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Post by nonothing on Aug 5, 2023 11:17:13 GMT -5
I keep thinking Dan Uggla as a Yorke comp: only a 109 wRC+ (.241/.336/.447) and bad second base defense (-64 DRS in his career), but that was still good enough for a 23 WAR career. The offensive bar just isn't that high at second base. Uggla sounds right. So I what is comp for Bonaci? Is it Alex Cora, or a regular? Just trying to understand the disconnect and why Bonaci objectively ranks below (unless just due to being one rung lower). MLB.com has Bonaci Field: 55, Arm: 65. Maybe Mods here see the defense as less good based on the profile re: fielding?
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Post by incandenza on Aug 5, 2023 12:02:38 GMT -5
I keep thinking Dan Uggla as a Yorke comp: only a 109 wRC+ (.241/.336/.447) and bad second base defense (-64 DRS in his career), but that was still good enough for a 23 WAR career. The offensive bar just isn't that high at second base. Uggla sounds right. So I what is comp for Bonaci? Is it Alex Cora, or a regular? Just trying to understand the disconnect and why Bonaci objectively ranks below (unless just due to being one rung lower). MLB.com has Bonaci Field: 55, Arm: 65. Maybe Mods here see the defense as less good based on the profile re: fielding? The views of this site seem pretty clear if you read the player pages.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 5, 2023 12:15:54 GMT -5
The question wasn't to me and I don't know the answers to your questions but I wanted to make one comment. Valdez' defensive ceiling is lower than Yorke's present defense. I doubt if Yorke will ever be a plus defender but average defender seems highly likely. Valdez pretty much has no shot at that. You want a comp. ? Think Ian Kinsler. Yorke is likely going to be a major league regular but, 2B only, I doubt if that will be with the Red Sox. Ian Kinsler won 2x gold gloves. Doesn't seem like the right comp. Yeah my bad, I was thinking physically. Valdez is a bit of a statue. I'm expecting Yorke to be a solid steady defender but not at all flashy.
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Post by nonothing on Aug 5, 2023 13:20:42 GMT -5
Uggla sounds right. So I what is comp for Bonaci? Is it Alex Cora, or a regular? Just trying to understand the disconnect and why Bonaci objectively ranks below (unless just due to being one rung lower). MLB.com has Bonaci Field: 55, Arm: 65. Maybe Mods here see the defense as less good based on the profile re: fielding? The views of this site seem pretty clear if you read the player pages. Fair enough - I guess I am wondering if the fielding view on Bonaci might be stale in either place. There is rarely such a big difference between their rating of a tool and other sites. But different people do have different views, so could just be simple case of seeing the player differently. It is interesting hearing the Valdez's defense is more bad than ok. I didn't see enough of his fielding opps to evaluate when he was up.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 5, 2023 15:39:21 GMT -5
Ian Kinsler won 2x gold gloves. Doesn't seem like the right comp. Jeter won five.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,827
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 5, 2023 16:08:56 GMT -5
Ian Kinsler won 2x gold gloves. Doesn't seem like the right comp. Jeter won five. Doesn't mean as much sometimes
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,827
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 5, 2023 16:13:37 GMT -5
Love me some Teel! He will move as fast has his D. Fairly solid already! Really fortunate he was available when we picked. Really looking forward to watching his development
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 5, 2023 16:21:11 GMT -5
Kinsler is a hall of very good guy. Like one step removed from HOF caliber and an unfair comp for any player
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Post by ephus on Aug 5, 2023 17:45:27 GMT -5
Oh my. Things at Fenway look gloomy but this Top 10 is a thing of beauty.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 5, 2023 17:57:30 GMT -5
Oh my. Things at Fenway look gloomy but this Top 10 is a thing of beauty. Not so gloomy at the moment: stay tuned.
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Post by chaimtime on Aug 6, 2023 10:12:10 GMT -5
This seems as good a place as any to ask about one thing I’m a little confused about—in Bonaci’s write up, he’s described as having an athletic build with speed that plays up due to his athleticism, but his fielding profile says his lack of athleticism may limit his defensive value. I may be misunderstanding but this seems contradictory to me. Am I missing something?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 6, 2023 20:43:32 GMT -5
This seems as good a place as any to ask about one thing I’m a little confused about—in Bonaci’s write up, he’s described as having an athletic build with speed that plays up due to his athleticism, but his fielding profile says his lack of athleticism may limit his defensive value. I may be misunderstanding but this seems contradictory to me. Am I missing something? I'm not sure if one or the other is dated but Bonaci put on some noticeable muscle this past off season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 6, 2023 22:00:14 GMT -5
This seems as good a place as any to ask about one thing I’m a little confused about—in Bonaci’s write up, he’s described as having an athletic build with speed that plays up due to his athleticism, but his fielding profile says his lack of athleticism may limit his defensive value. I may be misunderstanding but this seems contradictory to me. Am I missing something? I'm not sure if one or the other is dated but Bonaci put on some noticeable muscle this past off season. Yeah my guess is something slipped through an update. We'll look.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2023 14:41:23 GMT -5
Interesting.
For about a month now and continuing with the Red Sox, Abreu has essentially been what we hope Anthony will be.
