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Post by James Dunne on Jan 28, 2022 10:01:49 GMT -5
He does not have an interesting case because he was a far-below HOF standard player and he clearly does not make up for that in other ways. He probably has the least interesting case of everyone on the 2022 ballot, in fact. He wasn't a good enough player and he's apparently a worse person.
I hope Jose Mesa gets to call him every year to tell him that he didn't make the Hall.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 28, 2022 10:07:19 GMT -5
I think a lot of us are assuming that Vizquel's drop from 49.1% to 23.9% this year was because of the domestic violence and sexual harassment allegations (the latter of which happened while he was an employee of a team, by the way, so not entirely "off-field"), and certainly a lot of it was, but I wonder how much of that was from 10-player voters who took him off to add Ortiz and potentially A-Rod, given that nobody had come off the ballot (other than for having <5%) from last year to this year. We'll probably find out next year, with Ortiz getting in, Clemens, Bonds, Schilling, and Sosa falling off, and Beltran representing the only legitimate candidate joining the ballot.
Consider that 8 returning players on the ballot this year had gotten 40% of the vote, whereas next year the number will be 5.
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Post by orion09 on Jan 28, 2022 10:24:31 GMT -5
It’s a fair point. He had a year-over-year trend up (37%, 42.8%, 52.6%), then a small drop after the first round of abuse allegations, though they came out after many voters had already finalized their ballots (49.1%), then a steep dropoff this year after the new harassment allegations (23.9%), some of which could also be space issues. I guess we’ll find over the next few years, since as you point out there are very few new compelling candidates.
The year-over-year trend before the allegations is similar to a lot of guys who either squeaked in on the last ballot or just missed, which is why I think he is (or was, if you prefer) a realistic candidate for the Veteran’s Committee.
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Post by incandenza on Jan 28, 2022 12:21:43 GMT -5
He does not have an interesting case because he was a far-below HOF standard player and he clearly does not make up for that in other ways. He probably has the least interesting case of everyone on the 2022 ballot, in fact. He wasn't a good enough player and he's apparently a worse person. I hope Jose Mesa gets to call him every year to tell him that he didn't make the Hall. Completely setting aside the personal stuff... I wouldn't have voted for Vizquel. But I remember him as the most enjoyable defensive shortstop to watch of his generation. If someone wanted to vote him in on those grounds I wouldn't really have a problem with it.
I certainly think he had a more interesting case than, say, Joe Nathan or AJ Pierzynski.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 28, 2022 13:06:44 GMT -5
AJ Pierzynski has been working in baseball after like 25 years despite the fact everyone seems to hate him. Pretty legendary when you think about it.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 28, 2022 17:55:21 GMT -5
AJ Pierzynski has been working in baseball after like 25 years despite the fact everyone seems to hate him. Pretty legendary when you think about it. Eh, I think it's telling he's working as a broadcaster and not with a team.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 30, 2022 15:03:42 GMT -5
Craziest on that list is Lefty Grove only getting 5.3% of the vote.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 30, 2022 16:28:24 GMT -5
Craziest on that list is Lefty Grove only getting 5.3% of the vote. Grove was still active and a ways away from 300 wins at that point. He was coming off a season where he had resurrected his career after arm problems gave him a John Lackey like 6.5 ERA in his first season with the Red Sox.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 30, 2022 16:31:50 GMT -5
Craziest on that list is Lefty Grove only getting 5.3% of the vote. Grove was still active and a ways away from 300 wins at that point. He was coming off a season where he had resurrected his career after arm problems gave him a John Lackey like 6.5 ERA in his first season with the Red Sox. Ah, I didn't realize that active players were getting voted on.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jan 30, 2022 17:07:40 GMT -5
They also only had 10 votes for any player from the 20th century, note that the veterans committee picked the 19th century players. As the b-ref page shows, almost all people who got votes that year ended up in the hall of fame so many great players were left on the outside looking in..
This makes for a fun question, who would you have picked as the first 10? I would have voted for Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Speaker, Lajoie as the batters and Young, Johnson, Alexander (surprised he was so low), Mathewson as the pitchers.
I'd have one more vote but to me there isn't an obvious pick that wasn't still active, so I might go Gehrig or Hornsby. Eddie Collins perhaps, but I feel like he's a sabermetric darling given his WAR plays up due to his position. So I don't think if I were voting at the time I would have put him in my top 10.
The veterans vote was even more crazy - too many players so no one got in. Cap Anson would have been my 10th above if he qualified.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,410
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Post by radiohix on Feb 17, 2023 15:25:43 GMT -5
Anytime I get the chance to post this story, I'll do it 😀
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