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SoxProspects Forum Hall of Fame Voting
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:18:20 GMT -5
Place your vote and lay out your reasons below.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:32:07 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Michael Cuddyer RF/1B | 2001 - 2015 | MIN, COL, NYM 2x All-Star 1x Silver Slugger NL Batting Title Michael Cuddyer WAR: 17.8 Black Ink: 4 Avg HOFer: 27 Gray Ink: 15 Avg HOFer: 144 HOF Monitor: 26 Likely HOFer: 100 JAWS: 16.6 Avg HOF RF: 57.2 Michael Cuddyer was drafted by the Minnesota Twins with the 9th overall pick of the 1997 draft but did not have a 1+ WAR season in the majors until 2006. However, from then on he was a solid contributor for the Twins and later the Colorado Rockies. He was especially effective against lefties; from 2006 to 2014, he had the 7th best OPS of anyone with at least 1200 PA against left-handed pitchers in that span. He was not honored until late in his career, making his first All-Star Game in his final season with the Twins and winning the National League batting title in his age-34 season in Colorado. Cuddyer is one of 27 players to hit for the cycle multiple times in their career, and just one of 3 players (joining John Olerud and Bob Watson) to do it in both the American and National League.
This is Cuddyer's first year on the Baseball Hall of Fame ballot. He was inducted into the Minnesota Twins Hall of Fame in 2017.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:32:20 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
LaTroy Hawkins P | 1995 - 2015 | MIN, CHC, SFG, BAL, COL, HOU, NYY, MIL, LAA, NYM, TOR LaTroy Hawkins WAR: 17.8 Better than 0.4% of HOFers Black Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 6 Better than 0.9% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 36.0 Better than 3.0% of HOFers JAWS: 16.98 Better than 0.0% of HOFers at RP LaTroy Hawkins spent his first couple of years struggling as a starter before finding his place in the major leagues as a setup man. His peak season by WAR was 2003 with the Twins, when he recorded a career-high 28 holds. Hawkins was good at keeping batters from getting on base in his peak; among pitchers with 400 games in relief from 2002 to 2009, Hawkins had the 10th-lowest OBP allowed in that span. Hawkins is well-known for being a journeyman, finishing as one of 22 players in major league history to play for at least 11 franchises in his career. His longevity also stands out when you look at his career. He is the the most recent pitcher to reach the 1,000 games mark. Hawkins is the godfather of current NFL superstar Patrick Mahomes.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:32:46 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Nick Swisher | 2004 - 2015 | OAK, CHW, NYY, CLE, ATL 1x All-Star 2009 World Series Nick Swisher WAR: 21.5 Better than 0.4% of HOFers Black Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 0.0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers JAWS: 22.45 Better than 3.7% of HOFers at RF Nick Swisher was the first round pick of the 2002 Oakland Athletics draft that was immortalized by Michael Lewis' recounting in Moneyball. He had a promising start with Oakland, earning a handful of points in the 2005 NL Rookie of the Year voting behind a 21-HR season. While he never had a season that truly rose above the others, he was consistent, being one of 25 players to have 5 seasons of 3.5 Wins Above Replacement from 2006 to 2013.
Of the 5 franchises Swisher played for, he accrued the most WAR with the Yankees, where he earned his only World Series title (2009) and his only All-Star Game appearance (2010). That World Series was one of just 2 postseason series where Swisher provided positive Championship Win Probability Added, propelled by a Game 3 home run off of J.A. Happ. This is Swisher's first year on the Hall of Fame ballot.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:33:00 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Billy Wagner P | 1995 - 2010 | HOU, PHI, NYM, BOS, ATL 7x All-Star Rolaids Relief Billy Wagner WAR: 27.7 Better than 2.1% of HOFers Black Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 31 Better than 1.7% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 107.0 Better than 28.9% of HOFers JAWS: 23.73 Better than 25.0% of HOFers at RP This marks Billy Wagner's 6th year on the Hall of Fame ballot. After staying around the 10% mark for the first years of eligibility, he got a marked jump to 31.7% of the vote last year. Wagner does not have the same level of volume stats compared to recently inducted relievers Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman, but he does fare well when you look at rate stats.
