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6/14-6/16 Red Sox vs. Athletics Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 15, 2022 9:07:06 GMT -5
When considering how hot the Yankees currently are my thoughts go back to the 2001 Seattle Mariners. They won 116 games in the regular season yet did not win the World Series…. They did not even go to the World Series in 2001… Seattle has not even been to a World Series in franchise history. The Yankees may end up with being the division champs, but as long as the Red Sox are solid by playoff time that is the main objective. Then they can be set and ready for a strong playoff run… I was thinking of the Yankees and I went back to the 2018 Red Sox who won 108 regular season games but kind of coasted in September, or else might have won even more. The 2018 Red Sox did just fine in the playoffs. The 2018 Red Sox also had a hunger in them having a chip on their shoulders about getting bounced out of the playoffs 2 years running. These Yankees might have the same chip. They've been knocking on the door for a long time. I believe they the winningest team of the AL during the 2010s and didn't make the Series and have continued that pattern so far this decade. I hate to say it, but this just might be their year, sort of how 2018 was all about the Sox that year, whether we like it or not. Of course, I'd rather see them go the way of the 2001 Mariners than the 2018 Red Sox or 1998 Yankees. I'm certainly not anointing them champs. Just saying that they look like they're playing for keeps this year. I don't think I've seen their pitching look that good in a long time and they have been scoring runs as well, not like that AAA squad they had out on the field a lot of last summer and in the playoff game.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 15, 2022 10:53:54 GMT -5
When considering how hot the Yankees currently are my thoughts go back to the 2001 Seattle Mariners. They won 116 games in the regular season yet did not win the World Series…. They did not even go to the World Series in 2001… Seattle has not even been to a World Series in franchise history. The Yankees may end up with being the division champs, but as long as the Red Sox are solid by playoff time that is the main objective. Then they can be set and ready for a strong playoff run… I was thinking of the Yankees and I went back to the 2018 Red Sox who won 108 regular season games but kind of coasted in September, or else might have won even more. The 2018 Red Sox did just fine in the playoffs. The 2018 Red Sox also had a hunger in them having a chip on their shoulders about getting bounced out of the playoffs 2 years running. These Yankees might have the same chip. They've been knocking on the door for a long time. I believe they the winningest team of the AL during the 2010s and didn't make the Series and have continued that pattern so far this decade. I hate to say it, but this just might be their year, sort of how 2018 was all about the Sox that year, whether we like it or not. Of course, I'd rather see them go the way of the 2001 Mariners than the 2018 Red Sox or 1998 Yankees. I'm certainly not anointing them champs. Just saying that they look like they're playing for keeps this year. I don't think I've seen their pitching look that good in a long time and they have been scoring runs as well, not like that AAA squad they had out on the field a lot of last summer and in the playoff game. It will be all the more delicious when they lose in their first playoff series.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 15, 2022 10:56:34 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 15, 2022 11:07:06 GMT -5
I was thinking of the Yankees and I went back to the 2018 Red Sox who won 108 regular season games but kind of coasted in September, or else might have won even more. The 2018 Red Sox did just fine in the playoffs. The 2018 Red Sox also had a hunger in them having a chip on their shoulders about getting bounced out of the playoffs 2 years running. These Yankees might have the same chip. They've been knocking on the door for a long time. I believe they the winningest team of the AL during the 2010s and didn't make the Series and have continued that pattern so far this decade. I hate to say it, but this just might be their year, sort of how 2018 was all about the Sox that year, whether we like it or not. Of course, I'd rather see them go the way of the 2001 Mariners than the 2018 Red Sox or 1998 Yankees. I'm certainly not anointing them champs. Just saying that they look like they're playing for keeps this year. I don't think I've seen their pitching look that good in a long time and they have been scoring runs as well, not like that AAA squad they had out on the field a lot of last summer and in the playoff game. It will be all the more delicious when they lose in their first playoff series. You say "when" and I say "if"..lol. While that is certainly possible and would be funny, the way things line up, the Red Sox, if they remain in a playoff spot behind TB and Toronto, which is a distinct possibility, they could actually avoid the Yankees for the first two rounds of the playoffs. I think their path would be to go on the road and play the weak AL Central winner (Twins?) in the WC Round or whatever they call it and then they'd play Houston in the ALDS, and only then would the Sox play the Yankees should both advance so far - in the ALCS.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jun 15, 2022 11:11:41 GMT -5
Is Franchy going back to Worcester?
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Post by borisman on Jun 15, 2022 11:33:17 GMT -5
Is Franchy going back to Worcester? No it's because Arroyo is in covid protocol
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Post by incandenza on Jun 15, 2022 11:57:54 GMT -5
He stinks, but need a backup MIF. Unless Kiké is used as? Maybe Arroyo is just really unlucky? He is! xwOBA of .328 and wOBA of .240 - he's one of the unluckiest hitters in the league, right up there with Verdugo. The xwOBA is actually the highest of his career.
