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Post by blizzards39 on Apr 9, 2024 11:54:13 GMT -5
Can you say Uwasawa
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 9, 2024 11:54:24 GMT -5
I will say this about Whitlock and Houck. If people are dead set on letting them continue to get their cracks in the rotation then I'd rather they just start in the rotation rather than jerk them around. I've soured on them both in the rotation, but Houck more than Whitlock and so far this year Houck has been absolutely electric. I'm assuming he was the odd guy out before Giolito went down too. That's not to say adding more depth wouldn't be possible. The bolded is an aspect of this some people conveniently ignore when they act like the Red Sox had a ton of room to add more starters. This isn't a video game where you can just move guys around with no side effects, especially with pitching there is specific preparation that goes into whatever your role is going to be. It would obviously be nice to have another starter right now, even if it was one in the Clevinger tier, but those acting as if it's completely black and white that they could have signed another one if they simply wanted to are being pretty ignorant of some possible contextual factors. They very well may have tried, but I also wouldn't blame someone in that Clevinger tier if they felt they could secure a more defined role elsewhere (as Clevinger has seemingly done with a terrible White Sox rotation). The FO was in a tough spot. From the reporting it seems as if they were open to adding another guy, but weren't going to over-exert themselves to do so. It's easy to say in hindsight this didn't work out for them, but I think anyone arguing that it was unequivocally the right or wrong move is failing to argue in good faith (surprise, surprise...). While I do agree, in the interest of fairness, we do have to remember that the Red Sox did designate one of those two as a swing man when they signed Giolito. I just think if you had faith of either of them being a solid starter then you don't mess with their approach and how they prepare for a game where one month they're throwing every other day and the next they're being stretched out. They're certainly creatures of habit which makes evaluating them that much more difficult.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 9, 2024 11:57:00 GMT -5
They could have had another starter or two and began with Houck and Whitlock in the pen and a couple of the pen guys in AAA so when injuries inevitably hit, the oh no you must start Houck and Whitlock crowd would still be appeased as they still wind up in the rotation but now with less quality depth behind them instead. Too bad the Sox had no money for depth. Oh wait. At some point you have to stop being such a front office sycophant. They do a lot of things very well (Breslow traded very well this offseason) but sometimes they dont which you can never seem to acknowledge. You just go into defense attorney mode. Im not being a damn sycophant... The amount of pitching injuries league wide should be sounding alarm bells at MLB HQ... You have pitchers who were the traditional/reliable rubber arm/workhorse now getting season-ending injures... I cannot recall the last time there were this many injures and its only APRIL.. that's unmanageable for any team regardless of the amount of pitching depth one has You know the point I and others were making. The injuries are ridiculous at this point but its not that surprising given the way the game has evolved. Arms aren't meant to consistently throw 100. Max velocity, max spin, max effort because of the overwhelming threat of the too easy to hit homerun creating this mess where pitchers have to throw as hard as they can to avoid contact. Until that changes what we're seeing isnt going to get better. But hey, chicks dig the long ball, fans come out, and it puts money in everybody's pocket. Don't think it's good for the health of the game though.
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 9, 2024 12:02:25 GMT -5
Bracing myself for the media campaign to scapegoat everyone in the org associated with Driveline to come I mean they did hire THE main guy from Driveline and Giolito was working to increase his velocity, and now they got all their pitchers throwing max effort sliders over half the time. At the very least, it's not great optics that two of their (usually healthy) starters have already gone down with arm issues.
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Post by itinerantherb on Apr 9, 2024 12:04:22 GMT -5
He's the new Criswell--as in, geeze, if they don't get some more SP depth, Criswell Uwasawa is going to be in the rotation by May.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 9, 2024 12:05:49 GMT -5
Bracing myself for the media campaign to scapegoat everyone in the org associated with Driveline to come I mean they did hire the main guy from Driveline and Giolito was working to increase his velocity, and now they got all their pitchers throwing max effort sliders over half the time. At the very least, it's not great optics that two of their (usually healthy) starters have already gone down with arm issues. There really isn’t a usually healthy starter though. Nor has there been. Look at the TJ numbers by year (peaking in 2014).
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Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 9, 2024 12:08:04 GMT -5
Breslows says he doesn't think Pivetta will be out for much longer than the IL stint, if that. Called the strain "mild".
