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8/23-8/25 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
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Post by dirtdog on Aug 23, 2022 20:56:04 GMT -5
No. What bothers me is Winck and Franchy were guys multiple teams had given up on, and our FO seemed to think they knew better. There is no doubt Bloom loves his broken toys. No guts no glory.
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 23, 2022 20:56:19 GMT -5
You know what bothers me about the Benny trade? Not trading AB, not even getting dog squeeze back. No. What bothers me is Winck and Franchy were guys multiple teams had given up on, and our FO seemed to think they knew better. They strike me as emblems of a weâre-smarter-than-the-league attitude. And I donât believe it. Maybe a little, but not so much so that a guy like Franchy was just waiting for the Sox to do what no one else could. You could be right. Though, getting Whitlock, and German, and Pivetta, and a great year out of Kiké could assuage potential doubts of their ability to acquire talent. I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. Just that I can see why they would feel like their decisions are better than a coin flip (in a vacuum).
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2022 20:58:11 GMT -5
the scariest thing about all of this for me is....where do we go from here ? Not intended to derail the Game thread, just a deep, existential thought. I actually ponder that often during these types of games. We have a lot of games left - once we are eliminated, who will play? The only thing that brings me comfort is that the 2023 team is going to be very, very different.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 23, 2022 20:59:18 GMT -5
JBJ is 2-2 with a walk tonight, i am completely depressed.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2022 20:59:26 GMT -5
That Benintendi trade, like most of Bloom's trades, was terrible. For a farm guy, he's pretty bad at it outside of drafting. I believe Benni was in the midst of a year and a half slump at the time and batting well below 200. That was your basic salary dump/ fire sale. I think Beni being a train wreck is overstated. For a year and a half he was about average. His 2020 season was what, 39 ABs before he got hurt? I dont put any stock in that. I was fine with trading him. You'd think that out of 5 players they get back for him, one could be average, but nope. Two are replacement level and the other 3 likely never sniff the majors. Good idea, but lackluster talent judgment.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 23, 2022 20:59:45 GMT -5
You know what bothers me about the Benny trade? Not trading AB, not even getting dog squeeze back. No. What bothers me is Winck and Franchy were guys multiple teams had given up on, and our FO seemed to think they knew better. They strike me as emblems of a weâre-smarter-than-the-league attitude. And I donât believe it. Maybe a little, but not so much so that a guy like Franchy was just waiting for the Sox to do what no one else could. You could be right. Though, getting Whitlock, and German, and Pivetta, and a great year out of Kiké could assuage potential doubts of their ability to acquire talent. I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. Just that I can see why they would feel like their decisions are better than a coin flip (in a vacuum). Admittedly I forget the Pivetta deal. That was an incredible trade. Kiké was a great signing. Hope they sign him for a couple more years.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2022 21:01:10 GMT -5
that is a good start, but the other teams in the division. I am honestly terrified that we won't be relevant for the next 3 years. Rumor has it they will be Really good in 2025 Likely the Orioles will be better and the Rays and perhaps Yankees will be as well. Toronto's system isn't as good.
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Post by station13 on Aug 23, 2022 21:01:26 GMT -5
JBJ is 2-2 with a walk tonight, i am completely depressed. He's facing players similar in talents to him.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,196
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Post by cdj on Aug 23, 2022 21:02:10 GMT -5
I believe Benni was in the midst of a year and a half slump at the time and batting well below 200. That was your basic salary dump/ fire sale. I think Beni being a train wreck is overstated. For a year and a half he was about average. His 2020 season was what, 39 ABs before he got hurt? I dont put any stick in that. I was fine with trading him. You'd think that out of 5 players they get back for him, one could be average, but nope. Two are replacement level and the other 3 likely never sniff the majors. Good idea, but lackluster talent judgment. He started sucking towards the end of 2019, he fell off a cliff in September of that year
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Post by dirtdog on Aug 23, 2022 21:03:07 GMT -5
I believe Benni was in the midst of a year and a half slump at the time and batting well below 200. That was your basic salary dump/ fire sale. I think Beni being a train wreck is overstated. For a year and a half he was about average. His 2020 season was what, 39 ABs before he got hurt? I dont put any stick in that. I was fine with trading him. You'd think that out of 5 players they get back for him, one could be average, but nope. Two are replacement level and the other 3 likely never sniff the majors. Good idea, but lackluster talent judgment. I think much like the Mookie deal, for various reasons when unloading Benni, Bloom was dealing with a buyers market. IE little to no leverage.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 23, 2022 21:03:22 GMT -5
Giants win
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 23, 2022 21:06:28 GMT -5
I believe Benni was in the midst of a year and a half slump at the time and batting well below 200. That was your basic salary dump/ fire sale. I think Beni being a train wreck is overstated. For a year and a half he was about average. His 2020 season was what, 39 ABs before he got hurt? I dont put any stick in that. I was fine with trading him. You'd think that out of 5 players they get back for him, one could be average, but nope. Two are replacement level and the other 3 likely never sniff the majors. Good idea, but lackluster talent judgment. When we traded him he was 11 for his last 96 and looked absolutely useless at the plate. He had bulked up in the offseason to try to hit dingers and make more money, not to acquiesce to organizational wishes, and had ruined his swing in the process. His speed had also rapidly declined. Then he missed the rest of the season after his prolonged slump with an injury. The guy looked washed. He could just as easily have bombed out of the majors.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2022 21:07:40 GMT -5
I think Beni being a train wreck is overstated. For a year and a half he was about average. His 2020 season was what, 39 ABs before he got hurt? I dont put any stick in that. I was fine with trading him. You'd think that out of 5 players they get back for him, one could be average, but nope. Two are replacement level and the other 3 likely never sniff the majors. Good idea, but lackluster talent judgment. He started sucking towards the end of 2019, he fell off a cliff in September of that year Players dont have a crappy month every now and then? That's one horrendous Sept and a bad first month of 2020 that ended in an injury. What Benni was in the entirety of 2019 us kind of what he is in 2021 and 2022, a decent but unspectacular player, certainly worth more than 2 replacement level prospects and 3 highly unlikely to make the majors.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2022 21:08:13 GMT -5
these at bats - sheesh. dead team walking (actually, not walking - that would be something).
