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Red Sox Acquire Eric Hosmer
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 8:33:46 GMT -5
I mean Hosmer at the league min for 3 more full years is such a shrewd move. They basically have perpetual minimum salary team options on him. Even on an old guy who's not very good, that's bananas. I think if there was less time pressure, the rest of the league would have bid up the cost on this one.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 8:40:38 GMT -5
If the Padres were willing to pay his entire salary to save $5 million in AAV for luxury tax, did Bloom miss an opportunity here? What could he have gotten If we took on his entire salary? I would have taken that contract if it meant getting Campusano. That's buying prospects. They've been window shopping with cash in their pocket at the Padres prospect store for years. It's clear they weren't selling at an attractive price.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 3, 2022 8:57:04 GMT -5
The Hosmer trade was a very good trade in isolation. I mean, highway robbery.
But… in context it takes on a lot less meaning. It would have been *awesome* before the season, so we actually had a 1st baseman. Now, it is too little, too late this year, and you add a guy at the position your only major rookie plays next year. In a sense, if Hosmer plays a lot next year, something has gone wrong. Unless they end up using him as JDM’s replacement which would suck.
It is strange that this and the Diekman trades are almost retroactive efforts to correct costly errors this year… neither of which greatly advance the team in the future.
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 3, 2022 9:11:36 GMT -5
I don't get the negative towards Groome, age 23 in AA and AAA averaging about 9 strikeouts per 9 innings and his stuff hasn't fully returned. A lot of players can take two full years to get all there stuff back after TJ surgery. Worst case he's what fighting for a bullpen spot next year? If trading him actually helped you get some good prospects I'd be fine with it. If the Padres were willing to pay his entire salary to save $5 million in AAV for luxury tax, did Bloom miss an opportunity here? What could he have gotten If we took on his entire salary? I would have taken that contract if it meant getting Campusano. That's buying prospects. Groome had Tommy John in 2018. He returned in 2019. It's been quite some time since he's had the surgery by now and while it's technically possible that the stuff "returns" it should by no means be assumed and at this point looks really unlikely. He pitches like a completely different guy now and the stuff just doesn't profile at the major league level.
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Post by jmei on Aug 3, 2022 9:16:43 GMT -5
There was no way they were ever going to get Campusano. That was always a pipe dream. Prospects of that caliber almost never get "bought" for just cash.
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Post by jphelan on Aug 3, 2022 9:24:40 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaydouble on Aug 3, 2022 9:27:02 GMT -5
This is always the first thing that I think of when his name comes up too. At least he's basically free.
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Post by jphelan on Aug 3, 2022 9:31:40 GMT -5
This is always the first thing that I think of when his name comes up too. At least he's basically free. I feel like this is a David Justice in Moneyball situation: "No, man, I ain't paying you. Padres are paying your salary. That's what the San Diego Padres think of you."
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 3, 2022 10:10:17 GMT -5
The Hosmer trade was a very good trade in isolation. I mean, highway robbery. But… in context it takes on a lot less meaning. It would have been *awesome* before the season, so we actually had a 1st baseman. Now, it is too little, too late this year, and you add a guy at the position your only major rookie plays next year. In a sense, if Hosmer plays a lot next year, something has gone wrong. Unless they end up using him as JDM’s replacement which would suck. It is strange that this and the Diekman trades are almost retroactive efforts to correct costly errors this year… neither of which greatly advance the team in the future. It's funny, I don't recall a deafening outcry during the off-season to do something about 1B. There was no "Who should be the first baseman?" thread although there was a "When do we see Big Triston Casas?" thread.
My recollection is that people were mostly excited about Dalbec's last couple months of 2021 and universally excited about the prospect of Casas making a significant contribution to the second half of the season. So acquiring Hosmer was not only not an urgent need but I would hazard that many here would have wondered why Chaim was blocking Casas.
There were people who wanted to sign Schwarber but the thing about that is he's not a 1B. He has played a total of 11 games at 1B in his 7-year career (9 starts, 6 finishes), all but one with the Red Sox after last year's trade deadline, and none this year. He is a LF/DH, just like J.D. Martinez (Hey, there's an idea! Put JD at 1B! He could learn!).
The other problem I have with the "Hosmer before the season" argument is that there's no way on God's green Earth that this deal would've been made before the season.
First base has clearly not worked out so far this year but it's not like there wasn't a plan. Bobby and Franchy have shown flashes at the plate but both have struggled in the field. Travis Shaw was toast. Casas got hurt. Murphy's Law, best laid plans, etc. The plain fact that Hosmer is an obvious upgrade tells you all you need to know.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 3, 2022 10:12:36 GMT -5
Sounds like Hosmer will be joining the team in KC. I guess there are no flights from San Diego to Houston.
