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Who should the Red Sox extend in 2022?
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2022 6:10:20 GMT -5
If the Sox continue their horrendous play, it may be time for a fire sale. I love Xander and Nate, but if Chaim doesn't believe they will sign with us, then I absolutely hate the idea of letting them go for nothing at the end of the year. They have so many free agents, so the real question is what can 4+ months of Eovaldi, Xander, Kiké, JD, Vasquez, JBJ get us in trades? We have money, so we could even offer to pay the majority of their salaries this year for a better return. I am not as knowledgeable about the farm systems of the other MLB teams as many of you on the forum, so I am curious what could be out there. Obviously, the teams we would be dealing with would have to be contenders or they wouldn't want any of these guys for only 4+ months BUT, with the extra playoff teams now, that should at least open up the number of teams we could deal with. I still hope they go on a long winning streak and none of this is necessary. But, if they get off to something like a 15-25 start, it could be time to punt. Curious what you guys think is out there. It’s about 2 months early to be considering this question. I think trading Xander is a mistake - it’s still better to try and resign him after he discovers his market.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Apr 28, 2022 8:14:42 GMT -5
If the Sox continue their horrendous play, it may be time for a fire sale. I love Xander and Nate, but if Chaim doesn't believe they will sign with us, then I absolutely hate the idea of letting them go for nothing at the end of the year. They have so many free agents, so the real question is what can 4+ months of Eovaldi, Xander, Kiké, JD, Vasquez, JBJ get us in trades? We have money, so we could even offer to pay the majority of their salaries this year for a better return. I am not as knowledgeable about the farm systems of the other MLB teams as many of you on the forum, so I am curious what could be out there. Obviously, the teams we would be dealing with would have to be contenders or they wouldn't want any of these guys for only 4+ months BUT, with the extra playoff teams now, that should at least open up the number of teams we could deal with. I still hope they go on a long winning streak and none of this is necessary. But, if they get off to something like a 15-25 start, it could be time to punt. Curious what you guys think is out there. It’s about 2 months early to be considering this question. I think trading Xander is a mistake - it’s still better to try and resign him after he discovers his market. Also any Xander trade would be severely limited due to his no trade clause.
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Post by bosoxnation on Apr 28, 2022 8:54:50 GMT -5
This poll makes me sick. Only 7 of us think X should be resigned. Vazquez with 11 votes, Eovaldi with 20. X with 7!!!! i’m happy i’m one of the 7 because at the end of the day we’re going to have so much available money slightly over paying for our home grown superstar who has been insanely consistent and took a team friendly deal while being in the top 15 in MVP like every year the last 5 years and our best hitter so far this season. It’s a no brainer.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Apr 28, 2022 9:01:45 GMT -5
This poll makes me sick. Only 7 of us think X should be resigned. Vazquez with 11 votes, Eovaldi with 20. X with 7!!!! i’m happy i’m one of the 7 because at the end of the day we’re going to have so much available money slightly over paying for our home grown superstar who has been insanely consistent and took a team friendly deal while being in the top 15 in MVP like every year the last 5 years and our best hitter so far this season. It’s a no brainer. I wouldn't read too much into the poll. Bogaerts' vote totals are that low because the contract listed for him is significantly higher than many of us think he'll actually be able to command on the open market. He's the #1 guy I hope they re-sign, but I can't say the team should prioritize giving him a $300 million contract right now.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 28, 2022 9:02:49 GMT -5
This poll makes me sick. Only 7 of us think X should be resigned. Vazquez with 11 votes, Eovaldi with 20. X with 7!!!! i’m happy i’m one of the 7 because at the end of the day we’re going to have so much available money slightly over paying for our home grown superstar who has been insanely consistent and took a team friendly deal while being in the top 15 in MVP like every year the last 5 years and our best hitter so far this season. It’s a no brainer. Only 7 think Bogaerts should be re-signed... on completely bonkers terms (9/300). It's basically Seager's deal but for a guy 2.5 years older. 7 seems pretty high, considering.
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Post by keninten on Apr 28, 2022 11:00:19 GMT -5
I always thought this poll wasn`t right. The numbers make no sense.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 5, 2022 21:05:02 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on May 5, 2022 21:33:46 GMT -5
All this article says is that Xander is going to opt out, which, there are remote tribespeople in Papua New Guinea who know that.
Having said that...