Cy Stripling mowing them down.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 23, 2022 21:09:57 GMT -5
He started sucking towards the end of 2019, he fell off a cliff in September of that year Players dont have a crappy month every now and then? That's one horrendous Sept and a bad first month of 2020 that ended in an injury. What Benni was in the entirety of 2019 us kind of what he is in 2021 and 2022, a decent but unspectacular player, certainly worth more than 2 replacement level prospects and 3 highly unlikely to make the majors. You can't presuppose the prospects are going to bust and simultaneously take for granted that Benintendi would even get back to 2019 levels.
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 23, 2022 21:10:41 GMT -5
One Silver Lining going forward is that the schedule will be balanced in the upcoming seasons, and the Sox won't be hindered by being in the AL East 🤷🏾♂️
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,196
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Post by cdj on Aug 23, 2022 21:11:14 GMT -5
Players dont have a crappy month every now and then? That's one horrendous Sept and a bad first month of 2020 that ended in an injury. What Benni was in the entirety of 2019 us kind of what he is in 2021 and 2022, a decent but unspectacular player, certainly worth more than 2 replacement level prospects and 3 highly unlikely to make the majors. You can't presuppose the prospects are going to bust and simultaneously take for granted that Benintendi would even get back to 2019 levels. MMQBing at its finest
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2022 21:11:52 GMT -5
I think Beni being a train wreck is overstated. For a year and a half he was about average. His 2020 season was what, 39 ABs before he got hurt? I dont put any stick in that. I was fine with trading him. You'd think that out of 5 players they get back for him, one could be average, but nope. Two are replacement level and the other 3 likely never sniff the majors. Good idea, but lackluster talent judgment. When we traded him he was 11 for his last 96 and looked absolutely useless at the plate. He had bulked up in the offseason to try to hit dingers and make more money, not to acquiesce to organizational wishes, and had ruined his swing in the process. His speed had also rapidly declined. Then he missed the rest of the season after his prolonged slump with an injury. The guy looked washed. He could just as easily have bombed out of the majors. I remember, 2 lousy months. Still, despite 96 lousy ABs, which is 57 ABs to end 2019 and 39 ABs in 2020 is still too small for me to say he's washed up. He obviously had the talent to revert to being average. He was just never going to be the Fred Lynn we hoped he'd be when he first came up.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 23, 2022 21:12:51 GMT -5
Thomas Walsh seems like such a great guy.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 23, 2022 21:13:37 GMT -5
When we traded him he was 11 for his last 96 and looked absolutely useless at the plate. He had bulked up in the offseason to try to hit dingers and make more money, not to acquiesce to organizational wishes, and had ruined his swing in the process. His speed had also rapidly declined. Then he missed the rest of the season after his prolonged slump with an injury. The guy looked washed. He could just as easily have bombed out of the majors. I remember, 2 lousy months. Still, despite 96 lousy ABs, which is 57 ABs to end 2019 and 39 ABs in 2020 is still too small for me to say he's washed up. He obviously had the talent to revert to being average. He was just never going to be the Fred Lynn we hoped he'd be when he first came up. I agree with you, and certainly the Royals agreed, given that they thought he was still worth enough to send a prospect package back for.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2022 21:15:48 GMT -5
You can't presuppose the prospects are going to bust and simultaneously take for granted that Benintendi would even get back to 2019 levels. MMQBing at its finest Not really. I didnt care that they traded him. I even liked it because I figured with 5 guys coming back one of them had to be useful but I'm damn disappointed they couldn't even get one guy who is useful.
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Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2022 21:16:02 GMT -5
Thomas Walsh seems like such a great guy. Is that this kid? The skier? He is really impressive.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 23, 2022 21:16:42 GMT -5
Thomas Walsh seems like such a great guy. Is that this kid? The skier? He is really impressive. Yep!
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 23, 2022 21:20:07 GMT -5
JBJ is 2-2 with a walk tonight, i am completely depressed. I wish he was 2-2 with 2 grand slams
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 23, 2022 21:21:36 GMT -5
Not really. I didnt care that they traded him. I even liked it because I figured with 5 guys coming back one of them had to be useful but I'm damn disappointed they couldn't even get one guy who is useful. Winckowski has made 12 starts in the majors as a 23 year old and you're already ready to write him off? De la Rosa apparently looks good so far too and he's quite young. Franchy has showed flashes, and while he's been bad on the whole, he was better than anyone else in the organization we could have plugged in. And even then, prospects are high variance. If 3/5 prospects make an impact in the majors that doesn't make the trade good. If 0/5 make an impact in the majors it doesn't make the trade bad. It is the nature of prospects that their outcomes are uncertain. If they weren't, they would be valued very differently.
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