Cincinnati to Houston apparently not as big of a problem.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 3, 2022 10:16:38 GMT -5
Sounds like Hosmer will be joining the team in KC. I guess there are no flights from San Diego to Houston.
Cincinnati to Houston apparently not as big of a problem.
I mean, after the last 24 hours he endured, I'm not mad about giving then guy an extra day to get his life back on track. Plus, making his debut in KC is pretty awesome
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 3, 2022 10:21:00 GMT -5
The Hosmer trade was a very good trade in isolation. I mean, highway robbery. But… in context it takes on a lot less meaning. It would have been *awesome* before the season, so we actually had a 1st baseman. Now, it is too little, too late this year, and you add a guy at the position your only major rookie plays next year. In a sense, if Hosmer plays a lot next year, something has gone wrong. Unless they end up using him as JDM’s replacement which would suck. It is strange that this and the Diekman trades are almost retroactive efforts to correct costly errors this year… neither of which greatly advance the team in the future. It's funny, I don't recall a deafening outcry during the off-season to do something about 1B. There was no "Who should be the first baseman?" thread although there was a "When do we see Big Triston Casas?" thread.
My recollection is that people were mostly excited about Dalbec's last couple months of 2021 and universally excited about the prospect of Casas making a significant contribution to the second half of the season. So acquiring Hosmer was not only not an urgent need but I would hazard that many here would have wondered why Chaim was blocking Casas.
There were people who wanted to sign Schwarber but the thing about that is he's not a 1B. He has played a total of 11 games at 1B in his 7-year career (9 starts, 6 finishes), all but one with the Red Sox after last year's trade deadline, and none this year. He is a LF/DH, just like J.D. Martinez (Hey, there's an idea! Put JD at 1B! He could learn!).
The other problem I have with the "Hosmer before the season" argument is that there's no way on God's green Earth that this deal would've been made before the season.
First base has clearly not worked out so far this year but it's not like there wasn't a plan. Bobby and Franchy have shown flashes at the plate but both have struggled in the field. Travis Shaw was toast. Casas got hurt. Murphy's Law, best laid plans, etc. The plain fact that Hosmer is an obvious upgrade tells you all you need to know.
Obviously this deal doesn’t get made then. I was definitely calling for a 1b. There was much excitement when briefly there was talk of Freeman. Dalbec had a hot streak but… this was predictable. And I have been wise to Franchy from go. The point is, for a team with little present and huge questions next year, getting a maybe-slightly-above average 32-year old 1b — when your top prospect is a 1b penciled in for next year — maybe absolutely no risk, but the gain ought not be overestimated. When one of the exciting parts is “hey, we can release him any time without costing anything,” it says a lot. I’ll say this: you take a great core like 2018, put Hosmer at 1st, and it is huge. You take a team with questions at many positions… not a difference maker.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 3, 2022 10:37:13 GMT -5
The Hosmer trade was a very good trade in isolation. I mean, highway robbery. But… in context it takes on a lot less meaning. It would have been *awesome* before the season, so we actually had a 1st baseman. Now, it is too little, too late this year, and you add a guy at the position your only major rookie plays next year. In a sense, if Hosmer plays a lot next year, something has gone wrong. Unless they end up using him as JDM’s replacement which would suck. It is strange that this and the Diekman trades are almost retroactive efforts to correct costly errors this year… neither of which greatly advance the team in the future. It's funny, I don't recall a deafening outcry during the off-season to do something about 1B. There was no "Who should be the first baseman?" thread although there was a "When do we see Big Triston Casas?" thread.
My recollection is that people were mostly excited about Dalbec's last couple months of 2021 and universally excited about the prospect of Casas making a significant contribution to the second half of the season. So acquiring Hosmer was not only not an urgent need but I would hazard that many here would have wondered why Chaim was blocking Casas.
There were people who wanted to sign Schwarber but the thing about that is he's not a 1B. He has played a total of 11 games at 1B in his 7-year career (9 starts, 6 finishes), all but one with the Red Sox after last year's trade deadline, and none this year. He is a LF/DH, just like J.D. Martinez (Hey, there's an idea! Put JD at 1B! He could learn!).
The other problem I have with the "Hosmer before the season" argument is that there's no way on God's green Earth that this deal would've been made before the season.
