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4/10-4/13 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by backwardsk on Apr 13, 2023 19:27:10 GMT -5
It's a long season and I certainly try not to over react early, yet omg look at that lineup, look at the #3 and #4 hitter. Yeah. That’s what’s been bothering me. That lineup is U-G-L-Y. Thank heavens Bloom prioritized pitching and defense this season. Urrrrr… It's a good start with Devers. Maybe Yoshida and Casas will make it a better one in time. There's not anything beyond that, however. Verdugo is a nice piece, but he'll be probably gone by the trade deadline. The rest is a black hole.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 13, 2023 19:33:00 GMT -5
True but, my man, we have won 4 World Series during his ownership. The asset mgmt component was more related to how people questioned how deeply he was following the Sox. I’m in my 30s but old enough to remember what it was like before he owned the team. He’s the best owner they’ve ever had and one of the best things to happen to the Sox in their history. He took them from hearing chants of “19-18” to winning 4 titles. He also completely renovated Fenway and made the surrounding area much nicer and more modern. In 2004, I think the Sox/Fenway were his favorite toys in his entire toy chest. But now he has a whole bunch of other toys and maybe the Sox aren’t getting the same love from him as they once did. I’d love to get back to the early 2000’s playbook starting with bringing Theo back to lead the team. That’s when they were truly at their best. Well, I personally hate Fenway, but it is better. However, isn't it more likely he kept Fenway afloat instead of building a new stadium because now they don't pay taxes on it being over a 100 years old?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Apr 13, 2023 20:29:09 GMT -5
He’s the best owner they’ve ever had and one of the best things to happen to the Sox in their history. He took them from hearing chants of “19-18” to winning 4 titles. He also completely renovated Fenway and made the surrounding area much nicer and more modern. In 2004, I think the Sox/Fenway were his favorite toys in his entire toy chest. But now he has a whole bunch of other toys and maybe the Sox aren’t getting the same love from him as they once did. I’d love to get back to the early 2000’s playbook starting with bringing Theo back to lead the team. That’s when they were truly at their best. Well, I personally hate Fenway, but it is better. However, isn't it more likely he kept Fenway afloat instead of building a new stadium because now they don't pay taxes on it being over a 100 years old? The entirety of New England threw a shit fit when New Fenway was proposed, this has nothing to do with taxes. I remember the 3d model of it that was at FanFest99, fans HATED it
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 13, 2023 20:47:10 GMT -5
He’s the best owner they’ve ever had and one of the best things to happen to the Sox in their history. He took them from hearing chants of “19-18” to winning 4 titles. He also completely renovated Fenway and made the surrounding area much nicer and more modern. In 2004, I think the Sox/Fenway were his favorite toys in his entire toy chest. But now he has a whole bunch of other toys and maybe the Sox aren’t getting the same love from him as they once did. I’d love to get back to the early 2000’s playbook starting with bringing Theo back to lead the team. That’s when they were truly at their best. Well, I personally hate Fenway, but it is better. However, isn't it more likely he kept Fenway afloat instead of building a new stadium because now they don't pay taxes on it being over a 100 years old? I haven’t heard that one. Is that the case? I thought he said how much he loved Fenway when he bought the team and how he wanted to keep them there. I would *guess* that a new stadium would be more valuable for him and the franchise, though. That is usually the case.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 13, 2023 20:49:39 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Apr 13, 2023 20:59:45 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. Wow, I had to Google that to confirm and that blew me away
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Apr 13, 2023 21:02:23 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. I have a hard time seeing Theo or any quality candidate pursuing the job with Henry's history with prior head of baseball ops.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 13, 2023 21:04:37 GMT -5
Well, I personally hate Fenway, but it is better. However, isn't it more likely he kept Fenway afloat instead of building a new stadium because now they don't pay taxes on it being over a 100 years old? The entirety of New England threw a shit fit when New Fenway was proposed, this has nothing to do with taxes. I remember the 3d model of it that was at FanFest99, fans HATED it www.sbnation.com/2013/1/21/3901416/remembering-new-fenway-park
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 13, 2023 21:04:37 GMT -5
Well, I personally hate Fenway, but it is better. However, isn't it more likely he kept Fenway afloat instead of building a new stadium because now they don't pay taxes on it being over a 100 years old? The entirety of New England threw a shit fit when New Fenway was proposed, this has nothing to do with taxes. I remember the 3d model of it that was at FanFest99, fans HATED it www.sbnation.com/2013/1/21/3901416/remembering-new-fenway-park
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Apr 13, 2023 21:07:54 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. Because he left the Cubs in such a great spot lol. He's one rain delay from being viewed completely differently in Chicago
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 13, 2023 21:08:03 GMT -5
Only one more trip to Tampa in 2023….yay.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Apr 13, 2023 21:09:07 GMT -5
Absolute wild times. That's around the same time as the "Save the Patriots" rallys to keep them in Foxboro
