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Is There a New Core, or...
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 13, 2022 10:40:18 GMT -5
Calling Contreras a 2 at this point is wild. Take a look at his savant page, and tell me if you think that translates into a 2 Fine… but it is hard to point to a list and say “look, it says our farm is good,” then say it is not accurate elsewhere. If they are off, then it doesn’t help support the former claim. Not sure my reply included the quote I was responding to, I was replying to the guy who was calling Roasny Contreras a number 2 pitcher. I think there was too much text to carry over
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 13, 2022 11:18:07 GMT -5
“It is a different landscape now and we shouldn’t rule anything out,” Bloom said,
There will be no "core" because Bloom apparently keeps hoping the market will shake out in his favor, but the market is accelerating away from him. While I doubt X could have been locked up last off season, Devers (via his mouthpiece Pepen) was ready. The range was 10/300 ask vs. 10/240 offers. With the new landscape, Devers is now looking for 12/360. Dombrowski was overly decisive, but Bloom is far too indecisive to make any commitments (or hard decisions like the trade deadline waffle). If he refuses to commit to any core, we will not have any.
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Post by curtisw on Dec 13, 2022 11:24:52 GMT -5
I don’t really think Pepen is Devers’ mouthpiece or really has any connection to him. Pepen seems like pure clickbait, just saying inflammatory or intriguing things. I really have never gotten the sense he’s at all to be taken seriously. The 12/360 stuff is likely just speculation but it’s also not totally crazy speculation. The price for Devers is definitely north of 300 now and I think there’s no chance really we keep him. Hope I am wrong obviously. Don’t want him for 12/360. That is 11/280 territory for sure.
So yeah at some point we will have something like a brand new core.
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 15, 2022 12:37:47 GMT -5
Those rankings are actually slightly discouraging. We finished last in 2022, and 2 teams ahead of us *also* have better farms… and the Yankees are one slot behind us?? I don’t think I realized the talent gap worked all the way through the systems. Calling Contreras a 2 at this point is wild. Take a look at his savant page, and tell me if you think that translates into a 2 Nobody called Contreras a two, looks like he could become a 2 much like we say Bello can. He just turned 23 and has about 100 innings of Mlb ball in him with insane k rates in the minors. Let’s not act like anything outrageous was said here He was top 50 prospect, some have potential as an ace. Again this was part of a counter point to the statement “ cherrington’s returns from his pirates trades already look bad” Which couldn’t be further from the truth at this point
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Post by Guidas on Dec 16, 2022 7:43:00 GMT -5
Speaking of a core, one way to do that is to build the farm through trades. A lot of people here give Bloom credit for doing so, but this piece by Chad Jennings in the Athletic today questions the effectiveness of the Front Office's prospect player evaluation. Sox Prospects is also prominently cited(!). Excerpt: Under Bloom, the Red Sox have executed 24 trades. In all but eight, prospects were a key piece of the return. Twelve of the trades involved giving up at least one experienced big league player or taking on the salary dump of an opposing big league player. Nine or so — depending on where you draw the prospect line — brought back notable prospects with perceived big-league upside. All told, the Red Sox acquired 25 minor leaguers via trade, and the return has been minimal so far. Of those 25 minor leaguers:
Five have since reached the Major Leagues. Four have been designated for assignment. Six currently rank among the system’s top 30 prospects according to SoxProspects.com. None rank in Baseball America’s Top 10. Twelve have been exposed to the Rule 5 draft or else released into minor league free agency.
Those numbers do not include major league trade additions Jackie Bradley Jr., Hoy Park, Franchy Cordero, Austin Davis, Austin Brice and Matt Hall, all of whom were also designated for assignment after underwhelming — or, in the case of Park, nonexistent — stints on the Red Sox roster. According to FanGraphs, the only Red Sox trade additions worth at least 2 WAR the past three years were Alex Verdugo (5.1) and Nick Pivetta (3.9). Next highest on the list were Reese McGuire (1.3), Kyle Schwarber (1.2) and Adam Ottavino (0.6).
Of the 25 minor league additions, only Connor Wong, Franklin German and Josh Winckowski seem to have even modest opportunities to make the big league team this spring. Enmanuel Valdez, at No. 16, is the only one who currently ranks as a top 20 organizational prospect on SoxProspects.com, which calls him a “potential up-and-down, platoon bat.”