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 9, 2024 12:11:28 GMT -5
Perhaps this deserves its own thread, but is Tyler Glasnow correct in blaming the banning of sticky stuff? His thought was that after the ban, pitchers needed to grip the ball tighter.
Verlander had some insightful thoughts on it just being a case where pitching mechanics have been changing and guys are trying to max out.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 9, 2024 12:14:18 GMT -5
If they don't bullpen on Wednesday (which they almost certainly will), they almost have to go with Fitts don't they? Both Criswell and Alexander just pitched and I think that would be my 1 and 2 first in.
Rich Hill seems like an obvious add come June. Otherwise, I don't see the point of bemoaning not signing pitcher A, B or C who are next in line for a lengthy IL stint. I'm not going to re-hash all of the same arguments - but will leave with this; depth means you were advocating putting our best starting pitcher thus far in the bullpen just so you could 'say we had depth'. We're not 7-3 with Houck taking Winckowski or Anderson's bullpen spot.
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 9, 2024 12:18:28 GMT -5
I mean they did hire the main guy from Driveline and Giolito was working to increase his velocity, and now they got all their pitchers throwing max effort sliders over half the time. At the very least, it's not great optics that two of their (usually healthy) starters have already gone down with arm issues. There really isn’t a usually healthy starter though. Nor has there been. Look at the TJ numbers by year (peaking in 2014). Definitely true but some combination of things is making it worse in recent years. No one can know for sure, but I would guess the new team philosophy of spamming max effort breaking balls the entire game is not going to be optimal for our pitchers' health.
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Post by trotman on Apr 9, 2024 12:21:36 GMT -5
If they don't bullpen on Wednesday (which they almost certainly will), they almost have to go with Fitts don't they? Both Criswell and Alexander just pitched and I think that would be my 1 and 2 first in. Rich Hill seems like an obvious add come June. Otherwise, I don't see the point of bemoaning not signing pitcher A, B or C who are next in line for a lengthy IL stint. I'm not going to re-hash all of the same arguments - but will leave with this; depth means you were advocating putting our best starting pitcher thus far in the bullpen just so you could 'say we had depth'. We're not 7-3 with Houck taking Winckowski or Anderson's bullpen spot. Isn't it just on 4/13? The Sox just had an off day so Bello on 6 days rest and everyone else moves up a spot. I saw on Twitter that Criswell is lining up for the 4/13 start.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 9, 2024 12:22:12 GMT -5
There really isn’t a usually healthy starter though. Nor has there been. Look at the TJ numbers by year (peaking in 2014). Definitely true but some combination of things is making it worse in recent years. No one can know for sure, but I would guess the new team philosophy of spamming max effort breaking balls the entire game is not going to be optimal for our pitchers' health. We've been told over and over how much better the overall talent level is now compared to 30 years ago or 60 or 100. I don't know if that is true - but the reality is 30 years ago, guys could be effective as pitchers without 100% max effort and without all the spin, etc etc etc. There's only one thing that stops this - they have to deaden the ball and reduce offense. Period. Nothing else solves this issue - nothing because if you can't spin it then you have to throw harder and harder to make up for it - and in either way, you're only going to increase the damage done to arms. EDIT: Teams will also really have to prioritize defense too. No more Schwarbers moonlighting in LF.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 9, 2024 12:22:51 GMT -5
If they don't bullpen on Wednesday (which they almost certainly will), they almost have to go with Fitts don't they? Both Criswell and Alexander just pitched and I think that would be my 1 and 2 first in. Rich Hill seems like an obvious add come June. Otherwise, I don't see the point of bemoaning not signing pitcher A, B or C who are next in line for a lengthy IL stint. I'm not going to re-hash all of the same arguments - but will leave with this; depth means you were advocating putting our best starting pitcher thus far in the bullpen just so you could 'say we had depth'. We're not 7-3 with Houck taking Winckowski or Anderson's bullpen spot. Isn't it just on 4/13? The Sox just had an off day so Bello on 6 days rest and everyone else moves up a spot. I saw on Twitter that Criswell is lining up for the 4/13 start. Yeah, you're right - so definitely could call up Criswell.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Apr 9, 2024 12:27:09 GMT -5
Breslows says he doesn't think Pivetta will be out for much longer than the IL stint, if that. Called the strain "mild". This was the most recent "mild flexor strain" from a Red Sox pitcher I could find that didn't involve TJ (I'm sure I missed one): On the plus side, Pomeranz did end up staying healthy that year (he came back two months later). On the negative, the most stressful moment of the 2018 World Series was waiting for Eovaldi to get pulled in extra innings and Pomeranz to come in because he was so hellaciously bad. www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/red-sox-drew-pomeranz-mild-flexor-strain/
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 9, 2024 12:57:34 GMT -5
That acquisition just become a lot more important
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Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 9, 2024 13:07:56 GMT -5
Criswell, Fitts, Uwasawa - get ready
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Apr 9, 2024 13:13:03 GMT -5
Forearm strain is a 4-letter word.
