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jimoh
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Posts: 4,000
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Post by jimoh on Dec 7, 2022 18:06:15 GMT -5
Is there really a world where the Phillies keep him on the major league roster this year? Is there some goofy rule shenanigans here they could be taking advantage of? Well, say he was declared eligible at some point in the coming months, comes into spring training and looks amazing. They could just stick him in the bullpen. Interesting gamble. Hard to give up a spot in the mlb bullpen, when you are contending, to guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in game in years.
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2022 18:06:51 GMT -5
Glad to see 6 yankee pitchers taken.
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 7, 2022 18:07:44 GMT -5
Thrown off by the "accruing service time" for a guy in the military.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2022 18:13:33 GMT -5
Thrown off by the "accruing service time" for a guy in the military. The most important thing in the world is health, but man, this guy has sacrificed a lot. I feel bad for Song. Really hope he finds his way to the bigs one day
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 7, 2022 18:33:49 GMT -5
Phillies take Cam Cannon. I thought there was a chance he would be cut this offseason. Thanks for all of the updates Vermontsox
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 7, 2022 18:44:16 GMT -5
I wonder what the Red Sox could have gotten for Ward at the deadline. Seems like a guy worthy of the #1 Pick in the Rule 5 has some value.
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Post by pasadenasox on Dec 7, 2022 18:50:26 GMT -5
I wonder what the Red Sox could have gotten for Ward at the deadline. Seems like a guy worthy of the #1 Pick in the Rule 5 has some value. I suspect that it was the AFL run that added the value, such as it is, and he wouldn't have had the same standing in the summer at the deadline.
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Post by dirtdog on Dec 7, 2022 20:39:45 GMT -5
Bothered by the loss of Song. Cant win em all.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 7, 2022 20:46:45 GMT -5
Bothered by the loss of Song. Cant win em all. Haven't actually lost him - or Ward or Politi, yet. We'll see how things shake out.
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 7, 2022 20:51:35 GMT -5
What’s the disconnect between Wilkeman being a borderline Top 10 prospect and Ward being in the low 20’s yet Wilkeman doesn't get picked and Ward goes 1.01?
Is it proximity to majors (my guess), industry having a different opinion than SoxProspects, or a little of both?
If I’m the Nationals and I know I’m not winning this year, I think you’d go with the better guy despite being further away from MLB. Then again, maybe there’s the concern that exposing a guy who’s not ready yet to MLB will ruin him. Just thinking out loud a little.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 7, 2022 20:53:44 GMT -5
What’s the disconnect between Wilkeman being a borderline Top 10 prospect and Ward being in the low 20’s yet Wilkeman doesn't get picked and Ward goes 1.01? Is it proximity to majors (my guess), industry having a different opinion than SoxProspects, or a little of both? If I’m the Nationals and I know I’m not winning this year, I think you’d go with the better guy despite being further away from MLB. Then again, maybe there’s the concern that exposing a guy who’s not ready yet to MLB will ruin him. Just thinking out loud a little. Likelihood to stick on a major league roster (so basically proximity to majors) I think you’re pretty much on the ball with your thoughts
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Post by soxinjersey on Dec 7, 2022 21:40:21 GMT -5
The Sox paid 100 grand for Song's 17 Low A ball stats. Worth it! Yes. It's easy to forget that Song also pitched for the US team trying to qualify for the 2020 Olympics. So, in 2019, he went from Lowell to a pressurized qualifying tournament on a US team full of future major leaguers. As I remember, he only pitched in the first round of the tournament, but what a performance! 5 G, 5.1 innings: 1 H 0 R, 2BB and 6K. It's hard to identify the precise level, but at the time I guessed somewhere between AA & AAA. Ever since, I have believed that the Sox saw Song as their ace in the hole. Last year, I hoped for an early release from the military and imagined him in the Sox's beleaguered bullpen in September. Now I expect him to become the Phillies' Whitlock, a DD coup.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 7, 2022 22:22:09 GMT -5
What’s the disconnect between Wilkeman being a borderline Top 10 prospect and Ward being in the low 20’s yet Wilkeman doesn't get picked and Ward goes 1.01? Is it proximity to majors (my guess), industry having a different opinion than SoxProspects, or a little of both? If I’m the Nationals and I know I’m not winning this year, I think you’d go with the better guy despite being further away from MLB. Then again, maybe there’s the concern that exposing a guy who’s not ready yet to MLB will ruin him. Just thinking out loud a little. Likelihood to stick on a major league roster (so basically proximity to majors) I think you’re pretty much on the ball with your thoughts The "pick a low-minors guy in Rule 5, stash him for a year, then send him to the minors to develop" plan just doesn't actually work. Losing a full year of development is extremely harmful to a player who isn't ready. The best Rule 5 picks these days are guys in AA and above who are close to ready.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 7, 2022 22:25:39 GMT -5
Regarding Song, remember that we don't even know when he's coming back to baseball, if ever.