Among all players in MLB history with at least 800 innings pitched, Billy Wagner's 33.2% strikeout percentage is the highest. Wagner's career 0.998 WHIP is 2nd lowest among players with 800 IP, only trailing HOFer Addie Joss and slightly ahead of 3rd place, the aforementioned Mariano Rivera.
One final note: while Wagner is only 6th place on the all-time saves list, he is 2nd among left-handed pitchers (2 saves short of John Franco). Wagner broke his right arm when playing football at 7 years old, which was the impetus for his learning to throw left-handed.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:33:14 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
A.J. Burnett P | 1999 - 2015 | FLA, TOR, NYY, PIT, PHI 1x All-Star 2009 World Series A.J. Burnett WAR: 28.8 Better than 3.0% of HOFers Black Ink: 9 Better than 26.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 61 Better than 9.8% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 29.0 Better than 1.7% of HOFers JAWS: 25.26 Better than 0.0% of HOFers at P A.J. Burnett threw a no-hitter against the San Diego Padres in 2001, although that came with 9 walks issued, the second most of any no-hitter in MLB history. In 2002, he led the major leagues with 5 shutouts. Unfortunately, he had to undergo Tommy John surgery in 2003 and miss his chance to contribute to the Florida Marlins' World Series win.
Burnett would go on to participate in the 2009 New York Yankees World Series run, getting a winning decision in his Game 2 WS start against the Phillies. His only All-Star Game appearance came in his final major league season in 2015 as a Pittsburgh Pirate.
In his peak from 2001 to 2009, his batting average against was .235, 8th-best among the 92 pitchers with 1000 IP in that span.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:33:31 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Shane Victorino OF | 2003 - 2015 | SDP, PHI, LAD, BOS, LAA 2x All-Star 2x World Series 4x Gold Glove Shane Victorino WAR: 31.5 Better than 4.3% of HOFers Black Ink: 2 Better than 9.8% of HOFers Gray Ink: 26 Better than 1.3% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 31.5 Better than 2.1% of HOFers JAWS: 30.20 Better than 5.3% of HOFers at CF This is the "Flyin' Hawaiian"'s first year on the Hall of Fame ballot. Victorino was drafted by the Dodgers and made his MLB debut with the Padres, but he spent the majority of his career at his second stop of the Philadelphia Phillies. From 2006 to 2013, Victorino had the 5th-most WAR of any primary outfielder in MLB, in contention with big names like Torii Hunter and Ichiro Suzuki in that span.
In 2008, he got the chance to face off against the team that drafted him in the NLCS and delivered with a pivotal game-tying 8th inning home run in Game 4 that would put the Dodgers in a 3-1 series deficit. Victorino would go on to get his first World Series ring as the 2008 Phillies took care of the Rays. Extra-base hits were a strong suit for Victorino in this period; he hit 47 triples from 2008 to 2011, only matched by Jose Reyes in that span.
Victorino spent most of his final years with the Boston Red Sox. In the 2013 World Series run, he provided the the go-ahead grand slam in Game 6 of the ALCS that would secure Boston's World Series berth, as well as the first score of Game 6 of the 2013 World Series with a 3-run double
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:33:44 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Aramis Ramirez 3B | 1998 - 2015 | PIT, CHC, MIL 3x All-Star Silver Slugger Aramis Ramirez WAR: 32.4 Better than 4.7% of HOFers Black Ink: 2 Better than 9.8% of HOFers Gray Ink: 53 Better than 8.1% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 85.0 Better than 15.7% of HOFers JAWS: 30.94 Better than 6.7% of HOFers at 3B Aramis Ramirez is a three-time All-Star third baseman who spent 18 years in MLB. Ramirez was traded from the Pirates to the Cubs in 2003 where he was a key part of that team's Postseason run, posting an .805 OPS in Chicago after the trade and a .956 OPS in the 2003 Postseason.