I forgot that both Walter and Murphy were already injured. Not that they were great options, but was hoping they could eat a few innings before Dick Fitts had to be pulled in.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 9, 2024 13:14:34 GMT -5
If this is a cautious short IL stint then this is no big deal at all. “Flexor strain” could mean anything from typical damage most pitchers keep playing with to catastrophic injury.
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Post by iamnotluistiant on Apr 9, 2024 13:16:45 GMT -5
Criswell, Fitts, Uwasawa - get ready Someone had to go there but that group is going to give us some lemons but some good outings too--it's going to be some fitts and starts.
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Post by itscarp on Apr 9, 2024 14:48:19 GMT -5
I pitched 40 years ago. A slider or curveball are basic pitches. It's the separation of fingers that stress the elbow. Not spin rates. Injuries happen. The split finger adds more stress to the elbow.
Time to learn about young pitchers.
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on Apr 9, 2024 16:46:35 GMT -5
Yeah I think people read "flexor" strain and right away think Tommy John. I caught the middle of a short interview on the radio with (I think it was Breslow, guy sounded smart) and they said the injury is best case scenario, the team just wanted Pivetta to miss a start/ get a "week or so off" to give him extra rest. Also said if it was the middle of a pennant race, they'd approach this differently, but team is being overly cautious because of it still being early and Pivetta's importance.
Sounds to me like it was just regular wear and tear, soreness that didn't respond it ice or whatever
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 9, 2024 17:04:03 GMT -5
as long as it is no more than 15 days, no reason to whine / become apocalyptic. MFY lost Cole already. This is gonna happen, and I don't think the answer is too stack your roster with pitchers to mitigate injuries. Not sure that is even possible, without sacrificing other team needs. Remember, other teams need pitchers too.
Also, doubt Criswell (admittedly, know nothing about the guy) at your own peril !!
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Post by bentossaurus on Apr 10, 2024 0:39:38 GMT -5
Definitely true but some combination of things is making it worse in recent years. No one can know for sure, but I would guess the new team philosophy of spamming max effort breaking balls the entire game is not going to be optimal for our pitchers' health. We've been told over and over how much better the overall talent level is now compared to 30 years ago or 60 or 100. I don't know if that is true - but the reality is 30 years ago, guys could be effective as pitchers without 100% max effort and without all the spin, etc etc etc. There's only one thing that stops this - they have to deaden the ball and reduce offense. Period. Nothing else solves this issue - nothing because if you can't spin it then you have to throw harder and harder to make up for it - and in either way, you're only going to increase the damage done to arms. EDIT: Teams will also really have to prioritize defense too. No more Schwarbers moonlighting in LF. You can deaden the ball all you want. As long as more RPM and more MPH bring better results, that's what pitchers are gonna go for, because that's what's gonna get them paid. Want serious change? Make contracts non-guaranteed. If you go on the 60-day DL you get paid the league minimum.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 10, 2024 7:39:33 GMT -5
Want serious change? Make contracts non-guaranteed. If you go on the 60-day DL you get paid the league minimum. Sounds like a good way to punish players for getting hurt while incentivizing teams to start overpushing guys they'd prefer to just not pay anymore.
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Post by bentossaurus on Apr 10, 2024 9:01:08 GMT -5
Want serious change? Make contracts non-guaranteed. If you go on the 60-day DL you get paid the league minimum. Sounds like a good way to punish players for getting hurt while incentivizing teams to start overpushing guys they'd prefer to just not pay anymore. If we’re facing a risk/reward situation in many cases, and there’s no incentive to lean conservative, we can’t be surprised pitchers go all out on maximising risk. There’s no downside to it. To your second point I agree, and there would have to be a grievance policy to it, also to prevent teams of making up ghost DL stints.
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