Johnson. Now they have DFA Shawaryn without even giving him a chance. Give the guy a chance, if he sucked and you did this I'm 100% fine. Yet the guy had a good track record and his strikeouts jumped when used as a reliever. What do you mean they didn't give him a chance? He came up last year and was pretty bad. He had more runs against than innings pitched. Also, he was much worse out of the bullpen than as a starter. Yeah his strikeouts went up a little but everything else got WAY worse. You seem to have a habit of being fixated on what a guy was 2, 3, 4 years ago. Shawaryn's DFA has been coming since they sent him to the ATS with a bunch of non-40-man guys back on July 17. It's not like they didn't watch him in camp in the spring and in July. He was there. They saw him pitching in Pawtucket. It's the same thing with Gonsalves in the other thread. Gonsalves was barely a top 100 guy in 2017 and 2018, but last year he was only in the middle of the Twins' top 30 and he didn't even make the Mets' list in this year's handbook. He was eligible to be ranked on our top 60 and we declined to. At some point, the fact that a guy was seen as having some potential two or more years ago needs to give way to what he is now.
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