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Nick Pivetta to IL with a right elbow flexor strain
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Post by 0ap0 on Apr 10, 2024 9:23:27 GMT -5
Or you could double the salary for players on the DL and really incentivize teams to take care of and use them appropriately.
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Post by 0ap0 on Apr 10, 2024 9:25:47 GMT -5
I say deaden the ball, lighten the ball, and make the bats lighter.
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Post by bentossaurus on Apr 10, 2024 9:55:39 GMT -5
I say deaden the ball, lighten the ball, and make the bats lighter. I can see lightening the ball working, from a pure physics and biomechanics point of view. Not sure how that would impact the overall offensive/run prevention numbers though.
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hank
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Post by hank on Apr 10, 2024 9:58:17 GMT -5
I say deaden the ball, lighten the ball, and make the bats lighter. I can see lightening the ball working, from a pure physics and biomechanics point of view. Not sure how that would impact the overall offensive/run prevention numbers though. It worked great when I was 10 playing whiffle ball
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 10, 2024 10:07:21 GMT -5
There’s no downside to it. The downside is that players don't get paid millions of dollars that is due to them. The downside is that players hide their injuries because they'll stop being paid if they'll report them. The downside is that teams care less, rather than more, about protecting their players, because they can cut their losses on an injured guy. The downside is that a player who has to choose between being a pitcher and a shortstop, between a pitcher and a basketball player, between a pitcher and a carpenter is going to NOT choose the one that is likely to lead to them not getting paid. The downside is that not paying guys who have worked their ass off to become the best in the world are suddenly blamed for working so hard. The downside is that owners are actually INCENTIVIZED to sign higher-risk players because they'll be easier to just not pay when they're hurt. The downside is that richer teams get even richer, because they can afford those funny-money contracts because they don't have to worry about the risk. The downside is that a player who takes a line drive off the knee is suddenly out of a paycheck, which is, to me, a really sh*tty suggestion. But yeah, other than that, no downside.
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Post by bentossaurus on Apr 10, 2024 10:41:37 GMT -5
There’s no downside to it. The downside is that players don't get paid millions of dollars that is due to them. The downside is that players hide their injuries because they'll stop being paid if they'll report them. The downside is that teams care less, rather than more, about protecting their players, because they can cut their losses on an injured guy. The downside is that a player who has to choose between being a pitcher and a shortstop, between a pitcher and a basketball player, between a pitcher and a carpenter is going to NOT choose the one that is likely to lead to them not getting paid. The downside is that not paying guys who have worked their ass off to become the best in the world are suddenly blamed for working so hard. The downside is that owners are actually INCENTIVIZED to sign higher-risk players because they'll be easier to just not pay when they're hurt. The downside is that richer teams get even richer, because they can afford those funny-money contracts because they don't have to worry about the risk. The downside is that a player who takes a line drive off the knee is suddenly out of a paycheck, which is, to me, a really sh*tty suggestion. But yeah, other than that, no downside. Don’t know if you’re intentionally misconstruing my argument or if I wasn’t clear enough, in which case I apologise as English is not my first language, but I’ll rephrase it: There is currently no downside for a player to not err on the side of risk (maximise RPM and MPH, even if it increases their chances of injury), as they still collect the reward in most cases.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 10, 2024 11:21:14 GMT -5
My response may have been harsh - I tend to react harshly at the idea of penalizing players (or any labor!) by not paying their contracts. I think it's unfair to players and I think it creates perverse incentives for management.
In any case, the downside for the player is that they don't make it to the majors, or they don't last long, or they don't succeed if they do. The players in the minor leagues who are separating themselves or breaking out are the ones whose metrics test well. Sure, there are going to be the guys whose performance and athleticism and everything is just so standout that they're going to be top prospects. But when we're getting into that next tier, the reason guys like Christopher Troye and Alex Hoppe are exciting is because of their measurable stuff. Are those things going to end up leading to injuries? We don't know, but the alternative for them dialing back is that they don't make it to the majors. Should their continued hard work lead to them losing their contracts? I certainly don't think so.