Jennings does admit, however: And, frankly, trading for prospects is inherently high risk. Bloom’s predecessor famously took an opposite approach, willingly giving up a series of prospects, including some with tremendous perceived potential at the time. Very few, if any, have reached that tremendous upside since being traded. Even Yoán Moncada, the biggest name dealt away under Dombrowski, has only two particularly good seasons in his six years with the White Sox.
In other words, plenty of teams swing and miss when they trade for prospects. But some of the Red Sox’s swings have been pretty big, and so the whiffs have been notable, especially with the team struggling to keep its head consistently above water.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 16, 2022 9:03:15 GMT -5
Speaking of a core, one way to do that is to build the farm through trades. A lot of people here give Bloom credit for doing so, but this piece by Chad Jennings in the Athletic today questions the effectiveness of the Front Office's prospect player evaluation. Sox Prospects is also prominently cited(!). Excerpt: Under Bloom, the Red Sox have executed 24 trades. In all but eight, prospects were a key piece of the return. Twelve of the trades involved giving up at least one experienced big league player or taking on the salary dump of an opposing big league player. Nine or so — depending on where you draw the prospect line — brought back notable prospects with perceived big-league upside. All told, the Red Sox acquired 25 minor leaguers via trade, and the return has been minimal so far. Of those 25 minor leaguers:
Five have since reached the Major Leagues. Four have been designated for assignment. Six currently rank among the system’s top 30 prospects according to SoxProspects.com. None rank in Baseball America’s Top 10. Twelve have been exposed to the Rule 5 draft or else released into minor league free agency.
Those numbers do not include major league trade additions Jackie Bradley Jr., Hoy Park, Franchy Cordero, Austin Davis, Austin Brice and Matt Hall, all of whom were also designated for assignment after underwhelming — or, in the case of Park, nonexistent — stints on the Red Sox roster. According to FanGraphs, the only Red Sox trade additions worth at least 2 WAR the past three years were Alex Verdugo (5.1) and Nick Pivetta (3.9). Next highest on the list were Reese McGuire (1.3), Kyle Schwarber (1.2) and Adam Ottavino (0.6).
Of the 25 minor league additions, only Connor Wong, Franklin German and Josh Winckowski seem to have even modest opportunities to make the big league team this spring. Enmanuel Valdez, at No. 16, is the only one who currently ranks as a top 20 organizational prospect on SoxProspects.com, which calls him a “potential up-and-down, platoon bat.”
The overall point is debatable, but just in the abstract this record looks... perfectly fine? And if a trade return for one month of Mitch Moreland doesn't work out, is that really cause for criticism?
"They've only gotten 12 WAR out of trade acquisitions." And how much did they send away? Again, seems fine, if not somewhat impressive.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 16, 2022 9:17:56 GMT -5
Speaking of a core, one way to do that is to build the farm through trades. A lot of people here give Bloom credit for doing so, but this piece by Chad Jennings in the Athletic today questions the effectiveness of the Front Office's prospect player evaluation. Sox Prospects is also prominently cited(!). Excerpt: Under Bloom, the Red Sox have executed 24 trades. In all but eight, prospects were a key piece of the return. Twelve of the trades involved giving up at least one experienced big league player or taking on the salary dump of an opposing big league player. Nine or so — depending on where you draw the prospect line — brought back notable prospects with perceived big-league upside. All told, the Red Sox acquired 25 minor leaguers via trade, and the return has been minimal so far. Of those 25 minor leaguers:
Five have since reached the Major Leagues. Four have been designated for assignment. Six currently rank among the system’s top 30 prospects according to SoxProspects.com. None rank in Baseball America’s Top 10. Twelve have been exposed to the Rule 5 draft or else released into minor league free agency.
Those numbers do not include major league trade additions Jackie Bradley Jr., Hoy Park, Franchy Cordero, Austin Davis, Austin Brice and Matt Hall, all of whom were also designated for assignment after underwhelming — or, in the case of Park, nonexistent — stints on the Red Sox roster. According to FanGraphs, the only Red Sox trade additions worth at least 2 WAR the past three years were Alex Verdugo (5.1) and Nick Pivetta (3.9). Next highest on the list were Reese McGuire (1.3), Kyle Schwarber (1.2) and Adam Ottavino (0.6).
