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Post by taiwansox on Dec 2, 2021 1:25:16 GMT -5
Maybe we can still sign Verlander? His contract looks too reasonable after Scherzer’s contract
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 2, 2021 1:26:13 GMT -5
Maybe we can still sign Verlander? His contract looks too reasonable after Scherzer’s contract Huh? He re-signed with the Astros for 2 years and 50 million.
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Post by taiwansox on Dec 2, 2021 1:29:49 GMT -5
Maybe we can still sign Verlander? His contract looks too reasonable after Scherzer’s contract Huh? He re-signed with the Astros for 2 years and 50 million. His contract isn’t official for some reason so it’s still in limbo. I don’t know why, but it’s already been two weeks and didn’t make the deadline before the lockout
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 2, 2021 2:31:54 GMT -5
Idk, last year we made the ALCS in a year we were supposed to be a .500ish rebuilding team, and I give Bloom's acquisitions a lot of credit for that. You can point to guys like Perez and Richards that weren't good, but there were also guys like Renfroe and Hernandez who were really valuable. Not every one of these guys is going to hit, but they also don't have to. Last year we had Whitlock with 3 WAR making league minimum out of rule 5, Kiké with 5 WAR on a 2/14 deal, Renfroe with 2-2.5 WAR making 3.1 million, Pivetta putting up 2.5 WAR while making peanuts in his first full season in town, etc.. These pickups were plenty to offset the rough deals, like Richards with ~.5 WAR for 10 million or Marwin with ~-0.7 for 3 million. I’m only talking about the pitching. The FAs last year did not help. The gather-lots-of-lottery-ticket plan failed. This year has higher upside but clear risk as well. If it doesn’t work, can we at least agree they will need to get a real pitcher in Eovaldi’s slot next off season, not a retread? The SP FAs were bad last year, for sure. I wouldn't really call the plan as a whole a failure, though, since a big objective was staying under the luxury tax threshold and the pitching staff performed pretty well on the whole (7th in the AL in ERA despite terrible defense). Even Perez had a good start to the year, and Richards was looking like he'd be worth the contract until the league came for his Spider Tack. Pivetta was also a solid contributor too. He wasn't an FA, but it was his first full year after being acquired and he was also considered a reclamation project.
Definitely agree we need to aim high next off season, though, and doubly so if Sale has a good year and opts out.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 2, 2021 2:47:17 GMT -5
If Paxton is not playing, how is his $10 million negatively affecting the team? If Wacha is atrocious, yes, it could hurt the team a little in the short term. The benefit of having good SP depth, though, is you're not forced to roll with him if he's awful. You just reshuffle the rotation, move him to a long role in the pen, and let him eat some innings there when the game's not on the line. Without depth, you end up in a 2021 Danny Santana situation. It hurts because they could have used it on a guy not coming back from TJ? Or used it as half of ERod’s first year. You realize the players have to agree to the contracts too, right? You can't say what the Red Sox could or could not have done if you don't even acknowledge that they are not the only actors in this scenario. I'm sure they would've loved to have ERod back. He clearly wanted to move on. You should do the same.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 2, 2021 5:42:18 GMT -5
Not to be a Debbie Downer here but a recent death by a teen hockey player with similar circumstances to ERod including medical clearance to play, kind of sent a shock wave through sports.
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Post by manfred on Dec 2, 2021 9:20:28 GMT -5
It hurts because they could have used it on a guy not coming back from TJ? Or used it as half of ERod’s first year. You realize the players have to agree to the contracts too, right? You can't say what the Red Sox could or could not have done if you don't even acknowledge that they are not the only actors in this scenario. I'm sure they would've loved to have ERod back. He clearly wanted to move on. You should do the same. I do realize it. It was an example meant for scale as much as anything else. But I suspect if a real offer had been made earlier, ERod would gave taken it. Are we on the he-didn-t-want-to-here carousel again? Or by this broad logic, this was the best they could do. Which is likely a far bigger problem.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 2, 2021 10:16:35 GMT -5
Some seem to be taking this as further proof they'll never sign another starter to a long deal, I don't think that's the case. It's the natural extension of the path they chose to take in this instance after signing Paxton and Wacha, which many on this board predicted. Maybe it just means with this crop of FA pitchers, that's the route they liked better. Two of those guys are off the books after the season and maybe next year they'll like a longer deal on a pitcher better. Erod's deal isn't this slam dunk no brainer some seem to be describing it as (was over the FG estimates which didn't even include an opt out for one example).