I continue to wish that Bloom would go to Boras and say, "Hey, if 3/105 is good enough for Correa, then surely it's good enough for Bogaerts." How could Boras disagree with that? And Bogaerts should be worth that contract.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 5, 2022 21:47:04 GMT -5
All this article says is that Xander is going to opt out, which, there are remote tribespeople in Papua New Guinea who know that.
Having said that... I continue to wish that Bloom would go to Boras and say, "Hey, if 3/105 is good enough for Correa, then surely it's good enough for Bogaerts." How could Boras disagree with that? And Bogaerts should be worth that contract.
Yeah, the story is garbage. Heyman and Boras aren't exactly Woodward and Bernstein when they pen these stories together. I wouldn't go near X at three years/$105M. I like X and hate Correa, but I can't say that X is better or younger. I also don't think Boras is looking for a three-year deal. That said, I'd like to see the RS make a serious offer. I could live with six years at a $25M AAV with an opt-out after three or four years. You could frontload the money a bit to increase the value of the contract and keep the AAV the same. Frontloading the money would also make it more likely X opts out in a few years. At that point, the RS would have to have to discipline not to chase him. If he says no to that deal, you move on in an unsentimental way. But he's the face of the franchise! But he's a classy guy! But he took a discount on his current contract to stay! These are all understandable emotional impulses, but bad reasons to sign a player to a contract that doesn't make BB or biz sense.
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Post by incandenza on May 5, 2022 22:13:19 GMT -5
All this article says is that Xander is going to opt out, which, there are remote tribespeople in Papua New Guinea who know that.
Having said that... I continue to wish that Bloom would go to Boras and say, "Hey, if 3/105 is good enough for Correa, then surely it's good enough for Bogaerts." How could Boras disagree with that? And Bogaerts should be worth that contract.
Yeah, the story is garbage. Heyman and Boras aren't exactly Woodward and Bernstein when they pen these stories together. I wouldn't go near X at three years/$105M. I like X and hate Correa, but I can't say that X is better or younger. I also don't think Boras is looking for a three-year deal. That said, I'd like to see the RS make a serious offer. I could live with six years at a $25M AAV with an opt-out after three or four years. You could frontload the money a bit to increase the value of the contract and keep the AAV the same. Frontloading the money would also make it more likely X opts out in a few years. At that point, the RS would have to have to discipline not to chase him. If he says no to that deal, you move on in an unsentimental way. But he's the face of the franchise! But he's a classy guy! But he took a discount on his current contract to stay! These are all understandable emotional impulses, but bad reasons to sign a player to a contract that doesn't make BB or biz sense. Yes, Correa is definitely worth more than Bogaerts on the free agent market. But Boras had a financial incentive to get his client Correa a lousy deal, so that's what he did. And now he'd be in a tough position arguing that Bogaerts shouldn't settle for that same deal. Bloom should leverage that.
But this is all predicated on thinking that Bogaerts would be worth 3/105. Personally I think he would; it's basically paying him to be a 4 WAR player for the next three years, without any face-of-the-franchise premium. Sounds good to me.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,228
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Post by cdj on May 5, 2022 23:52:49 GMT -5
I love y’all but those of you who chose Vazquez are maniacs
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 6, 2022 0:34:21 GMT -5
This poll makes me sick. Only 7 of us think X should be resigned. Vazquez with 11 votes, Eovaldi with 20. X with 7!!!! i’m happy i’m one of the 7 because at the end of the day we’re going to have so much available money slightly over paying for our home grown superstar who has been insanely consistent and took a team friendly deal while being in the top 15 in MVP like every year the last 5 years and our best hitter so far this season. It’s a no brainer. Only 7 think Bogaerts should be re-signed... on completely bonkers terms (9/300). It's basically Seager's deal but for a guy 2.5 years older. 7 seems pretty high, considering. Francisco Lindor is one year younger than Bogaerts. He is on the first year of a 10-year, $341m contract.
Bogaerts is currently producing at least as well or better than Lindor (and well out-producing Correa) and when Xander ages, he will have the bat to play 3B or LF, which Lindor will not have.
So do you think Bogie's agent is going to consider one year less than Lindor (through the same age 38 season) and $41m less a "bonkers" request? I sure don't think he will. (I'd compare him to Correa's long-term deal but nobody wanted to touch that idea with a 10' pole.)