First base has clearly not worked out so far this year but it's not like there wasn't a plan. Bobby and Franchy have shown flashes at the plate but both have struggled in the field. Travis Shaw was toast. Casas got hurt. Murphy's Law, best laid plans, etc. The plain fact that Hosmer is an obvious upgrade tells you all you need to know.
You are correct in your proclaiming that nobody was worried about 1st base and that Bobby proved he could be the man this year from last years explosion late. Funny how Murphy's Law does stick its nose into those plans almost every time.
Bobby, for the most part, has failed to live up to the expectations and Casas had that high ankle sprain which sent his season off the rails. Hosmer is a decent fill in for now and especially because SD is footing the bill.
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Post by joshuacoffee on Aug 3, 2022 10:59:17 GMT -5
Interesting notes about MLB Pipeline ratings of the prospects in the deal within their systems- •Ferguson was 11th in the Padres system at the time of the deal (which admittedly was after the Padres traded a ton of their top talent). He's slotting in at at 30 for the Sox per Pipeline. •Rosier was 26th in the Padres system at the time of the deal and is somewhere outside of the Sox top 30 (they only do a top 30). •Groome was 11th in the Sox system and is now 11th in the Padres system. Shaky observations about this- •Both the Padres and Sox have exactly 10 prospects better than Groome. •The Padres have 10 prospects better than Ferguson, the Red Sox have 29. Even more shaky conclusion to draw from this- •While nothing can be said about comparing the top ten of the Padres and Sox system, apparently if you start right after 10, the Red Sox have a much better system in that next tier. As had often been pointed out around here, the core of a system's value is its top talent, depth only enhances it marginally. But it's better to have depth than not, and there are practical reasons to be happy that the Sox have more guys who are guys in the 10-30 range (see: this year's crazy injuries necessitating those guys being called up). Regardless, it will be interesting to see where the Padres recently depleted system falls to in system wide ranking lists. Source: www.mlb.com/redsox/news/eric-hosmer-red-sox-trade
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 3, 2022 11:11:42 GMT -5
Interesting notes about MLB Pipeline ratings of the prospects in the deal within their systems- •Ferguson was 11th in the Padres system at the time of the deal (which admittedly was after the Padres traded a ton of their top talent). He's slotting in at at 30 for the Sox per Pipeline. •Rosier was 26th in the Padres system at the time of the deal and is somewhere outside of the Sox top 30 (they only do a top 30). •Groome was 11th in the Sox system and is now 11th in the Padres system. Shaky observations about this- •Both the Padres and Sox have exactly 10 prospects better than Groome. •The Padres have 10 prospects better than Ferguson, the Red Sox have 29. Even more shaky conclusion to draw from this- •While nothing can be said about comparing the top ten of the Padres and Sox system, apparently if you start right after 10, the Red Sox have a much better system in that next tier. As had often been pointed out around here, the core of a system's value is its top talent, depth only enhances it marginally. But it's better to have depth than not, and there are practical reasons to be happy that the Sox have more guys who are guys in the 10-30 range (see: this year's crazy injuries necessitating those guys being called up). Regardless, it will be interesting to see where the Padres recently depleted system falls to in system wide ranking lists. Source: www.mlb.com/redsox/news/eric-hosmer-red-sox-tradeWouldn't Ferguson being 11th have been pre-Soto deal, and Groome post-Soto deal? I mean, both of those trades happened so close together I can't imagine they'd have updated it so quickly.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2022 11:17:12 GMT -5
I don’t think mlb.com has really done prospect updates yet. They have Downs at 5 and Rafaela at 25. Wouldn’t really make any judgements at all based on what they have down now
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 3, 2022 11:20:46 GMT -5
I don't get the negative towards Groome, age 23 in AA and AAA averaging about 9 strikeouts per 9 innings and his stuff hasn't fully returned. A lot of players can take two full years to get all there stuff back after TJ surgery. Worst case he's what fighting for a bullpen spot next year? If trading him actually helped you get some good prospects I'd be fine with it. If the Padres were willing to pay his entire salary to save $5 million in AAV for luxury tax, did Bloom miss an opportunity here? What could he have gotten If we took on his entire salary? I would have taken that contract if it meant getting Campusano. That's buying prospects. Groome had Tommy John in 2018. He returned in 2019. It's been quite some time since he's had the surgery by now and while it's technically possible that the stuff "returns" it should by no means be assumed and at this point looks really unlikely. He pitches like a completely different guy now and the stuff just doesn't profile at the major league level. It's about rebuilding arm strength and getting the feeling back for pitching. It's two years of playing, he's not even at 200 innings since his surgery. The lost 2020 season killed him. Sure it's not a given, would have liked to see what he looked like next spring though He's a LHP striking out about a batter per inning. Showing the ability to work out of jams. That's his stuff doesn't profile at MLB level? More like he went from #2/3 starter to backend guy/bullpen piece. I certainly would have tried a bullpen role before trading him for not much. We've seen guys velocity increase many times when they aren't worried about saving engery for multiple innings. I went from thinking I'd get to see a few starts this year, to he's gone and I don't like it.