Ramirez experienced a late career resurgence in Milwaukee, where, at age-34, he posted 5.6 WAR and came in 9th in MVP voting in 2012.
In total, Ramirez spent 18 years in the league and played for three different teams, all of which were in the NL Central. Since divisions were established, only Brian Downing spent more time in the league, stayed in one division his entire career, and played for at least three teams.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:34:12 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Barry Zito P | 2000 - 2015 | OAK, SFG Cy Young 3x All-Star 2012 World Series Barry Zito WAR: 31.9 Better than 4.3% of HOFers Black Ink: 8 Better than 23.4% of HOFers Gray Ink: 88 Better than 17.9% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 48.0 Better than 4.7% of HOFers JAWS: 31.27 Better than 1.5% of HOFers at P See player page on Baseball-Reference.com
Barry Zito is in his first year on the ballot and given he has yet to tally a vote in the Not Mr. Tibbs HOF vote tracker he is likely in his last year on the ballot as well. Zito managed a 165-143 record while playing the entirety of his career in the Bay Area for the A's and the Giants. In 2002, he headed a formidable A's staff along with Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder and won the AL Cy Young award after going 23-5 with a 2.75 ERA and a close third place finish in AL Pitching WAR. Zito and Vida Blue are the only two pitchers to reach 60 career wins for both the Athletics' and the Giants' franchises.
He's also known for his diverse interests, especially his music career. He has recorded an album as a guitar player and songwriter and finished fourth on season 3 of the Masked Singer.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:34:37 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Dan Haren P | 2003 - 2015 | STL, OAK, ARI, LAA, WSN, LAD, CHC, MIA 3x All-Star Dan Haren WAR: 35.1 Better than 6.4% of HOFers Black Ink: 3 Better than 12.8% of HOFers Gray Ink: 94 Better than 20.0% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 30.0 Better than 1.7% of HOFers JAWS: 34.14 Better than 3.1% of HOFers at P Dan Haren was drafted and made his MLB debut with the St. Louis Cardinals, but his peak came in his time with the Oakland Athletics and Arizona Diamondbacks, which included a stretch of 3 consecutive All-Star Game selections. He was known for his combined ability of control and strikeouts, leading the league in strikeout to walk ratio 3 times and finishing with a career SO/BB ratio above 4, joining Pedro Martinez, Clayton Kershaw, Max Scherzer & Curt Schilling as the only live-ball era pitchers with at least 2000 IP to accomplish that. He was also a relatively durable pitcher, making 30 starts in 11 different seasons, one of just 5 pitchers to do that since Haren's debut season of 2003.
As a final note, Haren was also an occasional contributor on offense, finishing with a career positive batting WAR and the most recent pitcher to record 4 hits in a game. This is Haren's first year of eligibility on the HOF ballot.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:34:52 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Omar Vizquel SS/3B | 1989 - 2012 | SEA, CLE, SFG, TEX, CHW, TOR 3x All-Star 11x Gold Glove Omar Vizquel WAR: 45.6 Better than 17.0% of HOFers Black Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 25 Better than 1.3% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 119.5 Better than 35.7% of HOFers JAWS: 36.18 Better than 4.2% of HOFers at SS This is Omar Vizquel's 4th year on the ballot. He's risen in vote share each year, reaching 52.6% of the vote in the last cycle. During his career, he had a reputation as an excellent defender, earning 11 Gold Gloves which is second only to HOFer Ozzie Smith among shortstops. By advanced metrics, he doesn't stand out quite to that extent, ranking 18th among primary shortstops in Fielding Runs which measures the number of runs better or worse than average the player was for all fielding.