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Post by bentossaurus on Apr 10, 2024 11:46:54 GMT -5
My response may have been harsh - I tend to react harshly at the idea of penalizing players (or any labor!) by not paying their contracts. I think it's unfair to players and I think it creates perverse incentives for management. In any case, the downside for the player is that they don't make it to the majors, or they don't last long, or they don't succeed if they do. The players in the minor leagues who are separating themselves or breaking out are the ones whose metrics test well. Sure, there are going to be the guys whose performance and athleticism and everything is just so standout that they're going to be top prospects. But when we're getting into that next tier, the reason guys like Christopher Troye and Alex Hoppe are exciting is because of their measurable stuff. Are those things going to end up leading to injuries? We don't know, but the alternative for them dialing back is that they don't make it to the majors. Should their continued hard work lead to them losing their contracts? I certainly don't think so. That's OK, I never said my suggestion doesn't have downsides. What I think is that unless we're happy with the current risk/reward equilibrium, the balance needs to be in some way tilted in the other direction. To your other points, the current landscape seems to be that players look at who gets paid and are placing all their chips on that bet. As far as they're concerned "the punishment is not worth the crime or the likelihood of getting caught". So how do we disincentivise it? Do we care at all, or are we happy with it? In a way this reminds me of the old PED argument, sans the ethics part. - Some guys are doing it and cashing in, so why not me? If I do it, I'll separate from the other guys, more likely to get promoted/make it to the Majors, and a nice contract waiting for me in free agency. I'll have to work hard to make it worthwhile, but fingers crossed I don't get caught won't get an elbow injury in the way.
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Smittyw
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Post by Smittyw on Apr 10, 2024 12:22:19 GMT -5
There is currently no downside for a player to not err on the side of risk (maximise RPM and MPH, even if it increases their chances of injury), as they still collect the reward in most cases. This entire take is kind of weird (it sounds like you're blaming the pitchers for their own injuries and likening recent innovations to steroid use?), but all I'm going to say is that not all of the guys getting hurt are on guaranteed mega-contracts. Someone a year away from a big free agent payday like Shane Bieber (or arguably Pivetta himself), to say nothing of a pre-arb guy like Eury Perez, absolutely had every financial incentive to stay healthy.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 10, 2024 12:33:27 GMT -5
Let Pitchers use HGH 2024
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Post by bentossaurus on Apr 10, 2024 12:49:17 GMT -5
There is currently no downside for a player to not err on the side of risk (maximise RPM and MPH, even if it increases their chances of injury), as they still collect the reward in most cases. This entire take is kind of weird (it sounds like you're blaming the pitchers for their own injuries and likening recent innovations to steroid use?), but all I'm going to say is that not all of the guys getting hurt are on guaranteed mega-contracts. Someone a year away from a big free agent payday like Shane Bieber (or arguably Pivetta himself), to say nothing of a pre-arb guy like Eury Perez, absolutely had every financial incentive to stay healthy. I'm saying that pitchers are engaging in behaviours that increase their injury risk, and playing the odds. It's precisely the guys without the contract that would try and push the boundaries the most, in order to achieve that contract. Also, I'm likening the argument for maximising risk, not the actual whole designer pitch thing. If you disagree that throwing harder and heavier breaking ball usage increases injury risk that's fine. Reasonable minds can disagree.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 18, 2024 8:25:45 GMT -5
Breslows says he doesn't think Pivetta will be out for much longer than the IL stint, if that. Called the strain "mild". The IL stint is retroactive to April 6th, so with no news yet about Pivetta's return it seems that progress here has been slower than the team anticipated...
