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Poll and discussion about Alex Cora's managing job in 2022
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2022 18:21:19 GMT -5
Rain delay - time to discuss this, it seems - we've already analyzed Bloom to death.
My thoughts - even given the roster and injuries, I gave him a C - and I like Cora very much. I feel the team didn't come out of spring training crisply and prepared, and some of his bullpen decisions have been iffy.
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 23, 2022 19:58:22 GMT -5
It takes a brave man to create this post/poll, as Cora is akin to a Teflon Don in these parts.
I posted a "D" for his managerial exploits this year. The crutch bestowed to him for this season's injury history masks the headscratching decisions he's made on the field.
One in particular happened this past Sunday. He seemingly had Matt Barnes in a better place, having pitched consecutive "good innings" over multiple appearances. And instead of letting him hit the bench after having another clean inning, Cora brings him out for a 2nd inning and Barnes immediately puts a man on base - leading to a run scored. On top that Cora overuses Schreiber again, leading to diminishing returns from another relief pitching option.
It's games like that (which are a microcosm of him in-game management at times) where Cora's decisions have decreased the team's chances of winning against an average to better opponent.
Even in tonight's game, having Franchy at 1B minimizes the team's overall defense - putting the pitchers at a disadvantage when ground balls or lazy pop-ups are put in play.
I certainly recognize that Cora is a great people person. Players like CVaz (traded), Devers, Xander et al. love his communication skills and his way with the club house. That's a great skill he possesses compared to other managers.
However, those Interpersonal skills are severely hampered by his "gut" calls that put the players (Duran for example) and the team as a whole in bad positions - particularly on nights when the talent level between both teams are fairly even.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 23, 2022 20:18:08 GMT -5
Things I haven't liked:
Duran playing all those innings in CF
Needed to figure out that Arroyo can't play OF before spring training ended. Would have been nice if he could have spared us Travis Shaw's 0-19. The season would have played out a lot differently if Refsnyder was in the majors all year long.
He's pathologically afraid of using crappy relievers with a lead. This makes him do crazy stuff like sticking with Rich Hill the third time through the order while he's visibly injured (this happened twice in a month!). The game doesn't result in an automatic forfeit if a reliever with a four and a half ERA enters the game with a three run lead.
Overworking John Schreiber, who they have for four more years, after the season was dead.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2022 20:24:18 GMT -5
It takes a brave man to create this post/poll, as Cora is akin to a Teflon Don in these parts. I posted a "D" for his managerial exploits this year. The crutch bestowed to him for this season's injury history masks the headscratching decisions he's made on the field. One in particular happened this past Sunday. He seemingly had Matt Barnes in a better place, having pitched consecutive "good innings" over multiple appearances. And instead of letting him hit the bench after having another clean inning, Cora brings him out for a 2nd inning and Barnes immediately puts a man on base - leading to a run scored. On top that Cora overuses Schreiber again, leading to diminishing returns from another relief pitching option. It's games like that (which are a microcosm of him in-game management at times) where Cora's decisions have decreased the team's chances of winning against an average to better opponent. Even in tonight's game, having Franchy at 1B minimizes the team's overall defense - putting the pitchers at a disadvantage when ground balls or lazy pop-ups are put in play. I certainly recognize that Cora is a great people person. Players like CVaz (traded), Devers, Xander et al. love his communication skills and his way with the club house. That's a great skill he possesses compared to other managers. However, those Interpersonal skills are severely hampered by his "gut" calls that put the players (Duran for example) and the team as a whole in bad positions - particularly on nights when the talent level between both teams are fairly even. I am either a brave man or a silly man! But things seemed to be crying for this discussion.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2022 21:25:41 GMT -5
So - 11 C or D so far, 3 A or B.
Given that we are grading his handling of the team, realizing what the challenges have been - is he on the hot seat? As I mentioned a few times, Toronto canned their manager when the team was above .500 - and it's been all up from there.