By overall Wins Above Replacement, he ranks 27th among primary shortstops, dragged down by his offense which was below-average in an especially high-scoring environment that the 1990s were. However, he did reach statistical milestones at shortstop, which contributes to his HOF Monitor score approaching 120, a measurement in which a score of 100 indicates a good possibility of eventually being inducted. In this voting cycle, a domestic violence allegation against Vizquel has surfaced, which may be considered by some voters.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:35:05 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Torii Hunter OF | 1997 - 2015 | MIN, LAA, DET 5x All-Star 9x Gold Glove 2x Silver Slugger Torii Hunter WAR: 50.7 Better than 26.8% of HOFers Black Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 29 Better than 1.3% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 58.0 Better than 6.0% of HOFers JAWS: 40.72 Better than 26.3% of HOFers at CF Torii Hunter makes his debut on the Hall of Fame ballot, and is in many baseball fans' memories for his amazing catches in Minnesota's center field, gaining a reputation that propelled him to 9 consecutive Gold Glove awards from 2001 to 2009. In that span, he had the 2nd-most Fielding Runs among primary centerfielders, only trailing fellow ballot member Andruw Jones. Hunter's first All-Star Game appearance was in 2002, which produced the highlight of his robbery of a potential Barry Bonds home run.
Hunter's offense saw its peak late in his career, with career high in batting average and OPS+ reached in his 2012 season with the Angels. Even so, among HOF centerfielders, Hunter's career OPS+ is only better than Lloyd Waner and Max Carey.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:35:19 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Jeff Kent 2B/3B/1B | 1992 - 2008 | NYM, TOR, CLE, SFG, HOU, LAD MVP 5x All-Star 4x Silver Slugger Jeff Kent WAR: 55.4 Better than 34.0% of HOFers Black Ink: 0 Better than 0.0% of HOFers Gray Ink: 71 Better than 11.9% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 122.5 Better than 38.7% of HOFers JAWS: 45.60 Better than 35.0% of HOFers at 2B Jeff Kent enters his 8th year on the ballot. After hovering in the teens for most of his eligibility, he experienced a jump to 27.5% last year. Kent was an average starter for most of the 1990s, not finding his peak performance until joining the San Francisco Giants in 1997. During his 6-year Giants tenure he finished in the top 10 of MVP voting 4 times, including winning the NL MVP in 2000 over his teammate Barry Bonds.
Kent provided a lot of offensive value from a traditionally weaker position of second base. Kent hit 351 of his home runs as a second baseman, the record holder by a decent amount (2nd place is Robinson Cano, currently having hit 315 HR from that position). MVP voters also loved Kent's RBI production, and among primary 2nd basemen, Kent owns the top 3 NL RBI seasons in the expansion era.
Kent was not a top defender at the position, only surpassing 1.0 defensive WAR in his 1997 season. That being said, his total value was the best among 2nd basemen for a time. From 1997-2005, Kent recorded 42 WAR, with the next closest 2nd baseman being Craig Biggio with 32 WAR in that time span.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:35:36 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Andy Pettitte P | 1995 - 2013 | NYY, HOU 3x All-Star 5x World Series ALCS MVP Andy Pettitte WAR: 60.2 Better than 43.8% of HOFers Black Ink: 7 Better than 21.3% of HOFers Gray Ink: 103 Better than 22.6% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 128.0 Better than 42.1% of HOFers JAWS: 47.16 Better than 23.1% of HOFers at P This year marks Pettitte's 3rd year on the ballot, finishing with 11.3% of the vote last year. Pettitte holds the record for most postseason innings pitched and pitcher wins, en route to helping the New York Yankees in 5 different title runs during his career. He was also clutch in those moments, recording more wins in postseason series clinchers than anyone else and 4th all-time in postseason win probability added among pitchers, only trailing John Smoltz, fellow nominee Curt Schilling, and teammate Mariano Rivera.
He was not recognized as often for his regular season production, only receiving one top-3 finish in Cy Young Award voting during his career. From 1995 to 2013, among the 20 pitchers who threw 2500 innings in that span, Pettitte's adjusted ERA+ is 12th. One point in his favor was his ability to limit home runs, finishing with the best HR/9 ratio in 1997 and 8 other top-10 seasons in that category.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:36:03 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Mark Buehrle P | 2000 - 2015 | CHW, MIA, TOR 5x All-Star 2005 World Series 4x Gold Glove Mark Buehrle WAR: 59.1 Better than 40.9% of HOFers Black Ink: 12 Better than 33.2% of HOFers Gray Ink: 116 Better than 26.4% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 51.5 Better than 5.1% of HOFers JAWS: 47.43 Better than 23.1% of HOFers at P This year is Mark Buehrle's debut on the Hall of Fame ballot. Buehrle's durability was a common observation on his career, making 30 starts in all but 1 of his 16 seasons in the major leagues, more than any other pitcher in the 21st century. He recorded a no-hitter in 2007 and a perfect game in 2009, making him one of 35 pitchers in MLB history with multiple no-hitters.