Rankings shakeup coming ?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 24, 2023 15:47:34 GMT -5
Interesting. For about a month now and continuing with the Red Sox, Abreu has essentially been what we hope Anthony will be. Rankings shakeup coming ? Based on Abreu hitting incredibly well for a month? I think you know the answer to that one. He's had a solid campaign overall and the fact that the team was comfortable calling him up is a useful data point, but I wouldn't expect a 10-spot jump or something. Could move up certainly. I had him at 20 on my list last month. Might bump him a bit?
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Post by Guidas on Aug 24, 2023 17:51:13 GMT -5
Interesting. For about a month now and continuing with the Red Sox, Abreu has essentially been what we hope Anthony will be.Rankings shakeup coming ? I love the optimism, but how about we look at this same time next year? I mean it was two MLB games against the team that traded him. We have to see if he'll even be with the team on opening day next year. And between then and now, other teams will open the book on him. A lot of video out there from AA and AAA. He has big pop and seems to know how to hang in at the plate, but there's some chase there and a hole in the swing. It will be fun to see how they use him the next week. Lance Lynn on Friday might play into Abreu's strengths, but then there's Urias on Saturday and the elusive TBD on Sunday.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2023 18:16:10 GMT -5
The all around package is there, do the scouting view. He's listed at #23, a 10 spot (or more) jump doesn't seem at all out of line IF he continues to perform at anywhere near the current pace, there's still 35 games left in the season. A lot can happen either way.
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Post by pappyman99 on Aug 24, 2023 18:24:25 GMT -5
I'd say he definitely should be ranked ahead of Valdez without much thought. Not much of an argument can be made at all for Valdez being a better offensive player, and his defense is way worse. Pretty sure Abreu is a tad younger as well
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 24, 2023 18:32:23 GMT -5
what's going on with Nazzan. That bonus made me think he was going to be a stud from day 1. I haven't got to see much but I'm seeing bad results. He in any danger of falling out of the top 10?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 24, 2023 18:33:34 GMT -5
The all around package is there, do the scouting view. He's listed at #23, a 10 spot (or more) jump doesn't seem at all out of line IF he continues to perform at anywhere near the current pace, there's still 35 games left in the season. A lot can happen either way. A key here is that everyone between 12 and 30 are projected as 40 (up and down) players, so a small step forward can push him above a bunch of guys. At the very least his floor should be up to a 40 as he's already reached that level. I'm gonna guess 16 next month, right behind the young guys.
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Post by kd35 on Aug 24, 2023 18:37:20 GMT -5
what's going on with Nazzan. That bonus made me think he was going to be a stud from day 1. I haven't got to see much but I'm seeing bad results. He in any danger of falling out of the top 10? Would give him a bit more than 12 games before we say he is not a stud.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 24, 2023 20:07:36 GMT -5
what's going on with Nazzan. That bonus made me think he was going to be a stud from day 1. I haven't got to see much but I'm seeing bad results. He in any danger of falling out of the top 10? What did you think about the 0.267/0.352/0.307 line that Mookie Betts put up in his first year (which would be next year for Nazzan)?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 25, 2023 11:23:17 GMT -5
I'd say he definitely should be ranked ahead of Valdez without much thought. Not much of an argument can be made at all for Valdez being a better offensive player, and his defense is way worse. Pretty sure Abreu is a tad younger as well Strong disagree on the bolded. Their season numbers were pretty close at the time Valdez went on the IL in July (OPS was .843 to .847), and that includes Valdez's time in the majors, where he took his lumps. In August, since Valdez came off the IL he's shown clear rust whereas this month was when Abreu went off. They both are way better against RHP than LHP. To be clear, I'm not saying I'd begrudge anyone having Abreu ahead of Valdez. Perfectly reasonable opinion to have there. I'm just pushing back on the idea that it's clear that one or the other is better offensively.
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Post by bg23 on Aug 25, 2023 12:34:58 GMT -5
I don’t have the underlying metrics, but what had me highest on Abreu even prior to his hot August was the reduction in strikeout rate with a still strong walk rate. I think the biggest question for Abreu is always going to be related to his ability to make enough contact in the zone to keep the whiff rate reasonable and get to his raw power. Seems unlikely he will ever be anything more than a platoon bat given the struggles with lefties, but the potential for a strong side platoon bat with power and solid defense would be a great outcome. I have definitely been high on him, but I think there is still good reason to pump the breaks on him as a starter next year or a top prospect based on a month of hot hitting until we see MLB pitchers adjust to him and him adjust back. Fun player to watch nonetheless.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Aug 25, 2023 13:33:58 GMT -5
I'd say he definitely should be ranked ahead of Valdez without much thought. Not much of an argument can be made at all for Valdez being a better offensive player, and his defense is way worse. Pretty sure Abreu is a tad younger as well Strong disagree on the bolded. Their season numbers were pretty close at the time Valdez went on the IL in July (OPS was .843 to .847), and that includes Valdez's time in the majors, where he took his lumps. In August, since Valdez came off the IL he's shown clear rust whereas this month was when Abreu went off. They both are way better against RHP than LHP. To be clear, I'm not saying I'd begrudge anyone having Abreu ahead of Valdez. Perfectly reasonable opinion to have there. I'm just pushing back on the idea that it's clear that one or the other is better offensively. One can play at least an average defense, the other is a defensive liability at his position. It seems to me like it’s obvious that Abreu is the better prospect and then should be ranked higher.
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