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 23, 2022 21:35:03 GMT -5
I think Cora is beloved by the baseball media, particularly in Boston - so a firing would bring more derisive "anti-ownership/management" headlines. Additionally the fact they fired him previously, only to bring him back years later - Firing him a 2nd time would call ownership's decision-making in to question.
No to mention the blow back the team received for firing Terry Francona almost a decade ago.
I think The potential negative PR hit removes Cora from the Hot Seat in 2022.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 23, 2022 21:43:04 GMT -5
Bad year up and down the organization. Cora hasn't been an exception to that.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
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Post by nomar on Aug 23, 2022 21:44:27 GMT -5
Hard to blame Cora for much but if I had to nitpick, I didn’t like how often this team fell behind early and just gave up this season. They seemed to almost manifest their terrible play at times. Not sure how much of that falls on a manager who hasn’t had teams like this before, especially after last year. But that’s one unprovable gripe. Cora is doing fine. If he’s gone it would probably be because he wants to retire.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 23, 2022 21:50:07 GMT -5
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 23, 2022 21:55:22 GMT -5
This stat makes me impressed with the coaching staffs of the Twins and the Rays.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 23, 2022 21:56:15 GMT -5
Interesting info just posted above. Looking at the team with the most injured, Minnesota (29), Tampa (28), Phila (26) all solid teams or better.
As far as games lost, Dodgers, Twins and Rays all had more - and look where they are.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 24, 2022 11:49:20 GMT -5
Communication: I think his best strength is that he is liked by his players which is very important. He is regularly available post-game and manages to answer questions without saying much (probably a good thing). He has a reputation as being a great communicator but I am not sure where that comes from.... A few weeks ago, one of his highly touted rookies had a melt down. When asked if he spoke to him, Cora indicated that "the players handled it". When Duran was asked he said that no one had spoken to him. This seems like a communication breakdown to me....I am sure there are other examples of him handling things better.
Fundamentals: For several seasons now this team has not been ready coming out of spring training. We continue to see the Red Sox not know how many outs there are, throw to the wrong base, miss cutoffs, unable to catch popups, unable to catch flyballs, run into foolish outs on the bases. These are fundamentals that don't appear to be encouraged.....Granted a major league player should be fundamentally sound before reaching the majors, but it still needs to be reinforced as being important by management. I don't see evidence that this is the case.
Injuries: Clearly played a role in what he was/wasn't able to do. Perhaps that is bad luck but what role has Cora played in the injuries? Kiké, Sale & Story were not his fault, but what about Whitlock and how he was randomly moved to the rotation mid-season without much buildup... Schreiber has recently shown signs of wearing down from overuse....Are players playing out of position leading to injury?
Perception: Perhaps his biggest weakness (at least in my mind) is his previous involvement with cheating. I don't believe for a second that he was the only one doing so, but the fact that he has had limited success since returning from his suspension kinda adds to the negative perception.
There are no perfect managers and Cora is human like everyone else. I expect he will be the manager for 2023 and beyond. I just hope he can learn from the last few seasons.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 24, 2022 13:26:33 GMT -5
We're at 27% A or B, 73% C or D - including 19% D grade.
Seems Cora is being realistically evaluated - not a great average grade for a popular manager.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 24, 2022 16:24:55 GMT -5
He's been dealt a tough hand this year. No doubt. I've always thought he was excellent. But this year I (generously) gave him a D because his team does not play hard. They -- when I say "they" I mean the majority, including the best players -- do not grind ABs and they are a team full of joggers. GB to SS -- jog. Fly ball to OF -- jog. When these plays get mishandled the Sox are still out.
When the Braves came in it was like watching teams playing two different sports. One full of athletic scrappy hustling baseball players. The other, unathletic and uninterested in exerting more than minimal effort. (Verdugo, who used to run to first like a madman when he first got here, is now one of the chief offenders -- go figure).
I've always watched the full season, even when the team was not in contention. But these guys are easy to turn off. And then to have to listen to #HotTakeRadioGuy on the broadcast? Not a chance.