In Buehrle's peak years of 2001 to 2009, he accumulated 40.7 WAR, 6th among pitchers in that era. In his entire career, 2005 was the only season Buehrle received any Cy Young votes (he finished in 5th place).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 11:36:20 GMT -5
HOF Candidate Spotlight
Tim Hudson P | 1999 - 2015 | OAK, ATL, SFG 4x All-Star 2014 World Series Tim Hudson WAR: 57.9 Better than 39.6% of HOFers Black Ink: 11 Better than 30.6% of HOFers Gray Ink: 143 Better than 40.0% of HOFers HOF Monitor: 66.0 Better than 8.1% of HOFers JAWS: 48.07 Better than 24.6% of HOFers at P This is Tim Hudson's first year on the Hall of Fame ballot. Hudson started his career strong during his Athletics tenure, with 3 top-6 Cy Young Award finishes in his first 5 seasons. He led the American League in wins with 20 in 2000, and finished 2nd in the AL in ERA in 2003. He spent more years overall with the Braves and Giants but in that time he only had two more All-Star appearances and one 4th-place Cy Young finish in 2010. He started 2 games in the 2014 World Series for the Giants, resulting in his only World Series win in his career.
Hudson accumulated 56.5 pitching Wins Above Replacement in his career, only trailing Roy Halladay, Randy Johnson and Mark Buehrle in that span. By adjusted ERA+, looking at his best years of 1999-2010, Hudson finished in 8th place among players with 1500 IP in that span.
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Post by incandenza on Jan 12, 2021 12:28:56 GMT -5
Voted for Bonds, Clemens, Rolen, Jones, Helton, Manny, Sheffield, and Abreu, in order of deservingness.
The top 4 are no-brainers for me. The next four are not difficult.
Then there are unusually many borderline cases. I'm really tempted on Sosa, Pettitte, and Hudson. On another day I might would vote for any of the three. I'm just not sure Sosa would be quite good enough without the steroids, and while I'm far from a moralist about the steroid era he and McGwire are the closest things to embodying that era without offering much outside of the juiced aspects of their games, so I'm not sure that's really worthy of a HoF plaque.
I went back and forth on both Andy Pettitte and Tim Hudson. If I had an actual ballot I might vote for Hudson just to keep him from falling off the ballot next season, as I think he's worth sustained consideration. It's a pretty underrated career with a solid peak. [ADD: Okay, I voted for Hudson. I feel like at least one person should!]
Pettitte has the cumulative stats, but it's more a function of sustained adequacy and longevity. He only had back-to-back 4 fWAR seasons once, in '96-'97. And the career 3.85 ERA really reflects that all around solidness. But I certainly wouldn't complain if he got voted in.
And then there's Schilling. I've argued for years he should be voted in. But then insurrections stormed the Capitol, and scrawled 'murder the media' on a doorway, and brought a literal gallows with them... And I just can't bring myself to support the guy who shared the "Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required." image (and who, most recently, blamed antifa for the insurrectionist attack). I really hate bringing moral or political judgement into Hall of Fame consideration, and would only do so in extreme cases, but as far as I'm concerned Schilling now counts as an extreme case.
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Post by orion09 on Jan 12, 2021 12:31:25 GMT -5
May be better to hide results until you've voted, if that's possible, so as not to influence other voters
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 12, 2021 12:55:01 GMT -5
May be better to hide results until you've voted, if that's possible, so as not to influence other voters Too late to change, but my thought was that I wanted people to be able to change their votes before the poll locks, so might as well make it visible to start. But I get your point.