Of the 25 minor league additions, only Connor Wong, Franklin German and Josh Winckowski seem to have even modest opportunities to make the big league team this spring. Enmanuel Valdez, at No. 16, is the only one who currently ranks as a top 20 organizational prospect on SoxProspects.com, which calls him a “potential up-and-down, platoon bat.”
The overall point is debatable, but just in the abstract this record looks... perfectly fine? And if a trade return for one month of Mitch Moreland doesn't work out, is that really cause for criticism?
"They've only gotten 12 WAR out of trade acquisitions." And how much did they send away? Again, seems fine, if not somewhat impressive. And it's also ignoring a lot of context. Like Inmer Lobo for Hoy Park is a trade for prospects, I guess, but it was pretty clearly done to see if Park could clear waivers and become AAA depth. Similarly choosing a 2 WAR threshold and then throwing out guys like Reese McGuire and Schwarber who got close, despite their tenure only being like two months each, is kind of silly. Like, pro-rate the WAR or don't bother. Then there's trading players at the deadline in 2020, as you alluded to; those guys weren't going to help us regardless, and it's unlikely for us to get a meaningful haul for the likes of two months of Kevin Pillar. Even hitting on one out of a handful of those deals, like the Pivetta deal, is huge...The article also doesn't consider remaining team control. There are two more years of Verdugo, three more years of McGuire, six years for Wong + current prospects, etc., so even if the trades were 100% balanced in outcomes it would make sense for the Sox to have reaped less of a reward so far. Honestly I haven't been very impressed with The Athletic's Sox coverage. The frequency of the articles is nice, but I don't often learn much. I had a free year via T-Mobile a few years back and did not re-up.
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Post by manfred on Dec 16, 2022 9:29:16 GMT -5
Speaking of a core, one way to do that is to build the farm through trades. A lot of people here give Bloom credit for doing so, but this piece by Chad Jennings in the Athletic today questions the effectiveness of the Front Office's prospect player evaluation. Sox Prospects is also prominently cited(!). Excerpt: Under Bloom, the Red Sox have executed 24 trades. In all but eight, prospects were a key piece of the return. Twelve of the trades involved giving up at least one experienced big league player or taking on the salary dump of an opposing big league player. Nine or so — depending on where you draw the prospect line — brought back notable prospects with perceived big-league upside. All told, the Red Sox acquired 25 minor leaguers via trade, and the return has been minimal so far. Of those 25 minor leaguers:
Five have since reached the Major Leagues. Four have been designated for assignment. Six currently rank among the system’s top 30 prospects according to SoxProspects.com. None rank in Baseball America’s Top 10. Twelve have been exposed to the Rule 5 draft or else released into minor league free agency.
Those numbers do not include major league trade additions Jackie Bradley Jr., Hoy Park, Franchy Cordero, Austin Davis, Austin Brice and Matt Hall, all of whom were also designated for assignment after underwhelming — or, in the case of Park, nonexistent — stints on the Red Sox roster. According to FanGraphs, the only Red Sox trade additions worth at least 2 WAR the past three years were Alex Verdugo (5.1) and Nick Pivetta (3.9). Next highest on the list were Reese McGuire (1.3), Kyle Schwarber (1.2) and Adam Ottavino (0.6).
Of the 25 minor league additions, only Connor Wong, Franklin German and Josh Winckowski seem to have even modest opportunities to make the big league team this spring. Enmanuel Valdez, at No. 16, is the only one who currently ranks as a top 20 organizational prospect on SoxProspects.com, which calls him a “potential up-and-down, platoon bat.”
The overall point is debatable, but just in the abstract this record looks... perfectly fine? And if a trade return for one month of Mitch Moreland doesn't work out, is that really cause for criticism?