I say this as someone who has never been that high on Arroyo though, and precisely because his xwOBA is higher than ever, I sort of expect it to revert to his career norm, even as I would also expect his wOBA to creep up. (Incidentally, the exact opposite has happened with Benintendi this season; his wOBA was super high and his xwOBA was actually below his career norms early in the season. His super hot start has faded and the wOBA has come down, but the xwOBA has actually gone up and he's now at exactly .335 for both.)
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Post by incandenza on Jun 15, 2022 11:59:26 GMT -5
I wonder if the folks that said Rafi wasn't worth 300 would say now. The slow HR trot, eh....i don't know. My position before the season was I irrationally wanted them to give him $300 million.
My position now is that I rationally want them to give him $300 million.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 15, 2022 12:01:24 GMT -5
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 15, 2022 12:02:25 GMT -5
That Oakland starting pitcher last night is a great story but my god was he not MLB caliber After that bomb by Raffy I’m willing to give him the Arenado deal but over 10 years 11Y/330. Just get it done. At this point, I ask Devers what he is willing to accept and kind of navigate around it and work a offer. The Sox should have offered a real offer last off-season. Nickel and diming works when you're building around your core players, not when it comes to the actual product. You lose Devers, you lose the fans.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 15, 2022 12:13:18 GMT -5
11Y/330. Just get it done. At this point, I ask Devers what he is willing to accept and kind of navigate around it and work a offer. The Sox should have offered a real offer last off-season. Nickel and diming works when you're building around your core players, not when it comes to the actual product. You lose Devers, you lose the fans. They offered him over $200 million.
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Post by keninten on Jun 15, 2022 12:33:03 GMT -5
Could the Sox be waiting to sign Devers or X after the season so it does not effect the CBT this year?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 15, 2022 12:53:48 GMT -5
Could the Sox be waiting to sign Devers or X after the season so it does not effect the CBT this year? It wouldn't effect this season if he signed an extension after opening day.
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Post by keninten on Jun 15, 2022 13:32:44 GMT -5
Could the Sox be waiting to sign Devers or X after the season so it does not effect the CBT this year? It wouldn't effect this season if he signed an extension after opening day. I thought that was changed a few years ago. Been hoping that`s why he wasn`t getting signed.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 15, 2022 13:33:09 GMT -5
Is Franchy going back to Worcester? No it's because Arroyo is in covid protocol Who's the backup middle-infielder? Franchy? Devers? Dalbec? Vasquez?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 13:42:33 GMT -5
I was thinking of the Yankees and I went back to the 2018 Red Sox who won 108 regular season games but kind of coasted in September, or else might have won even more. The 2018 Red Sox did just fine in the playoffs. The 2018 Red Sox also had a hunger in them having a chip on their shoulders about getting bounced out of the playoffs 2 years running. These Yankees might have the same chip. They've been knocking on the door for a long time. I believe they the winningest team of the AL during the 2010s and didn't make the Series and have continued that pattern so far this decade. I hate to say it, but this just might be their year, sort of how 2018 was all about the Sox that year, whether we like it or not. Of course, I'd rather see them go the way of the 2001 Mariners than the 2018 Red Sox or 1998 Yankees. I'm certainly not anointing them champs. Just saying that they look like they're playing for keeps this year. I don't think I've seen their pitching look that good in a long time and they have been scoring runs as well, not like that AAA squad they had out on the field a lot of last summer and in the playoff game. It will be all the more delicious when they lose in their first playoff series. 2021 LA Dodgers won 106 games and lost to the 2021 Atlanta Braves who only won 88. What happens on the field sometimes is not what you would expect…
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 13:53:49 GMT -5
Is Franchy going back to Worcester? No it's because Arroyo is in covid protocol Covid is such a smart virus that it knows exactly who to infect (SARCASM).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 15, 2022 14:25:23 GMT -5
It will be all the more delicious when they lose in their first playoff series. 2021 LA Dodgers won 106 games and lost to the 2021 Atlanta Braves who only won 88. What happens on the field sometimes is not what you would expect… Yeah, I know. Sometimes you get upsets. And a bunch of times the favored team actually wins. I'm quite aware that the 1906 Cubs (116-36), the 1954 Cleveland Indians (111-43), the 1969 Orioles (109-53), the 2001 Mariners (116-46), 2004 St Louis Cardinals (105-57), the 2021 SF Giants (107-55), and the LA Dodgers (106-56) in both 2019 & 2021 didn't win the World Series. But sometimes really good juggernaut teams just seems to have their year. Coming to mind are the 2018 Red Sox, 2016 Cubs, 1998 Yankees, 1986 Mets, 1984 Tigers, and 1975-76 Reds. Whether the 2022 Yankees belong in the former or the latter remains to be seen. I just don't dismiss the second possibility out of hand just because I (we) hate that franchise.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 15, 2022 15:47:44 GMT -5
Duran Devers Martinez Bogaerts Verdugo Story Cordero Plawecki JBJ
Duran in CF and JBJ in RF
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 15, 2022 16:45:08 GMT -5
At this point, I ask Devers what he is willing to accept and kind of navigate around it and work a offer. The Sox should have offered a real offer last off-season. Nickel and diming works when you're building around your core players, not when it comes to the actual product. You lose Devers, you lose the fans. They offered him over $200 million. Is that a proper offer at the time? Like really, this is THE Boston Red Sox. Top 3 market in baseball. Is that fair?!!