Also, this doesn't have to mean Whitlock and Houck are in the bullpen. For instance, if Wacha is only good twice through then it seems like he and Houck will be a great pair, and on games that are a blow out then great grab the innings from him.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 2, 2021 10:19:53 GMT -5
Huh? He re-signed with the Astros for 2 years and 50 million. His contract isn’t official for some reason so it’s still in limbo. I don’t know why, but it’s already been two weeks and didn’t make the deadline before the lockout I just saw. Strange....
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2021 12:48:47 GMT -5
If they resigned ERod and got two of the three pitchers they did, I'd say good job Bloom. Yet you just moved on from one of the safest options to three guys that could literally give you nothing but negative value.
I think Jon Gray got too much, you'd have to be an idiot to let ERod walk then give Gray four years 56 million. Yet Bundy got one year 5 million, I would have loved that.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 3, 2021 4:54:35 GMT -5
I think they upgraded the backend of the rotation. Much better than last year.
I was on the sign Stroman but I seen what the cubs gave. I’m all set with 3/70 million.
I like to see Chaim work the trade market. Just get one starter a little more high end.
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Dec 6, 2021 14:53:18 GMT -5
I'd really like to see Bloom go after Suzuki and try and swing a deal with the A's for one of their arms. I'd love to have Schwarber back too but money-wise we'll have to see if that could work. Getting a true number 3 would be very nice given how much depth you'll have at the back end while being able to keep Houck & Whitlock in the pen. Eovaldi/Sale/Montas (or Manaea)/Hill/Wacha/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck/Seabold/Bello, etc...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2021 15:22:56 GMT -5
I'd really like to see Bloom go after Suzuki and try and swing a deal with the A's for one of their arms. I'd love to have Schwarber back too but money-wise we'll have to see if that could work. Getting a true number 3 would be very nice given how much depth you'll have at the back end while being able to keep Houck & Whitlock in the pen. Eovaldi/Sale/Montas (or Manaea)/Hill/Wacha/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck/Seabold/Bello, etc... I was kind of dreaming of the same thing, but I don't see the Sox spending that kind of money. Ideally, I'd like to see Schwarber re-sign AND for the Sox to land Suzuki. I was thinking if they did that it would free them to make Bobby Dalbec available in a trade to Oakland for pitching. The idea is that Kyle Schwarber would butcher (I mean play) 1b for about 3/4 of the season until hopefully Tristan Casas is ready to take over. And Schwarber would DH in 2023 and beyond. ....But that's a lot of money for Schwarber, Suzuki, and a pitcher they'd pick up from Oakland which is a big reason why it wouldn't happen. Plus they'd have to spend more money on another 1b backup (Colin Moran would be nice) because if something happens to Schwarber until Casas is ready, you have a gaping hole at 1b, and besides you'd need a defensive replacement late in games for Schwarber anyways. So.....not happening. At this point I'd be thrilled with either Schwarber or Suzuki and I think at this point the Sox are done adding to their rotation. It's their bullpen they'll work on when the freeze ends.
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Dec 6, 2021 15:58:03 GMT -5
I'd really like to see Bloom go after Suzuki and try and swing a deal with the A's for one of their arms. I'd love to have Schwarber back too but money-wise we'll have to see if that could work. Getting a true number 3 would be very nice given how much depth you'll have at the back end while being able to keep Houck & Whitlock in the pen. Eovaldi/Sale/Montas (or Manaea)/Hill/Wacha/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck/Seabold/Bello, etc... I was kind of dreaming of the same thing, but I don't see the Sox spending that kind of money. Ideally, I'd like to see Schwarber re-sign AND for the Sox to land Suzuki. I was thinking if they did that it would free them to make Bobby Dalbec available in a trade to Oakland for pitching. The idea is that Kyle Schwarber would butcher (I mean play) 1b for about 3/4 of the season until hopefully Tristan Casas is ready to take over. And Schwarber would DH in 2023 and beyond. ....But that's a lot of money for Schwarber, Suzuki, and a pitcher they'd pick up from Oakland which is a big reason why it wouldn't happen. Plus they'd have to spend more money on another 1b backup (Colin Moran would be nice) because if something happens to Schwarber until Casas is ready, you have a gaping hole at 1b, and besides you'd need a defensive replacement late in games for Schwarber anyways. So.....not happening. At this point I'd be thrilled with either Schwarber or Suzuki and I think at this point the Sox are done adding to their rotation. It's their bullpen they'll work on when the freeze ends. Depends how much they're willing to spend for 1 year - they have so many guy with deals that expire after one season they could just absorb a bloated payroll for 2022. Can easily reset after the season and see what you have. If you're going to go over the tax might as well just blow through, and in this case not hamstringing yourself for future seasons given the short term deals.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 6, 2021 15:58:40 GMT -5
Y'all, this is the Rich Hill thread. There are plenty of other threads to talk about Suzuki, Schwarber, etc.