"They've only gotten 12 WAR out of trade acquisitions." And how much did they send away? Again, seems fine, if not somewhat impressive. All I’ll say is this is a Rorschach test. To your 12 WAR question: Mookie, Beni, and Renfroe were over 12 WAR last year alone. To which folks will respond, but the money! To which others will respond the opportunity costs! etc. It is true that many of these are minor trades and so lumping it together might not tell an accurate story. So some will say who cares about the small trades? And others will say well of the 2+ WAR guys who played elsewhere (thus the moderately significant or greater trades) what was the return? To which people will say let’s wait! To which others will say we waited for Downs! etc. And on.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 16, 2022 9:29:32 GMT -5
Speaking of a core, one way to do that is to build the farm through trades. A lot of people here give Bloom credit for doing so, but this piece by Chad Jennings in the Athletic today questions the effectiveness of the Front Office's prospect player evaluation. Sox Prospects is also prominently cited(!). Excerpt: Under Bloom, the Red Sox have executed 24 trades. In all but eight, prospects were a key piece of the return. Twelve of the trades involved giving up at least one experienced big league player or taking on the salary dump of an opposing big league player. Nine or so — depending on where you draw the prospect line — brought back notable prospects with perceived big-league upside. All told, the Red Sox acquired 25 minor leaguers via trade, and the return has been minimal so far. Of those 25 minor leaguers:
Five have since reached the Major Leagues. Four have been designated for assignment. Six currently rank among the system’s top 30 prospects according to SoxProspects.com. None rank in Baseball America’s Top 10. Twelve have been exposed to the Rule 5 draft or else released into minor league free agency.
Those numbers do not include major league trade additions Jackie Bradley Jr., Hoy Park, Franchy Cordero, Austin Davis, Austin Brice and Matt Hall, all of whom were also designated for assignment after underwhelming — or, in the case of Park, nonexistent — stints on the Red Sox roster. According to FanGraphs, the only Red Sox trade additions worth at least 2 WAR the past three years were Alex Verdugo (5.1) and Nick Pivetta (3.9). Next highest on the list were Reese McGuire (1.3), Kyle Schwarber (1.2) and Adam Ottavino (0.6).
Of the 25 minor league additions, only Connor Wong, Franklin German and Josh Winckowski seem to have even modest opportunities to make the big league team this spring. Enmanuel Valdez, at No. 16, is the only one who currently ranks as a top 20 organizational prospect on SoxProspects.com, which calls him a “potential up-and-down, platoon bat.”
The overall point is debatable, but just in the abstract this record looks... perfectly fine? And if a trade return for one month of Mitch Moreland doesn't work out, is that really cause for criticism?
"They've only gotten 12 WAR out of trade acquisitions." And how much did they send away? Again, seems fine, if not somewhat impressive. Mookie Betts: 13.2 Andrew Benintendi: 4.5 Hunter Renfroe: 2.5 David Price: 0.8 About 21.0 fWAR here. Might be more.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 16, 2022 9:43:55 GMT -5
The overall point is debatable, but just in the abstract this record looks... perfectly fine? And if a trade return for one month of Mitch Moreland doesn't work out, is that really cause for criticism?
"They've only gotten 12 WAR out of trade acquisitions." And how much did they send away? Again, seems fine, if not somewhat impressive. Mookie Betts: 13.2 Andrew Benintendi: 4.5 Hunter Renfroe: 2.5 David Price: 0.8 About 21.0 fWAR here. Might be more. Mookie Betts did not have a 13 WAR season in 2020. The actual relevant number is 2.8. Using the real number shows that the Red Sox have already come out ahead in major league WAR teams even before counting prospect value.
If you want to give LA "credit" for getting 0.8 WAR out of Price, then you ought to include the benefit to Boston, which was the reason they traded him - saving $48 million over 3 years. (Exchanging less than 1 WAR for $48 million seems like a pretty good deal to me.)
The Benintendi trade was fine as he was immediately replaced by Renfroe. Winckowski could still make that a net plus if he turns into a decent reliever.
The Renfroe trade looks bad but if the question is whether they've gotten value out of the prospects they've traded for, that is 100% TBD with the Renfroe trade.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 16, 2022 10:28:43 GMT -5
How is Bloom's full trading record a debate yet again!? Julyannmorley has the spreadsheet pinned, numbers are all there, and we've had this same argument 1000 times. This article said nothing that hasn't already been covered by the posters here.
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 16, 2022 10:34:40 GMT -5
Please people just call at as it is.
Blooms return for Betts was bad
Bloom’s trade of Benny was atrocious and was stupid at the time. Trading him at an all time low value after a an injured outlier 2020 season in which he had like 60 at bats.
His Renfroe trade was moronic and even more so when he didn’t bother to get a right handed bat.