The Phillies will put him on the MLB restricted list, where he'll accrue service time. When he returns, HE'LL HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO MLB AFTER NOT PITCHING IN MORE THAN 3 YEARS. No rehab assignment. Nothing. Right to MLB despite having zero full-season-level experience.
If he comes back anytime after the are 90 days left in the season, he'll need to get 90 days in MLB before he can be sent down. At that point you're just continuing to push the timeline back.
The chances of this working out for the Phillies are SO remote that I'm failing to see this as anything but a dick move that isn't in Song's best interests at ALL.
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Post by coke0myfavdrink on Dec 7, 2022 22:28:46 GMT -5
Regarding Song, remember that we don't even know when he's coming back to baseball, if ever. The Phillies will put him on the MLB restricted list, where he'll accrue service time. When he returns, HE'LL HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO MLB AFTER NOT PITCHING IN MORE THAN 3 YEARS. No rehab assignment. Nothing. Right to MLB despite having zero full-season-level experience. If he comes back anytime after the are 90 days left in the season, he'll need to get 90 days in MLB before he can be sent down. At that point you're just continuing to push the timeline back. The chances of this working out for the Phillies are SO remote that I'm failing to see this as anything but a dick move that isn't in Song's best interests at ALL. Is there a way that the Red Sox could trade the rule 5 stip off of Song so perhaps he can be sent to the minors without being absolutely ruined?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 7, 2022 22:30:45 GMT -5
Regarding Song, remember that we don't even know when he's coming back to baseball, if ever. The Phillies will put him on the MLB restricted list, where he'll accrue service time. When he returns, HE'LL HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO MLB AFTER NOT PITCHING IN MORE THAN 3 YEARS. No rehab assignment. Nothing. Right to MLB despite having zero full-season-level experience. If he comes back anytime after the are 90 days left in the season, he'll need to get 90 days in MLB before he can be sent down. At that point you're just continuing to push the timeline back. The chances of this working out for the Phillies are SO remote that I'm failing to see this as anything but a dick move that isn't in Song's best interests at ALL. DD is sprucing up the resume.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 7, 2022 22:43:58 GMT -5
I've said all along, if the Sox weren't concerned about Ward's velocity drop, he'd be on the 40.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 7, 2022 22:53:48 GMT -5
Regarding Song, remember that we don't even know when he's coming back to baseball, if ever. The Phillies will put him on the MLB restricted list, where he'll accrue service time. When he returns, HE'LL HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO MLB AFTER NOT PITCHING IN MORE THAN 3 YEARS. No rehab assignment. Nothing. Right to MLB despite having zero full-season-level experience. If he comes back anytime after the are 90 days left in the season, he'll need to get 90 days in MLB before he can be sent down. At that point you're just continuing to push the timeline back. The chances of this working out for the Phillies are SO remote that I'm failing to see this as anything but a dick move that isn't in Song's best interests at ALL. I'm sure he'll get a calf strain that requires a rehab stint first day he reports to the majors. They can probably get away with making him pitch like 30 low leverage major league innings and then he's theirs. If they think he has a real chance of developing into a good starter then that's a cost you can pay.