Thanks.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 27, 2022 12:03:25 GMT -5
Rich Hill joined the Sox radio booth and had some really interesting insights into how the Rays groom pitchers. He was asked about how they were able to win 100 games last season even though they lost so many important pitchers to injury.
He said that for every pitcher they have in the big leagues, they try to have at least one guy in the minors who throws the same pitches. For example, if Rich was injured (or traded?), they would try to have a guy ready in the minors who could replace his pitch mix. Or if Glasnow was injured, they'd want to have someone who could come up with his pitches.
Obviously, Rich Hill's curveball and Glasnow's pure stuff are pretty unique but not every pitcher or pitch is that special, so maybe they are able to teach prospects to throw a certain type of slider or changeup and they decide which pitchers (with which pitches) they want to use against particular teams and batters. If one guy who matches up well vs a certain team is unavailable when they play that team, they call the guy up who throws the same pitches.
I don't recall if the inning ended or if they just changed the subject with another question for him but I wish they had dug deeper into that topic. He had only really scratched the surface of it.
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Post by manfred on Mar 27, 2022 12:09:23 GMT -5
Every time there is a new post in this thread, I assume Hill is injured.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 27, 2022 15:21:04 GMT -5
Every time there is a new post in this thread, I assume Hill is injured. C'mon, Eeyore, it's not all bad.
He threw 158.2 IP last season -- cut him some slack!
(tbh, I wasn't sure which thread to put that in but thought it was worth sharing.)
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Post by incandenza on Mar 27, 2022 15:41:06 GMT -5
Funny thing about Hill: he has not had an ERA above 3.86 since 2013, and yet every projection on fangraphs has him at 4.55 or worse for 2022 (most are at 4.93).
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Post by manfred on Mar 27, 2022 15:41:15 GMT -5
Every time there is a new post in this thread, I assume Hill is injured. C'mon, Eeyore, it's not all bad.
He threw 158.2 IP last season -- cut him some slack!
(tbh, I wasn't sure which thread to put that in but thought it was worth sharing.)
I’m partly kidding. Partly, too, what else would it be? But I don’t think I’m alone in thinking getting half a season of good-Hill is a decent expectation.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 27, 2022 15:47:10 GMT -5
Funny thing about Hill: he has not had an ERA above 3.86 since 2013, and yet every projection on fangraphs has him at 4.55 or worse for 2022 (most are at 4.93). I just texted those exact stats to a buddy during the game today...
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 27, 2022 15:52:53 GMT -5
Funny thing about Hill: he has not had an ERA above 3.86 since 2013, and yet every projection on fangraphs has him at 4.55 or worse for 2022 (most are at 4.93). Exactly!! The perception of him vs the reality is crazy. I grab him for cheap on my fantasy team every chance I get.
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Post by splendidsplinter on Mar 27, 2022 19:17:04 GMT -5
Seeing him pitch today was a joy. On one swing and miss the batter started his swing twice . Just like the old cartons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 21:07:06 GMT -5
Seeing him pitch today was a joy. On one swing and miss the batter started his swing twice . Just like the old cartons. A pitcher does not need to throw 100 mph to be successful. They just need to mix pitches and stay out of the middle of the plate. Most pitchers were not throwing 98 mph and up in the 1970s and 1980s yet there were plenty of successful pitchers.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 3, 2022 22:25:30 GMT -5
First off, as far as I know, he's fine. I even checked MLBTR to make sure no injuries have been reported.
Second, I just listened to pod #242, in which Chris declared that "pitching more than five innings is not something Rich Hill is going to do at this point in his career." It turns out that in 31 starts last year Hill pitched 155.2 IP, which is an average of slightly more than 5 IP. In nine of those starts (29%) he went more than 5 IP, including an 8 inning start (with 13 Ks) in May.
I'm all for Whitlock piggy-backing with Hill (in addition to being available at least one other day between Hill's starts) but I'm looking forward to some of those Whitlock appearances to possibly be game-enders, after Hill has pitched 6+ IP (with perhaps a different RP coming on to finish off the 6th or 7th if Rich leaves in the middle of the inning, to allow Whitlock to come into a clean inning).
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