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Post by manfred on Jan 12, 2021 14:01:19 GMT -5
Bonds, Clemens, Jones, Manny, Schilling.
Not proud.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,495
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Post by shagworthy on Jan 12, 2021 15:07:31 GMT -5
Bonds, Clemens, Buehrle, Helton, Jones, and Wagner.
In my mind, Buehrle in any other division during his prime would have gotten more recognition, he was a horse, who worked fast, a left handed Maddux, and he was a joy to watch. He still won 15 games in his last year, with a sub 4 ERA in the AL East, and with 4 CG, even though it was the first season since 2000 where he finished with under 200ip. 15 years with > 200ip, a guy who you could always count on to get the job done. Jones in his youth was one of the most exciting players on both sides of the ball, Helton gets too much flack for playing in Colorado, he still had to hit the ball, and Wagner is probably the most underrated closer of his generation.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Jan 12, 2021 15:13:55 GMT -5
Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Pettite, Wagner, Ramirez, Helton, Rolen, Kent, Jones. The league will have an asterisk on a number of these players in some cases. However, they are hall of famer's good bad or indifferent.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 12, 2021 16:14:42 GMT -5
I voted for Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Rolen, Kent, Wagner, Jones, Vizquel, Helton, and Sheffield. I have never dislike a ballot as much as this one. Where's an obvious overlooked HOFer like Fred McGriff when you need him? I relented and voted for steroid users such as Bonds and Clemens, who were HOFers with or without the steroids. I used that to separate them from Sosa, but I might rethink that one. I don't think the steroids were the only thing to get him to 600 HRs. I'm sure his corked bat helped. Manny had the steroids issue, too, but what's different was that he cheated AFTER the testing was put in place - twice! Sheffield was involved, but who knows if he was telling the truth that it was unknowingly? Helton has the Colorado thing going against him, but his numbers are so overwhelming in Colorado that his overall numbers were up there. He was their franchise player for quite awhile and Colorado hasn't had many of those. Of course, he had his DUI issues multiple times I believe. Then there's the character clause issue. Vizquel used violence against his wife, which makes me not want to vote for him. If I look at the player, he was a great defensive SS who contributed offensively in an Ozzie Smith sort of way. Andruw Jones was great defensively and hit over 400 homers, a key part of a Braves dynasty that won 14 straight divisions. He has his domestic problems as well. I enjoyed Curt Schilling the ballplayer. He was a HOF caliber pitcher, no question about it. So what standard to employ for character? Well, I can say Curt Schilling never personally murdered anybody, so there's that. I never minded the political disagreements and opinions when he was stumping for George W Bush. Difference of opinion? Ok. But this? !! It is so abhorrent to me, I really don't want him in at this point, which is a damn shame as it conflicts with some of the greatest memories I've had of the 2004 Red Sox with him a big part of that (and 2007, too). So if I use the loosest standard possible - that he didn't murder anybody physically, I guess I cast a vote for Curt Schilling, the ballplayer. Wouldn't take much for anybody to convince me NOT to consider voting for him as everything he has done the past few years makes my skin crawl. Rolen and Kent are the only two I'm really very comfortable casting a vote for. I think Billy Wagner was an excellent closer, among the best during his time. I'd put him in but understand others preferring Buehrle and Pettite, who are starters that are just below the line of HOFer, although I should reconsider Pettite as he was the key pitcher in a Yankees dynasty but somehow a lot of those players, other than Jeter and Rivera, have surprisingly dropped off the ballot quickly. Jeez, I only voted for 9 and feel good about 2 of the candidates. And I feel dirty for voting for Schilling and annoyed with my Vizquel vote, crossed lines with the cheater votes I never thought I'd cast, and voted for some marginal HOF talent. Yucky ballot. At least next year Big Papi is on the ballot! I wish Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Fred McGriff, Dick Allen, Gil Hodges, Buck O'Neill, and Bobby Grich were on the ballot.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,771
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Post by mobaz on Jan 12, 2021 18:18:17 GMT -5
Bonds, Clemens, AJones, Helton, Rolen, Manny, Sheff.