Anyways, D for me. And I'd fire him if it's more of the same next year. Mistakes I'll tolerate. Lack of effort, I won't.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,505
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 24, 2022 16:42:19 GMT -5
I vacillated between B and C and ultimately gave him a B, which I know is probably too high a grade, I just feel like Bloom didn't do him any favors with his cast of misfit toys and then for the second time in his career here he was hung out to dry at the trade deadline ultimately having to do the public speaking for the baseball ops side, which he clearly is frustrated with.
I agree with benoglivesbrother regarding fundamentals though. The defense has been to put it nicely, porous since 2018 basically. This team seems to have more quit than fight in them, whether that is the byproduct of injury or constantly getting kicked in the cajones, I can't quite say. It looks like a lack of effort, but honestly the whole team looks like it has PTSD.
It's been an ugly summer for Boston fans, and I cannot wait to put it in my rearview.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 24, 2022 16:46:09 GMT -5
We're at 27% A or B, 73% C or D - including 19% D grade. Seems Cora is being realistically evaluated - not a great average grade for a popular manager. I say C/D. I think the poor play is amplifying his mistakes a bit that in a good year managers wouldn't be so micro analyzed over. If they were in the WC he might get a B/C grade.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2022 17:02:54 GMT -5
I was semi-generous and gave Cora a C. The ridiculous amount of injuries are not his fault. He has so very little talent available. I think Bloom is more at fault for 2022 than Alex Cora is. I doubt that Cora and Bloom are on the same page.
I'm tired of seeing Duran in CF and Cordero at 1b. Today we get Dalbec at SS, instead of Kiké Hernandez. But again, is this really Cora's fault or is this more Bloom for leaving the Sox in such disarray?
I haven't cared for Cora's pitching decisions, but then again Bloom gave him a limited bullpen, so is it Cora's fault that he's blowing Schreiber. He should have used him as a closer instead of burning him out as an every day two inning reliever. Of course he has no other options to win a game.
His outfield defense is awful. Of course his best defensive outfielder who was miscast as a regular outfielder and now that they could have used him for late inning defense, he was released. Again, not Cora's fault.
So I really can't fairly judge Cora on managerial strategy.
So it comes down to the demeanor of the team, etc.
He is a great communicator as far as I can tell, but the play of this team is frustrating.
They have played like zombies for most of the season. They have zero heart. Again, not all Cora's fault, because you can see that the team leader is Bogaerts who has play in his walk year has been marred with injuries and disillusionment, which I really can't blame him for - here's a guy who really wants to stay with the Sox and knew he was underpaid for his talent level and performance, yet the offer given by Bloom kind of soured him. Not that he is a negative presence but it has spilled into the semi-dour demeanor of the team.
This is not a scrappy hustling team. It's very easy to tune this team out. I find that I have much better entertainment options that watching this team get their brains beat in as often as they do and it's not like they're pulling off exciting win after exciting win. If they're down in the 9th by a run you get the feeling they'll lose. If they're up a run in the 9th you get the feeling that they'll blow it. They're not a fun team to watch.
How much of that is on Cora? Probably some, but then again, not all his fault.
It's a bad situation in which he hasn't been able to help. I'm not sure anybody else could have done much better, so I have no problem with him returning.