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Post by bosox904 on Aug 3, 2022 11:24:02 GMT -5
Interesting notes about MLB Pipeline ratings of the prospects in the deal within their systems- •Ferguson was 11th in the Padres system at the time of the deal (which admittedly was after the Padres traded a ton of their top talent). He's slotting in at at 30 for the Sox per Pipeline. •Rosier was 26th in the Padres system at the time of the deal and is somewhere outside of the Sox top 30 (they only do a top 30). •Groome was 11th in the Sox system and is now 11th in the Padres system. Shaky observations about this- •Both the Padres and Sox have exactly 10 prospects better than Groome. •The Padres have 10 prospects better than Ferguson, the Red Sox have 29. Even more shaky conclusion to draw from this- •While nothing can be said about comparing the top ten of the Padres and Sox system, apparently if you start right after 10, the Red Sox have a much better system in that next tier. As had often been pointed out around here, the core of a system's value is its top talent, depth only enhances it marginally. But it's better to have depth than not, and there are practical reasons to be happy that the Sox have more guys who are guys in the 10-30 range (see: this year's crazy injuries necessitating those guys being called up). Regardless, it will be interesting to see where the Padres recently depleted system falls to in system wide ranking lists. Source: www.mlb.com/redsox/news/eric-hosmer-red-sox-tradeI don't look too much into their ranking right now, I believe they'll do an update soon. I don't remember seeing Wilyer Abreu on there after the trade, but now he's 29th. Unless I missed him when I looked yesterday.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2022 11:25:52 GMT -5
Groome had Tommy John in 2018. He returned in 2019. It's been quite some time since he's had the surgery by now and while it's technically possible that the stuff "returns" it should by no means be assumed and at this point looks really unlikely. He pitches like a completely different guy now and the stuff just doesn't profile at the major league level. It's about rebuilding arm strength and getting the feeling back for pitching. It's two years of playing, he's not even at 200 innings since his surgery. The lost 2020 season killed him. Sure it's not a given, would have liked to see what he looked like next spring though He's a LHP striking out about a batter per inning. Showing the ability to work out of jams. That's his stuff doesn't profile at MLB level? More like he went from #2/3 starter to backend guy/bullpen piece. I certainly would have tried a bullpen role before trading him for not much. We've seen guys velocity increase many times when they aren't worried about saving engery for multiple innings. I went from thinking I'd get to see a few starts this year, to he's gone and I don't like it. Tbh if it was 1 for 1 Hosmer at the minimum for Groome I do it 10 times out of 10. All the upper minors depth guys are better than him, including Seabold. He’s a waste of a 40 man spot
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2022 11:43:18 GMT -5
The Hosmer trade was a very good trade in isolation. I mean, highway robbery. But… in context it takes on a lot less meaning. It would have been *awesome* before the season, so we actually had a 1st baseman. Now, it is too little, too late this year, and you add a guy at the position your only major rookie plays next year. In a sense, if Hosmer plays a lot next year, something has gone wrong. Unless they end up using him as JDM’s replacement which would suck. It is strange that this and the Diekman trades are almost retroactive efforts to correct costly errors this year… neither of which greatly advance the team in the future. What's strange about this? Isn't this pretty much the point of deadline deals? The Yankees also made a retroactive effort to correct a costly error by upgrading on Gallo.
Also, both these moves do advance the team in the future. They now have a low-cost backup 1B/DH and C for the next couple of years. Not bad considering they gave up nothing to get them.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 3, 2022 11:45:23 GMT -5
The Hosmer trade was a very good trade in isolation. I mean, highway robbery. But… in context it takes on a lot less meaning. It would have been *awesome* before the season, so we actually had a 1st baseman. Now, it is too little, too late this year, and you add a guy at the position your only major rookie plays next year. In a sense, if Hosmer plays a lot next year, something has gone wrong. Unless they end up using him as JDM’s replacement which would suck. It is strange that this and the Diekman trades are almost retroactive efforts to correct costly errors this year… neither of which greatly advance the team in the future. If Hosmer is bad than the Red Sox can release him as if he were a rental. His defense and offense are better than Franchy. Diekman was not as good as expected and the Red Sox need a backup catch. McGuire has three years of controllability and is making league minimum, and he will save roughly $1,700,000 over what Plawecki is currently making Manfred, whatever the opposite of a silver lining is, is what you focus on. There are positive reasons and outcomes for what is going on…..