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Apr 18, 2024 8:35:59 GMT -5
Breslows says he doesn't think Pivetta will be out for much longer than the IL stint, if that. Called the strain "mild". The IL stint is retroactive to April 6th, so with no news yet about Pivetta's return it seems that progress here has been slower than the team anticipated... “Flexor strain” always sounds like the crack of doom to me. Obviously I hope I’m wrong, especially because Pivetta is on the cusp of a big payday.
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 18, 2024 8:38:14 GMT -5
I said this on the gameday thread on Pivetta but I am now rather worried on his elbow. They originally said they didn't think he'd be out much longer than the IL stint which the earliest he could be activated would be the 21st. He's been playing catch apparently but that's the extent of his ramping back up as far as I can tell. That doesn't sound to me like a guy who will be pitching next week.
At the very best at this point I would think he would need a rehab start or two and will need at least another week or two before he's back in Boston, at the worst well I think we all know that is. It is pretty common for a prognosis on an elbow strain to say oh yea he'll just need a short IL stint. Then two weeks later after trying to ramp back up nothing has improved and they take another look and lo and behold he's out for the next year with TJ.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 18, 2024 9:35:55 GMT -5
I thought it was odd given the type of injury that was listed that he would be back after the minimum 15 days. The average for this injury is 66 days. I still suspect he'll hit the under, but I didn't think it would be 1-2 turns missed.
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Post by trotman on Apr 18, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -5
I thought it was odd given the type of injury that was listed that he would be back after the minimum 15 days. The average for this injury is 66 days. I still suspect he'll hit the under, but I didn't think it would be 1-2 turns missed. Jen McCaffrey this morning said he will throw at 120ft today and tomorrow with a bullpen on Saturday. Not sure the timeline from there but it sounds like it will definitely be the under.
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Post by pappyman99 on Apr 18, 2024 10:01:45 GMT -5
Houck and Crawford dominating so far is why we didn’t signed random guys like Lorenzon, Clevinger, etc
Let’s be realistic they would have in fact taken those guys spots and starting them in the bullpen then rushing them into the rotation after injuries just isn’t a recipe for success
Hopefully Pivetta is back soon, Whitlock isn’t back by May 1st and Criswell proves to be decent. Once we get to July, Fitts is probably a realistic depth option
I’m wayyyyy more worried about the offense
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 18, 2024 10:12:41 GMT -5
Per Roto:
Pivetta (elbow) is scheduled to throw a bullpen session Saturday, Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic reports.
Pivetta will play catch from 120 feet Thursday, and if all goes well, he'll take a big step forward in his recovery from a right elbow strain by getting back on the mound this weekend. The right-hander will likely need to complete multiple bullpen sessions before he's cleared to face hitters in live batting practice. After that, Pivetta will likely require a brief minor-league rehab assignment to get stretched back out, so he could be hard pressed to make it back from the injured list in the minimum 15 days. A return in the first or second week of May could be realistic, provided Pivetta avoids any setbacks while ramping back up.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Apr 18, 2024 10:26:40 GMT -5
Houck and Crawford dominating so far is why we didn’t signed random guys like Lorenzon, Clevinger, etc Let’s be realistic they would have in fact taken those guys spots and starting them in the bullpen then rushing them into the rotation after injuries just isn’t a recipe for success Hopefully Pivetta is back soon, Whitlock isn’t back by May 1st and Criswell proves to be decent. Once we get to July, Fitts is probably a realistic depth option I’m wayyyyy more worried about the offense The fact that it is still April and they have lost 1 starter for the year and 2 others are on the DL does not strengthen your argument. I agree that the offense and fielding have been bigger problems so far, but 3 good weeks of starting pitching does not mean the starters will be good all year.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 2, 2024 20:18:04 GMT -5
The velocity and the quality of stuff were there , so it’s very encouraging regardless of the results. Also, it’s interesting that he “hated” the ABS and “hopes it never comes to baseball” hehe
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Post by itinerantherb on May 2, 2024 23:01:14 GMT -5
I'm glad Nick's feeling good but that has kind of a hostage video vibe.
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