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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 10, 2023 13:05:31 GMT -5
Let's not go down this road of why we like CA & why we don't. Point, counterpoint, rebuttal - now done.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 10, 2023 14:18:05 GMT -5
Well done. Got it
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 10, 2023 17:20:00 GMT -5
By time zone, that's: Eastern: 28 Central: 12 Pacific: 17 I assume the point you are trying to make is that players are more willing to go east, but there's just more teams:
Teams by time zone: Eastern: 16 Central: 8 Pacific: 7 So 1.75 players per team in the East, 1.5 in the Central, and 2.4 in the Pacific. The main takeaway is that none of us really know what he's thinking. And the real answer about time zones is inconclusive. The data above would suggest a slight west coast bias, but the difference isn't huge. So I wouldn't be out there saying time zones don't matter, but I also would say they are only a part of the decision - location, playing opportunity, winning, and dollars all likely contribute. The issue was about time zones and ease of talking to family etc. He listed the players and it was decisively more in the ETZ than PTZ, the amount of teams on the East Coast verse West Coast is NOt a part of the equation as the players were all in effect free agents. Your inserting additional criteria that does not below in the debate. I agree with the second part of your response. Many thing we read from writers is contrived anyway as they don't know what to say and or make up garbage for filler. He's a free agent, it's up to him and the coast will have less of an influence than the actual teams and his comfort level with those teams.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2023 7:22:10 GMT -5
So was Ohtani's official AAV announced?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 11, 2023 17:45:23 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 11, 2023 17:48:55 GMT -5
Says the AAV is $46 million.
I wonder if the Dodgers are taking advantage of MLB's way of calculating this not being finance whiz level sharp. They're deferring $680,000,000!
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 11, 2023 17:52:51 GMT -5
That's pretty absurd. They're only paying him in actual cash $20M over the next 10 years. He's losing way more than $240M dollars in expected value (versus the nominal contract, not what he otherwise might have gotten).
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 11, 2023 17:54:19 GMT -5
I would not be shocked to see MLB step in
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 11, 2023 17:55:35 GMT -5
The article claims Ohtani gets $50 million a year in endorsement money. With the player already having that cash flow, plus interest rates much higher than they were when the CBA was signed, it's a perfect storm for a massive exploit.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 11, 2023 17:55:51 GMT -5
Feel like there should be a limit to have much you can a reduce your AAV by deferrals and that the limit should be FAR smaller than $24M. That’s BS
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 11, 2023 17:58:19 GMT -5
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Post by melvinhoggs on Dec 11, 2023 17:59:02 GMT -5
Haha this is pretty much exactly what I posted about earlier and what wcsoxfan and I were discussing in the free agent thread without too many people batting an eye – not saying that's a knock on anyone, just that seeing the raw numbers now makes it clearer how far you can bend the rules (while still not technically breaking them).
Edit: time for the Red Sox to give Yamamoto a massively frondloaded 30-year contact where the AAV is like $18M! Get in there before the loopholes are closed.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Dec 11, 2023 18:07:17 GMT -5
Mlb and mlbpa will allow this but blocked Arod to the Red Sox
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on Dec 11, 2023 18:07:34 GMT -5
I fully expect the MLB to step in and do something, kind of like when San Diego( or was it San Fran) offered Judge 14 years to spread out the AAV.
If not the Sox should offer Yamamoto the sun with the heat being deffered til 2040
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Post by geostorm on Dec 11, 2023 18:15:00 GMT -5
Mlb and mlbpa will allow this but blocked Arod to the Red Sox Didn't ARod already have a long term deal in place, that the Sox & he had agreed to re-negotiate "down"?...which is what MLBPA was against?
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Post by melvinhoggs on Dec 11, 2023 18:15:12 GMT -5
I fully expect the MLB to step in and do something, kind of like when San Diego( or was it San Fran) offered Judge 14 years to spread out the AAV. If not the Sox should offer Yamamoto the sun with the heat being deffered til 2040 They won't. Jeff Passan just addressed it in a tweet (with a reference to the specific rule).
There is explicitly no limit on deferred compensation.
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Post by ephus on Dec 11, 2023 18:15:19 GMT -5
This will create a serious optics issue for MLB, I don't see any way they do not step in.
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Post by chaimtime on Dec 11, 2023 18:17:50 GMT -5
The very first section of the deferred compensation section of the CBA is “There shall be no limitations on either the amount of deferred compensation or the percentage of total compensation attributable to deferred compensation for which a Uniform Player’s Contract may provide.” Not sure how the league would be able to step in given that it explicitly says this is fine. I’d imagine that language gets tweaked in the next CBA, though.
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Post by Addam603 on Dec 11, 2023 18:19:51 GMT -5
The fact that the CBA seems to explicitly allow this is one thing, but just from a fair play sense, I’m not a fan. The next CBA is definitely going to address this and it will get ugly.
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Post by 75tillnow on Dec 11, 2023 18:21:10 GMT -5
I doubt that Yama is going to buy into a deferred contract with Boston when LA can do it with him as well. And don't forget that Roki Sasaki, who idolizes Shohei, will be a Dodger when he comes over as well since he can pick the team and the contract is minimal by rule. I bet Yoshida will want to join his pals in LA and a reasonable trade can be spun to make it happen. For all those reasons the commissioner needs to step in now.
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Post by foreverred9 on Dec 11, 2023 18:26:11 GMT -5
I see a lot of comments on twitter and here that this isn't legal, is a loophole, etc. What precisely is wrong with this?
The issue is that it's being called a 10-700 contract rather than a 10-460 contract in the media. His true value compared to Judge is 46M vs. 40M AAV. Much like Mookie is a 25M-per-year contract rather than 30M.
Just think of it this way, when Bobby Bonilla day ends it will be replaced with Shohei Ohtani day. I'm really curious if this gets him out of paying CA state income tax on the 680M (i.e. he'll be living in Japan when he makes that income).
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 11, 2023 18:27:43 GMT -5
The fact that the CBA seems to explicitly allow this is one thing, but just from a fair play sense, I’m not a fan. The next CBA is definitely going to address this and it will get ugly. It feels fair for deferred money to lower AAV, but only if the calculation for discounts on AAV is intended to exactly follow inflation. Currently the percentage they use just seems too high, and it makes the AAV discount even steeper than it should be given the value of the money involved. That's the bit I don't like, and I agree, I think it definitely changes in the next CBA. I can't imagine small market teams in particular are thrilled about this.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Dec 11, 2023 18:27:52 GMT -5
If the Dodgers can pay a guy $68 million every year for a decade to not step on the field once for him, I don't want to hear anyone complain about contract length ever again. These teams can just cut these guys if it ever becomes a problem.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 11, 2023 18:29:44 GMT -5
I'm really curious if this gets him out of paying CA state income tax on the 680M (i.e. he'll be living in Japan when he makes that income). Ohh, that might be the genesis of this. All the reports are sure to mention that this was Ohtani's idea.
The structure screams out that somebody thinks they're exploiting something.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 11, 2023 18:31:16 GMT -5
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