It's incredible to me how low many Sox fans view Bogaerts, a homegrown guy who has done nothing but produce ever since he stepped foot on American soil and who is already in his third year of an incredibly team-friendly deal that he fought his agent to sign. As if that wasn't enough, he is a team leader and one of the few true gentleman in the game (how do Lindor or Correa score on that front?).
But sure, let's low-ball him again and see how easy it is to replace him.
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Post by incandenza on May 6, 2022 0:52:22 GMT -5
Only 7 think Bogaerts should be re-signed... on completely bonkers terms (9/300). It's basically Seager's deal but for a guy 2.5 years older. 7 seems pretty high, considering. Francisco Lindor is one year younger than Bogaerts. He is on the first year of a 10-year, $341m contract.
Bogaerts is currently producing at least as well or better than Lindor (and well out-producing Correa) and when Xander ages, he will have the bat to play 3B or LF, which Lindor will not have.
So do you think Bogie's agent is going to consider one year less than Lindor (through the same age 38 season) and $41m less a "bonkers" request? I sure don't think he will. (I'd compare him to Correa's long-term deal but nobody wanted to touch that idea with a 10' pole.)
It's incredible to me how low many Sox fans view Bogaerts, a homegrown guy who has done nothing but produce ever since he stepped foot on American soil and who is already in his third year of an incredibly team-friendly deal that he fought his agent to sign. As if that wasn't enough, he is a team leader and one of the few true gentleman in the game (how do Lindor or Correa score on that front?).
But sure, let's low-ball him again and see how easy it is to replace him.
Correa seems to have a reputation as a nice guy and good teammate? Honestly, I can really never remember why I'm supposed to think he's a jerk...
Anyway, IMO Lindor is overpaid and Correa is underpaid and I would love to keep Bogaerts and if it were up to me I'd give him 6/170 or something - I don't think that would be a low ball offer - but a 9 year deal covers ages 30-38, and paying $33 million/year for a guy in his late 30s has 'albatross' written all over it.
And I am on the record saying that the Red Sox should offer to sign Bogaerts to the exact same terms Boras got for his superstar client Correa. I don't see how he could say no to that.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 6, 2022 6:39:53 GMT -5
Stop screwing around with Xander and resign him. This team is doing the same **** with him that they did with Lester. Same with Devers. It might not be the best "value" that you can find keeping both of them, however, they are the two best players for this team now and in the future. Not to mention Blooms trades haven't really inspired confidence in getting the most back in return. He took a lessened return for Mookie because of David Price and he gave Benetendi away for free more or less. Unless you're a Winckowski fan. Even though he's hitting .164 in 61 minor league abs this year I'd rather have Khalil Lee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 8:47:36 GMT -5
This poll makes me sick. Only 7 of us think X should be resigned. Vazquez with 11 votes, Eovaldi with 20. X with 7!!!! i’m happy i’m one of the 7 because at the end of the day we’re going to have so much available money slightly over paying for our home grown superstar who has been insanely consistent and took a team friendly deal while being in the top 15 in MVP like every year the last 5 years and our best hitter so far this season. It’s a no brainer. You pay for expected future performance (not the past)! What position will X play. His range at SS is decreasing and if he is unwilling to change positions….. If X wants to get paid, he needs to play where the guy with the checkbook asks him to play!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 8:55:15 GMT -5
Only 7 think Bogaerts should be re-signed... on completely bonkers terms (9/300). It's basically Seager's deal but for a guy 2.5 years older. 7 seems pretty high, considering. Francisco Lindor is one year younger than Bogaerts. He is on the first year of a 10-year, $341m contract.
Bogaerts is currently producing at least as well or better than Lindor (and well out-producing Correa) and when Xander ages, he will have the bat to play 3B or LF, which Lindor will not have.
So do you think Bogie's agent is going to consider one year less than Lindor (through the same age 38 season) and $41m less a "bonkers" request? I sure don't think he will. (I'd compare him to Correa's long-term deal but nobody wanted to touch that idea with a 10' pole.)
It's incredible to me how low many Sox fans view Bogaerts, a homegrown guy who has done nothing but produce ever since he stepped foot on American soil and who is already in his third year of an incredibly team-friendly deal that he fought his agent to sign. As if that wasn't enough, he is a team leader and one of the few true gentleman in the game (how do Lindor or Correa score on that front?).