The guy whole 2022 deadline was moronic. We were not a playoff team, if you wanted to sell yourself on being 4 games out of an added wild card spot then you should be cheering with the fans and not running an FO
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Post by awalkinthepark on Dec 16, 2022 10:41:19 GMT -5
I can't remember the piece it was in recently but someone had said that front offices are more reluctant to deal away prospects now than they have been in the past because you don't want to get burned on a trade. If that is the case then that to me explains some of these really weird trades, not just what Bloom has done but also stuff like the Murphy trade. If all the guys with really good prospect pedigrees are off the board, then the only ones left available are guys who have some flags for one reason or another. So maybe the idea now is you look for undervalued prospects that are maybe really toolsy but have some warts, which is what allows them to be moved in the first place, and then hope that a swing change can unlock a totally different player.
Idk, that is my theory for the weird collection of prospects Bloom has obtained.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 16, 2022 10:45:50 GMT -5
Please people just call at as it is. Blooms return for Betts was bad Bloom’s trade of Benny was atrocious and was stupid at the time. Trading him at an all time low value after a an injured outlier 2020 season in which he had like 60 at bats. His Renfroe trade was moronic and even more so when he didn’t bother to get a right handed bat. The guy whole 2022 deadline was moronic. We were not a playoff team, if you wanted to sell yourself on being 4 games out of an added wild card spot then you should be cheering with the fans and not running an FO FFS enough about the trade deadline and Betts trade. What else is there to debate about them at this point
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 16, 2022 10:51:25 GMT -5
I can't remember the piece it was in recently but someone had said that front offices are more reluctant to deal away prospects now than they have been in the past because you don't want to get burned on a trade. If that is the case then that to me explains some of these really weird trades, not just what Bloom has done but also stuff like the Murphy trade. If all the guys with really good prospect pedigrees are off the board, then the only ones left available are guys who have some flags for one reason or another. So maybe the idea now is you look for undervalued prospects that are maybe really toolsy but have some warts, which is what allows them to be moved in the first place, and then hope that a swing change can unlock a totally different player. Idk, that is my theory for the weird collection of prospects Bloom has obtained. My theory is he's chasing more major league close to ready players at position of need than best prospects available. That's usually a horrible strategy.
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Post by manfred on Dec 16, 2022 10:55:09 GMT -5
Please people just call at as it is. Blooms return for Betts was bad Bloom’s trade of Benny was atrocious and was stupid at the time. Trading him at an all time low value after a an injured outlier 2020 season in which he had like 60 at bats. His Renfroe trade was moronic and even more so when he didn’t bother to get a right handed bat. The guy whole 2022 deadline was moronic. We were not a playoff team, if you wanted to sell yourself on being 4 games out of an added wild card spot then you should be cheering with the fans and not running an FO FFS enough about the trade deadline and Betts trade. What else is there to debate about them at this point In fairness, Downs’s DFA was covered nationally. It is, in fact, a new twist. So it seems natural people would follow that national evaluation to discuss. That is all.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 16, 2022 11:00:14 GMT -5
Please people just call at as it is. Blooms return for Betts was bad Bloom’s trade of Benny was atrocious and was stupid at the time. Trading him at an all time low value after a an injured outlier 2020 season in which he had like 60 at bats. His Renfroe trade was moronic and even more so when he didn’t bother to get a right handed bat. The guy whole 2022 deadline was moronic. We were not a playoff team, if you wanted to sell yourself on being 4 games out of an added wild card spot then you should be cheering with the fans and not running an FO FFS enough about the trade deadline and Betts trade. What else is there to debate about them at this point Bogaerts just walked for a 4th round pick, you haven't resigned Eovaldi or Wacha. If anything Bloom needs to be getting killed more for deadline than he is. 3 straight years of trading major league talent that weakened the roster in the name of rebuilding the farm system. I hated it, yet could at least see a plan even if the execution was horrible. Then the deadline, now I question if Bloom even has a plan. Turns down a haul of prospects and doesn't get under luxury tax.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 16, 2022 19:22:54 GMT -5
Highly doubt there was any sort of "haul" to be turned down
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 16, 2022 23:43:30 GMT -5