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 13, 2023 21:43:47 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. Because he left the Cubs in such a great spot lol. He's one rain delay from being viewed completely differently in Chicago That's silly. The franchise hadn't won a World Series in 108 years or even a pennant in 71 years. You really think Cubs fans think of Theo as the guy who left them in bad shape or rather as the guy who built them into the only World champs they've seen in their entire lifetimes. Yeah, the Cubs weren't in great shape when he left but there is no ifs or regrets. They did win and that's irreversible. I'd take Theo over Bloom any day but my feeling is Theo got bored with being a GM and has no desire to get back into it. At the end of the day Theo has a legit shot to be enshrined in Cooperstown. Doubt that happens with Bloom.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 13, 2023 21:57:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I have no idea why people would hate that stadium and long for the current one. Crooked, tiny, comfortable seats with obstructed views everywhere. I'm not a bigger guy and the chairs are still annoyingly cramped. The nostalgia is nice, but that's really it. But maybe I'm the minority on that.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 13, 2023 22:03:38 GMT -5
Well, I personally hate Fenway, but it is better. However, isn't it more likely he kept Fenway afloat instead of building a new stadium because now they don't pay taxes on it being over a 100 years old? I haven’t heard that one. Is that the case? I thought he said how much he loved Fenway when he bought the team and how he wanted to keep them there. I would *guess* that a new stadium would be more valuable for him and the franchise, though. That is usually the case. www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2011/10/20/Facilities/Fenway.aspxSo, I guess I was somewhat wrong. It was put on the historical register and they got tax credits back for it, but they still pay property tax. But there was a benefit to keeping it.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 13, 2023 22:26:35 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. Because he left the Cubs in such a great spot lol. He's one rain delay from being viewed completely differently in Chicago That’s absurd. The Cubs were the biggest losers in all of sports when he arrived. He delivered a title in a short period after getting the gig and totally legitimized the franchise along the way. I’m not sure Theo would even want the Sox gig now(doubt it), but are you saying you prefer Bloom if you had a choice?
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 13, 2023 22:33:40 GMT -5
I think the bigger issue was with the land grab rather than the actual specifics of the new ballpark, right? A new ballpark with the same field dimensions probably WOULD be a major upgrade in every possible way. It just wouldn’t have the same nostalgia factor(i.e. “I sat in those box seats with my grandfather”). I understand that and it’s a hell of an obstacle to overcome. I wonder if there is a plan to EVER move on from Fenway. How much longer can it be viable?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Apr 13, 2023 23:26:31 GMT -5
Because he left the Cubs in such a great spot lol. He's one rain delay from being viewed completely differently in Chicago That’s absurd. The Cubs were the biggest losers in all of sports when he arrived. He delivered a title in a short period after getting the gig and totally legitimized the franchise along the way. I’m not sure Theo would even want the Sox gig now(doubt it), but are you saying you prefer Bloom if you had a choice? I'm saying that blank check Theo wasn't the savant people remember him as. The Type A and Type B draft comp was Theo's best friend, not to mention the uncapped drafts.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2023 6:48:18 GMT -5
That’s absurd. The Cubs were the biggest losers in all of sports when he arrived. He delivered a title in a short period after getting the gig and totally legitimized the franchise along the way. I’m not sure Theo would even want the Sox gig now(doubt it), but are you saying you prefer Bloom if you had a choice? I'm saying that blank check Theo wasn't the savant people remember him as. The Type A and Type B draft comp was Theo's best friend, not to mention the uncapped drafts. Yes, Theo exploited his advantages given to him as best as one could. How has Bloom done with his? You also didnt mention that Theo was able to integrate young players onto his Boston and Chicago rosters and watch them succeed in forming a core. That hasn't happened yet in Bloom's regime. Something developmentally makes me wonder why Sox prospects are struggling as mightily in the majors so much. Why have Duran and Dalbec failed? Why are all the pitchers, even Whitlock, are unable to develop into a valuable starting pitcher rather than just a hybrid type, a back end starter whose better in the pen? Something developmentally is lacking somehow. Theo had his busts like Craig Hansen but his hit rate on youngsters actually developing into core members was a lot higher. I think Theo would adapt to the newer rules as well as anybody but the thing with him is that after awhile he gets stale in his job. I think in Boston he got tired of clashing with Lucchino and in Chicago I think he started looking for different challenges. He'd already given the Cubs the impossible and put them in the post season some other times. You can see he's still shaping the game. A lot of these new changes are his changes. The Theo vs Bloom thing is interesting but I think ultimately meaningless as I think his GM days are behind him. I wouldnt be surprised if he became a part owner or even baseball commissioner down the road, one who actually loves baseball, imagine that.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 14, 2023 7:10:19 GMT -5
That’s absurd. The Cubs were the biggest losers in all of sports when he arrived. He delivered a title in a short period after getting the gig and totally legitimized the franchise along the way. I’m not sure Theo would even want the Sox gig now(doubt it), but are you saying you prefer Bloom if you had a choice? I'm saying that blank check Theo wasn't the savant people remember him as. The Type A and Type B draft comp was Theo's best friend, not to mention the uncapped drafts. Off-topic, wasn't Tony Graffanino the reason why they did away with the type B?