But sure, let's low-ball him again and see how easy it is to replace him.
Yes, Bogaerts has been absolutely fantastic!!! No one will argue that, but compare him with Cano or A-Rod. How did the last three or four years of those contracts work out. Cano released with $37,000,000 left to pay. NY wanted to void the last couple years of A-wROngD. I hope Bloom/Henry opens the wallet and keeps a few of the better FAs depending on how they see the team being pieced together. Hopefully we see Duran, Fitzgerald, Seabold, Winckowski, Walter, and many more this year in Boston so the FO can better access what is needed for next year.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,228
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Post by cdj on May 6, 2022 9:10:43 GMT -5
Stop screwing around with Xander and resign him. This team is doing the same shit with him that they did with Lester. Same with Devers. It might not be the best "value" that you can find keeping both of them, however, they are the two best players for this team now and in the future. Not to mention Blooms trades haven't really inspired confidence in getting the most back in return. He took a lessened return for Mookie because of David Price and he gave Benetendi away for free more or less. Unless you're a Winckowski fan. Even though he's hitting .164 in 61 minor league abs this year I'd rather have Khalil Lee. Rather having Lee over Winckowski at this point is an insane take. His hit tool is like a 40 if I’m being generous. He’s got zero shot at sticking if it doesn’t improve. It’s the exact opposite of a carrying tool, it’s an anchor tool. He’s striking out ~40 % of the time this year after being 30% last year in AAA and 72% of the time in the majors Winckowski looks like a back end starter. If he becomes a member of the rotation the deal is a W
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 6, 2022 9:19:39 GMT -5
Stop screwing around with Xander and resign him. This team is doing the same shit with him that they did with Lester. Same with Devers. It might not be the best "value" that you can find keeping both of them, however, they are the two best players for this team now and in the future. Not to mention Blooms trades haven't really inspired confidence in getting the most back in return. He took a lessened return for Mookie because of David Price and he gave Benetendi away for free more or less. Unless you're a Winckowski fan. Even though he's hitting .164 in 61 minor league abs this year I'd rather have Khalil Lee. Rather having Lee over Winckowski at this point is an insane take. His hit tool is like a 40 if I’m being generous. He’s got zero shot at sticking if it doesn’t improve. It’s the exact opposite of a carrying tool, it’s an anchor tool. He’s striking out ~40 % of the time this year after being 30% last year in AAA and 72% of the time in the majors Winckowski looks like a back end starter. If he becomes a member of the rotation the deal is a W Not really. He's more projectable and has a sky high ceiling. Will he get there? Who the hell knows. If Winckowski becomes a back end starter with 6 years of control the Benny deal is still a terrible trade. You need multiple hits at this point to make it worth it. Basically Winckowski and Freddy Valdez have to become MLB regulars in order for it to make sense. His hit tool makes him projected to be anywhere from solid player to worthless. Was just a ridiculous trade to make.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 6, 2022 9:21:30 GMT -5
Rather having Lee over Winckowski at this point is an insane take. His hit tool is like a 40 if I’m being generous. He’s got zero shot at sticking if it doesn’t improve. It’s the exact opposite of a carrying tool, it’s an anchor tool. He’s striking out ~40 % of the time this year after being 30% last year in AAA and 72% of the time in the majors Winckowski looks like a back end starter. If he becomes a member of the rotation the deal is a W Not really. He's more projectable and has a sky high ceiling. Will he get there? Who the hell knows. If Winckowski becomes a back end starter with 6 years of control the Benny deal is still a terrible trade. You need multiple hits at this point to make it worth it. Basically Winckowski and Freddy Valdez have to become MLB regulars in order for it to make sense. You greatly undervalue 6 years of control over a starting pitcher if you think trading 2 years of an average OF is worth more. “More projectable” yeah as in you can safely project Khalil Lee will strike out a minimum of 35% of the time at the MLB level lol
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2022 9:27:24 GMT -5
Eovaldi is starting to feel like a tough choice: sinking big money/length into him is a huge risk, but he also feels increasingly indispensable. I suspect unless they wildly overpay he’ll test the market… and then likely get wildly overpaid. But, man, losing him will be a bear.