Please people just call at as it is. Blooms return for Betts was bad Bloom’s trade of Benny was atrocious and was stupid at the time. Trading him at an all time low value after a an injured outlier 2020 season in which he had like 60 at bats. His Renfroe trade was moronic and even more so when he didn’t bother to get a right handed bat. The guy whole 2022 deadline was moronic. We were not a playoff team, if you wanted to sell yourself on being 4 games out of an added wild card spot then you should be cheering with the fans and not running an FO FFS enough about the trade deadline and Betts trade. What else is there to debate about them at this point Apparently a lot left to debate for blooms fans basically ignoring his whole record with the Sox
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 17, 2022 0:49:12 GMT -5
FFS enough about the trade deadline and Betts trade. What else is there to debate about them at this point Apparently a lot left to debate for blooms fans basically ignoring his whole record with the Sox Nahh man, we just don't want to keep beating the same dead ****ing horse over and over and over again
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 17, 2022 9:46:06 GMT -5
Apparently a lot left to debate for blooms fans basically ignoring his whole record with the Sox Nahh man, we just don't want to keep beating the same dead ****ing horse over and over and over again You do when every move there after makes the prior ones looks even worse or illogical. There is mounting evidence that bloom doesn’t have a coherent plan or worse that he is afraid to fail. Speier noted ownership will and has ceded to baseball ops but if they disagree they let it be known baseball ops will pay consequences. See DD after the sale and eovaldi extensions Also you are acting like the trade deadline was 2 years ago. The lack of action there is having real consequences now in the off-season. Or another way put this off-season is making our trade deadline look that much dumber
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Post by manfred on Dec 17, 2022 9:49:54 GMT -5
Apparently a lot left to debate for blooms fans basically ignoring his whole record with the Sox Nahh man, we just don't want to keep beating the same dead ****ing horse over and over and over again Beating a dead horse is such an interesting idiom. Really, beating a dead horse is perfectly harmless. Implied, however, is that you were formerly beating a live horse and can now consider your work done. But beating a live horse is barbaric. So I say feel free to beat dead horses, but please treat live horses with compassion. That’s all.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 17, 2022 10:01:03 GMT -5
The overall point is debatable, but just in the abstract this record looks... perfectly fine? And if a trade return for one month of Mitch Moreland doesn't work out, is that really cause for criticism?
"They've only gotten 12 WAR out of trade acquisitions." And how much did they send away? Again, seems fine, if not somewhat impressive. And it's also ignoring a lot of context. Like Inmer Lobo for Hoy Park is a trade for prospects, I guess, but it was pretty clearly done to see if Park could clear waivers and become AAA depth. Similarly choosing a 2 WAR threshold and then throwing out guys like Reese McGuire and Schwarber who got close, despite their tenure only being like two months each, is kind of silly. Like, pro-rate the WAR or don't bother. Then there's trading players at the deadline in 2020, as you alluded to; those guys weren't going to help us regardless, and it's unlikely for us to get a meaningful haul for the likes of two months of Kevin Pillar. Even hitting on one out of a handful of those deals, like the Pivetta deal, is huge...The article also doesn't consider remaining team control. There are two more years of Verdugo, three more years of McGuire, six years for Wong + current prospects, etc., so even if the trades were 100% balanced in outcomes it would make sense for the Sox to have reaped less of a reward so far. Honestly I haven't been very impressed with The Athletic's Sox coverage. The frequency of the articles is nice, but I don't often learn much. I had a free year via T-Mobile a few years back and did not re-up. All good points by you to the point it makes you wonder if the writer is lacking an understanding of WAR etc, or has an agenda.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 18, 2022 10:32:41 GMT -5
Just a different theory. Maybe Bloom is really not interested in free agency. Maybe he feels all the answers are in our minor league system. But he knows not to say this to reporters he gives them those typical lines he keeps saying. But really behind the scenes he feels these kids are not far away from making the team. He sold this to the ownership and there willing to go with it. Internally but externally they keep giving us the typical answers .
One thing I do have a beef with Bloom he kept saying his hands were tied until this off-season . Unless that was also lip service.
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Post by jmei on Dec 18, 2022 12:12:59 GMT -5
I moved all of the discussion of front offices of the past to a new thread. As a reminder, you can start a new thread to discuss a new topic that splinters off from an existing thread and we encourage you to do so.
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