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Post by pappyman99 on Apr 14, 2023 7:27:06 GMT -5
Alright I can see that, but “do well” for an asset can mean things besides win no matter what, even if it does it doesn’t mean you are good at optimizing for that goal, and I don’t agree that being a hedge fund manager means you will be a good baseball owner. It's actually interesting how all of his clubs are struggling now. Penguins and Liverpool didn't exactly go well recently. *said Pirates by accident. Ehh penguins just finally got old after a 15+ year run. Henry clearly cares about the Sox the most considering he heads Fenway Sports group. He will own the Sox until he passes, all the other teams he will basically treat how a privat me equity firm buys and then resells companies
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Post by Guidas on Apr 14, 2023 8:20:39 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. Down for this anytime, anywhere - but what's in it for him? Right now he's one step away from being the next commissioner of baseball.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 14, 2023 8:47:36 GMT -5
Idk. The man has been unburying us out of the money hole Boston should never have been in the first place. All I'm saying is after this year 80-1oo mill in cap room and our prospects closer. That is what i think the goal is. Have 60-100 mill available after every season and have a team full of home grown players and use the money for fill ins and if you're a contender "like the rays" make the splashes needed to win it all. Use the money to hopefully pay your home grown players hoping to get a discount. "like the rays". The most important part is drafting and developing. How are you getting to $60M to $100M in spending room after this season? I have KKH coming off the books for $10M, Duvall for $7M, Paxton for $4M, and Mondesi for $3M. Then you have the Turner and Kluber options and a few low-salaried guys. Even without Turner and Kluber you'd be below $50M and not in the same universe as $100M. Does it even matter? Specifically: 1) MLB owners flush with cash (much of which they withheld knowledge of during the labor negotiations), enacted a market re-set this past off-season. The Sox did not adjust, save keeping Devers off the market. In retrospect, the Yoshida deal is mid-level at best, and he's not an established star or even proven as an average MLB player (although I hope he will be eventually and that the Sox did actually identify something 29 other teams missed). 2) Other than Ohtani, the 2023 Free Agent Class is meh, especially when compared to the 2021 and 2022 classes, and especially in positions of need. In retrospect, the Sox Ownership and Front Office may have blown it by not going all in during the 2021 season on one or more elite players in positions of need. And this would be on them and their planning/strategy because, historically, spending (pretty good sample) and luxury tax levels (small sample, but the players would never go for a reduction or stagnation) always go up after a new CBA. In retrospect, the then high-end deals given out in 2021 are now well below market value. Hell, by the next CBA, QOs may be up to $25M, which, in the players' eyes, becomes the floor for the annual salary of better-than-average (but not elite) free agent. Anyway, they got swept but aren't as bad as they seemed. At least, not yet. The Rays, unfortunately, are playing out of their minds. Now, if the Jays sweep the Rays, there may be some serious teeth-gnashing, renting of garments and blaspheming of the Baseball Gods.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 14, 2023 9:15:58 GMT -5
That’s absurd. The Cubs were the biggest losers in all of sports when he arrived. He delivered a title in a short period after getting the gig and totally legitimized the franchise along the way. I’m not sure Theo would even want the Sox gig now(doubt it), but are you saying you prefer Bloom if you had a choice? I'm saying that blank check Theo wasn't the savant people remember him as. The Type A and Type B draft comp was Theo's best friend, not to mention the uncapped drafts. You might be right. However, I’m remembering the guy that provided a consistent pipeline of MLB talent through the draft: Papelbon, Ellsbury, Masterson, Pedroia, Rizzo, Lowrie, Bard, Reddick etc…. When you develop that kind of cost-controlled talent to put around the higher-end free agents, you have a sustainable winner. Now? We spend 3-4 years waiting for the next Michael Chavis to make their way through the system only to realize that they stink when they arrive.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 14, 2023 9:18:20 GMT -5
Seriously, though, can we get Theo back? He’s the guy to fix this mess and he’s STILL not even 50 years old. Down for this anytime, anywhere - but what's in it for him? Right now he's one step away from being the next commissioner of baseball. You are right. Short of granting him an ownership stake in the team, I can’t imagine he would be interested. But that MIGHT just get his attention if Henry came calling.
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