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 15, 2022 17:18:19 GMT -5
They offered him over $200 million. Is that a proper offer at the time? Like really, this is THE Boston Red Sox. Top 3 market in baseball. Is that fair?!! With the defensive concerns that he had? Sure Now that he’s playing ok defense back up the brinks truck
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Post by incandenza on Jun 15, 2022 17:21:14 GMT -5
They offered him over $200 million. Is that a proper offer at the time? Like really, this is THE Boston Red Sox. Top 3 market in baseball. Is that fair?!! For a player who never had higher than a 134 wRC+ and also had major defensive questions, and who they still had two years of control of? Sure, I think it was a pretty fair offer. Not that Devers was obligated to accept it, but I think it's silly to say it wasn't a real offer. I think they really wanted to extend him.
Now their offer to Bogaerts on the other hand...
ADD: Also it sounded like the hangup for the Red Sox was more the number of years than AAV. The offer might have been like 7/210, including the two controlled years, running through Devers' age 31 season. Frankly I would have taken that if I were Devers - that's a lot of money plus a chance at another big payday.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 15, 2022 17:53:27 GMT -5
Is that a proper offer at the time? Like really, this is THE Boston Red Sox. Top 3 market in baseball. Is that fair?!! With the defensive concerns that he had? Sure Now that he’s playing ok defense back up the brinks truck Is that a proper offer at the time? Like really, this is THE Boston Red Sox. Top 3 market in baseball. Is that fair?!! For a player who never had higher than a 134 wRC+ and also had major defensive questions, and who they still had two years of control of? Sure, I think it was a pretty fair offer. Not that Devers was obligated to accept it, but I think it's silly to say it wasn't a real offer. I think they really wanted to extend him.
Now their offer to Bogaerts on the other hand...
ADD: Also it sounded like the hangup for the Red Sox was more the number of years than AAV. The offer might have been like 7/210, including the two controlled years, running through Devers' age 31 season. Frankly I would have taken that if I were Devers - that's a lot of money plus a chance at another big payday.
so for a 60 game sample he has increased his value 100 million ? I don't agree guys, there was plenty of reason to think he hadn't reached his potential. If Devers had hit the market prior to this year, i am pretty sure someone would have offered 10/ 250 mill. By definition, that is his market value. Anything less is a discount. add: i agree on the years point.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 15, 2022 17:54:52 GMT -5
With the defensive concerns that he had? Sure Now that he’s playing ok defense back up the brinks truck For a player who never had higher than a 134 wRC+ and also had major defensive questions, and who they still had two years of control of? Sure, I think it was a pretty fair offer. Not that Devers was obligated to accept it, but I think it's silly to say it wasn't a real offer. I think they really wanted to extend him.
Now their offer to Bogaerts on the other hand...
ADD: Also it sounded like the hangup for the Red Sox was more the number of years than AAV. The offer might have been like 7/210, including the two controlled years, running through Devers' age 31 season. Frankly I would have taken that if I were Devers - that's a lot of money plus a chance at another big payday.
so for a 60 game sample he has increased his value 100 million ? I don't agree guys, there was plenty of reason to think he hadn't reached his potential. If Devers had hit the market prior to this year, i am pretty sure someone would have offered 10/ 250 mill. By definition, that is his market value. Anything less is a discount. The fact that he looks like a competent defender goes a long way for me. I think he’s certainly increased his value some, idk about $100 mill. I’d be more comfortable giving him the term he wants too.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jun 15, 2022 17:59:32 GMT -5
No it's because Arroyo is in covid protocol Who's the backup middle-infielder? Franchy? Devers? Dalbec? Vasquez? One would hope we don’t find out. Would have to think Story to SS. Dalbec at 3B. And either Dalbec or Vazquez at 2B.
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