Game ignored the 'roids as long as the publicity was good. Gimme the best players, and I'll hold my nose.
Rolen and Jones were defensive studs with some solid offensive seasons. Helton was a top 1B for most of his career.
Schill deserves to be in, but #$@% that guy. Who would have thought Roger would end up the less despicable former Sox.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 13, 2021 0:44:37 GMT -5
I voted for Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Rolen, Kent, Wagner, Jones, Vizquel, Helton, and Sheffield. I have never dislike a ballot as much as this one. Where's an obvious overlooked HOFer like Fred McGriff when you need him? I relented and voted for steroid users such as Bonds and Clemens, who were HOFers with or without the steroids. I used that to separate them from Sosa, but I might rethink that one. I don't think the steroids were the only thing to get him to 600 HRs. I'm sure his corked bat helped. Manny had the steroids issue, too, but what's different was that he cheated AFTER the testing was put in place - twice! Sheffield was involved, but who knows if he was telling the truth that it was unknowingly? Helton has the Colorado thing going against him, but his numbers are so overwhelming in Colorado that his overall numbers were up there. He was their franchise player for quite awhile and Colorado hasn't had many of those. Of course, he had his DUI issues multiple times I believe. Then there's the character clause issue. Vizquel used violence against his wife, which makes me not want to vote for him. If I look at the player, he was a great defensive SS who contributed offensively in an Ozzie Smith sort of way. Andruw Jones was great defensively and hit over 400 homers, a key part of a Braves dynasty that won 14 straight divisions. He has his domestic problems as well. I enjoyed Curt Schilling the ballplayer. He was a HOF caliber pitcher, no question about it. So what standard to employ for character? Well, I can say Curt Schilling never personally murdered anybody, so there's that. I never minded the political disagreements and opinions when he was stumping for George W Bush. Difference of opinion? Ok. But this? !! It is so abhorrent to me, I really don't want him in at this point, which is a damn shame as it conflicts with some of the greatest memories I've had of the 2004 Red Sox with him a big part of that (and 2007, too). So if I use the loosest standard possible - that he didn't murder anybody physically, I guess I cast a vote for Curt Schilling, the ballplayer. Wouldn't take much for anybody to convince me NOT to consider voting for him as everything he has done the past few years makes my skin crawl. Rolen and Kent are the only two I'm really very comfortable casting a vote for. I think Billy Wagner was an excellent closer, among the best during his time. I'd put him in but understand others preferring Buehrle and Pettite, who are starters that are just below the line of HOFer, although I should reconsider Pettite as he was the key pitcher in a Yankees dynasty but somehow a lot of those players, other than Jeter and Rivera, have surprisingly dropped off the ballot quickly. Jeez, I only voted for 9 and feel good about 2 of the candidates. And I feel dirty for voting for Schilling and annoyed with my Vizquel vote, crossed lines with the cheater votes I never thought I'd cast, and voted for some marginal HOF talent. Yucky ballot. At least next year Big Papi is on the ballot! I wish Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Fred McGriff, Dick Allen, Gil Hodges, Buck O'Neill, and Bobby Grich were on the ballot. I just read what Curt Schilling wrote about the attack on the Capitol. F him! While his numbers are deserving, he's not. Condoning that non-sensical violence is absolutely disgusting! What a despicable person he has become. I might be be convinced on a case for the HOF for Tim Hudson or Mark Buehrle (I liked the Orel Hershiser comparisons - he is borderline HOF, but in 1988 he was sure something), instead, although there really isn't any great slam dunk candidates. Better next year when Ichiro and Big Papi are eligible. Now those two are definite HOFers. At this point, it's unlikely there'll be much of a ceremony this summer at the HOF. Why not wait until summer of 2022? Maybe by then the vaccine will work as hoped and they can hold a nice ceremony for the players that were voted in last year and whoever gets in next year. I'm coming to the conclusion that nobody is going to get voted in this year. And maybe that's the way it should be. If there's ever a year for that, this would be it.
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