But at some point, either he or Bloom might not see eye to eye or Cora might simply have enough of lackluster play like this and move on.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 24, 2022 17:29:22 GMT -5
I was semi-generous and gave Cora a C. The ridiculous amount of injuries are not his fault. He has so very little talent available. I think Bloom is more at fault for 2022 than Alex Cora is. I doubt that Cora and Bloom are on the same page. I'm tired of seeing Duran in CF and Cordero at 1b. Today we get Dalbec at SS, instead of Kiké Hernandez. But again, is this really Cora's fault or is this more Bloom for leaving the Sox in such disarray? Bogaerts, Story, Arroyo, Downs, and Peraza are all injured. Does that really have to be either Cora or Bloom's fault?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 24, 2022 18:44:24 GMT -5
I was semi-generous and gave Cora a C. The ridiculous amount of injuries are not his fault. He has so very little talent available. I think Bloom is more at fault for 2022 than Alex Cora is. I doubt that Cora and Bloom are on the same page. I'm tired of seeing Duran in CF and Cordero at 1b. Today we get Dalbec at SS, instead of Kiké Hernandez. But again, is this really Cora's fault or is this more Bloom for leaving the Sox in such disarray? Bogaerts, Story, Arroyo, Downs, and Peraza are all injured. Does that really have to be either Cora or Bloom's fault? Cora, no. Unless he was letting Xander play through an injury that a 10 day IL stint could have cured. Arroyo and Story I believe are both injury concerns. It's part of the package. Downs improved his play at SS, but his bat isn't worth him in the lineup at this point so to me it doesn't really matter if he's hurt or not, even in a pinch. But Cora had a broken team this year, that's not his fault and it wouldn't be a good year for many managers. That doesn't excuse very sloppy fundamentals, the team not looking ready to go at times, and of course eye occasional in-game decisions that every arm chair fan can second guess for every manager. I don't think he's been exceptional in any one area.
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 24, 2022 19:05:52 GMT -5
Bogaerts, Story, Arroyo, Downs, and Peraza are all injured. Does that really have to be either Cora or Bloom's fault? Cora, no. Unless he was letting Xander play through an injury that a 10 day IL stint could have cured. Arroyo and Story I believe are both injury concerns. It's part of the package. Downs improved his play at SS, but his bat isn't worth him in the lineup at this point so to me it doesn't really matter if he's hurt or not, even in a pinch. But Cora had a broken team this year, that's not his fault and it wouldn't be a good year for many managers. That doesn't excuse very sloppy fundamentals, the team not looking ready to go at times, and of course eye occasional in-game decisions that every arm chair fan can second guess for every manager. I don't think he's been exceptional in any one area. Trevor Story's % of games played by year since he was a fully time MLB player: 2017: 95% 2018: 97% 2019: 95% 2020: 98% 2021: 88% 2022: 65% He's never had a playing time issue until this year
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 24, 2022 19:15:17 GMT -5
Cora, no. Unless he was letting Xander play through an injury that a 10 day IL stint could have cured. Arroyo and Story I believe are both injury concerns. It's part of the package. Downs improved his play at SS, but his bat isn't worth him in the lineup at this point so to me it doesn't really matter if he's hurt or not, even in a pinch. But Cora had a broken team this year, that's not his fault and it wouldn't be a good year for many managers. That doesn't excuse very sloppy fundamentals, the team not looking ready to go at times, and of course eye occasional in-game decisions that every arm chair fan can second guess for every manager. I don't think he's been exceptional in any one area. Trevor Story's % of games played by year since he was a fully time MLB player: 2017: 95% 2018: 97% 2019: 95% 2020: 98% 2021: 88% 2022: 65% He's never had a playing time issue until this year Hmm that's interesting. The narrative of him being hurt though seems to be there though. roxpile.com/2021/05/28/colorado-rockies-trevor-story-injury-history-updates/
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 28, 2022 20:57:30 GMT -5
Roughly 20% A or B, 80% C or D. Not inspiring many of us this season, it seems.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 28, 2022 21:43:15 GMT -5
Roughly 20% A or B, 80% C or D. Not inspiring many of us this season, it seems. We can all agree that Cora was not dealt a strong hand. And no manager is perfect. Baseball does not allow that. But the list of Cora’s shortcomings does not begin this year. And if he were not so popular with so many of his players, he might well be on his way out. I am ready to see him gone, but I am guessing that he will see his way through the winter.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 29, 2022 17:59:32 GMT -5
Cora (and Bloom) both coming back in 2023. Not surprised
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Post by jerryu on Aug 29, 2022 22:16:39 GMT -5
Last year we thought Cora’s in game management was excellent and Bloom had us on a good long strategy. It’s hard to believe they both became dumb this year. year.
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