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Post by Guidas on Aug 3, 2022 11:59:38 GMT -5
There was no way they were ever going to get Campusano. That was always a pipe dream. Prospects of that caliber almost never get "bought" for just cash. Exactly. Especially given Preller's other moves, the cash at this point is a sunk cost. The only way you're getting a prospect like Campusano is trading a player like Mayer or Casas in return, and only if SD values either of those higher than Campusano, who is that rare gem: a legit, toolsy near-MLB-ready catcher.
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Post by dcb26 on Aug 3, 2022 12:01:49 GMT -5
Obviously this deal doesn’t get made then. I was definitely calling for a 1b. There was much excitement when briefly there was talk of Freeman. Dalbec had a hot streak but… this was predictable. And I have been wise to Franchy from go. The point is, for a team with little present and huge questions next year, getting a maybe-slightly-above average 32-year old 1b — when your top prospect is a 1b penciled in for next year — maybe absolutely no risk, but the gain ought not be overestimated. When one of the exciting parts is “hey, we can release him any time without costing anything,” it says a lot. I’ll say this: you take a great core like 2018, put Hosmer at 1st, and it is huge. You take a team with questions at many positions… not a difference maker. Getting Hosmer makes it much less likely that we have those same question marks at 1b for the next couple of offseasons as we had this past offseason. I would be shocked if this move is a huge difference-maker, but if the Sox go from something like -1 to +1 WAR at 1b next year, that's a very real upgrade - it might not make them competitors by itself, but it takes away one of the things standing in their way (plus, I don't think we should overlook the value in taking the pressure off of Casas to have to be a savior of sorts next year.). And I would argue there is literally no cost to acquiring him (like many others I view this mainly as a Hosmer dump by SD, and Groome for prospects to make the optics look right to both sides.) So yes, anyone who wants to further the narrative that the Sox are incapable of or unwilling to make major improvements will use this move to do so, but it is beyond me how anyone could complain about this (Manfred, not saying you are doing that specifically here, just a general statement.) To build off of one of your points, it also says a lot when “hey, we can release him any time without costing anything” is also the absolute worst possible realistic outcome, with likely some tangible upside.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2022 12:08:00 GMT -5
Obviously this deal doesn’t get made then. I was definitely calling for a 1b. There was much excitement when briefly there was talk of Freeman. Dalbec had a hot streak but… this was predictable. And I have been wise to Franchy from go. The point is, for a team with little present and huge questions next year, getting a maybe-slightly-above average 32-year old 1b — when your top prospect is a 1b penciled in for next year — maybe absolutely no risk, but the gain ought not be overestimated. When one of the exciting parts is “hey, we can release him any time without costing anything,” it says a lot. I’ll say this: you take a great core like 2018, put Hosmer at 1st, and it is huge. You take a team with questions at many positions… not a difference maker. Getting Hosmer makes it much less likely that we have those same question marks at 1b for the next couple of offseasons as we had this past offseason. I would be shocked if this move is a huge difference-maker, but if the Sox go from something like -1 to +1 WAR at 1b next year, that's a very real upgrade - it might not make them competitors by itself, but it takes away one of the things standing in their way (plus, I don't think we should overlook the value in taking the pressure off of Casas to have to be a savior of sorts next year.). And I would argue there is literally no cost to acquiring him (like many others I view this mainly as a Hosmer dump by SD, and Groome for prospects to make the optics look right to both sides.) So yes, anyone who wants to further the narrative that the Sox are incapable of or unwilling to make major improvements will use this move to do so, but it is beyond me how anyone could complain about this (Manfred, not saying you are doing that specifically here, just a general statement.) To build off of one of your points, it also says a lot when “hey, we can release him any time without costing anything” is also the absolute worst possible realistic outcome, with likely some tangible upside. I don’t like Hosmer, but he’s a free bridge to Casas and he gives us protection from Bobby when he goes off the rails, while also not blocking Bobby should he go meteoric again this August (please do). Can’t complain about a free safety net
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 3, 2022 12:08:58 GMT -5
. Eric Hosmer will join the Red Sox tomorrow in Kansas City.
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