I mean, truthfully, I think next year they have one trustworthy starter, Whitlock. They can likely fill out a few slots with Wacha-types, and if they get lucky Sale has something left… and we can hope Houck reaches his potential… but oof. I’d love to have Nate to count on.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 6, 2022 9:27:57 GMT -5
Not really. He's more projectable and has a sky high ceiling. Will he get there? Who the hell knows. If Winckowski becomes a back end starter with 6 years of control the Benny deal is still a terrible trade. You need multiple hits at this point to make it worth it. Basically Winckowski and Freddy Valdez have to become MLB regulars in order for it to make sense. You greatly undervalue 6 years of control over a starting pitcher if you think trading 2 years of an average OF is worth more. “More projectable” yeah as in you can safely project Khalil Lee will strike out a minimum of 35% of the time at the MLB level lol If you look at the fangraphs write up on Lee. Yes the hit tool is 40 but he also has a lot of power. He needs to shorten up his swing for sure since he strikes out a lot. He has a better shot to make an actual impact in the majors than Winckowski. You're more or less putting out there a best case scenario with a fringe pitching prospect that is more projectable as a long reliever if things break decent. I like the player but not for Benny. They sold incredibly low on him. 2020 was a messed up year for a lot of decent players that rebounded in 21. Its not trading Benny that was a bad decision it was settling on that package and not letting him at least start the season with the team. Could have gotten more there too.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 6, 2022 9:29:24 GMT -5
Eovaldi is starting to feel like a tough choice: sinking big money/length into him is a huge risk, but he also feels increasingly indispensable. I suspect unless they wildly overpay he’ll test the market… and then likely get wildly overpaid. But, man, losing him will be a bear. I mean, truthfully, I think next year they have one trustworthy starter, Whitlock. They can likely fill out a few slots with Wacha-types, and if they get lucky Sale has something left… and we can hope Houck reaches his potential… but oof. I’d love to have Nate to count on. Lets be real. There is zero chance Bloom gives Nasty Nate a big money deal. He's out of here at the deadline if the QO goes away. The question then becomes where would he fit best? Philly? Atlanta? Houston? Seattle? Lol
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 6, 2022 9:31:05 GMT -5
You greatly undervalue 6 years of control over a starting pitcher if you think trading 2 years of an average OF is worth more. “More projectable” yeah as in you can safely project Khalil Lee will strike out a minimum of 35% of the time at the MLB level lol If you look at the fangraphs write up on Lee. Yes the hit tool is 40 but he also has a lot of power. He needs to shorten up his swing for sure since he strikes out a lot. He has a better shot to make an actual impact in the majors than Winckowski. You're more or less putting out there a best case scenario with a fringe pitching prospect that is more projectable as a long reliever if things break decent. I like the player but not for Benny. Right now Lee currently projects to make no impact in the majors and winckowski will at least be a reliever, so no he absolutely does not have a better shot at making an actual impact in the majors than winckowski does “Fringe pitching prospect” lol. He’s #12 in the system, I guess those below him have no shot at all if they aren’t better than the fringe prospect.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 6, 2022 9:33:00 GMT -5
If you look at the fangraphs write up on Lee. Yes the hit tool is 40 but he also has a lot of power. He needs to shorten up his swing for sure since he strikes out a lot. He has a better shot to make an actual impact in the majors than Winckowski. You're more or less putting out there a best case scenario with a fringe pitching prospect that is more projectable as a long reliever if things break decent. I like the player but not for Benny. Right now Lee currently projects to make no impact in the majors and winckowski will at least be a reliever, so no he absolutely does not have a better shot at making an actual impact in the majors than winckowski does We can agree to disagree. We're talking about a potential platoon outfielder vs a reliever. The fact we are debating about this shows that the main piece in the trade was not worth Benny. Regardless of it being Winckowski or Lee.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 6, 2022 9:34:58 GMT -5
Right now Lee currently projects to make no impact in the majors and winckowski will at least be a reliever, so no he absolutely does not have a better shot at making an actual impact in the majors than winckowski does We can agree to disagree. We're talking about a potential platoon outfielder vs a reliever. The fact we are debating about this shows that the main piece in the trade was not worth Benny. Regardless of it being Winckowski or Lee. I love how you give Khalil Lee his absolute best possible outcome while calling Winckowski a fringe prospect (#12 in the system lol) and a reliever lol And again if Winckowski is a backend starter the trade is a W. You can agree to disagree if you’d like but 6 years of a SP in this league is the most valuable commodity you can have. Certainly beats 2 years of an average corner OF with limited pop
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