I'm not sure Song will mind getting the free MLB service time and 700k salary
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Post by incandenza on Dec 7, 2022 23:41:39 GMT -5
Regarding Song, remember that we don't even know when he's coming back to baseball, if ever. The Phillies will put him on the MLB restricted list, where he'll accrue service time. When he returns, HE'LL HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO MLB AFTER NOT PITCHING IN MORE THAN 3 YEARS. No rehab assignment. Nothing. Right to MLB despite having zero full-season-level experience. If he comes back anytime after the are 90 days left in the season, he'll need to get 90 days in MLB before he can be sent down. At that point you're just continuing to push the timeline back. The chances of this working out for the Phillies are SO remote that I'm failing to see this as anything but a dick move that isn't in Song's best interests at ALL. I find the rules around all this stuff baffling so maybe I'm misunderstanding, but... Is one way to look at this that, due to Song's unique situation, he might only need to be stashed on a major league roster for 90 days rather than a full season? If so maybe that made him more attractive as a Rule 5 target?
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 7, 2022 23:53:01 GMT -5
I find the rules around all this stuff baffling so maybe I'm misunderstanding, but... Is one way to look at this that, due to Song's unique situation, he might only need to be stashed on a major league roster for 90 days rather than a full season? If so maybe that made him more attractive as a Rule 5 target?
Any draftee needs to spend their entire first season in the majors AND they need 90 days on the active roster (not on IL), then they go back to playing by normal rules. If they miss too much time the first year, they can finish up their 90 days the second season and then get sent down in the middle of that year.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Dec 8, 2022 0:21:20 GMT -5
Regarding Song, remember that we don't even know when he's coming back to baseball, if ever. The Phillies will put him on the MLB restricted list, where he'll accrue service time. When he returns, HE'LL HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO MLB AFTER NOT PITCHING IN MORE THAN 3 YEARS. No rehab assignment. Nothing. Right to MLB despite having zero full-season-level experience. If he comes back anytime after the are 90 days left in the season, he'll need to get 90 days in MLB before he can be sent down. At that point you're just continuing to push the timeline back. The chances of this working out for the Phillies are SO remote that I'm failing to see this as anything but a dick move that isn't in Song's best interests at ALL. My brother was an Air Force Academy grad, and the MINIMUM required active service time was a FULL FIVE YEARS! If that is the case, will Song be worth DD’s $100,000 Rule 5 draft pick after Song has not pitched for five years. Will Song even be remotely the same after half a decade of not pitching against live, professional competition?
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Dec 8, 2022 1:05:48 GMT -5
The cost of Brasier now includes Ward
The Phillies understood the Song situation better than the Sox Ya don't concern yourself with Service Time for a guy who'll be 34 when he reaches free agency.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 8, 2022 1:41:47 GMT -5
The cost of Brasier now includes Ward The Phillies understood the Song situation better than the Sox Ya don't concern yourself with Service Time for a guy who'll be 34 when he reaches free agency. What did the Sox not understand about Song? I don't think there's much of a case to be made that they should have put him on the 40-man roster.
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Post by terriblehondo on Dec 8, 2022 6:21:59 GMT -5
I always liked Ward. Wish him the best. I think he will stick and we will lose him.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2022 7:01:14 GMT -5
I don't think Thad Ward is coming back. While it should hardly be a crippling loss it's a loss that I think might have been avoidable. There are a number of comparable/worse players on the roster, but whatever, at least he'll get a clear shot to pitch. At worst I think he could have been an up and down guy for the Sox. Its interesting that he was the first pick. We'll see if he's better than some of the guys in the Sox bullpen and if its significant enough to matter.
Losing Song is weird but have they really ever had him anyways?
I'm guessing the Phillies will injury rehab him and keep him as the 13th man on the pitching staff, eventually, if he ever pitches. Guess you can't miss what you never had.
Can't imagine any of this would be good for his development but the Phillies must have some sort of plan or what's the point?
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